Killing.

Status
Not open for further replies.

PyrateHyena

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2015
413
54
Harpy slut is making me feel bad about killing all those cunt snakes without a care in the world now. :(

Me too.


On another note, I don't really see what excessive killing sprees would add to the game, as well as the option to kill in general. It would have to be really well written and thought out stuff to make a kill interesting enough to be of a real value. Otherwise I promote a simple boot option (for the cuntsnakes as well).
 

Etis

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
2,497
258
The cunt snakes probably had lives, family, a future to look forward to. But then you just end their hopes and dreams by simply killing them (you monster).

Or worse, you can force them into sexual slavery, becoming their parasite and feasting on their happiness.

xD


I do agree with you there. Often when I played CoC I found that mercy was the better option as it never really were any drawbacks to it, as such I was always merciful. But sometimes killing is the only option, and I wouldn´t have anything against once or twice being put in such a difficult situation in this game. I also agree on the quality over quantity part. We shouldn´t be able to create an undertale genocide run...

Actually, mercy is bad option in CoC. Leaving demons alive is going into fuckup counter and leads to worse ending.
 

Nonesuch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 27, 2015
2,225
3,695
Or worse, you can force them into sexual slavery, becoming their parasite and feasting on their happiness.

That's like saying tapeworms are forced to keep you thin.

Actually, mercy is bad option in CoC. Leaving demons alive is going into fuckup counter and leads to worse ending.

Mercy is about morality, not pragmatism. If you hold yourself to a certain set of values in order to prove you are indeed a paragon of virtue, you don't put those values to one side because you decide it'll be more efficient in the long run. It's a reflection upon yourself and the faith you have in your own belief system. If you start off saying you will never kill an enemy when they are at your mercy, but then later decide you will make an exception for demons, that faith has been compromised and in a small but crucial way your enemy has beaten you. If you start off saying you will kill any enemy when it makes sense to do so... well alright, but now everyone else has to believe in your own impartial judgment rather than your morals, and that's a significantly different kettle of fish.


A case can be made for always exterminating CoC's demons, because like many stock villains they are by nature completely irredeemable, so the player never has to feel bad about ending them. The same cannot be said about any enemy so far encountered in TiTS. The likes of Faell and Carver are bad, but they do also have souls and don't necessarily lack empathy.
 

hawke56

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2016
122
18
I pretty much never kill anything in Fenoxos games. Not even the demons in CoC, even though they are soulless rape monsters. I don't know, it just doesn't sit right with me to pretty much execute a sentinent being, even if they are really irredeemable douchebags of the highest order. Then again I'm kind of a softy and never even managed to do a corrupt CoC playthrough or a Hard TiTs playthrough. I even try to tease all the enemies (except the ones resistant to lust obviously) into submission rather than beat them senseless. So personally I don't see any point in killing options. Especially not for characters, whose worst crime is catering to a fetish you don't like and/or disrespecting the player character.
 

Couch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
1,630
933
I'm not saying that every game should be F2. I'm saying that plot not has to be set on rails with fake forks which would converge immediately after. And, if player want to break the plot, you can as well allow him. After all, killing someone is quite obviously blocking possible future interactions. BTW, in CoC, even if you can't kill everyonw, you still can make many NPCs leave you for good which is essentionally same thing.

Writing and coding a plot that is not on rails, or that has forks which don't eventually converge, is fucking hard.
 

shadefalcon

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2015
1,658
984
Actually, mercy is bad option in CoC. Leaving demons alive is going into fuckup counter and leads to worse ending.

You sure? I don´t like the sound of that...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Savin

Master Analmander
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
6,259
10,225
You sure? I don´t like the sound of that...

Oh yeah. I keep pestering Adjatha about that in CoC&D, where he keeps saying "Oh, murdering people is bad! Even demons."


Well, every demon you don't kill in CoC adds up to a big "Fuck You" score. Get it too high and your character basically spends the rest of his natural life fighting the demons tooth and nail. 
 

shadefalcon

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2015
1,658
984
Oh yeah. I keep pestering Adjatha about that in CoC&D, where he keeps saying "Oh, murdering people is bad! Even demons."


Well, every demon you don't kill in CoC adds up to a big "Fuck You" score. Get it too high and your character basically spends the rest of his natural life fighting the demons tooth and nail. 

Damn...I guess I´ll have to create a new character and ruin my fingers from save scumming again...
 

The Observer

Scientist
FoE Mod
Aug 27, 2015
1,357
3,189
You sure? I don´t like the sound of that...

Again, think about it. Demons, canonically, have no soul. To redeem Lethice, one of the things you must have is a piece of Lethicite - I.E, someone else's soul. The number of demons doesn't actually go down, because you have to rip out another's soul, turning them into a demon, in order to redeem a demon.


