If CoC2 was real what God or Godess would you serve/follow?

[wery12345]

Like, the Brotherhood isn't really a good organization, but the core concept, that technology should be kept out of the hands of those who would abuse it,

I probably should have added I always support the brotherhood so this is honestly why I used the comparison.

That all started because of irresponsible magicians in Estelore creating a portal, rather than opening one which existed normally, which let the wraiths in.

True, but the aggressive way they seem to do it is not the way to do it(kinda like fallout 4s brotherhood lol), while your goal is noble the way you do it isnt, which only will make more enemies in the long run. Can you really say a your goal is a noble one if the road was paved by the blood of those who were a contradiction of your faith? By all means the champs very existence is one of those to kill and prevent from spreading, a soul that is bathed in the energy of another world, malleable then any of the(millions?) of souls on savvara is quite the "oh fuck" for what her goal is. Would not be surprised if she gets mad if the champ gave there soul to the other 7.

 

[Burnerbro]

I probably should have added I always support the brotherhood so this is honestly why I used the comparison.


True, but the aggressive way they seem to do it is not the way to do it(kinda like fallout 4s brotherhood lol), while your goal is noble the way you do it isnt, which only will make more enemies in the long run. Can you really say a your goal is a noble one if the road was paved by the blood of those who were a contradiction of your faith? By all means the champs very existence is one of those to kill and prevent from spreading, a soul that is bathed in the energy of another world, malleable then any of the(millions?) of souls on savvara is quite the "oh fuck" for what her goal is. Would not be surprised if she gets mad if the champ gave there soul to the other 7.

Until we see her mage hunters in action and can judge their methods, I'd rather give the Goth Snek goddess the benefit of the doubt.

There is a lot of ground to cover between the initial mandate that she seems to give out of "secure the forbidden knowledge and anyone abusing it" and the excesses an overzealous inquisition murdering anyone whose magic chakras look funny.

Though this particular turn of the discussion makes me wonder if Nareva's followers and the goddess herself butt heads often with Keros and the Kitsuhon. Because the latter is the closest thing to Enclave in post-Godswar Savarra: a xenophobic empire holding on to the most intact collection of the old world's secret, that inherited the most intact resource base.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

This isn't a serious comparison.

To be fair, it's halfway there.

The Cthulhu of "Call" would be what the Seven and their godservants periodically destroy: the odd unreconstructed Wraith slumbering in hiding, turning people mad in its vicinity, and threatening to awaken and start a fresh apocalypse. For all their imperfection, the Seven are not that.

Spoiler: Spoiler filled contrarianism because that's basically my personality

Aren't they still that though? They can choose not to cause madness and corruption and developed something approaching a moral compass, but they still are at their core wraiths. And they still lack the mortal perspective. They don't eat like a mortal, live like a mortal, have ever been really powerless like a mortal, and will never truly understand the human experience. No amount of homunculi or memory wells can compensate for that. They seem very much like those Old Gods from Horrible Phobias Lovecraft's books, just that they decided it was more beneficial to help humanity. And I disagree with the notion that their actions in the second half of the godswar were inspiring or redemptive. They killed just as many, maybe more, than they saved. And they only decided to help because of the unforeseen event in which their acts of mass murder made them mutate a conscious. And while it's true that there are people still alive in large part because of the seven, there were still mass deaths and the enfuckening of Savarra back to the bronze age because of the seven in part as well. The most charitable thing that can be done for the seven is to judge them in a case by case basis. But we've really only got 3 out of 7 to interact with right now. And of those 3, Nareva's the only one I personally would give the benefit of the doubt. Though I'll admit that's not exactly fair of me given that she has massive walls of text and loses her cool, so we've seen more of her personality without the "godly" filter than we have of Mallach and Keros for now.

I probably should have added I always support the brotherhood

Bethesda Brotherhood, or classic/Obsidian Brotherhood?

Until we see her mage hunters in action and can judge their methods, I'd rather give the Goth Snek goddess the benefit of the doubt.

If there's no Monty Python reference when they finally appear, I vote we riot in an orderly and civilized manner. Though is anyone else half expecting Nareva to view the gothmanders as her children or something?

 

[wery12345]

Bethesda Brotherhood, or classic/Obsidian Brotherhood?

Bolth

Though this particular turn of the discussion makes me wonder if Nareva's followers and the goddess herself butt heads often with Keros and the Kitsuhon.

Maybe, thought even if they did we might not see it in game, would be to much a hassle to write and not really be something that would matter to the whole, big dumb red opening any fuckin portal she can without worrying about consequence's.

