I think negative evasion should be handled differently.

BasedBuckNasty

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Nov 5, 2017
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I read somewhere that the neg Evasion damage penalty only applies to HP damage, can anyone confirm? It's my main reason for believing this is in response to people saying Merc was so powerful, 'cause it wouldn't affect Techs(Petra's and Lash Cannon, fuck yeah) or Smugglers.

Erm, I can crank out 366 damage with my smuggler in two aimed shot crits with Lash Cannon. If I shoot first (tm) I can do three attacks with crit potential and one shot level nine mining bots (with 36% bonus evasion).

If you get killed by anything as a Techie you should stop playing vidya gamez.

OP merc is a meme.

Headbutt, paralyze/shock, flashbang. and mag binders give all the classes the same stun lock potential, give or take. Everything the merc gets in kinetic defense the Tech more than gets in shield defense (the tech literally has three redundancies to restoring shields, four if you take a energy draining weapon). If you want to play a difficult class (as far as Tits goes), play a melee smuggler I guess.
 
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Alabaster Chimes

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Aug 29, 2015
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Ok. At first I didnt take this thread seriously, but it seeing how its starting to pick up steam, I decided to go into the issue. My MinMax/GameMechanics Analysis Skills havent been used for TiTs in quite awhile AND I havent had a long winded essay discussing a topic here so bear with me. Im going to sort of go with both sides here as I see where each is coming from, but by the end of this spiel, you should know which side of the fence Im leaning towards...

To start: I MAINLY play Smuggler. All my SERIOUS SERIOUS PC's are Smuggies. I do all the stuffs with them, and I tend to get in their heads a BIT too much. Regardless, Id like to point out that the new Evasion Stat Bonus is completely null and void for Smugglers (at least at this point in time). The Smuggler gets two PASSIVE perks that give them a flat 10 points in Evasion. So without anything equipped a Level 6 Smuggler has 20 Evasion.

Now on my complete BS character, who has "testing" items (that'll Ill keep as a.... "reward"), has the HIGHEST NEGATIVE items for Evasion. This being the Saurmorian Hammer with -5 Evasion. The Lash Cannon with the absolute highest at -10 Evasion. And the Frostbane Plate being at -2 Evasion.

20-17=3

The Smuggler cant feasibly be affected by this stat late game. Smuggler is now Meta-META.

I just focused on a PRETTY BIG negative towards this whole thing and my precious class is probably gonna get butchered, but now Im gonna make a detour to the other side of the fence. At the moment the HIGHEST Negative Evasion Stat for ARMOR is -2. I went through every piece I could find, even the ones you can spawn that dont crash your game when you pop them in. So TECHNICALLY, you are taking extra damage more than likely due to your weapons slowing you down than the armor. And when Power Armour is put in I imagine a WHOLE new system is gonna be added with that.

Anyway, so take the -2 from the Frostbane out and we are left with the two big weights in our weapon slots. -15 Points there.

From this point on Im going to assume you are not apart of the OG Smuggler Master Race

This is the part where I mention the MASSIVE Crutch in the game: Accessories. They exist, and to be fair Tam-Wolf, SiegWulfe, and the Varmint arent that good of damage compared to the monster you become at Level 10 with the other items in that slot. And the biggest tid bit here, is that pretty much half of the items give lots of Evasion. I know pretty much everyone knows how to get Uveto at this point, and the Explores Cloak is great item for any build giving +1 Defense and +8 Evasion, which cancels out the Hammer and if you kill Frosty and stupidly go for the Plate (which you shouldnt go for the Mail) cancels that out too. What Im trying to get at here is that there is plenty of STRONG armor for heavy character that have 0 Evasion, but the idea for this new stat thing, is to keep you above the negative threshold.

The Lash Cannon is the BIGGEST Hitter for -Evasion and its locked behind some niche shit, and you have to choose it over a pretty devastating melee weapon. What Im trying to get at is here is that with what state we are in NOW in the current build, there is no goddamn reason anybody should be in Negative Evasion, there are plenty of tools there to stop it from happening to you and you really should use them.


Thats my Fen Side argument, but now Im tell you how I feel about the actual problem with the system.

Getting hit harder, for being slower, does not make sense.

Now, in headcanon i think that I would just get headshotted (that is not a word) due to my lack of speed near constantly, or Id get hit with a pretty good slam or slice whichever which. If Flavor Text was added for that, Id be fine with it to a point. OR if instead of FLAT DAMAGE, the enemy gets an increase in crit damage/chance to you. Now formites, I know that sounds worse at first, but would you rather take every hit do 6% more damage OR have a crit happen to you 12% percent more often? Just throwing that out there.