That in turn ensures that the # of demons down the line don't actually go down, you're just shifting things around. Sometime, you need to kill someone.
 

CabalShadowBiscuit

Active Member
Aug 31, 2015
28
0
I don't even kill cuntsnake so... I don't really mind if killing is not a thing, and even if it's implemented, as long as its not mandatory, I am still fine with it.
 

Nonesuch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 27, 2015
2,225
3,695
U always have to kill demons and to make sure u do i have made the game so u dont get a happy ending if u didn't act like a 16 year old 3edgy5u throughout derpadaerrrrrrrrr

Please tell me this is not going to be a feature in subsequent games.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Magic Ted

Forum God
Moderator
Aug 26, 2015
744
478
Although letting the player murder their Cousin at a probe and then the rest of the game being in "Murderer" mode, where all the content suddenly gets really nondescript and shallow and the ending just has you getting arrested without disclosure would be funny and make a lot of people mad. So mad.
 

Nonesuch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 27, 2015
2,225
3,695
Wasn't an option to straight up ice that mofo on Mhen'ga, resulting in a sexy bad end of you being arrested and sent down for twenty years mooted at one point? Could even have you working on the plantation and discovering the healing power of the One now.
 

Wsan

Scientist
Creator
Jan 8, 2016
1,731
4,064
Although letting the player murder their Cousin at a probe and then the rest of the game being in "Murderer" mode, where all the content suddenly gets really nondescript and shallow and the ending just has you getting arrested without disclosure would be funny and make a lot of people mad. So mad.

I would absolutely be down to write an ending with the PC slipping into madness as the weight of what they've done crushes them. Think the book version of American Psycho but with more regret.
 

shadefalcon

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2015
1,658
984
Again, think about it. Demons, canonically, have no soul. To redeem Lethice, one of the things you must have is a piece of Lethicite - I.E, someone else's soul. The number of demons doesn't actually go down, because you have to rip out another's soul, turning them into a demon, in order to redeem a demon.


That in turn ensures that the # of demons down the line don't actually go down, you're just shifting things around. Sometime, you need to kill someone.

Well it makes sense. But I was kind of hoping for the mostly no killing playthrough.


I know it´s off topic, but would anyone who knows be so kind to tell me what affects the fuck up meter? (For ex. Getting slave Ceraph or sand succubus)

Although letting the player murder their Cousin at a probe and then the rest of the game being in "Murderer" mode, where all the content suddenly gets really nondescript and shallow and the ending just has you getting arrested without disclosure would be funny and make a lot of people mad. So mad.

I´m getting genocide vibes here. I believe the treated Steph Irson reaction, would pale in comparison to the mayhem this would cause...it would be quite a sight to behold >:D
 

FerrousFlint

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2016
114
8
In my opinion as long as it's not excessively brutal and obviously petty and has a greater impact than "hurr hurr, theyz dead", I'm okay with it. I mean with pirates, dangerous, unknown creatures, and  mercs/bounty hunters looking to bag themselves an heir to a multi-million dollar empire, sometimes you got to put a mofo down for good. Maybe some dichotomy between shooting some dickbag and an actual threat to one's life and well-being should be taken into account before giving a character motivation to shoot someone.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2015
2,407
506
Moscow, RF
Again, think about it. Demons, canonically, have no soul. To redeem Lethice, one of the things you must have is a piece of Lethicite - I.E, someone else's soul. The number of demons doesn't actually go down, because you have to rip out another's soul, turning them into a demon, in order to redeem a demon.


That in turn ensures that the # of demons down the line don't actually go down, you're just shifting things around. Sometime, you need to kill someone.

Problem is - none of this is apparent for the first two thirds of the main questline, if not more.
 

Malpha

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2016
437
437
Problem is - none of this is apparent for the first two thirds of the main questline, if not more.

I don't know, you run into the succubus and that one human guy in the desert pretty early. He literally asks your opinion on whether he should go demon or not and clearly says that it'd cost him his soul.

My dear succubus here is growing tired of our arrangement, and she wants me to give up the last of my humanity and become a demon like her. I’m not really sure I want to lose my soul, but at the same time, I know enough about their kind to know I’d REALLY enjoy being an incubus, if you know what I mean.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Starstruck

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2015
496
369
Yeah the chances of not triggering said sidequest while grinding exp in the desert or even just trying to find Tel'adre are astronomically low, more glaringly obvious though is if you blow up the factory Marae turns into a demon herself, her crystallized soul openly on display and if you mess up at that point she converts the champion too in an incredibly hot tentacle scene.


