Your gripes with CoC II
- Thread starter Narmlet
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I mean by that logic why have any drama and dark shit like like Winterwolf quest or any lore at all since it's a porn game.
Some ppl are into heavy sexualization sure but not every ppl are super into rapey vibe and turbo horniness (especially so if that's their entire character).
While yes since it's a porn game and I'm into the sexualization to an extent and hell, I'm into being ultra subby slutty too in game (like mino stuff in khorminos). And at least slutty/horny stuff with like Dryads, centaur caravans, etc stuff are consensual slutty stuff and not non-consensual (which again some are into that that's fine but not for me and some ppl). Totally coincidental in what they're packing in the examples I gave. Probably.
Also, I find npcs with more substance like with background story and personality way more likable than one-dimensional fucky wucky characters. Even more if they have great romantic interaction (like alypia's characters). I also enjoy this game much more than any other porn game just because of the story, lore and well-written characters.
Ho boy, we're having this conversation again huh?
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
I honestly wish we wouldn't just because at this point I don't have anything new left to say and there's no point of resolution. Though I will say I wasn't expecting someone to literally argue with a character's creator about how their character is perceived.
I never noticed he does that, I guess I chalked it up to him still being a horny cultist who needs to change. As of right now he isn't my type since I can't marry him and because he's put up a lot of walls that we've yet to fully get through. It feels like an act, and I hope that he's redeemed in some way.
That explains a few things I didn't get. The lust magic thing-- It did stand out to me when I first went through some scenes, and it is definitely not how I would write him. I'm a bit concerned with some of his behavior but the 'he's a r@pist' thing I thought was a bit of a stretch, a world where people don't really give or ask consent unless they want to/are written to be conscious of that.
On more technical aspects of his stats, I rarely use him for battle. A lot of his issues stem from the fact that he's simply not powerful enough. So I usually keep him languishing in the inn until more content for him comes out..
Now, to be fair, we can not marry any guy currently so I do not see why you knock that against him. Well, there is that Nakanos bad end where the granny makes you his perfect waifu for his tsum heart... Man, fuck Kinu and her interdimensional cock-blocking ways.
I think you can become Brint's wife? If I'm not wrong. I usually take Brienne along since I"m not crazy about huge beefy men, but I do love his personality so I'll probably go through his content a few times
About Nakano... I like pretty men, and the fact that he's off limits just cause he might potentially marry someone who may or may not exist is funny but also annoying. My champ would definitely collect his grumpy butt and put him in her boy harem.
Sorry, I'm new to the forum so I've only seen a little bit of what people have said. This will probably be brought up again though, as new people are exposed to Quin and have a thing or two to say.
Heh, you are opposite of me. I love Brints design and some part of his personality, but there are little things that just push me away from idea of actually marrying him or considering him husbando material.
The most personal one being... Well you know how you said that the game treats your relationship with Kiyoko like that between a woman and a man (that happens to be a deadbeat dad)? Well, I agree with Antlers that the relationship between Brint and the champ feels to much like we are partaking a role of a lovestruck girl. One where we can not help but go on and on how amazing our "hunk of a boyfriend" is.
And since I rarely get knocked up by him on account that I engage with guys mostly as a guy (with few exceptions), most of his more romantic moments are absent in my saves. And those that are present follow the aforementioned problem of treating my champ like a chick in the relationship.
But my options are same as yours-- limited, so I will probably marry him just to see how it turns out. Who knows, maybe he would be willing to wear a dress if I ask him nicely.
If it was just someone that may or may not exist, I would be less pissed than I am now... Actually, the following realization does not make me more pissed, just more defeated.
Because Rindo also gets to take a swing at the sexy twink. I guess that my boy-seeking champ is just not that important... Thank Gods (excluding Keros) for Teti because If my only option for foxy marriage (or appropriation of one) was to become Takahiros concubine... Yuck!
So yeah, we need more boys to construct out boy harems. Still waiting for a catboy husbando.
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I mean there'll always be new ppl coming in and out of the forum so for ppl that's been around in this forum for a while like me and you it's old news. Still, just like there'll always be ppl either complaining about ryn getting a vagina, winter wolf or kitsune drama, etc. it's kind of inevitable. While they could comb through the older topics pretty sure most ppl don't want to do all that or feel too lazy to.
