Mhen'ga Content Discussion (GENERAL)

[PyrateHyena]

I have to agree partially with IVIisty on the grimdark aspect. Mhen'ga currently does not have that much of it, and the bit there is, you can safely ignore. Myrellion on the other hand is almost nothing (except for maybe Liliana), but conflict and overarching darkness. If you happen to like most of the characters, that does not need to be a problem, but for me it certainly is. I do not even like to visit myrellion anymore. Do not get me wrong, I would also like more questlines for Mhen'ga and am looking forward to any addition, but... but... but... I dunno what to say. Except that I like Mhen'ga, great mead, great people, great exploration, the greatest mobs with great content (IMO) and a great feeling.


I could repeat more of what others have said before me, but I won't do that.

 

[Couch]

I have never added something purely because I thought the zone wasn't gritty enough, and it frustrates me greatly that people have carried away that impression.

It's more a tragedy of the commons thing, combined with the tendency of most people to accentuate the negative.  A little bit of dark content goes miles in affecting the tone of an area, and it's very hard for any amount of bright content to make up for it.  When you have a lot of authors, each wanting to craft their own conflicts and stories, it's easy for the net result to come out worse than the individuals intended.


The setting of Exalted is a good example because it's one the game developers acknowledged when they started the current edition: too many authors, wanting to make their little place more important by giving the PCs a big problem there to solve, made a world where everything is going wrong and the PC circle is the only group of people in the whole world doing anything about any of it.  The net result is that everything feels hopeless.


TiTS isn't quite at that level, though CoC certainly neared it, but it's worth noting.  With the sheer darkness of Myrellion, a lot of players feel attached to the relative tranquillity of Mhen'ga as a bright spot to feel relaxed in.  It shouldn't be surprising to you that people get defensive accordingly when faced with what looks like a threat to that status.

 

[Nonesuch]

...

For me the problem you're highlighting there is not darkness, but lack of resolution. Upon all of the planets you are a tourist, uninvolved and disconnected from the locals' issues, there only to complete your farcically first world quest before leaving it in your dust. The difference is that Tarkus and Myrellion are piles of shit whilst Mhen'ga is a Garden of Eden. It stands out to the player, who given this is a power fantasy is expecting a large amount of agency, that there is nothing you can do to help the situation on the former two planets. I think a lot of the problems people have with Myrellion will dissipate once there's one or two ways of ending the stand-off.


I chose Mhen'ga to experiment with developing a planet's story and allowing the player greater agency in it exactly because it had a virginal atmosphere that would appeal to a sense of shaping something fresh and new, without the obvious weight of history which affects the other two. I would also like to note that it was not me that took Mhen'ga pure innocent maidenhead with the phallus of corporate exploitation in the first place. I did not write Haswell. I did not develop the Milky Forest.

 

[Dark67titan]

I think the only other plant that isn't dark is probrobly uveto due to the fact that it isn't being terrorised by the antagonist of system shock/ bomb that can literally tear the plant in half or the chance of getting nuked   

 

[JohanLitvisk]

I think the only other plant that isn't dark is probrobly uveto due to the fact that it isn't being terrorised by the antagonist of system shock/ bomb that can literally tear the plant in half or the chance of getting nuked   

Uveto is also completely unfinished, so...


Don't cross your fingers.

 

[EmperorG]

It will. A lot of Uveto's outdoors mechanics (like storms) aren't in yet. Uveto had the unfortunate luck of starting implementation just as Lead Writer Mans contracted the ded for half a year. Lots of stuff is missing or placeholder there for now.

Try to avoid contracting the ded, I hear they have horrible interest rates on their deals. 

I'm easily provoked! And very passionate! I'm sooorrryy~~! D: D:

Boo!  :frogsiren:

 

[Couch]

things

You seem to be taking my words with more aggression than I intended.  Perhaps Misty was right about the avatar; let's see if this one's any better.


Lack of resolution is a partial problem, to be sure, but I won't like Myrellion any more than I currently do after it gets resolution paths added because I don't like any of the factions after all that's been written about them.  It's not enough for there to be resolutions if those resolutions don't feel like they've made anything better than they were before the storyline was added.  And even if there are, if Captain Steele has to run around and resolve big far-reaching problems all over the place, that gives the impression that this is how everything is everywhere and only our hero alone can keep the galaxy from self-immolating.


