You forgot to add that it would piss off people who don't want a relationship with any character being forced in.
Romance Systems in AAA games
- Thread starter Foxxling
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Nah i was airing my own grievences not any one else's. That being said I see your point.
For me though its all a matter of how its done. RPGs with concrete chars like Geralt in the witcher, Dante in devil may cry or Cole in infamous i can believe they're heteros. They're well defined and its believable.
But if i make my char, pick their past and can determine how the game ends then i should be able to choose who i fuck and not be forced to choose between the chicks the devs find hot
In the arena of AAA games tying a romance into the main story can be risky. Every Bioware game I've played had romance as an option but it never tied into the main story and I really can't expect that level of risk taking when current developers and publishers regard adding non-white characters as avant garde and modern.
At this point you can really only find romance tied into the main story from a dating sim.
Also Isabella was a horrible experimental character. If she were a male character a bunch of people would complain about the creep factor. Granted, her promiscuity was a bit of a running gag from DA:O but as a romantic interest the creep factor of the character is full-on in your face.
At this point you can really only find romance tied into the main story from a dating sim.
Be careful what you wish for, some of the romances I've seen are just the hetero romances copy/pasted onto the gay characters (see: dragon age 2). It works sometimes like Female Champion + Merrill but Female Champion + Isabella was terrible.
Also Isabella was a horrible experimental character. If she were a male character a bunch of people would complain about the creep factor. Granted, her promiscuity was a bit of a running gag from DA:O but as a romantic interest the creep factor of the character is full-on in your face.
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Yeah trust me that was nothing like what i was taking about.
Because my point was most devs making a plot relevant romance in an AAA game would just make it hetero pending the gender of your char.
And DA 2's everything suffered from severe time constraints. All things considered i would have expected them to nix gay romance options all together but they didn't, i only say this to give them their due credit cause for all its flaws DA2 isnt that bad.
Now that that is out of the way i have to say the only viable romances in my opinion were Fenris's and Meril's. Isabella was a hard no for me as well for the same reason, not that being a sloot is bad but its jarring for her to suddenly be all in love like that should have been branded as casual. Characterization above all. Avalines.. i don't think i ever did hers actually... and while i did romance anders first i hate him for lots of reasons.
Personally I prefer games where all romance option chars are romancible by all genders but like you said plopping my very masc cis char into the feminine role in a one for all romance is some bs.
But putting two romance paths on a single char would make that one person two romance npc's and limit options
Because my point was most devs making a plot relevant romance in an AAA game would just make it hetero pending the gender of your char.
And DA 2's everything suffered from severe time constraints. All things considered i would have expected them to nix gay romance options all together but they didn't, i only say this to give them their due credit cause for all its flaws DA2 isnt that bad.
Now that that is out of the way i have to say the only viable romances in my opinion were Fenris's and Meril's. Isabella was a hard no for me as well for the same reason, not that being a sloot is bad but its jarring for her to suddenly be all in love like that should have been branded as casual. Characterization above all. Avalines.. i don't think i ever did hers actually... and while i did romance anders first i hate him for lots of reasons.
Personally I prefer games where all romance option chars are romancible by all genders but like you said plopping my very masc cis char into the feminine role in a one for all romance is some bs.
But putting two romance paths on a single char would make that one person two romance npc's and limit options
To put in something new to the topic, i hope they do a good job in Cyberpunk2077. I mean its CDprojekt but this will be a first for them where the romance isn't already written in.
And since they said it will be a mature game, hope the romance options are equally good for all genders.
And since they said it will be a mature game, hope the romance options are equally good for all genders.
Duuuuude duuude dude that game... that mutha fucking game yes... omg yes. Ok CDPR and cyberpunk, I'm here for it I love for it I want it bad even without the proposed romance system.
