Something I don't understand about Kiyoko and the Kitsune Den

[Dry Eye]

It is pretty clear the Kitsune are uppity and consider you a piece of shit, you can't impress them with merit, even if after their patron god has shown an open personal interest in you. So what I am wondering is; why was there no problem with you marrying Kiyoko? You have zero status in their eyes (which is still important to them for some reason even though they're considered a den of losers in kitsune society), but this was never an issue brought up.

Also wish MC behaved like themselves more instead of trying to cater to this band of niminy piminy exiles who act like they are better than you at every turn. Like the number of times as a player I wanted to smack fire out of a fox when one of them displays an undercurrent of disrespect while the MC just sits there and eats it.

 

[Animefan666]

I'm no expert, but this is pretty much how I see it. It's because Kiyoko was pretty high up in society before she was assumed dead. As far as the exiles go, it still matters. None of them are really in a position to make a decision on it. Honor and tradition demands they accept it and their god approves. They're not gonna defy the will of their god.

 

[wery12345]

They dont have issue with Kiyoko marrying you because shes the highest on the pecking order in the colonys, also taking another shot cause someone gates the kitsune forgeting there society is isolationists. Also the PC does do a lot of stuff for them to be justified in there ire, even if Keros has a interest in you. You beat up there upper cast and the den mother you saved you had kits with, and if you take the deal you literally just jump to a upper rung of power.

 

[Dry Eye]

They dont have issue with Kiyoko marrying you because shes the highest on the pecking order in the colonys, also taking another shot cause someone gates the kitsune forgeting there society is isolationists. Also the PC does do a lot of stuff for them to be justified in there ire, even if Keros has a interest in you. You beat up there upper cast and the den mother you saved you had kits with, and if you take the deal you literally just jump to a upper rung of power.

I'm no expert, but this is pretty much how I see it. It's because Kiyoko was pretty high up in society before she was assumed dead. As far as the exiles go, it still matters. None of them are really in a position to make a decision on it. Honor and tradition demands they accept it and their god approves. They're not gonna defy the will of their god.

I would think being the highest in status would put more straints on the marraige, not less; that there is responsibilities and expectations that come with her position. If there isn't, then why does Kiyoko herself put so much pressure on Kinu? Especially regarding her potential engagement with Hitoshi, claiming the issue is he lacks ambition, yet she marries you, who no matter what level of ambition you may or may not possess could never possibly elevate your station within Kitsune society.

Also whatever ire they have is on them, the champion beat them up out of necessity, if you have the amulet the champion doesn't even want to fight them.

 

[SmithEK]

Actually imo the Kitsune have no right to hate the champion.. if Kiyoko wants to marry her/him then the den of unwanted have no say in it. I generally find it funny at their attitude towards the champ.. yeah I get they're peeved at them for breaking into their den but let's be realistic.. would said champ instead walked up to their front door and asked for Evergreen's sex toys back, would they do it? No.. because just like if you do the quest without having the amulet, you have to fight Komari, who denies never seeing the bag in question but if you meet her with said amulet she suddenly remembers seeing it in Miko's possession..

Kitsune are extremely petty but still one of my favourite races on this game.

 

[wery12345]

Ah, Inari Kinu, the problem fox who is the more fox of the 2 fox daughter choices. And i'm pretty sure foxen or not they will evenly not have a dislike of you, you've just need to earn there respect, and ignore weeb maximus Nanako.

who denies never seeing the bag in question

I mean this is miko were talking about, how many random fucking bags has that oversexed fox nicked?

 

[SmithEK]

True

 

[Grainy]

You can become Kitsune right?

What are the changes that make?

Are you respected?
Do all your future kids become Kitsune?
Is there a status effect that only goes away until after you feed?

 

[wery12345]

Yes, but as of right now there is still a unlying resentment, no Keros doesnt true blood you because you dont want to go around planting soul sucking kits in those who cant handle it, and no you dont because you still have a soul albit a fake. Those those last 2 would just be annoying to progam into the game so they just handled it that way lol.

Though it seems as the "story" of the Kitsune content goes on you can see the champ become more noticably kitsune and it seems a bit more respect by people.

 

[Grainy]

Yes, but as of right now there is still a unlying resentment, no Keros doesnt true blood you because you dont want to go around planting soul sucking kits in those who cant handle it, and no you dont because you still have a soul albit a fake. Those those last 2 would just be annoying to progam into the game so they just handled it that way lol.

Though it seems as the "story" of the Kitsune content goes on you can see the champ become more noticably kitsune and it seems a bit more respect by people.

Ah well, lost my interest in it then tbh.

The champ will continue being a weirdo who doesn't pass any of their genetic makeup to their children, even as a genetically dominant species lol.