 

[Alypia]

Spoiler: Spoiler filled contrarianism because that's basically my personality

Aren't they still that though? They can choose not to cause madness and corruption and developed something approaching a moral compass, but they still are at their core wraiths. And they still lack the mortal perspective. They don't eat like a mortal, live like a mortal, have ever been really powerless like a mortal, and will never truly understand the human experience. No amount of homunculi or memory wells can compensate for that. They seem very much like those Old Gods from Horrible Phobias Lovecraft's books, just that they decided it was more beneficial to help humanity. And I disagree with the notion that their actions in the second half of the godswar were inspiring or redemptive. They killed just as many, maybe more, than they saved. And they only decided to help because of the unforeseen event in which their acts of mass murder made them mutate a conscious. And while it's true that there are people still alive in large part because of the seven, there were still mass deaths and the enfuckening of Savarra back to the bronze age because of the seven in part as well. The most charitable thing that can be done for the seven is to judge them in a case by case basis. But we've really only got 3 out of 7 to interact with right now. And of those 3, Nareva's the only one I personally would give the benefit of the doubt. Though I'll admit that's not exactly fair of me given that she has massive walls of text and loses her cool, so we've seen more of her personality without the "godly" filter than we have of Mallach and Keros for now.

Spoiler: you're ignoring facts, dear

So, on the one side, we have what Lovecraft believed to be a manifestation of evil - he did not mince words about this - a great power that slumbered in a dark corner of the world; a power that was so far separated from human comprehension that it caused madness and mayhem simply by existing; a god that cared nothing for its worshipers, who formed an insane cult looking forward to the apocalypse it would visit upon the world were it ever to awaken.

On the other hand, we have gods that sometimes do shitty stuff and sometimes do decent stuff and sometimes genuinely do amazing stuff; who walk among the living and interact with them on a regular basis; who act an awful lot more like mortals than you'd expect to the extent that that is one of the first things that Sanders tells you about them (and who, despite Mallach's gesture in the direction of having trouble understanding people, are never shown with anything other than mortal-like emotions and behaviors, in very sharp contrast to the literally incomprehensible Cthulhu); who genuinely do care for their worshipers, both personally and in the form of regular minor miracles for them, and who have not spawned a mad apocalyptic cult.

These are simply not similar things and the comparison is not useful in the slightest. It's certainly not "halfway there". These are two entirely distinct kinds of deities. Seriously, ratchet the "gotcha" attempts back. The comparisons are more and more overwrought and less and less tied to the text of the game.

Your claim that the gods are completely untethered to mortal understanding is stretching Mallach's conversation about River to its absolute breaking point. Mallach doesn't think mortal life is completely incomprehensible. "Fascinating", sure. An experience somewhat distinct from that of the gods' by virtue of immortality and immense power, sure. Imbued with a sense that they'll not quite ever be able to enjoy reality in the exact way mortals do, sure. But not impossible to understand. The Mallach that messes with the Champion in their little conversation about River is a junkie for life experience. He "gets" mortal feelings and emotions, and uses the likes of River to feel them as fully as he can. And the other deities spoken to directly, Nareva and Keros, are also shown with deeply mortal feelings and actions: amusement, anger, guilt, pride, even genuine caring. Sanders says it in Champ's very first meeting with him: the living gods really are an awful lot like mortals, especially in their personalities. Nothing we've seen so far, not even their origins, has done anything to modify that.

There are points where you stretch the game text even further. At no point does the game text say that the Seven killed "as many, maybe more, than they saved". That's just outright made up. And you then go on to blame the Seven for the destruction of Belharan civilization, aka that thing that the Wraiths - you know, the entities that they were fighting - did. For someone who claims to appreciate Nareva the most out of all the Seven based on her conversation with Champ, you don't seem to have paid very close attention to the way she talked about the Godswar.

It's genuinely not fun to have conversations based on half-truths, exaggerations, and inventions, and if your goal is to get me to stop responding to you, then you're well on your way to succeeding.

For what it's worth, I want to say again that I think it's totally fine to not like the Seven, not trust them, not be okay with the way that they do things. It's difficult to be fully okay with any being of immense power that regularly intervenes in people's lives. And despite the undeniably good things that they've done, they're imperfect beings and their record is still mixed. Like, if you personally, or your player character, doesn't like or trust the Seven, or doesn't think that the former Wraiths have managed to atone for their prior existence, more power to y'all. Those are absolutely valid opinions to hold.