But yes you're absolutely right Cyberpunk 2077 is a brand new hat for CDPR in far more ways than one but as far as the romance system goes I believe they'll do good. This is simply based on their reputation tho because unlike other studios they do the work without the fanfare or bs meddling. By that I mean we already know they won't shy away from adult content plus they have proven that they want to get things right. So they do the work and have a finished game when they release it which includes optional content like romancing an npc. Of course I am silently hoping they don't fall into that DA2 trap of making masc and fem relationships with the same npcs an insert-character-here affair... at least not for everyone... but i digress, I hope they do well.
Also has anyone played Assassin's Creed Odyssey's romance system? I'm looking up stuff about the gay side of it rn but I haven't gotten the game yet.
Two things to add:
-First of all games have a public, for me what shouldn't be done is what happened with Dragon age 2, worst romances I have ever seen, another thing is that while I'm hetero I did romances like my male MC and Bull in Inquisition, just for the laughs. To tell you the truth I would be happy if the romances aren't the ultimate shit in that if you do it or not... it doesn't matter, just one tiny scene at the end as a reward and perhaps a mention in the endings. Perhaps just giving it more importance would be enough, like occasional special actions taken by the boyfriend/girlfriend of the character, unique relationship talks that may happen sometimes, other companions commenting on your relationship with x and perhaps even when you meet a certain character if they have a family relationship with the love interest a special talk and different dialogues.
You know... giving it a bit of life, I started to play h games because I was disappointed on romances from normal games. Even so in H games I have the opposite problem, the romance part is dead and the interactions are full of sex. Too many plain characters that are too free about sex, just my opinnion and it's perfectly normal to like it.
-About Cyberpunk 2077... I have high expectations and truly hope that the game enters themes such as sexuality, gender... it's the perfect game for that, but I kind of wonder if they will have enough courage, but I will have faith.
-First of all games have a public, for me what shouldn't be done is what happened with Dragon age 2, worst romances I have ever seen, another thing is that while I'm hetero I did romances like my male MC and Bull in Inquisition, just for the laughs. To tell you the truth I would be happy if the romances aren't the ultimate shit in that if you do it or not... it doesn't matter, just one tiny scene at the end as a reward and perhaps a mention in the endings. Perhaps just giving it more importance would be enough, like occasional special actions taken by the boyfriend/girlfriend of the character, unique relationship talks that may happen sometimes, other companions commenting on your relationship with x and perhaps even when you meet a certain character if they have a family relationship with the love interest a special talk and different dialogues.
You know... giving it a bit of life, I started to play h games because I was disappointed on romances from normal games. Even so in H games I have the opposite problem, the romance part is dead and the interactions are full of sex. Too many plain characters that are too free about sex, just my opinnion and it's perfectly normal to like it.
-About Cyberpunk 2077... I have high expectations and truly hope that the game enters themes such as sexuality, gender... it's the perfect game for that, but I kind of wonder if they will have enough courage, but I will have faith.
My bestie has AC Odyssey, but he's playing Cassandra because he hates dude skirts. Can't say about the romance, but he has had sex with multiple people's spouses, apparently.
I hope CP2077 has good romance and sex, and hopefully I can at least headcanon being trans. Overall though, the game looks phenomenal, and I can't wait for it.
I hope CP2077 has good romance and sex, and hopefully I can at least headcanon being trans. Overall though, the game looks phenomenal, and I can't wait for it.
See that's what I want. While I would prefer something huge and indepth all it really needs to be is fun
I can't imagine it not being huge and in-depth, I know what you mean. I really hope they hav bows though, and proper melee, that would be the best.
As a broke person, all i can hope for is AC:O gets cracked. I can't afford the full price, even if the game looks awesome.
And i think they did good on romances from what i read, but then again tastes are subjective.
As for cyberpunk i am hyped, the combat looks fun tough i hope there is more to melee than just assassination style stuff, but its CDPR this is the game if they get right will make them gods among devs.
Or at least as close to in the eyes of gamers since Witcher 3 made them big, this would make them giants.
Just hope there is alot of quality gay romance's, idk why but i enjoy gay romances far more in games.
And i think they did good on romances from what i read, but then again tastes are subjective.