To be clear, I don't think TiTS in general is at that point, nor do I think the plantation and its quest push it too far in that direction on their own.  But I don't think you should be surprised that it makes people nervous.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

I have never added something purely because I thought the zone wasn't gritty enough, and it frustrates me greatly that people have carried away that impression.

Nothing like this has been said or even speculated about, NS. Always thought of you as being more thick-skinned and aloof when it comes to such matters, though I can certainly see why a misrepresentation of one's work can be a really frustrating experience.

For me the problem you're highlighting there is not darkness, but lack of resolution. Upon all of the planets you are a tourist, uninvolved and disconnected from the locals' issues, there only to complete your farcically first world quest before leaving it in your dust. The difference is that Tarkus and Myrellion are piles of shit whilst Mhen'ga is a Garden of Eden. It stands out to the player, who given this is a power fantasy is expecting a large amount of agency, that there is nothing you can do to help the situation on the former two planets. I think a lot of the problems people have with Myrellion will dissipate once there's one or two ways of ending the stand-off.

But the issues that Couch and Misty have pointed out also stem from the fact that in many instances the situation looks hopeless; in those moments it seems that if things were left to develop on their own, the result would inevitably be the maximum amount of exploitation and suffering.


And a big part of that is the distinct lack of mentioning of people or organizations that make it their business to care and to get shit done in order to help all the people that are constantly grinded into toothpaste by the corporate machines. Which is why, for all the flaws and potential radicalism you will most likely grant him, Lah is such a good addition to the game. And one of the reasons why the potential peaceful resolution is so damn satisfying, since it will involve even more UGC citizens (in that case Esbeth' locals) working together and helping to show corporation a middle finger.


Thank you for that, Nonesuch.

 

[EmperorG]

But the issues that Couch and Mysty have pointed out also stem from the fact that in many instances the situation looks hopeless; in those moments it seems that if things were left to develop on their own, the result would inevitably be the maximum amount of exploitation and suffering.


And a big part of that is the distinct lack of mentioning of people or organizations that make it their business to care and to get shit done in order to help all the people that are constantly grinded into toothpaste by the corporate machines.

Well there is that email you get from the "Help save Xeno-princess" folks, though most would chalk it up to spam/parody of hippies, it does show someone is at least trying to do the right thing.

 

[Galgano]

if Captain Steele has to run around and resolve big far-reaching problems all over the place, that gives the impression that this is how everything is everywhere and only our hero alone can keep the galaxy from self-immolating.

There's this one game that I really enjoy. I don't know if you've played it, but it's called The Last Sovereign. It's a text-heavy porn game like TiTS although it's made in RPG Maker, and there's an event in particular I want to talk about. The event in question is a summit between various factions. You aren't the one making the decisions, but your actions during the summit can influence people to change their votes and thereby change the outcome of the summit. If something like that were to occur, then you wouldn't be solving some big far-reaching problems all over the place. There are other people interested in the fate of the planet this way. Although, Mhenga may not be the place for such a thing to occur.

 

[EmperorG]

There's this one game that I really enjoy. I don't know if you've played it, but it's called The Last Sovereign. It's a text-heavy porn game like TiTS although it's made in RPG Maker, and there's an event in particular I want to talk about. The event in question is a summit between various factions. You aren't the one making the decisions, but your actions during the summit can influence people to change their votes and thereby change the outcome of the summit. If something like that were to occur, then you wouldn't be solving some big far-reaching problems all over the place. There are other people interested in the fate of the planet this way. Although, Mhenga may not be the place for such a thing to occur.

Myrellion would be the better planet to have such a meeting, since it could cover several issues that the Reds and Golds have between each other. Of course for it to be like TLS there would have to be a shit-ton of politicking and Steele would need to be rather clever to pull off much.


(Loved that meeting between the factions, the one with the Lust Lord and his compatriots was also fun.)

 

[Nonesuch]

I'm sorry if I got needlessly defensive on Friday. When somebody says "God I hope <thing you've worked hard on> doesn't get into the game" after you've finished it, it automatically makes you bristle, but I should have taken it more professionally.