 

[Dry Eye]

Actually imo the Kitsune have no right to hate the champion.. if Kiyoko wants to marry her/him then the den of unwanted have no say in it. I generally find it funny at their attitude towards the champ.. yeah I get they're peeved at them for breaking into their den but let's be realistic.. would said champ instead walked up to their front door and asked for Evergreen's sex toys back, would they do it? No.. because just like if you do the quest without having the amulet, you have to fight Komari, who denies never seeing the bag in question but if you meet her with said amulet she suddenly remembers seeing it in Miko's possession..

Kitsune are extremely petty but still one of my favourite races on this game.

I find them to be pretty insufferable the deeper into their content I get, even Kiyoko and Kinu who I previously liked before their release from the orb have such little regard for you and your feelings it makes you sometimes wonder if you matter to them at all.

Like what you are makes you less than even to them.

 

[vangersan]

Well from their point of view you abandoned them for 10 years, which champ actually apologizes for for whatever odd reason, and they are now very different people compared to then. Kinu spent those years with her mom who was trying to lead her down a path she thought was right and either fought her all the way and became convinced that she knows best or embraced the teachings until she became an almost mirror image of Kiyoko.

You don't matter less to them. You matter in a different way. To Kiyoko you are not just a guest who showed up to break the monotony of her isolation, you are the one who got her out of it when her own people thought her dead. And for Kinu you can either be the parent she actually talks to in case of Inari or a cheat day offering to Hime when she doesn't have to keep up the face of absolute perfection.

Hardly excuses them not telling you about the marriage because you would apparently get more upset at their choice then at your own family hiding that kind of stuff from you, but different cultures and all that stuff.

 

[Dry Eye]

Well from their point of view you abandoned them for 10 years, which champ actually apologizes for for whatever odd reason, and they are now very different people compared to then. Kinu spent those years with her mom who was trying to lead her down a path she thought was right and either fought her all the way and became convinced that she knows best or embraced the teachings until she became an almost mirror image of Kiyoko.

You don't matter less to them. You matter in a different way. To Kiyoko you are not just a guest who showed up to break the monotony of her isolation, you are the one who got her out of it when her own people thought her dead. And for Kinu you can either be the parent she actually talks to in case of Inari or a cheat day offering to Hime when she doesn't have to keep up the face of absolute perfection.

Hardly excuses them not telling you about the marriage because you would apparently get more upset at their choice then at your own family hiding that kind of stuff from you, but different cultures and all that stuff.

I don't buy that, Kiyoko didn't change, Kinu did sure. They did not even hold your absence against you, it was obviously Keros being a dick because I was just in the astral plane the night before their release. Your irrelevancy is not out of anger or hurt, it is encouraged culturally, your family just abides by it. REALLY puts in to perspective your entire relationship with Kiyoko: a companionship built on desperation. Affection grown with time after you fathering multiple of her kits, were it possible to have met her outside those strange circumstances of being trapped in the orb, there is no way she would have wanted to have kits with you let alone marry you later.

She may covet you like one would a pet, but I see now she certainly doesn't respect you as a person.

 

[SmithEK]

That just completely ruins the champs relationship with Kiyoko.. also I call bull.

 

[Aurore]

I always get a bitter taste in my mouth when I finish this content. I still believe that one day, this will result in something good in the end (I've been losing those hopes with each passing day.)

 

[wery12345]

it was obviously Keros being a dick

Equivalent exchanged my gamer(and because Kinu needed to be 18 to allow content for her to be made), cause honestly chances are if your doing kitsune content you actually like Kiyoko.

She may covet you like one would a pet, but I see now she certainly doesn't respect you as a person.

Yo how long ya arms with a reach like that?

there is no way she would have wanted to have kits with you let alone marry you later

Maybe, but the champ is also a once in a evertime catch for kitsune when it comes to chi so its hard to say.

 

[Grainy]

Maybe it is that whole souless thing that makes them the way they are. I mean even in the astral orb Kiyoko and occasionally Kinu come off as patronizing.

I always kinda just left feeling like I am being used by Kiyoko, the way she constantly kicks you out of the Astral plane for every little thing. 'Oh your child was just born?' Yeah you got to go.

 

[SmithEK]

Maybe it is that whole souless thing that makes them the way they are. I mean even in the astral orb Kiyoko and occasionally Kinu come off as patronizing.

I always kinda just left feeling like I am being used by Kiyoko, the way she constantly kicks you out of the Astral plane for every little thing. 'Oh your child was just born?' Yeah you got to go.

I'm not sure what you're reading but she gives you an option to stay and help her or leave with Kinu.. also I don't know if you have ever given birth but tbh Kiyoko reaction after is realistic in a sense. You don't want people around you after something like that.. I certainly didn't.