As for cyberpunk i am hyped, the combat looks fun tough i hope there is more to melee than just assassination style stuff, but its CDPR this is the game if they get right will make them gods among devs.
Or at least as close to in the eyes of gamers since Witcher 3 made them big, this would make them giants.
Just hope there is alot of quality gay romance's, idk why but i enjoy gay romances far more in games.
My problem with cyberpunk is that people are getting somehow way way overhyped
I love CD Project Red, always got the witcher games during their pre-sales
But i feel people may be expecting way too much from them each time i see people talking about it.
I never ever felt necessary the whole talk about banging a robot or being gay or trans. and dont get me wrong i'd love me some more gay couples in AAA games
But like what it would affect gameplay/story ? Would it be like ME where you unlock some kind of special mission?
I'm more interested in the world, because so far this whole thing just looks like a random flavor to the game.
I love CD Project Red, always got the witcher games during their pre-sales
But i feel people may be expecting way too much from them each time i see people talking about it.
I never ever felt necessary the whole talk about banging a robot or being gay or trans. and dont get me wrong i'd love me some more gay couples in AAA games
But like what it would affect gameplay/story ? Would it be like ME where you unlock some kind of special mission?
I'm more interested in the world, because so far this whole thing just looks like a random flavor to the game.
I don't think there's such a thing as overhype for CP2077. It's ambitious as hell, sure, but I really think CDPR can pull it off. It's world, it's combat, and hopefully it's characters are looking to be amazing, even if it probably won't come until 2020.
What I don't understand is hype for Red Dead Redemption 2. It looks uninteresting. I put down the previous game because of disinterest, and I'm glad I didn't buy it. The GTA series is also meh, I don't get why people love it so much.
I also don't understand why people are hating on Death Stranding just because we don't have a lot of info on it, because it looks like it has a really interesting story.
Run around in million dollar cars and commit mass murder. Then bang strippers and hookers.
The game is incredibly satisfying for people that have a deep-seated need for destruction and self-destruction.
I have over 3000 hours logged in GTA: Online and if it wasn't for their current attitude toward microtransactions and the amount of cheaters I'd still be playing it.
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To me CDPR has proven that they will do what it takes to achieve a quality game. That being said this hype train is honestly going a little too fast people are crazy about it but, again, this is not just because the game looks good but because CDPR has proven that they are responsible with this sort of thing. They've even taken measures to slow the hype train down by saying "hey this game may change" and when they talk about features within the game they are very, very transparent and do not try to sell the consumer. So I feel whatever promotional material they release they will be responsible with it and won't someday become another Todd Howard (whom i love but cmon guy) or, worse, a peter moleneux.
Now, concerning a romance system specifically, I believe the conversation does need to happen. Not just because I'm a gay but because CDPR has proven to listen to their fan base and independently check online communities to see what we say. Personally, though, I am waiting with baited breath.
We know they won't do what AC:O did and handwave the actual sex. Their game is gonna be rated M so they can do whatever they want although I doubt they'll go as far as showing penetration. We know there will be full frontal nudity. It won't be hard to make the more one night stand-esque encounters engaging all you need is a bit of nudity and some semi-ok dialogue. But nobody expects much from a one nighter.
For the more involved romances I have to admit I'm a little skeptical because heterosexual romances aren't like homosexual romances. Sure we want the same things but two men, two women and two opposite sex sex partners are going to flirt differently, move differently... there's so much nuance to these things that it isn't hard to see why devs get it wrong because instead of developing the character they focus too much on the surface differences between different types of couples or they take their favorite, self insert characters and make them entirely straight because story duh...
but like... if we don't talk about it how will devs even know what we want?
You're on your own there buddy I come to GTA for the story and the freedom. Sure there's that fast and furious life style but like omg they have some fantastic writers especially in GTA V. The comedy, the drama and the action... it's awesome.
And concerning Red Dead I hope I can be gay in that mf too but I hella doubt it... even though any realistic recreation of cowboys should include more minorities and more gays cause that was high key, hella a thing.