And to be fair in any form of art and with writing in general there'll always be the author's intent of how the writing is supposed to be perceived but there can always be a difference in how the reader might perceive things. That's what makes ppl's reading experience different and fun you know? Just like how ppl can perceive the same movie in different ways. So even if the author wants their character to view certain ways can't stop ppl from interpreting them differently or voicing/arguing their opinion. Even if it ends up heavily mischaracterizing them in the process.
Unfortunate that so many ppl view Quin in a heavily negative light but to be fair Quin is pretty shady considering his past association with the cult and he also isn't of the best moral character. As I said though hope that new content of him can have his perception changed though.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
And I'll do it again.
Though as I mentioned in the edit, I had no idea that was the writer as I posted that. I'm more just extremely confused now, as this sort of reaction would be incredibly predictable to the one writing up this character before a public release. You don't spend that much time typing up painstakingly detailed passages about how much of an asshole your character is, and then get surprised/grumpy when people call them an asshole. They're just causing themselves grief at that point.
I know why Berwyn had to be changed up, but I'm kinda sad about what's been done to him. He just feels a bit too aloof now, as if all the time the champion spent with him didn't really matter
Reading comprehension questioned as you don't understand my rebuttle. You can't even realize who you're replying to. It's always funny to me how that's the defense of this group of Quin haters: "Well I like him though, here's just me ragging on him for a few pages NBD."
Then it turns into threads. And then you're just like every other eye-rolled alleged critic. It follows a trend that the overwhelming majority of criticism aimed at Quin always ends up "Well I didn't play X but I know Y so therefore you're wrong and Quin is evil/a rapist/only about sex."
Sorry to break it to you that I don't really feel too much interest in placating you. I'm not paid to write and you certainly don't support me. You don't have factual criticism, just opinionated ones. For example...
Ah yes, here comes a "deep review" of Quin, citing these two things as his entire character. That tells me you have NOT actually played his content. Or you must surely think every other character that has content of turbo horny (Arona) or rapey vibes (weird might be Arona too here TBH) is solely defined by it.
Remember that part where Arona is one of the only companions willing to kill in your name? No real moral qualm on that?
Get back to me when you guys who always cite these outlandish takes actually take up a problem with the other characters that equally do it and do so at a large/impressive scale. You won't, though, because you only see the male character doing it and not the others.
There is a point of resolution: come to me with a valid fact and not some sappy opinion that can't stand scrutiny. It has happened in the past and did lead to corrections/changes/additions to verify intent of content. But overwhelmingly, the forums don't bring that out anymore. The majority of people are alting or on burner accounts doing their regular piss contest. It's why I largely ignore the forums now.
I'm extremely confused how you can attack a character and not know who wrote them/who wrote what content. But you did and that's saying something.
I really dislike double-posting, but I want to answer this as it's pretty important.
You do not have to recruit Quin or kill him off. You can just let him keep running forever. Once you finish Harvest Valley, you would never see him again. So yes: it is your own fault for OCD about open quests. Unlike the forced choice to kill or spare + fuck the Alraune, I give you a neutral choice. Complain about all forced choices or don't at all.
As for the last thing, that sounds like a bug. His questline for the Gym shouldn't pop unless he's a companion. It's weird for him to fight for you if you haven't convinced him to join you as a companion. If that is happening, report it in the Bug Report section.
There is not a corruption path planned. Blame the people who neg'd me for years and kept demanding me to feminize him, as I was open to the idea of a femboy/more corrupt version of Quin until people with bad attitudes drove me to not want to cater to them. This is the same reason a lot of my content interest dried up: I have no rush to write content for people who want to bitch all about it. I got nagged for over a year about Byvernia preg, released it, then never heard about it after the first week it was out.
That's when I had my reality check: unless I become a paid employee for CoC2, I will write when it doesn't impact my life and when I feel like it. I've felt like it recently, actually, but haven't been able to get the freetime. I did piece out part of Leofric's content drop the other day for something, in fact, and intend to finish dropping him as long as my schedule allows this week. But I get hopeful a lot like this, so no promises. More Quin is in the chamber for later, though, which does cover his softer side. This is why there is a relationship system. It will matter. I went through and outlined the specific ranges a while back for writers, in fact, because I wanted to narrow down issues with how to interpret it.
