Jesus christ, that went deep. I just like the fact hes probably canonically the first god the champs meet.
If CoC2 was real what God or Godess would you serve/follow?
- Thread starter Lone Wolf115
- Start date
Does the question imply myself if I was living in Savarra, or my Champ(s)?
Personally, I'd be down with Mallach. Hell, I'd even agree to be ordained as his cleric - not least because it's nifty kushy job in close proximity to fun orgies - but only if I could get a personal exemption from any church singing or poetry slams.
My good natured Champs gel the most with the ideas of The Thicc Mom Paladin and the Grumpy Druid Grandad, while my corrupt Champ aims to usurp Kasyrra and ascend himself.
My newly turned harpy boy (who the game refuses to recognize as such) worships Sorra in hopes of getting her off of her glorious bird bum so she can guide protect her chosen people once more - and because he is heads over heels for Shar.
Personally, I'd be down with Mallach. Hell, I'd even agree to be ordained as his cleric - not least because it's nifty kushy job in close proximity to fun orgies - but only if I could get a personal exemption from any church singing or poetry slams.
My good natured Champs gel the most with the ideas of The Thicc Mom Paladin and the Grumpy Druid Grandad, while my corrupt Champ aims to usurp Kasyrra and ascend himself.
My newly turned harpy boy (who the game refuses to recognize as such) worships Sorra in hopes of getting her off of her glorious bird bum so she can guide protect her chosen people once more - and because he is heads over heels for Shar.
Well you personally, then see my first post how I basically said my race would be Lupine and my gender as well.
The Champion would be a completely different person, you would be in the world doing your own thing somewhere else.
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Kasyrra
E: Oh, joke's already been made. No worries, I see myself out.
E: Oh, joke's already been made. No worries, I see myself out.
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Keros is my choice, he seems like the most benevolent of the seven.
Nareva with her inquisition can go die in a gutter.
Lumia with her crusades against "heretics" can go die in a gutter too.
Mallach can keep sucking his own dick.
Sorra seems like a failure of a goddess, I pity her.
Velun is doing a whole bunch nothing.
Tira is boring.
Nareva with her inquisition can go die in a gutter.
Lumia with her crusades against "heretics" can go die in a gutter too.
Mallach can keep sucking his own dick.
Sorra seems like a failure of a goddess, I pity her.
Velun is doing a whole bunch nothing.
Tira is boring.
I've not absorbed as much of the lore as I might have liked due to being...distracted, but for me it would be a tossup between Keros, Sora, Mallach and Nareva.
Keros because floofy tails, but also because I like his general attitude. I've always liked Trickster gods who give evil doers their just deserts.
Sora because I love the idea of being able to fly. Not sure if she'd give me wings or not, but if she did, she'd definatally be one to consider.
Mallach because I like his connection to the arts and passion, two things that speak deeply to me. True, I'm more of a literary lover than painting or anything like that, but its still art.
Nareva because I also like knowledge deities and its always fun to learn new things.
Note, this is all from a cursory scan of the rather barren page on the Seven, so I might be missing some stuff and I might end up changing my mind after reading some more stuff with some actual detail.
Keros because floofy tails, but also because I like his general attitude. I've always liked Trickster gods who give evil doers their just deserts.
Sora because I love the idea of being able to fly. Not sure if she'd give me wings or not, but if she did, she'd definatally be one to consider.
Mallach because I like his connection to the arts and passion, two things that speak deeply to me. True, I'm more of a literary lover than painting or anything like that, but its still art.
Nareva because I also like knowledge deities and its always fun to learn new things.
Note, this is all from a cursory scan of the rather barren page on the Seven, so I might be missing some stuff and I might end up changing my mind after reading some more stuff with some actual detail.
None of them. The ones we meet are all terrible people in some way, but especially Lumia for allowing the literally bloody religious schism that happened to the Frost Elves, and Keros allowing bad things to happen to or outright cursing his own people essentially just for giggles.
Are you talking about Komari? Cause He doesnt do that, its more plays tricks on them, hes called the trickster for a reason.
Yep. Like cursing his own people for shits and giggles at best.
Well he either cursed Komari for shits and giggles, or did so to be petty against someone who opposed him and other wraiths during the godswar and used his new identity to get away with it. Or he's actively malicious still. But I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and just call him a dick instead evil.
