What are your gripes/criticism of TiTs?

Stemwinder

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Jun 15, 2018
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Looking past any of the other reasons I was prepared to type up for why this isn't true, one of the things I notice about this whole thing is that you keep acting as though there's an infinitely available supply of coders who can be reassigned to do other things. As it stands, there's always things that need to be coded, and moving one of the small handful of coders (be they paid or volunteer) who can work on standard content to working on ship content would cripple the output of content to the game. You're right that having to do a huge project solo is never ideal, but the reality of the matter is that it's what we have to deal with.
That's why I say that this is a management problem. If there's a big project that isn't making progress and this big project is holding up the development of the whole game then that's a call for focus and resources to be shifted from adding more minor content (which is already piled up so high and bottlenecks quickly since there aren't more people sorting through it). Yes, it may mean a few months with little to show, but at this point Fenoxo has well established that he's not going to flake out and disappear with everyone's money (and if some temp coders are brought in to get this project done the volunteers can even work on getting some content coded in so it's not a stall-out). There's enough good faith here that if Fenoxo said he wanted to make a big push to get this out and that other content would slow down in the meantime most of those backing it would understand - or show some excitement, even.

As for reviewers saying it can't be addressed is just untrue. Guidelines could be set down, a process could be codified, the whole thing could be streamlined so that Fenoxo himself is just double-checking rather than doing the bulk of that work himself. Content backs up precisely because it's hard to say what will get approved, why, and in what order anything is going to be looked at or implemented. Letting all of this stay messy and vague is why it comes down to, as you say, an issue of people not having enough time. It takes too much time and individuals have to do too much because the process still has so many "I'll do this when I get to it" aspects. Doing more with less isn't a bad approach but it's one that only works when everything is running smoothly - that is when everyone knows exactly what to do, every step has more than one person who can move it along, and the process as a whole isn't dependent on one particular person having to pop in at each step to do a significant amount of the work before it can move on to the next.

I couldn't say why that is, I'm not privvy to that sort of information, but based on how it works now it looks as though Fenoxo doesn't trust anyone else to do the work of approving content. That in itself is a type of management issue; bosses need to be able to delegate.

And just to clarify that last part: when you've worked on enough projects there are certain signs that stick out. Too many cooks is one sign of poor management but the opposite - one or more people wearing too many hats - is another. For a project of this size the basic staff would be a head writer (who, in addition to doing the actual writing, lays down the guidelines for all other writers to follow), a head editor (who enforces the standards and guidelines of the head writer, leads the approval process, organizes the content for the coders, and directs any additional editors on what they should be looking for/at), a head coder (who lays down the framework, does the heavy lifting for the game systems, and assigns tasks to any additional coders), and a project lead (who makes sure everyone is on task, sets the tasks, does final approvals - all the organizational work).

With TiTS Fenoxo is doing many of these things himself. When that happens it's almost always an issue of either extreme disorganization (no one else can help out because only the boss knows the plan and the boss doesn't share much) or a trust issue; the boss does so many things himself because the boss doesn't think anyone else can do it the way he wants it done. Being the head writer, editor, -and- project lead is already stretching one person far too thin.
 
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Evil

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I'm going to get popcorn while I watch you dig yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.
 
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Dragonice

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That's why I say that this is a management problem. If there's a big project that isn't making progress and this big project is holding up the development of the whole game then that's a call for focus and resources to be shifted from adding more minor content (which is already piled up so high and bottlenecks quickly since there aren't more people sorting through it). Yes, it may mean a few months with little to show, but at this point Fenoxo has well established that he's not going to flake out and disappear with everyone's money (and if some temp coders are brought in to get this project done the volunteers can even work on getting some content coded in so it's not a stall-out). There's enough good faith here that if Fenoxo said he wanted to make a big push to get this out and that other content would slow down in the meantime most of those backing it would understand - or show some excitement, even.

As for reviewers saying it can't be addressed is just untrue. Guidelines could be set down, a process could be codified, the whole thing could be streamlined so that Fenoxo himself is just double-checking rather than doing the bulk of that work himself. Content backs up precisely because it's hard to say what will get approved, why, and in what order anything is going to be looked at or implemented. Letting all of this stay messy and vague is why it comes down to, as you say, an issue of people not having enough time. It takes too much time and individuals have to do too much because the process still has so many "I'll do this when I get to it" aspects. Doing more with less isn't a bad approach but it's one that only works when everything is running smoothly - that is when everyone knows exactly what to do, every step has more than one person who can move it along, and the process as a whole isn't dependent on one particular person having to pop in at each step to do a significant amount of the work before it can move on to the next.