???? I'm not even talking about Quin in that reply post but rather responding to foreverlurker saying, "Most things in this are heavily sexualized it is a porn game why play it otherwise no offense." And wasn't even mentioning Quin that he was those type of characters
And in my previous post in this same page to morii that:
I literally used Arona as an example of horrible shit she does and so does other npcs does. I also said I never saw him as rapey asshole.
I understand that you're angry or tired that ppl constantly shot on Quin but I never claimed some of that stuff you have said and even said there are plenty characters who do worse. And he gets shit on just because he's a guy. I know you don't feel like reading every posts but this post was on this same thread page right now.
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CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
There was not for much for me to comprehend there because I both barely read the initial post as I have little ambient interest in discussing this character at all and just have an issue with people saying illogical shit(whether someone likes or dislikes a character is their choice, I couldn't care less), and as I've said to someone else on here I have a bloody neurological fuckup that makes it extremely difficult for me to retain names, so I wasn't going to recognize another jumble of letters off of a profile pic when I've never seen you post prior.
But no, go on and be a cunt about this when I was nothing but cordial aside from the use of the word 'asshole' in relation to the character's personality specifically, you wonderful person you. Really getting me in the mood to even consider anything you're going to prattle about now.
Not even going to bother continuing this conversation if you're going to act like this just because your original character is getting seen not in the bizarre, asinine way you had dreamed them up before writing them out, this is the kind of emotional response I expect from some youngster joining an RP forum for the first time and getting their character criticized in literally any way.
You're better off not even engaging with them, they're riding the spite waves now and I do not know them well enough to even begin to make an estimation on when it would be safe to attempt conversation without the presence of extreme emotional bias. As they are now, it'd be like trying to make conversation with a screaming toddler, grating on the nerves, extremely unfulfilling and ultimately futile.
I like where you try to deride me for how I act after you've spent pages ragging a character while saying you like it, hate it, and then telling lies about it. And then you try to flip out and act like my defense of my character against your opinions is too much... without knowing who you're even talking to. You just click-and-type. Zero thought.
You then go on to act like some morally superior person while insulting me right back in turn. Your false intellect boner must feel huge trying to "get me". It's pathetic watching you try to big brain play and moral highground me as reacting this way because you don't see him the way I want you to or whatever nonsense you're telling yourself.
I'm acting this way because it's an opinion you have. It's not critique and it's groundless. Get positively wrought in your own stew, desperately hoping you can have some "big own". You're not the first and you won't be the last person who makes groundless ass-moans about Quin. You've moaned with a few of them in this thread for a while now despite you supposedly "enjoying his content" when "you're in the mood". Do you hate him or like him?
I don't care if you do or don't. Just stop telling lies about him. That's it. I don't care if you hate or like him at the end of the day, but I don't stand for people deliberately telling lies about my characters.
Cope and seethe on your supposed calm and aloof manner. You're the one who took grave offense that I called your opinion-slinging factually wrong and uninformed. You're the one who talks about my content. I don't even know who you are, much like all the other haters, and will honestly forget you exist in a week.
I used it as a point of reference because that statement is what people like this frequently default to with no basis beyond opinion. I didn't do it to rag you specifically. This is why I reiterated the bits about Arona: to showcase how the person above is one of many who is morals pearl-clutching their OPINION to try and make me change the game or to try and argue against the FACTS of what's in the game.
Yes I can tell him to fuck off if I don't want to deal with some cultist, but apparently that's a Corrupt action, and so doesn't seem in character for my Paladin. I wanted to just keep him safe and keep an eye on him, but not deal much with him further. On that character notably; I run multiple characters and I have another that's taking the "taleer package" on a regular basis. Once he is in Hawkethorne, the "Go ask him again" about recruiting him will pop regardless of if I ever actually ask him if he wants to come along or not, that should only proc if I ever asked him to begin with if he wanted to join, if I didn't then presumably I didn't care and just felt like I had to rescue him from his attackers and, y'know, not be a dick.
And sorry for the misunderstanding; I meant only that the Training quest (which as said I enjoyed, and it's nice to have him much more versatile, don't get me wrong, I like that the quest is there) will automatically proc as soon as he is recruited, giving you another quest to deal with. I'm just saying that once he is recruited he should have a dialogue option to talk about "Further training?" or something like that, which then triggers that quest, so if your character is a tank already and don't need another, but would like some AOE disabling with his Charmer talents, then I can't turn down or just never start that quest.