Eh...I know it wasn't award winning stuff but ever since GTA4 it's gotten REALLY shallow. You can't even date people now. With GTA5 I felt like I had more freedom with my own custom character in GTA:O.
Of the three protags the only one I liked was Franklin because he was sort of a tabula rasa compared to Micheal and Trevor.
for freedom sure
but for story? no one ever plays a GTA for story is like someone saying "the quest/ story of Street Fighter is the reason they play that"
Personally, I don't find it to be shallow story wise. Its satire, it is an in-depth critique on the unrealistic portrayal and romanticization of the criminal life taken up a notch, using the interactivity of the medium to tell its story in a way that few other mediums are even capable of. You have these over the top, impossible scenarios mixed with a little social commentary combined with accessible gameplay... what is not to like?
I mean it's no witcher 3 and it is definitely not a me2... but I'd say quality wise the story is actually pretty solid. Especially if you take a second to look past the large-scale destruction and fan service to actually listen to what is going on. And honestly, even on a surface level, there is generally a decent character arc for the protag where they actually learn and grow. For this reason, I believe that Franklin was the real MC of GTA4. He learned how to be a better, larger-minded criminal but he also had to decide the fate of one of his friends. Unlike Trevor, Franklin (and to a lesser extent Michael) actually had some character growth. That and honestly the whole black guy from the hood thing will probably always resonate with me since I'm a black guy from the hood lol.
But seriously despite their flaws each GTA I've played has been a well-built world. Even listening to the radio and hearing the larger than life fictional radio DJs shout out some comedic non-sense that highlights the evils of commercialism, the prison system or the unlawful overreaching of law enforcement... but also they don't marry themselves to the political/social commentary, sometimes its just fun.
Also fuck their romance system it is literal trash meant to incentivize the shitty mini-games. Then again if they'd let me choose to date a dude I'd probably be up for it lol (joking). Truthfully though I like that the romance system takes you out of the main game and lets you do some side quests, chill and not be a violent piece of shit. It is just super fucking shallow and requires no effort.
O... K...? But I just said I do... so someone does...
And I'm hardly alone in that. Whenever a new GTA is released all the people I know are talking about the story, the twists and turns in it, the characters, the betrayals they didn't see coming, the friends they lost, the jokes, the parts that made them laugh out loud. Even with CJ who was, imo, one of the weakest MCs GTA has produced. But that was probably because of how heavily customizable he was.
I mean if you don't like it that's fine but lets not pretend like it's not the main draw of the game for many people who are actual fans of the series...
CJ was borderline silent protag but that's why I like him, it allowed the player to build their own CJ which is the same reason I like Franklin, he's got some baggage sure but not M & T -level baggage. Also the running gag of Franklin not getting paid for anything he did (people were essentially wasting his time) until the first heist had me in his corner. I KNOW THAT FEELING.
This also made me realize I do not like the 3 protags system in 5. They're all interesting individuals yeah, but I would have rather there was just focus on one character. Splitting up content between 3 protags means less content if you just want to play one guy.
Suikoden 3 had 3 protag too, but they made it work because since the start all stories are heavily connected.
If you started using the tribal boy, you'd feel sympathy for him due the attack of the soldiers
Then you'd use soldier woman, showing their side of all that murdering you just saw
And lastly there would be the mercenary leader, showing how they deal with all that's happening around while they travel
Through the whole game you work in chapters of all those 3, until the final act where they mix together after several problems. So sometimes you ended up worrying about doing something in a chapter thinking how it would affect the other protag
BTW all suikoden games are heavy on matters of Xenophobia and Racism akin to Dragon Age
Suikoden 2 is still the best one of the series, it happens 2 years after events of Suikoden 1, which you can load your saved game into Suikoden 2 for some special story events.
Suikoden 1 is pretty short 12-16 hours, and its worthwhile to play before jumping into Suikoden 2 so you can understand some nice connections, but it's not really needed.
I believe all of them except for 5 you can find on PSN, the true canon series are 1-2-3, 4-5 are prequels.