Komari exists.
Kerros is a twink that does not take it up the ass so he is automatically worst than Mallach.
Leofric is a terrible champion and is a leader of terrible group of people so the war goddes has terrible taste in her representatives which means she has nothing to offer and I am glad I am not seeing her in game.
And Kas is best God(dess) because you can get rid of her.
Leofric is a terrible champion and is a leader of terrible group of people so the war goddes has terrible taste in her representatives which means she has nothing to offer and I am glad I am not seeing her in game.
And Kas is best God(dess) because you can get rid of her.
Yes, it's this, cursing Komari and her entire bloodline. And also doing nothing about Miko going into ravenous heat (and almost killing you if you fuck her) because "it looks interesting".
I actually forgot about that entire bloodline part till just now. That has no defense.
To be fair, I'd have done the same in that situation.
Well, I'd only ever follow a goddess, more specifically, a goddess I could bang.
Which would probably translate to none.
Which would probably translate to none.
None of the Seven is omniscient, omnipotent, or (let alone "and") omnibenevolent. Still gods, though.
They're the kind that will intervene to save the world from void monsters, but they're not the kind of gods that're going to tell everybody in the world what they can and can't do and enforce same with smiting. This is both good and bad.
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Its what I figured, but i just wanted confirmation. Though that doesnt seem like People at large, but I will let the statment stand cause its technically true.
So basically what the gods usually do, until someone invokes divine intervention.
Which does kind of bring into the question what use the gods serve in the game in first place... They are involved enough to be used for more then fleshing out the world and its history but they do not have much presence inside the plot. They are just kind of there which is kind of a waste in my opinion.
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At the risk of getting heavy, what makes them deserving and worth worshipping then?
I ask as I have a post proclaiming my love my love of Narevas's goth snakiness and appreciation for Velun aiding and abetting dear babes. But don't tell yourself about that, ok?
Ignoring a regular war and atrocity to let mortals do them is one thing. But if they ignore a holy war or atrocity in their name, then that would be like giving it approval. In such a case I'd say they, specifically Lumia given we have confirmation of her letting stuff like that happen, are evil. They (Lumia) may not smite, but they certainly have no issue with their followers do some down home country smitin'.
My anti-Lumia bias is showing y'all!
"Not omnibenevolent" doesn't mean "evil", dear. They're extremely powerful beings who generally like people and who are willing to perform or enable minor miracles for their followers.
Also, they saved the world from the apocalypse. A minor detail, to be sure.
I don't know! Maybe you'll have the opportunity to ask Lumia or Lumians about it in the future, since the only people you've really heard from on the subject are two druids. Not exactly people inclined to be charitable on the subject! To be fair, a close reading of what Synneva and Hethia admit about it implies some things, but they've yet to be formally confirmed.
An apocalypse that they were apart of on the evil monster side for the first half.
Maybe soon™ hopefully. But until then what we have doesn't paint Lumia or her snow elfy followers in a positive light. And given what Aetheldred did and Elthara jumping on the opportunity to bother Hethia about the druids converting when they're at a low point, I'm inclined to believe the druids for now. Especially knowing the truth of the Seven.
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I do find it funny that when someone invokes divine intervention Keros would have a high chance of actually giving a fuck, even if he will take your exact wording to be a little shitter. Unlike a certain someone who let Ryns parent die, totally dont have a Bias against Lumina, ignore the fluffy tails and the temple of mallach I funded in a territory that is prodominatly hers.
:shrug:
I'm giving reasons why Savarrans believe in and worship the Seven, not converting you to a fictional religion I don't participate in.
Which is a thing Savarrans don't actually know. (And, for the record, the examples of apotheosis we actually know about so far took place pretty early on.) But for people who do know, like the Champion...it's not clear to me that that should make them any less worthy of worship? Not only did they save the world, they did so in large part as atonement for what they were before they were gods. Honestly, that's inspiring, not hateful. Shouldn't saving life itself be redemptive? If redemption is at all possible for anybody, shouldn't it be possible for them?
Redemption doesn't mean forgetting what they actually were and, in some ways, still are. But I don't think that it changes anything. Even if one says that the formerly Wraithy Seven were doing it out of self-interest, which absolutely applies but which can't be disentangled from any other motive (and honestly arguments over "true altruism" are one of the worst kinds of intellectual masturbation and I don't care for them), the fact that there are people at all in the game's world instead of mindless, soulless thralls is because of the Seven.