As mentioned I have OCD issues, games like Skyrim can be an outright nightmare where I'm stuck obsessively doing every single fetch quest in the journal just to clear it, because my broken mind tells me I have to do it, hence why I don't like forced quests in general. I don't feel the kill/spare Alarune compares in this respect, any more than dealing with the Winter City counts, it's part of the MQ, and doesn't really result in much difference overall, other than the character being there vs not. Rather a comparison that is an equal annoyance is the Maids quest later when you get the Wayfort properly, if I don't care about having maids going in my way and interrupting me on my stern military commander type that wants to run an ordered fort, that's just another quest stuck there. Another comparison is Azzyran automatically triggering the bimbo quest as soon as she is recruited, but at least that's one that you can get done with pretty fast (not to mention if you don't care about Azzyran beyond fixing her Hive, you don't have to recruit her to begin with. You can even completely avoid ever recruiting Arona for that matter. But if you just don't want to be a dickbag to this rando in need you just met, you are "forced" to recruit him.)
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Look, I told you I don't really feel up to having this conversation if you're going to be such a toxic little thing about it, but I literally can't help but be pinged by this and so it at least got a glance over, and this is the kind of thing you're saying?
You're not talking to me, you imprinting what you believe me to be saying do to your own preconceived notions. I have zero interest or use in making you look foolish, you are a name I can not remember on a forum that I will interact with maybe 3-4 more times before we never speak to one another again, and in the span of days if not hours no one will even remember the specifics of the conversation we had unless they stumble upon it again.
Well, I am mildly pissed at you now for throwing shade at my fucking brain damage, but I suppose that's technically not your fault even if you were a proper ass about me having a spotty memory.
As for the whole 'you spent all those posts ragging on him yadda yadda yadda something I don't even remember bleh do you hate him or not??' nonsense, I spent all those posts leveling with people and giving them the honest rundown of your character. For a porn game writer, you seem to really have a hard time connecting the possibility that some people might like fantasizing being a bit degraded or with a morally repugnant partner at times. I'm into it enough to like the content when I'm feeling a wee bit kinky that day, but I'm also not going to lie to myself or anyone else and act like he's not an asshole sleezeball.
Anyhow, you're too quick to jump to conclusions and too emotionally vulnerable, this is not a good way to live. You need to grow up a bit, learn to understand and take non-hostile criticism and brush off the worst of it or you're just going to end up eating yourself alive mentally. Take a moment and calm yourself down before responding to anyone here.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
I, uh, I missed this part in the initial glance over, and now I am kind of feeling like a fool for expecting any sort of emotional maturity from this discussion in the first place.
...
Weeeeelp, now I have to live the life of someone that can't even read Quin's name in the companion list without hearing the words 'cope and seethe' being used unironically. This is fucking terrible.
Sigh I knew something like this was going to happen. Knew it as soon as Antler's comment on page 142 was posted.
Well that's nice to know. But unfortunately (or fortunately? I can't tell) all my potential complaints about Quinn are not based on facts but just an opinion that he doesn't stand out in the crowded field of companions. I'm open to having my mind changed tho.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Look I am sorry it got this bad but like I said I had no idea they were even the author when I was posting that, nor did I expect things to end up like this when I thought we were all keeping things fairly(mileage may vary here I suppose) civil.
Honestly I've just utilized ye ol' Ignore on them to save myself the grief of knowing how one of the authors is conducting themselves, so that should be at least a bit of the back and fourth put to the curb.
Though someone could of, you know, warned me they acted like that and I would of saved us all the trouble by actually deleting the post instead of settling on an edit. You people had a responsibility to save your resident antler enthusiast from this migraine. This betrayal shall not stand.
I have no intention of changing opinions. I only spoke up because yet another rando who will inevitably fade-to-black started to state opinions as fact. As mentioned, let people feel whatever opinions they want. You guys will either support the writing or you won't. I'm only ever coming into the forums these days to right some misinformed passerby's bad info. This is a trend that happens commonly in this community both on and off the forums (not just Quin-related) and is the only thing I ever give any shit about these days.