Lack of resolution is a partial problem, to be sure, but I won't like Myrellion any more than I currently do after it gets resolution paths added because I don't like any of the factions after all that's been written about them.  It's not enough for there to be resolutions if those resolutions don't feel like they've made anything better than they were before the storyline was added.  And even if there are, if Captain Steele has to run around and resolve big far-reaching problems all over the place, that gives the impression that this is how everything is everywhere and only our hero alone can keep the galaxy from self-immolating.


To be clear, I don't think TiTS in general is at that point, nor do I think the plantation and its quest push it too far in that direction on their own.  But I don't think you should be surprised that it makes people nervous.

Isn't that a stereotypical problem with RPGs in general, though? If people could solve their problems before the hero waltzes into town, there wouldn't be much of a game. If people who represent agencies who want to solve the problem but can't are present, for the sake of showing that the world isn't completely passive and/or against you... you run the risk of unintentionally making them look even more feeble. Like a group of U.G.C. special ops who can't take out three deranged boob pirates in a box so get some playboy's sprog who happened to be in the area to do it for them, for instance.

And a big part of that is the distinct lack of mentioning of people or organizations that make it their business to care and to get shit done in order to help all the people that are constantly grinded into toothpaste by the corporate machines. Which is why, for all the flaws and potential radicalism you will most likely grant him, Lah is such a good addition to the game. And one of the reasons why the potential peaceful resolution is so damn satisfying, since it will involve even more UGC citizens (in that case Esbeth' locals) working together and helping to show corporation a middle finger.

Lah has to be flawed, otherwise there's no reason to fight against him. But yes, I hope through this quest to show other people fighting for more altruistic/common good reasons.

 

[Couch]

Isn't that a stereotypical problem with RPGs in general, though? If people could solve their problems before the hero waltzes into town, there wouldn't be much of a game. If people who represent agencies who want to solve the problem but can't are present, for the sake of showing that the world isn't completely passive and/or against you... you run the risk of unintentionally making them look even more feeble. Like a group of U.G.C. special ops who can't take out three deranged boob pirates in a box so get some playboy's sprog who happened to be in the area to do it for them, for instance.

I think there's ways to find a balance.  With the Deepsea Lab, what I went with was having it be noted that a trained hazard team is in fact on its way and would deal with the threat if Captain Steele didn't.  Steele jumps in to handle it personally partially out of a sense of urgency, arguing maybe the hazard team won't make it in time, but also kind of just to dickwave.  The dungeon turning into a horror show is basically karmic vengeance for their cockiness, though I'll admit I'm not the most skillful character writer so perhaps it doesn't come across as well as I'm picturing it.


There's also the method of showing people doing things successfully while Steele watches.  Dane's scene where you let him out of the cage in the Taivra fight, for instance, gives the player some evidence that he actually is a very strong and skillful fighter, whereas if he was just a boss that Steele beat up over and over it would quickly start making him look much weaker than he's supposed to be.  Putting Steele in a position where they get to see the UGC take care of business would do a lot to help improve their image.

 

[Savin]

Putting Steele in a position where they get to see the UGC take care of business would do a lot to help improve their image.

To be fair, the UGC is supposed to be almost if not entirely ineffectual. The real world government it's based on couldn't even deal with 4,000 rebellious villagers until some privately funded an army to deal with them.


Rest of that post's spot on though.

 

[Milkman]

To be fair, the UGC is supposed to be almost if not entirely ineffectual. The real world government it's based on couldn't even deal with 4,000 rebellious villagers until some privately funded an army to deal with them.


Rest of that post's spot on though.

What government  is the UGC based on? 

 

[Krynh]

What government  is the UGC based on? 

Probably the US

 

[Savin]

What government  is the UGC based on? 

Probably the US

Yep. Specifically the Articles of Confederation, the predecessor to the actual United States. 

 

[Noob Salad]

When can I fuck my way to the top?

 

[Zavos]

I assume there will be some high ranking politicians eventually that we can dom.  A few bribes from our infinite Steele wealth later, and we can have anything we desire. 

 

[MESeele]

I do think the scale of conflict could use a rest. Two planets in and you're averting a planetary disaster (that you may have been responsible for). Since then most conflicts can result in inhabitable planets+. Myrellion can end up nuked (also caused by you), Tarkus AI can take over the galaxy (again unwittingly caused by you), and the new Halloween dungeon (I enjoyed it btw) seems to imply it results in a galaxy-wide infestation unless prevented. I read in a Savin thread that main storyline planets will number 10. If the ante keeps rising at this rate, anything less than personally saving the multiverse will seem anticlimactic. And if the ante simply remains where it is, the act gets old.


