Something I don't understand about Kiyoko and the Kitsune Den
- Thread starter Dry Eye
- Start date
-
- Tags
- None
Yay more Wayhaven fans.. though my fav vamp is Farah.
Farah's my second fave, but first pick for BFF.
It is very likely that the book arrives next year, but I do not know if my heart can wait, especially after the demo; but Coc2 made me stronger in the question of patience lol
I don't know, hopefully next year.. I did notice between book 1 and 2 there was a 2 year gap. Could be the same, I did ask Mishka who writes the books but she wasn't 100% sure if it would be the same.
Well the funny thing is, I dont view the Kinus as whom they marry but more, what they represent. I view HIme as the one Kiyoko wanted because she looks and acts like a fox but deal with things that mix both foxen and "barbaric" views to make her the best fit for the colonies, while Inari(oh hey literally fox) is a mirror of Kiyokos worst traits and is basically her mother, someone whom everyone really would rather not bother with but want her to still be the leader even if it means nothing will change. Also inari hating Kiyoko with a fucking passion for me just, it just doesnt sit right with me at ALL.
Doesnt change the fact I want to also add her to my characters foxen harem lol.
I see what you mean, but I think its less that, more continuing the tradition of marrying The liege to the family of retainser to keep them together.
Worst traits? You mean honesty, earnestness and self reliance. Look I'm not saying Inari has no flaws but she is nothing like Kiyoko while Hime is like an exact copy. And while I don't like Inari hating Kiyoko either I feel like it's something they can and will work through eventually. Inari at least does make it clear that she still loves and respects her mother even if she doesn't like her.
My problem with Hime Kinu is that she strait up does not respect the PC as a person, let alone as her father. Every time I talk to her I get the distinct impression that she only interacts with you out of politeness and not because she actually wants to and if I died tomorrow she'd only show up to the funeral because her mom was going and wouldn't shed a tear. All because your a "uncouth, barbarian, savage" who can't understand her cultured sensitivities. With Hime it's not that she hates you, it's that she doesn't care about you in the slightest.
Its not so much a case of Hime Kinu hating your or not caring about you, but rather this was a young foxling who had to grow up without her sire for over a decade and became attached to the only parent that could still be around. She takes after Kiyoko because Kiyoko became the biggest influence in her life, and she took those lessons from her mother more readily than what she could have learned from her sire. She's learned to walk the walk, talk the talk and stopped wearing her heart on her sleeve. Especially when you consider the sheer amount of pressure Hime Kinu is under; being the firstborn, she's running the house, expected to be perfect and expected to one day become a denmother herself. That's a lot to hide behind a mask of indifference.
Contrast that with the Inari version of Kinu, you have a young woman who is more down to earth, but who perhaps happier with herself. This is a young woman who prefers the company of crops than other people, but she's much more her sire's daughter. She's energetic, bubbly and far smarter than many people give her credit for. She's also far warmer to the Champion than Hime, and certainly has a better relationship with them then she does with Kiyoko.
Its almost as if your actions towards your child when they're growing up has an impact on them as an adult.
Contrast that with the Inari version of Kinu, you have a young woman who is more down to earth, but who perhaps happier with herself. This is a young woman who prefers the company of crops than other people, but she's much more her sire's daughter. She's energetic, bubbly and far smarter than many people give her credit for. She's also far warmer to the Champion than Hime, and certainly has a better relationship with them then she does with Kiyoko.
Its almost as if your actions towards your child when they're growing up has an impact on them as an adult.
Hime is more furture focused while Inari is more in the now, and Hime does care about you, kiyoko states as much. She says that Kinu even as hime is much more receptive to you then her because hey, both Kinus genuinely care for you as there father. The only time Hime Kinu acts negatively twards the PC is a Nanko talk where she says that not even you could convince her to give up on Nanako and his dogshit poetry. Other then that I think she mostly gives you the stink eye because you knocked the ever living fuck out of Miko, and I cant tell how she is with the whole Rindo situation due to not being a backer.
Kohi is UNDOUBTEDLY best fox.
More, she's CANONICALLY best fox. She has the social status of a limpet, which should, theoretically, relegate her to the bottom of the barrel as far as marriage prospects go, but she's so absolutely great that she has some very eligible kitsune bachelors not only willing but actually eager to marry DOWN for her.
Yeah, its interesting that the small fox who by all means knows people consider her a bottom of the barrel yet apperently has people WILLING to marry down for her is impressive, shes also got the sass to match the ass if her merchant person is anything to go off of.
I'm holding out judgement on who's best fox until Hana is in game. I like short Kinu (I know she's not actually shorter but she does look it) because I think she has alot more respect for her sire and has her own mind instead of being a stuck up carbon copy of Kiyoko.
Look even if it takes years, I'm willing to wait for a futa Kitsune.. though why one tail?
She probably had to trade each tail for one inch. Keros had to find a way to nerf her.
Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
Kiyoko might have said that but I don't buy it. Especially after a lukewarm reunion. not to mention how she seems so nonchalant about spending time with you. Like she's only doing it because you want to and not that SHE wants to. Also I don't think you ever get a return gift from her. Maybe I just haven't seen but please do tell me if she ever gives you a return gift for the fruit you give. Otherwise I guess she just doesn't appreciate the gifts you get for her.
Lone Wolf115
Well-Known Member
You do, like I said, both Kinus care for the PC the same. Its just one is more open about it to spite Kiyoko and the other trys to keep it respectable because she knows that you have much more pressing tasks, like saving the world. Its why it seems like shes so cold to you, its out of necessity.