But what you're doing in this thread is creating a headcanon of malevolence that is simply not attested in the game. Where I answered the question "how could people worship these beings" with a fairly straightforward answer, you're posting your cherry-picked gotchas and arguments with me as though you think that it's impossible to understand how the people in the setting could worship the Seven. And that's just silly. What are you even arguing with me about at this point? Like I said, I'm not trying to convert you to a fictional religion that nobody in the real world, least of all myself, believes. I'm just trying to explain the characters in the game and correcting you about lore.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

Spoiler: you're ignoring facts, dear

So, on the one side, we have what Lovecraft believed to be a manifestation of evil - he did not mince words about this - a great power that slumbered in a dark corner of the world; a power that was so far separated from human comprehension that it caused madness and mayhem simply by existing; a god that cared nothing for its worshipers, who formed an insane cult looking forward to the apocalypse it would visit upon the world were it ever to awaken.

On the other hand, we have gods that sometimes do shitty stuff and sometimes do decent stuff and sometimes genuinely do amazing stuff; who walk among the living and interact with them on a regular basis; who act an awful lot more like mortals than you'd expect to the extent that that is one of the first things that Sanders tells you about them (and who, despite Mallach's gesture in the direction of having trouble understanding people, are never shown with anything other than mortal-like emotions and behaviors, in very sharp contrast to the literally incomprehensible Cthulhu); who genuinely do care for their worshipers, both personally and in the form of regular minor miracles for them, and who have not spawned a mad apocalyptic cult.

These are simply not similar things and the comparison is not useful in the slightest. It's certainly not "halfway there". These are two entirely distinct kinds of deities. Seriously, ratchet the "gotcha" attempts back. The comparisons are more and more overwrought and less and less tied to the text of the game.

Your claim that the gods are completely untethered to mortal understanding is stretching Mallach's conversation about River to its absolute breaking point. Mallach doesn't think mortal life is completely incomprehensible. "Fascinating", sure. An experience somewhat distinct from that of the gods' by virtue of immortality and immense power, sure. Imbued with a sense that they'll not quite ever be able to enjoy reality in the exact way mortals do, sure. But not impossible to understand. The Mallach that messes with the Champion in their little conversation about River is a junkie for life experience. He "gets" mortal feelings and emotions, and uses the likes of River to feel them as fully as he can. And the other deities spoken to directly, Nareva and Keros, are also shown with deeply mortal feelings and actions: amusement, anger, guilt, pride, even genuine caring. Sanders says it in Champ's very first meeting with him: the living gods really are an awful lot like mortals, especially in their personalities. Nothing we've seen so far, not even their origins, has done anything to modify that.

There are points where you stretch the game text even further. At no point does the game text say that the Seven killed "as many, maybe more, than they saved". That's just outright made up. And you then go on to blame the Seven for the destruction of Belharan civilization, aka that thing that the Wraiths - you know, the entities that they were fighting - did. For someone who claims to appreciate Nareva the most out of all the Seven based on her conversation with Champ, you don't seem to have paid very close attention to the way she talked about the Godswar.

It's genuinely not fun to have conversations based on half-truths, exaggerations, and inventions, and if your goal is to get me to stop responding to you, then you're well on your way to succeeding.

For what it's worth, I want to say again that I think it's totally fine to not like the Seven, not trust them, not be okay with the way that they do things. It's difficult to be fully okay with any being of immense power that regularly intervenes in people's lives. And despite the undeniably good things that they've done, they're imperfect beings and their record is still mixed. Like, if you personally, or your player character, doesn't like or trust the Seven, or doesn't think that the former Wraiths have managed to atone for their prior existence, more power to y'all. Those are absolutely valid opinions to hold.

But what you're doing in this thread is creating a headcanon of malevolence that is simply not attested in the game. Where I answered the question "how could people worship these beings" with a fairly straightforward answer, you're posting your cherry-picked gotchas and arguments with me as though you think that it's impossible to understand how the people in the setting could worship the Seven. And that's just silly. What are you even arguing with me about at this point? Like I said, I'm not trying to convert you to a fictional religion that nobody in the real world, least of all myself, believes. I'm just trying to explain the characters in the game and correcting you about lore.