My point is, there's plenty of bad ends, sidequests and idle chatter that makes the whole process of becoming a demon quite clear well before mid-game.
 

hawke56

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2016
122
18
Still the whole "demons are absoluely evil and should be killed at all times" is kind of poorly built up. Mostly since you don't even get the chance to kill most of the ones you meet and simply knock them out/tease them into submission. Only a very few selected ones in the dungeons are killable. Why exatly are only those an absolute must kill? Then there's even a few demons, who are perfectly civil and never cause you any trouble whatsoever (and don't seem to so so do anyone else either) like Sean or Lilium, futher undermining the whole point.
 

Starstruck

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2015
496
369
Civil or not, they're still a corrupting presence. Sean just doesn't broadcast his activities, and Lilium does it without even trying. I should add that I don't necessarily consider it a good thing to kill these two if given the chance however. Yes the demonic taint must be purged without a trace if you're to save Mareth, but it's already sunken so deep in hedonistic depravity that it might be beyond redemption.
 

Darkwarpalg6

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
414
160
Reverse Undertale. Regardless of how they act, it's in their nature (for lack of a better term) to corrupt everything they see, man, mineral, or vegetable. The build up? You're on a tainted world, you're the sole voice of resistance in a world that is almost entirely cowed with most small pockets of uncorrupted populations hiding for as long as they can, the world's own prime deity is forced to choke on sperm pumped out from those who were captives from your village. At this point, any mercy expressed is bound to come back and bite you.
 

hawke56

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2016
122
18
Yes the demonic taint must be purged without a trace if you're to save Mareth

That would probably involve killing everyone that wasn't pure Jojo or a bee-girl. And while I'd gladly welcome our new ovipositioning bee overlords under different circumstances the whole genocide thing beforehand makes it a little unsexy as far as I'm concerned.

Reverse Undertale. Regardless of how they act, it's in their nature (for lack of a better term) to corrupt everything they see, man, mineral, or vegetable. The build up? You're on a tainted world, you're the sole voice of resistance in a world that is almostntirely cowed with most small pockets of uncorrupted populations hiding for as long as they can, the world's own prime deity is forced to choke on sperm pumped out from those who were captives from your village. At this e point, any mercy expressed is bound to come back and bite you.

Except as I said before mercy is still the default. Most demons you simply let go after defeating them automatically. The random Imp encounters gets knocked out not killed, Vapulas gang gets disabandened without killing her, Ceraph is only enslaveable and not killable after defeating her enough and the list goes on. It's only the few selected demons, that are killable and only those come back to bite you if you show mercy. It's completely arbitrary for the most part.
 

CallistheCalloused

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2015
69
26
Ooh boy a controversial debate topic? I love these things!


Killing isn't necessarily out of place in these games, hell it's actually not even that uncommon. MGQ for example, has death in it many of the lose scenes result in Luka's death after being raped(Some of which he's actually EATEN ALIVE) rather than just enslavement, games like Artifical Academy have yandere's who if you cheat on them will murder you or the person you cheated on them with....or both if they don't get caught after the first kill. The Rance games have killing in them(Rance gives 0 fucks about anyone that doesn't have a cunt between their legs and actually kills a bunch of people in the process of 'saving' girls and usually taking advantage of them. I'm sure there's plenty others. Just generally you aren't able to kill potentially sexable individuals because obviously then you can't see the sexytimes....unless it covers a necrophilia fetish or has undead characters but let's not think too hard on that for now.


in CoC's case killing would be perfectly in line with the harsh and freaky world. Like being in the world of Conan the barbarian but with even MORE sex and drunken orgies and if it had turned out like that I'd have been fine with that. You're dumped into a world where morality is nearly nonexistent and law enforcement isn't really a thing in most places. It's actually odd that there is as little death as there is taking into account things like corruption and minimalist morality it's astounding you don't randomly stumble across rapes and/or murders regularly. I mean the demons aren't going around murdering everyone simply because of lethicite apparently requiring you still be alive to be able to be extracted...since I'm pretty sure dead people can't give in to corruption anymore....well except maybe Shouldra but that's a whole other thing.  Everyone else though? there's nothing stopping them from killing each other really.


My CoC characters were pretty varied but my most played char was a brute named Minorous who's idea of problem solving was just beat the unholy hell out of things if they were male and in his way and mounting any female and plowing her till whatever she was bitching about gave way to insensate moans and panting,usually impregnating them in the process(he was highly virile). He was a big(7'9") bull horned mountain of muscle that would've had no problem putting people in the dirt with his minotaur axe or warhammer and in the rare instance a kill option was available it made perfect sense for him to kill a thing that was a problem, except the harpy queen because he'd have rather bred her and built that army.....but I digress. The point is when the option came up I followed what I felt my character would do in that world and I often played more of a barbarian type char. Even my females tended to be aggressive swordswomen what few spellcasters I had probably would've preferred a capture or subjugation option but hey that's not a option usually either.