Redemption doesn't mean forgetting what they actually were and, in some ways, still are. But I don't think that it changes anything. Even if one says that the formerly Wraithy Seven were doing it out of self-interest, which absolutely applies but which can't be disentangled from any other motive (and honestly arguments over "true altruism" are one of the worst kinds of intellectual masturbation and I don't care for them), the fact that there are people at all in the game's world instead of mindless, soulless thralls is because of the Seven.
There's certainly scope for more information, for sure. Then again, I don't think we need more information on Elthara, even though she's a priestess who still doesn't get a chance to just talk about her religion outside the context of having to respond to Hethia or someone else meming on her. I think there's plenty in-game to say that you're being uncharitable to her.
Elthara's the Lumian high priestess; proselytization is part of her mandate. It's kind of a thing for the religious. They like trying to share something good in their lives with other people, and they like doing things that they think their god would appreciate which includes gaining followers. And it would've been stupid of her to not have at least asked what exactly the end of a schism that had at least partly to do with religion actually means for the religious. But El also doesn't fight Ryn's "no", which isn't the sort of thing someone who's as cutthroat as you seem to think would do. As the sole remaining adult member of the nobility, the trusted religious leader of the city, the effective chancellor for the city's inexperienced and distracted new ruler, and one of the few people in Alissa's regime to emerge from it with her moral reputation intact, she's got a lot of scope for putting the screws to both Etheryn and the druids. Instead she's inviting the druids into the city, throwing them parties, and not demanding conversion at spearpoint.
This would be the same Keros that let Kiyoko stay in her amulet, in his own dream, less than a day's walk away from the floofy little colonial empire his worshipers have been busily building up, and watch her gradually go insane over the course of a few centuries without lifting a single finger to prevent it? And in fact, who viciously punished Kiyoko's loyal retainer for her death while knowing perfectly well that she was still, in some fashion, alive? If we're automatically assuming the absolute worst of every deity here, we should be ecumenical with it, shouldn't we?
And if we're charitable enough to believe that perhaps Keros, the literal Trickster God, was not that capricious and that there's a more flattering explanation for what happens, perhaps we can believe the same of the other gods and goddesses.
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This is the more reasonable approach that I would take. Don't really have a reason to outright hate any of them. Don't have any reason to unconditionally love them either. Giving them all the benefit of the doubt.
The only real beef I have with the Seven is that they require the champ to fork over their soul for their TFs, while I'm not certain they require that of other champions they induct.
And the other beef is entirely minor, that Lumia's TF will make any takers oh so feminine.
I mean yeah even I know Keros is an asshole, but each god has something dickish about them. Comes with the territory from what ive seen, like im not gonna say I like him without acknowlaging his faults. Lumina has her own good sides but for me I just dont like her faults so I dont side with her.
Your soul is a fucking anomally, chances are your getting more then even the average divine champions benifits. Also being souless removes the risk of becoming a demon(unless its kitsune lol).
Indeed, the champ's soul is unique, powerful, and a McGuffin. And world + dog + even the gods are salivating at the prospect of grabbing it for themselves.
It doesn't change the fact that it makes me (only talking for myself here) think of it as making a deal with the devil. It's not an equivalent exchange, not by a loong shot. And definetely not something a "benevolent" god should require, in my opinion.
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I mean, Keros doesn't just make Champ "a" kitsune or "a" champion. He makes Champ the Champion and all of Keros' not-fond-of-barbarians worshipers have to be Very Nice. It stands to reason that if Champ is making a deal for their soul with any other deities, those deities will offer similar considerations. After all, they've got to compete with what Kasyrra's offering.
But of course, the deal isn't for everybody. Which is also okay. People like Sanders and Liaden and Elthara didn't have to give their souls to Lumia, but she seems to like them just fine. And even if being a Kerosite while not being a kitsune is a little more goofy, a Champ who doesn't go floof can still have a perfectly good time in the den. They can still have a lovely relationship with Kiyoko and their kits, if that's what they want. At no point is a godservant TF "necessary". It may not be worth it to you, but that's all right: it's never forced.