Haters are going to hate. If you end up liking my content, cool. But I don't cater my content differently just from opinions, especially those like the one who keeps victimizing themselves after talking opinion as fact for far too long. The circle jerk on the forums can only go so far before someone says something and they always act like they had some huge moral victory when I call them out on it. This is a looping cycle normally involving the same types of accounts and people each time, normally on rotations after they catch bans or ghost out to craft new identities. And it's always the same: the moment I step out, they take great offense and then never factually defend their points. They can't fathom me calling out their disingenuous behavior with even the slightest hint of rudeness and then play their entitlement card.
Let any of them actually support me and then they can bring some of those opinions my way. You know, the opinions. Not them slandering the character and making baseless assertions as if they're factual.
Won't hold my breath.
Ever thought about going the Wsan route and just leaving the forums entirely? Speaking as someone who finds the mercenaries charming and was looking forward to the Hirrud stuff, the last thing I'd want is to see yet another writer for the game vanish, especially if it's from being fed up with the community. If you're only dropping by to correct people on loop, it seems like your time would be better spent just writing or doing something else that wont otherwise cause you to burnout or associate your projects with the frustration of interacting with people here.
There are a lot of battles that are, by design, meant to make the character feel less like a hero, and more like a pawn between the powers that, if encountered by a character of a level that it was meant for works, but when a character has exceeded a certain level, or obtained a certain level of cheese for their class, rapidly becomes boring and droll. Just as one example, running Gewyr quest, it has gotten to the point where the cultist horde has stopped being titled with a keyboard character. There needs to be a hard set point for each battle, no matter what it's meant to represent, where there is a given end to it. Either by Kas coming out and telling the character that they weren't supposed to win and ending the battle, or by the character just being given the win. How hard is it to just write a win for the player? Is it really that bad to just have the player win when they weren't supposed to? Is it so hard to just acknowledge that a player came prepared and won even if you didn't want them to? Furthermore, numbering the cultists rather than using a letter system would be vastly better in the first place, and I have absolutely no idea why it wasn't used. At least then we could make a bragging rights thread about how many were defeated on which difficulty. I've been pressing keys for an hour now and slamming damage out at an obscene pace because I was ready for a multi target fight with my skills and items, but it doesn't matter for the horde is endless. I'm betting I could reach the sum total of the entire population of the world that CoCII takes place in, including each and every person who has died up to that point in its history, and the battle would keep going.
This speaks to a failure of reading comprehension. You are told by Gweyr, going in, that you shouldn't keep fighting but withdraw after you feel you've done enough. If you keep on going to the point that the game runs out of letters that's entirely your fault for missing not only her dialogue but the bolded prompt right before the battle triggers that tells you this.
Like I said, a total failure of reading comprehension on your part:
You are explicitly told this is not a fight you can win and that you should run away once you've done your bit. Having Kas show up to tell you that you aren't meant to win would break the fourth wall and the narrative, since what's going on up in the Rift is Tollus doing his own thing. There is likewise no reason for the game to 'just give you the win' here when it's made crystal-clear that you're not meant to win, but to distract the cultists for a while.
The devs have been clear that they only milestone conduct that they want to encourage. People trying for some kind of record in a fight that explicitly isn't meant to be won isn't something they care to encourage.
It's worth noting the GweyrQuest Distraction battle (and the Harem Spirits battle) was initially balanced when Resolve was still a thing, and tease enemies were terrifying foes. Your party would have lower Resolve bars, Resolve healing was niche and paltry, and every tease attack would bring you closer to your doom. Then Resolve was removed, and you can rack up silly numbers in both fights by bringing any healer. Which goes to explain why the game doesn't account for champ annihilating the fights.
Also, are there any other battles with endless foes in the game? I just remember the Distraction battle where you're meant to knock out 11 demons and leave, and the Harem Spirits where you just Defend once to win.
Also, are there any other battles with endless foes in the game? I just remember the Distraction battle where you're meant to knock out 11 demons and leave, and the Harem Spirits where you just Defend once to win.
So basically, I'm supposed to suspend my disbelief and just say "Oh yeah, they've got an army of a few thousand here despite having zero real supply lines, zero connections to even the big bad at this point, and there's barely been much, if any at all, comment about cultist raiding parties across all of the content so far."? Ok, let me reform my gripe, CoC has a better story than CoCII even at comparative points of development, and it shouldn't be that way considering they've now got a fairly extensive team working on the game, as far as text based games go.
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