I couldn't say why that is, I'm not privvy to that sort of information, but based on how it works now it looks as though Fenoxo doesn't trust anyone else to do the work of approving content. That in itself is a type of management issue; bosses need to be able to delegate.

And just to clarify that last part: when you've worked on enough projects there are certain signs that stick out. Too many cooks is one sign of poor management but the opposite - one or more people wearing too many hats - is another. For a project of this size the basic staff would be a head writer (who, in addition to doing the actual writing, lays down the guidelines for all other writers to follow), a head editor (who enforces the standards and guidelines of the head writer, leads the approval process, organizes the content for the coders, and directs any additional editors on what they should be looking for/at), a head coder (who lays down the framework, does the heavy lifting for the game systems, and assigns tasks to any additional coders), and a project lead (who makes sure everyone is on task, sets the tasks, does final approvals - all the organizational work).

With TiTS Fenoxo is doing many of these things himself. When that happens it's almost always an issue of either extreme disorganization (no one else can help out because only the boss knows the plan and the boss doesn't share much) or a trust issue; the boss does so many things himself because the boss doesn't think anyone else can do it the way he wants it done. Being the head writer, editor, -and- project lead is already stretching one person far too thin.

Just give it up, when someone else who's working on the game itself is saying something and you don't listen that's just arrogant. You're saying their isn't much management but he's saying you have to understand everything in order to do work on the game, so you can't just throw people into it. They're working and addressing every issue they can said the dev, end-of-discussion.
 

Evil

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Stemwinder, lets just put it this way. EVERYTHING. IS. PLANNED. OUT.

Everyone knows what they are doing. There used to be a Trello where you could see what everyone was doing, until some dipshit tried to mess with it and they made it private.

There is a schedule of content to be released, its all set out and paced. If someone can't do something, another person can take it on. There's enough redundancy within the group that there is someone who can do something. The artists have their assignments, as do the coders, as do the writers. And if Fen wants to be the one who reviews the pile of submissions, then its because he knows he has good people that he trusts elsewhere. And they are.
 

Violent_Peace

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Sep 16, 2015
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I personally feel Stemwinder is right.

But I feel people are dog piling on them and shouldn't lecture at them. It's a gripe they have with the game and I feel like people jump on a person when they just tell how they feel about the game.

Shit i know people see me as an asshole. But like when people come in, new or old, I feel like when they come in and they express their feelings about the game and the way things are done and they don't agree with it, I feel like people dog pile on the person who thinks differently than the rest and punch down on them instead of actually considering what they posted and makes the fourms a hostile environment to people who want to see more in the game.

I know things are already planned out, I know that most is already written, and I know that one person is writing big projects. But people know that if it's taking up so much time and that only one person is doing it that there should be others that give a hand. People aren't coming in saying that fen is doing it wrong but are saying that help for bigger projects and working on them should be the main priority than smaller content sometimes.

But I feel that my post is just gonna be seen as."You guys are making the game wrong make it like this."
 

Dragonice

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Oct 7, 2017
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I personally feel Stemwinder is right.

But I feel people are dog piling on them and shouldn't lecture at them. It's a gripe they have with the game and I feel like people jump on a person when they just tell how they feel about the game.

Shit i know people see me as an asshole. But like when people come in, new or old, I feel like when they come in and they express their feelings about the game and the way things are done and they don't agree with it, I feel like people dog pile on the person who thinks differently than the rest and punch down on them instead of actually considering what they posted and makes the fourms a hostile environment to people who want to see more in the game.

I know things are already planned out, I know that most is already written, and I know that one person is writing big projects. But people know that if it's taking up so much time and that only one person is doing it that there should be others that give a hand. People aren't coming in saying that fen is doing it wrong but are saying that help for bigger projects and working on them should be the main priority than smaller content sometimes.

But I feel that my post is just gonna be seen as."You guys are making the game wrong make it like this."
He stated his thoughts and concerns and we where clarifying things about those concerns. I don't see how we're dog piling on him. When we explained to him what's going on he kept pushing the issue so we reinforced our previous statements. We understand the problem he's mentioned and Upcast Drake explained things and than he kept going, that's why we kept telling him. If it seems like we're bullying him sorry people don't know how to listen.
 