The Flat damage thing is plain out crap, Id sooner be fine with a perk that converts your Taint into Armor Points. Its that dumb.

To finish off, I do hope everyone does take some of this to heart and this thread doesnt devolve into a bloodfest,( I got enough of that in the Myrellion threads).

Here's to Evasive Balancing!!!
 

ScarletteKnight

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Dec 19, 2015
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Erm, I can crank out 366 damage with my smuggler in two aimed shot crits with Lash Cannon. If I shoot first (tm) I can do three attacks with crit potential and one shot level nine mining bots (with 36% bonus evasion).

If you get killed by anything as a Techie you should stop playing vidya gamez.

OP merc is a meme.

Headbutt, paralyze/shock, flashbang. and mag binders give all the classes the same stun lock potential, give or take. Everything the merc gets in kinetic defense the Tech more than gets in shield defense (the tech literally has three redundancies to restoring shields, four if you take a energy draining weapon). If you want to play a difficult class (as far as Tits goes), play a melee smuggler I guess.
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about Buck, I was saying that as far as I know, the extra damage taken because of a negative Evasion only affects HP damage and not Shielding, which means a Techie could use the Phasic, Lash Cannon, and Pirate Proto Shield for -23 Evasion without any real drawback. Which is funny, and maybe a bit much. But I was asking if anyone could confirm or refute the claim, because I don't know if it's true.


Alabaster, you can easily get -25 Evasion with Petra's Phasic Whip, Lash Cannon, F.Bane Plate, and Pirate Prototype Shield.
 

BasedBuckNasty

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Nov 5, 2017
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and if you kill Frosty and stupidly go for the Plate (which you shouldnt go for the Mail)
One day there will be a psionic enemy that deals cold damage and you will rue the day you spat upon my Frostbane Plate! YOU WILL SEE!!! YOU WILL ALL SEE!!!!

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about Buck, I was saying that as far as I know, the extra damage taken because of a negative Evasion only affects HP damage and not Shielding, which means a Techie could use the Phasic, Lash Cannon, and Pirate Proto Shield for -23 Evasion without any real drawback. Which is funny, and maybe a bit much. But I was asking if anyone could confirm or refute the claim, because I don't know if it's true.


Alabaster, you can easily get -25 Evasion with Petra's Phasic Whip, Lash Cannon, F.Bane Plate, and Pirate Prototype Shield.

I hope Fen isn't balancing the game on memes. The ranged merc is no more overpowered than the melee tech. Like, I don't like the merc class! Let's make it more unappealing so more people will play as the other two classes I do like... in a non-multiplayer game...
It is a waste of time, energy, resources, and just a unnecessary frustration for everyone involved for what gain exactly? I don't think it works like that lol. They will still play as a merc, just like people will still prefer sticking their dick in thicc Anno.
Stop trying to rile up merc players lol. You just made a case for nerfing your own class you know? 20 shield defense, 35% kinetic defense, 15% fire defense (lasers and plasma the most common enemy weapons use a combination of kinetic and fire damage), and 300+ shield points with Enhanced Dampeners granting a 50% vulnerability reduction to damage absorbed by your shield generator (just because you may self handicap doesn't mean your class isn't so advantaged as to be capable of equipping a shield generator and a rock to beat enemies), and the class that relies on armor defense gets the HP punishment evasion nerf.
 
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Alabaster Chimes

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2015
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Alabaster, you can easily get -25 Evasion with Petra's Phasic Whip, Lash Cannon, F.Bane Plate, and Pirate Prototype Shield.

Even with that combo you can still be in the positive on a smuggler. As I said earlier, from Level 6 onward, the Smuggler has 20 Evasion NATURALLY without ANYTHING EQUIPPED. This comes from passive perks that you get from leveling that you DONT SELECT. You get them automatically.

With that combo of items on a smuggler, youd only need to equip an accessory that gives you +5 Evasion to back to 0 to avoid the debuff. I wear the explores cloak pretty much all the time and that gives +8 Evasion which would put me in the positive at +3.

(I will take this time to point out that to those that dont know that 3% Evasion means you have 3 points of Evasion if you are getting confused about how Im breaking this down. So when I say that a Smuggler has a Flat Natural 20, I mean they have 20% just by existing.)