So a main planet not on the verge of catastrophe could be useful. Help some incompetent police foil a burglary/instigate a burglary to get to the probe, or investigate something (like Secret World's "do I seriously need to learn morse code for this quest!?"). Doesn't even have be necessary to reach the probe. Just something to do in that location. I do agree that not every mandatory situation needs to be dire. Hell, the probe could crash into a city of food-lovers, and PC needs to win a cook off to access it. Silly to the observer, but humorous that an in-world character can't help but be roped into it. I'm no writer, and I have no doubt that you guys will come up with more great stuff. Just... variety is the spice and all that.


As an aside, Nonesuch mentioned Jim's Milky Forest. I thought that was scrubbed with his departure. Is that still gonna be a thing?

 

[Ideo]

So before JimThermic left he wrote a vanae npc named Neiri and two bad endings involving the vanae. I made a copy of the docs before they were deleted, is anyone interested in them? Both pieces of content are complete, they just have a few typos. Neiri has some pregnancy content and two sex scenes which include variants for a pc with a vanae cock.


I would post a doc here but I am not sure if it is appropriate since the content does not belong to me. Should I make a google doc anyway? And in which subforum should I post it?

 

[Noob Salad]

Lots of us have copies of the doc. You can post them if you want though. No one's going to continue his work because anyone competent enough has other things to do. But hey, anyone (you included) is free to try.

 

[Dualitas]

To be fair, the UGC is supposed to be almost if not entirely ineffectual. The real world government it's based on couldn't even deal with 4,000 rebellious villagers until some privately funded an army to deal with them.

Well, damn, if that's the case, how did they even beat the Thraggen?

 

[Milkman]

Presumably the same way the US eventually grew into the monster it is today.

 

[crushogre]

One possible way of show that there are other competent problem solvers in the universe could be to have Steele arrive right at the end of some major conflict (preferably one in which the obviously good guys defeated the equally obviously bad guys) and rather than solving the issue they just help with some of the cleanup afterwards.

 

[Savin]

Well, damn, if that's the case, how did they even beat the Thraggen?

The Confederacy didn't. All of the individual allied governments under it did. 

 

[Dualitas]

The Confederacy didn't. All of the individual allied governments under it did. 

Mm.  Why am I not surprised? Are the UGC strictly peacekeepers or are they military, too?

 

[Savin]

Mm.  Why am I not surprised? Are the UGC strictly peacekeepers or are they military, too?

The Confederacy has a military force made up of elements sourced from national militaries (primarily the Terran-Space Coalition and the Ausar Federation), which is pretty much exclusively used as a peacekeeping force. Since virtually everything in the Warp-Gate connected galaxy falls under Confederate jurisdiction, there's not much of a cause for their to take a proper war-making role outside of possible Very Bad First Contacts during a Rush. Even then, in the event of a full-scale galactic war, the Confederacy would have to rely on the individual nations to do most of the fighting under their own flags, with the U.G.C. acting as a supreme command to keep everyone working together.

 

[Dualitas]

The Confederacy has a military force made up of elements sourced from national militaries (primarily the Terran-Space Coalition and the Ausar Federation), which is pretty much exclusively used as a peacekeeping force. Since virtually everything in the Warp-Gate connected galaxy falls under Confederate jurisdiction, there's not much of a cause for their to take a proper war-making role outside of possible Very Bad First Contacts during a Rush. Even then, in the event of a full-scale galactic war, the Confederacy would have to rely on the individual nations to do most of the fighting under their own flags, with the U.G.C. acting as a supreme command to keep everyone working together.

That explains things.  However, is there a timeline I can look at?


If you feel I'm going in too deep for a game, feel free to swat me away.


Also, since we're on the topic on the UGC...


@Nonesuch, if you don't mind me asking, would said UGC play any big part in your upcoming expansion?

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Ok, so UGC can't into military and sucks at law enforcement. 


Does this mean that any effective disaster or war relief effort to places like Tarkus or Myrellion should also come from non-government organizations like Space Red Oval or whatever?