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Foxxling

Scientist
Creator
Guys (and gals and goats) there are a bunch of different ways to tackle a problem. Each with their own pros and cons that various people place various levels of value. To Stem the cons of bringing more people in are nothing compared to the pros. Twosome of the other people involved in the conversation... its not. It is as simple as that.

Also, essentially, Stem is right about the very nature of group projects, especially if progress is moving at a snail's pace and the current person working on it is dealing with life. But everyone else is also right, that it is hard and time-consuming to build a team and if multiple hands working on the project causes time to increase instead of decrease then boom it sucks. These two positions are not mutually exclusive.

Lastly, let's not forget, this is literally a place to air our gripes and criticisms of TiTs, be it the game or dev choices. So lets try to disagree with eachother gently and not all at once shall we?
when disagreeing with someone lets try to do so gently and not all at once. We don't want anyone to feel attacked.
 

Violent_Peace

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Sep 16, 2015
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Guys (and gals and goats) there are a bunch of different ways to tackle a problem. Each with their own pros and cons that various people place various levels of value. To Stem the cons of bringing more people in are nothing compared to the pros. Twosome of the other people involved in the conversation... its not. It is as simple as that.

Also, essentially, Stem is right about the very nature of group projects, especially if progress is moving at a snail's pace and the current person working on it is dealing with life. But everyone else is also right, that it is hard and time-consuming to build a team and if multiple hands working on the project causes time to increase instead of decrease then boom it sucks. These two positions are not mutually exclusive.

Lastly, let's not forget, this is literally a place to air our gripes and criticisms of TiTs, be it the game or dev choices. So lets try to disagree with eachother gently and not all at once shall we?
when disagreeing with someone lets try to do so gently and not all at once. We don't want anyone to feel attacked.

Thanks fox. Glad someone mentioned what this section was used for.
 

Stemwinder

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Jun 15, 2018
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I'm really not trying to harp on anyone in particular or say that everything's being done wrong and I know better - just that the problems are there to see and to people saying those problems are simply unsolvable that this isn't true. There are always different ways to approach problems. If one of the problems is that a single person is bearing too heavy a burden then one solution is, obviously, to automate and delegate parts of their process.
 

Stemwinder

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Jun 15, 2018
417
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He stated his thoughts and concerns and we where clarifying things about those concerns. I don't see how we're dog piling on him. When we explained to him what's going on he kept pushing the issue so we reinforced our previous statements. We understand the problem he's mentioned and Upcast Drake explained things and than he kept going, that's why we kept telling him. If it seems like we're bullying him sorry people don't know how to listen.
Well that's what discussion is, isn't it? Not simply "I'm right and that's that", it's talking - and listening! - back and forth.

Several people clarified what the process is like now and I clarified how these issues are not simply impossible-to-solve issues that have to be put up with. The ships aside if Fenoxo got a real editor and didn't do all of that work himself in addition to writing and coding -and- managing that backlog would clear away quickly. There are pros and cons to be discussed but the worst way to approach it is to cross one's arms and say anyone's word is the last word on it. As a for-instance even if Fenoxo himself were to drop in and say something like "I'm not hiring and editor, I don't trust anyone but myself to do that" it was still worth talking about in a topic for discussing gripes.
 
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Violent_Peace

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I'm really not trying to harp on anyone in particular or say that everything's being done wrong and I know better - just that the problems are there to see and to people saying those problems are simply unsolvable that this isn't true. There are always different ways to approach problems. If one of the problems is that a single person is bearing too heavy a burden then one solution is, obviously, to automate and delegate parts of their process.

Personally I don't think it's the fact that they aren't gonna do it because they want to read everything, but I feel they aren't gonna do it for a different reason and it's a reason that seems just somewhat unlikely but overtime I came to feel it's probably the truth but I won't say it because people are gonna dog pile.
 

Violent_Peace

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Sep 16, 2015
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A gripe I have, or critisim I have, is how boring and generic some characters feel. Like they just feel like carbon copies of each other and don't even seem like they are actual characters, or they are just like smarter new Texan bimbos. Like for example Anno, Kaede, Saendra, Shade. Maybe not shade, but still they all feel like they are the same especially like Kaede and Saendra in my opinion both just feel like the same character but just named different at times.

When you compare them to like characters like Fisiana and Paige they just feel like they are hollow and boring. Actually what's even crazier is that Riya has more personality to her than Anno, Kaede and like Saen it's just nuts that she seems more like a person than the aliens do sometimes.
 