I am not attempting to pull a gotcha. I genuinely don't know where that's coming from. As for exaggerations, I type like I talk and I'm prone to being dramatic or exaggerating. And that "halfway there" thing was more of a joke attempt, which I do in most conversations that I think are friendly or casual. I'll drop all attempts to be light hearted and make jokes in this thread then. I'll admit to making inferences and assuming the worst in interpreting their backstory though. I tried to avoid making definitive statements but it's easy to lose track of that, especially with how I talk. And I didn't originally ask why or how someone would worship them, I asked why they are worthy and deserving of worship. To me those are two different things. If you think I'm arguing in bad faith, then there's not much I can do to change that view so I see no point in continuing. So it'd best to agree to disagree then. My intent was never to upset or anything like that. I never even viewed this as an argument, just a discussion.

 

[wery12345]

I just want to worship fluffy dad I know discussions will happen, also anytime that mirrorquest is brought up im just kinda here in dumbass town cause I fucked up getting that stuff in both saves.

I asked why they are worthy and deserving of worship

Because as the afformentioned master of the fluff, has shown in the interactions you can have with him outside of the more uh, lewd acts, everytime he leaves its always in ways that are impossible, a damn good sign of magic normal folk cannot use. And the actual blessing that they can give to there followers, or the curse in the case of Komaris, which I have had fun guessing why he cursed her whole family and not just her.

 

[Savin]

And honestly the worst to me feels like the gothmanders, there like the brotherhood of steel for magic if everything ive read is being remembered right.

That's a fairly backwards interpretation but considering there's only like 2 lines in the game hinting at their existence, not an unreasonable one.

FWIW, the Order Astrida are based fairly directly on Witchers: their job is to go around Savarra protecting people from monsters and people actively abusing magic or magical artifacts to the detriment of people around them. Unlike the Brotherhood, which is a fairly large and rigid military organization, the Astrida are mostly lone agents (at most, sometimes small teams) who either range out in search of danger or spend their time attached to potentially dangerous artifacts or mages to make sure they're protected. The Brotherhood hunts down and kills Synths; the Order Astrida gives archmages hot 'mander concubines/bodyguards.

Darius is (rightly) concerned they're going to poke their noses into his business when he and Barney are messing with portals -- considering we know what can happen when you do that. The Winter City was extremely lucky in that it was within trebuchet distance of Lumia's personal abode! But they wouldn't come jackbooting down on him and drag him off to a dungeon; at worst an Astrida would come and break all his stuff and then camp the portal to make sure he stays away from it.

 

[Animalistic]

It still feels like Gods are just there. They do nothing. They are just live exposition and something that could have been done through story recollection or myths about them.
I interacted with them, my experience with the game and my context for doing stuff is still the same. They do really feel pointless in their inclusion to the story. Yeah, nice word building and they are cool NPCs but all they do is complicate things.
"Oh, they are far above anything that player can archive!"
"So, then why do they not stop Kas, who by intense and purposes is all but a insect to them?"
"Oh silly mortal, what is there to understand.Because they are buzzy and Kas is not big enough threat."
"So our whole journey is nothing really special. Why am I doing this again?"
"To protect your own soul, is that not a reason enough?"
"Yeah, sure, but only reason why Kas wants my soul is because it is a literal nuke that can help her archive her goal of world domination. Is that not, like, important to them?"
"Why should higher beings care for dealings of mortals?"
"Why did they care in the past?"
"Because Deities work in mysterious ways."

Honestly, all seven seem to serve is to downplay the player and Kas as a threat. Which can work in certain type of stories (a lot of nihilistic ones come to mind) but I am not sure if that is what writers are going for.

 

[SmithEK]

Now that would make one hella good ending.. Give Kas our champs soul, and help her achieve world domination by overpowering the Seven and making them our bitches.

 

[Burnerbro]

Kas is moving up in the world just like we do, and by the start of Act 2 the gods are starting to take notice. IIRC what the devs have said correctly, even if the Champ will stay as a mid level competent adventurer, Kas is slated to end up reaching the very top of the power scale available for normal beings, with some tricks up her sleeve and a variable that army behind her.

So the question isn't "why the gods don't care", but rather "why won't the gods manifest directly or at least send all of their devinelu ordained Champions bumming around all over Savarra". And maybe send them they will and that is how we will get to tip the scale back to the middle and allow the Champ solve the issue.

 

[Animalistic]

That just seems like more and more complication of things. So you are telling that instead of Killing her right now, they will allow her to get to that level, then confront her? Once again, you are undermining the champion and their efforts by making their main journey seem like a sidequest to the gods.

Like, what is the point to them? It feels like the game wants to have its world ending story but also make champion feel insignificant in their accomplishments.
Especially if it goes the way you described it.
Ah, well, the game was supposed to be just a sex game with nothing complicated about it. Lets just see how it plays out.