No romance options in any of them, but alot, really ALOT of bromances around
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I thought it was well established that Dante's orientation is "permanently broke because of dumb shit." That man doesn't have time for the bed tango when he needs to keep slaying overtime just to pay the bills Trish and Lady saddle him with. Or his anime-only temporary roommate.
Back to romances though, I really appreciate what the Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel is doing. While, yes, you're playing from a straight guy's perspective (Rean is adorable though. And coming from me, that's high praise), but it's really well done in that you only slowly, gradually get the person you pick closer to you. It feels like very natural progression in the way it's written, to the point where I encountered my Rune Factory problem: Caring so much for more than one character that it somehow felt wrong to choose only one. Because all of them are awesome (well, except Alisa. I just don't like characters like her).
I still think picking Fie was the right choice for myself, although Laura and Emma are great, too. Towa would've been super sweet as well, and I'm STILL not positive a certain other character can't be romanced (but I'm two games in and so far, nothing...so I can't even confirm if I just did something wrong or if it's truly impossible). I wouldn't say the romance has a big influence on how the game plays, but affection levels do change some dialogue here and there (and getting jumped on by my Fie at the start of the second game due to my dedication to her was amazing to watch).
Hey I have been playing Assassins Odyseey at my friends place, and been at it for like 3 days now. xD His GF wants to kill us both by now.
Anyway, the romances in there are just a few flirty lines and then a fade to black screen, most involved one by now had me flirt with a girl 3 quests in a row only to end with a fade to night sky full of stars.
So yeah not the greatest but not the worst, but the RPG side of things with choices having consequences is there, things change based on what you pick in certain quests.
If you kill some targets without doing their quest lines if you so feel like.
Gotta say its weird and funny playing a single player game with 2 people, he plays for an hour then i do and we swap, playing the 1 character its like she's got a split personality. 3 days of that now. xD
"are terrible" is the end of that sentence.
Talk to character 3 times to get fuk
Somehow it's gone backwards from games like FF7 or the D&D PC games in the 90s and 00s.
Talk to character 3 times to get fuk
Somehow it's gone backwards from games like FF7 or the D&D PC games in the 90s and 00s.
And yeah, there are some Jerps doing fun things with romance progressions.
When I played the first Atelier game (eternal mana, I think?) I ran into this little side plot with a random shopkeeper girl, something that'd be super easy to miss, that blossoms into this ongoing romance plot, one that progressed whenever you want to visit her shop) where she develops a crush on the hero and tries to win him over in spite of the main girl from the main plot butting in. It was cute and better done than many main plot romances and it was just this unmarked side plot tucked away for you to discover.
AAA games never have time for progression or subtlety or anything, they're trying to cram everything into a 6 hour campaign (that ends by stumbling into a clumsy sequel hook since they assume you're not even going to finish the game anyway and it's gotta be a franchise) because they focused tested and found that the average schmuck that buys games loses interest at exactly 5:59:59.
Well to be honest they never said romance was important to them to make it soooo deep as biowares.
I dont mind it its a nice distraction and added some spicy replies to certain characters questlines, you can choose to be flirty and not fuck them.
If you go into AC:Odyseey expecting a proper romance thing you will be dissapointed. I mean Paige in TiTS is a better romance than theirs.
Bioware's one of the main offenders of the talk to them three times laziness.
Or at least the hollowed out husk that was once a decent RPG developer is. By the time Mass Effect rolled around it had effectively reached critical mass.
Or at least the hollowed out husk that was once a decent RPG developer is. By the time Mass Effect rolled around it had effectively reached critical mass.
Well then i don't get what you consider a good romance, its easy to just say everything and everyone in AAA gaming sucks and is bad. Give me what you consider good.
Don't get me wrong we can disagree and like what we like, just wondering what's good in your opinion.
I mean yeah technically but like... As far as romance systems go DAO had the same thing so the 3 convo = relationship/smex is really just the result of them resting on their laurels. In ME2 the loyalty missions added some spice to it but it wasn't that different
How do you think the system could be improved btw?