Foxxling

Scientist
Creator
A gripe I have, or critisim I have, is how boring and generic some characters feel. Like they just feel like carbon copies of each other and don't even seem like they are actual characters, or they are just like smarter new Texan bimbos. Like for example Anno, Kaede, Saendra, Shade. Maybe not shade, but still they all feel like they are the same especially like Kaede and Saendra in my opinion both just feel like the same character but just named different at times.

When you compare them to like characters like Fisiana and Paige they just feel like they are hollow and boring. Actually what's even crazier is that Riya has more personality to her than Anno, Kaede and like Saen it's just nuts that she seems more like a person than the aliens do sometimes.

Yeah I'd have to say I agree... cookie cutter waifus are not S-tier content.

I mean for the people that like that type they see it as, "Omg yesh I have multiple ladies in this archetype." and to them, the subtle differences between the girls are more readily apparent. But if you're not super into having a lot of this specific kink or you're a variety person then they all just blend together.

PLUS all these damn Ausar makes me iffy about writing MY Ausar and that is just no bueno.
 

sumgai

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Jul 17, 2017
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Ausar, Terran, Gryvain and Anate should be all over the damn place; they're some of the most populous species in the setting.

To fix this, we need MOAR stuff in the game. And then some more NPCs on top of that just to be sure.
 

Violent_Peace

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Sep 16, 2015
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Yeah I'd have to say I agree... cookie cutter waifus are not S-tier content.

I mean for the people that like that type they see it as, "Omg yesh I have multiple ladies in this archetype." and to them, the subtle differences between the girls are more readily apparent. But if you're not super into having a lot of this specific kink or you're a variety person then they all just blend together.

PLUS all these damn Ausar makes me iffy about writing MY Ausar and that is just no bueno.

Hey man break the frame they are seen in, make an Ausar that will put the others to shame, Make that dog best girl.
 
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Linarahn

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Ausar, Terran, Gryvain and Anate should be all over the damn place; they're some of the most populous species in the setting.
True, but it kinda goes against the frontier feeling that's supposed to be evoked, yeah? I would've thought less populous and new species to be front and center, either being discovered or setting up to carve out niches for themselves away from the Human-Ausar centered worlds.
 

Evil

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Yeah, but on the other hand, if anyone was going to be in the frontline of a Planet Rush, it would be the people from the Core. Sera says that Terra is great...if you have money. Syri was living in a frontier town on Mhen'ga because her pay cheque goes that much further. You're going to have people who have a desire to make money for themselves or who want to lift themselves out of the poverty of their homes.
 

Linarahn

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True, but you'd have to have that money first, and most of the people who don't either have the skill to be hired by one of the big companies/conglomerates or are menials serving on ships and away from the public eye, yeah? I know it makes logical sense that a majority should be core world species, but it'd help the flair greatly if the people you meet weren't a billion ausar and one funky new alien.

It's just my personal taste though, of course.
 
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Preacher

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The most holiest of grounds
At least we know in this future that in the majority of Terra's populace there are not many if any poor people that live on the planet, barring the probably low-paid workforce that probably have some employee-standard living spaces assigned to each of them. I wonder, does the game ever explicitly state what planet is at the center of the "core" and what species primarily controls it? Would be a nice tidbit of lore if it does.

I'm still a tad disappointed that there isn't a planet that the player themselves discover first and establish first-contact with the natives instead of a dozen other people. Settlers and rushers and such. "Oh a new planet? Guess what? Other people found it way before you did." The majority of unique NPCs should be natives if that were to happen of course. At least we have Uveto where most are natives or semi-scarcely-seen species/morphs, even so, more dog people.
 
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criticAlls

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Hey man break the frame they are seen in, make an Ausar that will put the others to shame, Make that dog best girl.

I dunno. I feel like making a dog girl be "best girl" is just making another dog girl. Like they're all "best girl," so far they've all been dog-people and. If you want something that stands out you'll have to make a dog girl that's.. not at all like a dog. Make it so that who she is has absolutely zero to do with what she is, completely subvert all expectations one might have from looking at her. So that she's not "best girl," but instead "best [insert name of character here]"

At this point, for me, every time I run into an Ausar it's just "Oh, another dog girl/boy." And whenever I think of them I don't think of them by name, it's always "That one dog girl with the white hair" or something similar because they just don't really stand out in any way beyond "species, sexual organs, hair color."
 