Now that would make one hella good ending.. Give Kas our champs soul, and help her achieve world domination by overpowering the Seven and making them our bitches.

That would be a nice ending. Fucking over the gods alone would feel worthy it.

 

[GOI]

I mean it is brought up that the seven are watching Kas and are interested in her experiments but they also warned her that she is pushing the limits of what their agreement between each other means

(would need to double check the Lumia showing up scene(where yeah it is made very clear Lumia has more than enough power to break Kas just as Kas could easily crubstomp us right now) and the whole talk with Mallach for exact wording of those thing since it is from memory)

 

[Savin]

why won't the gods manifest directly or at least send all of their devinelu ordained Champions bumming around all over Savarra"

Well, by Act 2

Spoiler

Velun's Champion is in the neighborhood and Mallach's said there's a crusade building up in the south, so...

 

[Animalistic]

Spoiler: Well, about the crusade

I have not done mallach temple since I have not romanced Kas so I can not comment on that but Veluns champion seems to do no good. Especially considering that she is probably Kas or demon in disguise. But maybe not since if she wanted the city dead she could have done in much simpler way.
And even if she was there to do good, I feel like your representatives doing stuff in your name is not same as you accomplishing it.

 

[SmithEK]

who's Velun?

 

[Lone Wolf115]

Spoiler: Well, about the crusade

I have not done mallach temple since I have not romanced Kas so I can not comment on that but Veluns champion seems to do no good. Especially considering that she is probably Kas or demon in disguise. But maybe not since if she wanted the city dead she could have done in much simpler way.

How? Firstly Sanders has talked to her and knows her as well. Secondly she welds a holy weapon and that weapon is a symbol of her office. (Did I misremember something about the weapon or am I on point?)

who's Velun?

The forest God

 

[AdelSAD]

How? Firstly Sanders has talked to her and knows her as well. Secondly she welds a holy weapon and that weapon is a symbol of her office. (Did I misremember something about the weapon or am I on point?)

Sanders only asks us to say hello to her from him. There's also an inconsistency in their dialogues: Sanders says that Calise became Champion only recently, but Calise says she's been Champion for years.

Calise told us about her axe by herself, she's probably lying (both Calise and Kasyrra use an axe (which even look similar); the story Calise tells us is similar to Kasyrra's; if the player romances Kasyrra, Calise not only shakes hands with the player every time they meet, but also hugs us). So Calise is 90% Kasyrra undercover (or in her human form).

 

[GOI]

the Seven are gods so why would they personally do something when they have minions to do it for them( note minions can be called heroes, demigods, normal followers or normal person or something they created to do the work for them, people they blessed)

also Lumia personally beats the wraith that come through that you and Kas could do Nothing to to the point of not being able to even hurt it and basically goes you finally have gone too far but you know she focus on the monster that corrupts and is basically immune to attacks first

 

[Kingu2]

Sanders only asks us to say hello to her from him. There's also an inconsistency in their dialogues: Sanders says that Calise became Champion only recently, but Calise says she's been Champion for years.

Calise told us about her axe by herself, she's probably lying (both Calise and Kasyrra use an axe (which even look similar); the story Calise tells us is similar to Kasyrra's; if the player romances Kasyrra, Calise not only shakes hands with the player every time they meet, but also hugs us). So Calise is 90% Kasyrra undercover (or in her human form).

the evidence is very flimsy at best with no solid proof.

so their axes look similar, are saying Kas shape shifted her axe? because I don't think it works that way. their looks and backstories are somewhat similar but not close enough to say they're the same person. Not to mention everytime Kas has shapeshifted the champ was still able to tell it's her even if no one else did. And so what if she hugs the champ that could just be her personality. and how do you explain her defending Khor Minos while Kas is still occupying the Winter City

this whole theory is based on a bunch of maybe's that can't really be proven.

 

[wery12345]

Also god intervening not happenign also makes sense, to do so even now with the shit Kas is doing would risk a reliance on them for more then just what there usual is I.E Luminas whole baby makin/velun shagging trees/A little bit of trolling. The only time the god intervene is during the romancing path where shes accidently summoned a big "oh god oh fuck what the fucking fuck" and "Im gonna vibe in the temple of a god" when it makes sense for them to show up.

Also "insert a joke I made about sanders being sienal before because of his living god text option", but whose to say he isnt misremembering how long Calise has been a champ of velun, his information of the outside world is from that of a very fucking suspicious little cat. Its probably hard to keep track of most divine champs due to the whole "doing shit for there god" thing, champs really only a exception because hes locked to the marches due to the big angry red thing.