  Regardless of how they act, it's in their nature (for lack of a better term) to corrupt everything they see, man, mineral, or vegetable.  you're the sole voice of resistance in a world that is almost entirely cowed with most small pockets of uncorrupted populations hiding for as long as they can

No you're not. The Sand Witches are actively building an army, the Harpy queen was building a army....till Helia decided she had to die to satisfy her anger. There ARE groups of resistance you just don't get to see them fight the demons and some of the demons are quite indifferent.Such as the one who opens a shop outside zetaz lair, Or Vapula who pretty much gives up all allegiance to lethice in favor of you if you recruit her. Sure it's true some of the demons are that way, but this only actually seems to be true of the omnibus class demons the lower ranked demons behave much more like people albeit constantly horny omnisexual people but people. It's never really made clear what it is about sex that allows lethicite to form/be stolen. Only implied that some form of submission or giving in to pleasure and basically willfully letting go of it can it be taken. 

Again, think about it. Demons, canonically, have no soul. To redeem Lethice, one of the things you must have is a piece of Lethicite - I.E,someone else's soul. The number of demons doesn't actually go down, because you have to rip out another's soul, turning them into a demon, in order to redeem a demon.


That in turn ensures that the # of demons down the line don't actually go down, you're just shifting things around. Sometime, you need to kill someone.



Or...you could simply find the lethicite that belongs to Lethice....It's probably still around somewhere since she was the first one to discover how to make it by doing it to herself iirc. I doubt she let anyone else use it and odds are she'd have it stored somewhere. But really the question of what happens to all the massed lethicite the demons already have is the elephant in the room, do you just cram lethicite into demons regardless of who they belonged to to 'redeem' them? Is it even possible to put a lethicite back in a body much less one it didn't originally come from? There's no reason to assume you'd have to kill someone to get a lethicite to redeem a demon. they've got alot of it it's just a matter of using their stockpiles and returning those souls to their bodies(the ones that still have bodies to go to) because remember most of the demon horde is the people of mareth at this point. Doing so would save the world and reduce the demons to a managable number if it could be done on a large scale with some sort of spell.....like the one lethice is supposed to have used to begin with to start this mess(can't remember if that story of it being a spell gone horribly wrong was canon or not but I remember she's supposed to have nabbed a bunch of souls at once at the beginning)


Now on the subject of the other game:


In TiTs however killing is more of a risk, there IS law, hell you're constantly brushing up against legalities throughout the game between pirates, illegal mods, drugs and wanted criminals like the two doctors on tarkus. It's clear that if you break the rules there's potential for consequence in the world of TiTS.  So it makes sense for simply murdering your enemies not to be your first choice if a choice at all. It wouldn't make sense for a character like Steele who's got oh so much to lose to risk it all by going around murdering people unless he could justify it as self defense. Very few things legitimately try to kill you aside from pirates and robots. So it's more out of place here unless there was an outlet for Steele to become some kind of Criminal or form a criminal network. which there isn't....at least not at present. In TiTs more lighthearted world murder and death don't fit as well as they do in the wild world of Marae. That doesn't mean there's no room for it at all...there's lots of realllllly dark spots if you squint right or think too hard about it but the game intentionally seems to avoid those or letting you think too much about them. From what the doctor on mhenga is doing with his 'test subjects' after you capture them for him to, what the hell is really going on on new texas given at least one character openly warns you not to trust them and another admits a scientist mysteriously disappearred and then there's those icecream girls........don't even get me started on myrellion, which is the one place where deaths could work because you're dealing primarily with soldiers. I imagine there will be killing here and there in TiTs eventually....especially if quests keep having you run afoul of the black void pirates, kill orders are going to go out sooner or later and at that point it's take out whoever gave the order or deal with assassins/pirate attacks for forever.


Then again and I only just thought of this but there ARE things like the cuntsnakes and mimbranes which the PC remorselessly murders because no law protects questionably sentient wildlife from being murdered as long as they're parasites apparently......Soooooooo there's that. If it's a parasite murdering is totally ok in TiTS.....Though I guess we'll have to wait on a "Kill it with fire" option and obligatory parasite cleansing flamethrower.
 

CallistheCalloused

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2015
69
26
TLDR: CoC:Killing's fine and probably should've been done more in a world with so little rules/morality being a smut game does not garuntee there won't be char deaths(Such as games that have yanderes), demons could've been saved if anyone had given the plot more than passing thought while banging everything in sight, and realistically there probably should've been an option to subjugate more often. 


In Tits however it doesn't fit as well because of the presence of law, and Steele having far far more to lose by being imprisoned for criminal activity. There's no reason for steele to kill anything except possibly for self defense.....unless it's a parasite. Because Fuck parasites. Steele could kill those while laughing madly and brandishing a flamethrower and still probably go unpunished.


that's...about the short of it i think. Explanations buried amid my rambling in earlier post.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.