I swore it was something to do with being cursed, so I wonder if its one of those "normal PC can interact but foxen PC might be pushed away" sorta things.
No. the Senninbari was for getting them free and the Bento box is from Kiyoko. I'm talking about this.
when you give Kinu some fruit as a Gift she prepares a return gift. Either a full course meal for you and your friends, or she plays a song for you on her japanese flute, thing, whatever it's called. I only remember getting gifts like that from Inari Kinu but never from Hime. and I remember Brint and Caits commenting on the food and remarking what a great cook she is.
this is a scene here -edit
does Hime Kinu do anything like this?
Last edited:
Yes, Hime has the ability to play an instrument like inari, give the champ a trail ration/kitsune gift(pretty sure its the only way to get them post foxenifiying) and just a wholesome kiss on the cheek, all of which have some funny Kiyoko interactions. If i had to guess you havent played on your hime save enough to get any of them. Both Kinus are fleshed out the same amount, Tobs wouldnt do that for a character hes willing to write 2 whole different varients for. I'll probably have to try for the scenes with hime for screens.
C
CMGuest
Guest
I'd argue it's not quite that, even. Really, it's largely reflected in the shorthand used to describe them: "Kitsune Hime" and "Inari Shoujo". Literally Princess and Girl, respectively. They're fundamentally the same person but it's down to attitude about their role and their outward expression in support of that attitude.
Hime is a princess first and foremost and tries to act in a way befitting that role. Being your little girl takes a backseat to living up to the ideal of that role. As the saying goes "heavy weighs the crown", and Hime is acutely aware of the implicit and explicit duties and expectations of her station, especially considering her recognized brilliance and the symbolic weight of her white fur.
Based on what we know of the culture, the combination of her fur and her heritage means it's highly probable that had she been born in her ancestral homeland she would have been arranged to be married to someone in the ruling family itself. Here in the colonies, that's not an option - especially considering the political landmines that came from Kiyoko's two century absence - but expectations for her are still sky-high and nobody makes a secret of that. Hime is the daughter who tries to be an exemplar, a perfectionistic lead-by-example type who religiously stands on ceremony because she's terrified of being caught without her makeup on, so to speak. She puts a huge premium on the idea of earning and validating the expectations that she's under, and treats any lapse in her abilities or decorum as a failure. Think back to when she got sick over her difficulties in learning the bow and naginata. Hime is the version that says "I know I can be better than I was then".
"Inari" ("Shoujo", really), is the flip side of the coin. She's your little girl first and a princess a distant second. While Hime does her best to model herself off of her people's expectations, Shoujo seems indifferent to them if not outright disdaining them.
If I were to sum each up in a word, it would be "overachiever" and "underachiever". Hime and Shoujo are two reactions to the expectations put upon a genius. Hime is the genius overachiever, who reasons that as a genius who is capable of more than most, it's her duty to surpass everyone's expectations. Shoujo is the genius underachiever who reasons that putting people like her on a pedestal is unreasonable and as such she's not going to bother trying to live up to such expectations in hopes that they'll eventually stop expecting her to do something special. Returning to the bow and naginata, Shoujo is the version that says "why should I make myself sick trying to live up to others' expectations?"
However, I think the moment that really highlights this contrast is when you compare Kiyoko's opinion to the variant Kinu's fiancees. With Nakano, she likes the match specifically because he's ambitious and wants to accomplish great things. Therefore Kiyoko reasons that he is a partner that would help Kinu's brilliance shine all the brighter. Conversely, she doesn't like the match with Hitoshi specifically because he's complacent and has no ambition beyond tilling the fields and coming home to a happy family, which she sees as something that will drag Kinu down and give her no outlet for her talents. To use contemporary parlance, there's more than a little resonance with the wry "she went to college to get her Mrs." quip.
It's an external perspective from Kiyoko, but I think it hits at the heart of the key difference between the two Kinu variations, as reflected in their fiancees. One feels obligated to push herself past the point of reason until she does something world changing or breaks, the other is complacent and satisfied to squander her abilities in a simple unchallenging life. Both are flawed perspectives that need to be curbed, but they're the flip side of the same coin, divergent personas rooted in how Kinu has come to view herself and her role.
Back to my original point, these attitudes inform the persona they adopt, which influences them both publicly and privately. Hime embraces her princess role and therefore utilizes a much more formal persona, taking special care not to make the smallest misstep and trying to live up to a romanticized ideal of how nobles and royalty should act (tangentially, this is reflected in how Hime was also the 'encourage romantic outlook' route, and Kiyoko notes that she probably let the girl read too many romances when she was young). Hime consistently puts on a brave face and tries to be what the people around her expect her to be.
Conversely, Shoujo instead opts to reject that with a much more casual country girl persona. Whereas Hime goes out of her way to conform to people's expectations, Shoujo is stubbornly willful and individualistic to the point of being dismissive as a matter of principle. She doesn't care what everyone else thinks, she's doing it her way, and that's that.
This probably goes a long way to explaining the perception that Shoujo has more affection for her sire: She's casual. There's a very simple dialogue tweak that arguably encapsulates this damn near perfectly: Hime calls you "Father", while Shoujo calls you "Dad". That's very much a reflection of formality, but we're also kinda conditioned to see the former term as cold and distant and the latter as warm and familiar. It's not necessarily the case - and I'd argue it isn't the case here - but experience within our own modern cultures prejudice us to that conclusion despite it contextually reflecting a broader pattern in their attitudes and speech. Hime stands on ceremony in a way that Shoujo does not.
Yeah, thats basically the best damn explanation for everyone.
She's Savin's planned contribution to the floofhaus, but she's way down the priority list so who knows when she gets implemented.