 

[Animalistic]

I still stand that Gods, that are as they are now, are still pretty useless from narative standpoint and just serve to complicate things. We are only half way done so it can change, but that is how I feel right now.

 

[wery12345]

World building is important, even if this game is primarily a game about sex.

 

[Alypia]

World building is important, even if this game is primarily a game about sex.

It is, for sure - so long as the worldbuilding serves a purpose. If a character tells you a story about something that's happened in the world, that story should mostly serve to deliver information about that character. Transmitting lore, while it can be fun, should be secondary.

This is something that I struggle with; other authors are better about maintaining the balance.

 

[mikethor007]

the evidence is very flimsy at best with no solid proof.

\And so what if she hugs the champ that could just be her personality. and how do you explain her defending Khor Minos while Kas is still occupying the Winter City

It's not that Calise hugs the player, it's that her dioalogue changes on the same exact conditions for Kas' romance path. That for me is pretty telling.

For the WC to KM point, the game doesn't really tell how much time it took for the shit that goes down in KM to happen after WC, if it happened after WC at all, because even before the player can go to the wayfort the entrance into the Undermountain is already closed and the quarantine is already in effect. For all intents and purposes, Kas could have various fronts going on in parallel and she merely flies from one to another as needed. That is, if she doesn't use the ways between herself. Kas impersonating Calise could be a fairly recent thing to check on her underling's progress without them noticing.

Though if she really demonized a champion and took her place, it is a bit disappointing at how "easy" this went down. This whole spiel about Kas already being really powerful and capable of corrupting/demonizing whomever she wishes, while the player is a piddly little peon that flounders about in the mud is getting a bit old.


At some point the player should really be able to throw a MAJOR wrench in her plans, something that would put her in the wrong foot. Right now the only thing that can mess up part of her plans that bad is becoming soulbound.

Either way, when the jig is finally up, one side of this argument will have to eat a lot of crow.

 

[jwins]

Putting the tinfoil hat on for this one.


Calise and Blood Knight have near identical armor and what is different I attribute to the fact that they were dwarn by different artists with very different styles. It might be a coincidence but the hip plates, flap, ab armor, shin and arm guards being the same AND EVEN HOW BOTH OF THER RIGHT HAND IS BARE WHILE THE LEFT IS GLOVED.

Coincidence?

I THINK NOT!

 

[mikethor007]

Putting the tinfoil hat on for this one.


Calise and Blood Knight have near identical armor and what is different I attribute to the fact that they were dwarn by different artists with very different styles. It might be a coincidence but the hip plates, flap, ab armor, shin and arm guards being the same AND EVEN HOW BOTH OF THER RIGHT HAND IS BARE WHILE THE LEFT IS GLOVED.

Coincidence?

I THINK NOT!

And the blood knight deals holy damage. How the hell does a demon deal holy damage?

 

[wery12345]

I dunno ask the kitsune.

 

[mikethor007]

* roots around in the source code *

Well, in there there's evidence to support at least a wee bit of these arguments.

I dunno ask the kitsune.

In that case a god itself gave those powers. In the blood knight's case it could be the same.

 

[Kingu2]

It's not that Calise hugs the player, it's that her dioalogue changes on the same exact conditions for Kas' romance path. That for me is pretty telling.

For the WC to KM point, the game doesn't really tell how much time it took for the shit that goes down in KM to happen after WC, if it happened after WC at all, because even before the player can go to the wayfort the entrance into the Undermountain is already closed and the quarantine is already in effect. For all intents and purposes, Kas could have various fronts going on in parallel and she merely flies from one to another as needed. That is, if she doesn't use the ways between herself. Kas impersonating Calise could be a fairly recent thing to check on her underling's progress without them noticing.

Though if she really demonized a champion and took her place, it is a bit disappointing at how "easy" this went down. This whole spiel about Kas already being really powerful and capable of corrupting/demonizing whomever she wishes, while the player is a piddly little peon that flounders about in the mud is getting a bit old.


At some point the player should really be able to throw a MAJOR wrench in her plans, something that would put her in the wrong foot. Right now the only thing that can mess up part of her plans that bad is becoming soulbound.

Either way, when the jig is finally up, one side of this argument will have to eat a lot of crow.

Hey I'm not gonna try to convince you away from this little theory but please don't act like it's a fact or anything remotely approaching it until we have some actual ingame confirmation.