Violent_Peace

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Sep 16, 2015
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I dunno. I feel like making a dog girl be "best girl" is just making another dog girl. Like they're all "best girl," so far they've all been dog-people and. If you want something that stands out you'll have to make a dog girl that's.. not at all like a dog. Make it so that who she is has absolutely zero to do with what she is, completely subvert all expectations one might have from looking at her. So that she's not "best girl," but instead "best [insert name of character here]"

At this point, for me, every time I run into an Ausar it's just "Oh, another dog girl/boy." And whenever I think of them I don't think of them by name, it's always "That one dog girl with the white hair" or something similar because they just don't really stand out in any way beyond "species, sexual organs, hair color."

As much as I don't really care for ausar much anymore, I support people's writing even if I don't like or even plan to go for their work. I was telling Foxxling to break the mold of Ausar being mostly basic bitches. I still do support Foxxling's writing, he could write a 1 foot eldrich horror with 3000 tentacles for a face and I'd honestly support it but wouldn't go for it.

But I understand you, for you it's a blur between characters and I feel that way too with many characters in this game, not just ausar.
 

Foxxling

Scientist
Creator
Hey man break the frame they are seen in, make an Ausar that will put the others to shame, Make that dog best girl.



Best... Girl?
tenor.gif
*boy

Jokes aside tho... thanks VP. Can never get enough encouragement and support you are the bee's knees.


I dunno. I feel like making a dog girl be "best girl" is just making another dog girl. Like they're all "best girl," so far they've all been dog-people and. If you want something that stands out you'll have to make a dog girl that's.. not at all like a dog. Make it so that who she is has absolutely zero to do with what she is, completely subvert all expectations one might have from looking at her. So that she's not "best girl," but instead "best [insert name of character here]"

66856599.jpg

Again, jokes aside, yeah I agree 100% that in this game the characters (persistent characters specifically) should be written as characters first. I mean I know this is a smut-tastic game so a lot of the content written has a straight out of a porn script quality to it but I believe this game is capable of holding onto someone with the emotional complexity of a Lilliana (of Dragone Age fame) or a Subject Zero (of Mass Effect fame). So, to me, as long as you do the work and have a full character with virtues, flaws, goals and motivations in mind (and you stay true to that) you're golden. That means not superimposing your own values and experiences onto that character and it also means building their kinks around their personality instead of the opposite which is, understandably, what most of us do.

Speaking of kinks... I believe that generic characters should be built around the kink(s) they provide while persistent characters should be built around their personality. Characters like Geoff who have their own things going on, their own goals and personal relationships, are my favorite.

But I understand you, for you it's a blur between characters and I feel that way too with many characters in this game, not just ausar.

I get that with most of the bloobs bouncing around in TiTs. To people like me who play male and don't get into the m/f content there are a lot less puppy people than for anyone else especially if you only consider persistent npcs.

Characters that stood out to me while drawing me in for sexy times were just kind of odd men out like Jerome, Geoff, Lund and the Storm Lancer. They're all varying levels of a good character but also with unique interactions and scenes that don't break immersion and make you feel like they're sex dispensers even thought legit two of them are just that.
 

Violent_Peace

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Sep 16, 2015
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I see you're a man of refined taste.

But you're right, a character's personality needs to be at the front while their kink should be connect to their personality. I was talking to people about this the other day, many if not alot of the characters are boring and some just are tropes giving in to the kink.

Like Sera before you break her into a sub. She's kinda of a dom trope, she wants to control everything in her life including the player till you break her which I love that that Nonsuch added.

Then there is Reasner who just fall into milfy mother type.

But the one trope character that keeps showing up and is everywhere is just the bimbo trope. And they just suck, and they just keep marching them out one by one and some of them are just sad like Mitizi, never had I ever wanted to make a goblin into a normal little techie like Shekka till she came along, for once I want to debimbofy someone.

@Foxxling like I said before man, no matter what anyone is writing, if someone put in the time and work to make the character item or being, I respect it even if I may not like it and if it follows lore I'll respect it's place, but if I dislike some thing enough i won't hesitate to change my feelings on anything.

But I still wish you the best of luck for them and will ask if you would choose a gryvain instead of a doggo. Not alot of Dragons around in the galaxy.
 
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Foxxling

Scientist
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I was reading the stuff for Gastigoth which i haven't done since it released and realized that it is a place where they whore our prisoners. The breeding services are just supposed to be more expensive (according to the wiki entry).

So that being said... why can't i pay to bang RK Lah? Is it just because it hasn't been written?
 

Evil

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I'm not sure what the plans were for Lah. I mean, characters with a vagina can bang Space Kurtz Lah, but that's more he's providing the breeding in breeding services.