 

[Grainy]

I'm not sure what you're reading but she gives you an option to stay and help her or leave with Kinu.. also I don't know if you have ever given birth but tbh Kiyoko reaction after is realistic in a sense. You don't want people around you after something like that.. I certainly didn't.

No I mean after the birth, she tell you to leave after the growth with some vague excuse. Like the MC couldn't be around to see their child get situated.

 

[WolframL]

Maybe it is that whole souless thing that makes them the way they are.

Insofar as kitsune society and thus social interactions are heavily shaped by the need to control their impulses and reassure anyone living under them that Rules will be followed, yes. This is right there in their codex entry and Tobs gave a very detailed explanation here.

 

[Grainy]

Insofar as kitsune society and thus social interactions are heavily shaped by the need to control their impulses and reassure anyone living under them that Rules will be followed, yes. This is right there in their codex entry and Tobs gave a very detailed explanation here.

For the people of the trickster God they sure are sticklers for the rules.

 

[wery12345]

Considering compared to most races they are closer to the animal they represent then being a person? Yeah the rules exist to make sure they dont hurt other races, remember they need other peoples life essence to keep themselves "normal" basically.

 

[Tide Hunter]

For the people of the trickster God they sure are sticklers for the rules.

There's a fine line between being a trickster and being a felon.

 

[Burnerbro]

Insofar as kitsune society and thus social interactions are heavily shaped by the need to control their impulses and reassure anyone living under them that Rules will be followed, yes. This is right there in their codex entry and Tobs gave a very detailed explanation here.

For the people of the trickster God they sure are sticklers for the rules.

Judging by the ones we meet, the myriads of codes of conduct and even the Rule of Equivalent Exchange the kitsune prattle on about incessantly are a fig leaf at best. Only the foxes who are already highly principled and mindful of outsiders (if only in terms of the danger they possess) don't break those rules at the drop of a hat when dealing with said outsiders.

 

[wery12345]

I mean arent the foxes out looking for benifactors ones who are cutting it close with there hunger? Its why they attack you when you say no Im pretty sure(and it gives the area that even now only has 3 fights and 4 fucking interacts more) and Kura is Kura, she was bored and you looked strong and interesting to her.

 

[Kingu2]

I mean arent the foxes out looking for benifactors ones who are cutting it close with there hunger? Its why they attack you when you say no Im pretty sure(and it gives the area that even now only has 3 fights and 4 fucking interacts more) and Kura is Kura, she was bored and you looked strong and interesting to her.

Kiyoko describes them as a bit peckish not Starving and desperate. When I'm bit peckish I can go out and get some chips without feeling the need to rob the first person I run into for their food.

 

[wery12345]

You havent ran a motherfucker for there foams when your peckish? But nah I get why they do is primaily to get the place another combat enocunter for those who dont give a shit about kitsune. If anything they do it because whose to say how many times they've been attacked on sight for being soul sucking vampires.

 

[Karamaru]

From what I read, they were pretty open to others in the past. Komari even had two non kitsune students, one who wasn't even from the old country to begin with, and there are poor actors on both sides of the aisle in this, not to mention Raphael and his cronies attacking and burning down dens with said foxes still inside them so I reckon that leaves a pretty poor picture for the foxes about the natives.

Also, Kiyoko has expressed that she wants the kitsune to reveal themselves to the natives when the time is right and aid the people of Hawkethorne and Kor'minos like they did the other races of Kitsunhon.
The Champion I feel like can help them in this regard and from the latest patch I've read they all think pretty highly of you, but just won't admit it out in the open.

 

[wery12345]

Yeah Tobs has been pretty good at basically having a meta narrative of the foxes warming up to you, at least as a foxen champ, I deadass wont know how the normal people route looks.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

and from the latest patch I've read they all think pretty highly of you, but just won't admit it out in the open.

"It's not like I respect you or anything baka!"

If anything they do it because whose to say how many times they've been attacked on sight for being soul sucking vampires.

From what I know so far, never. They're the ones attacking people on site with no justifiable excuse. Kura practically admits to being bored but stops after 3 fights, win or lose, so it's just that the group is compromised of assholes.

Also, I'm still confused how Keros skipping ten years is excusable or makes sense when he can even ask you to rescue Kiyoko even. Hell, he punished Komari because everyone assumed Kiyoko died but when he finds out she's alive he takes ten years of family time away from her savior. I know meta wise, Tobs needed Kinu aged up to do her quests. But from a story perspective it never has made sense and makes Keros look like an inconsistent ass. And that's not getting into how their equivalent exchange rules are bs when apparently they can decide on the value of something from their perspective alone and steal it. They don't get to be the sole decider on what something's value is and if it's available for them to take with no input in the first place.

Don't you guys just love how the kitsune and discussions of their content always end up so divisive? Anyway Hatsu best fluff still.