I don't care that it's an opinion thread, I will fight you on this.
She is one of the least racist myr on both sides of the conflict outside of extremely jaded and cynical deserters. Yes, she does buy into some of Red Myr propaganda and substitutes racism against all Golds with classist anti-Queen rhetoric. But you have to remember that she grew up in a militaristic society that was in a state of constant war, and that she experienced first-hand things that are known to instill even more hatred in people.
We have zero evidence of her abusing or mistreating Mayren and Sierva. Compared to an average trench wife owner as described by Anzhela, Lieve is a freaking saint. Pretty much the only thing her wife could not go to her with was the issue of sending a message to Gildenmere.
Lastly, there are the tour/date and the kiss. The former is just Lieve trying her hand at courting a lover 'gold myr style' for the first time and being simultaneously too roundabout and too direct about it. I would still be down with someone doing that IRL, cause sucking at dating is something most people I know were guilty of at some point. The kiss was just Lieve's way of venting her frustration, a desperate attempt to slavagd the date and a big 'fuck you too, buddy', all rolled into one. Not the right thing to do, sure, but think about the fact that she could have drugged Steele and have her way with them but chose not to.
She grew up in a militaristic society that was in a state of war, yes. Constant war, the part about the Reds and Golds always being at odds, I don't believe. By Nehzara's own admission, the Golds were unprepared for the war, and have been steadily losing ground from the get-go. And so, in the face of being so close to total annihilation, I can't blame the golds for fighting dirty for their survival. Therefore I award Lieve no sympathy for falling victim to it.
And on the contrary, we have plenty of evidence of her mistreating her trench wives. First of all, she keeps dosing them with her venom - she's not making any effort to wean them off it. She likes having them nice and dopey - because they are just playthings to her. She's constantly rolling her eyes when they talk, patronizing them, etc. Further, because of Anzhela, we know that the Reds have the ability to take venom suppressants - and Lieve doesn't. She's no better in this regard to any other Red.
Lastly, it shouldn't have been a date in the first place. You asked for a damn tour. She has no right to be offended that her attempts to make it more than that didn't go well, and she certainly has no right to use her venom to 'salvage the date'. As for 'well, she COULD have raped you if she wanted to, but since she didn't that makes her a good person'? I have my doubts that that would have gone well for her. Maybe your Steele is completely lacking in the willpower department, but mine would have the business end of a gun in her face very quickly. In any case, Lieve is greedy and selfish.
Also, think for a moment about what you just said. You would be OK with someone using roofies to get laid IRL? That's pretty fucked up, man.
Lastly, I admitted that she's not the most evil character in the game. Only that she's the one I hate the most. Her callous willingness to just spread her venom around everywhere like butter on toast - or more accurately, to butter Steele's toast - to get what she wants plants her firmly as my most hated character.
@Riddle78 I'm glad you took ol' Shep as he was meant to be taken. Sometimes I think I was a bit too subtle with him, given the rest of the game. On the other hand I couldn't really go overboard, because there's no way currently to argue or fight back against what he represents. So it is possible (just about) to take Trogdor's view on it - that he's perfectly nice if patronising to you and Able, and there's probably worse things going on in the galaxy than Thare. Still, it does seem strange to me that you'd think he was fine but at the same time would want to kill Lieve.
Why does that seem strange to you?
Lieve has mind-controlled a couple of well-meaning, civilized soldiers, and is using them as sex slaves. And she wants to do the same thing to you - someone she has no quarrel with.
Shep is attempting to civilize violent savages - and failing because he's not resorting to mind control drugs or other nefarious means. He might be full of himself, but until you write him doing evil things, I'm not going to consider him an evil character. The guy's just making food using prison labor, and the only reason he's using prison labor is because the locals are territorial dicks who are mostly incapable of interacting non-violently with strangers. As for the land Shep took,
output("\n\n<i>“A natural clearing claimed by a rival clan,”</i> replies Able, looking at his feet. <i>“They always come back here every few years to reap its bounty, then leave to allow it to regrow. That is the other reason why many zil do not wish to work with Mr. Darnock.”</i>");
They were using it for food. Shep comes along and turns it into a place that's capable of making food much more efficiently, and instead of working with the man, they want to fight him over it.
That said,
output("<i>“Why are you here, Able?”</i> you ask, as you massage gel into your");
if(pc.isBald()) output(" scalp");
else output(" [pc.hair]");
output(". <i>“Doesn’t seem like the zil are sold on the professor’s gig as a whole.”</i>");
output("\n\n<i>“Before Mr. Darnock came, I was a zil amongst other zil. Happy but ignorant,”</i> replies Able in his calm, measured voice. <i>“I lived amongst the trees and within the moment, prey to the serpent-lions and evil sirens of the deep forest. Now, I have a name and a profession that I enjoy. I have gained perspective my fellows cannot. My sir is right - the coming of people with great knowledge from the stars means we must cast aside our ignorance and connect with them, learn from them. Otherwise we risk annihilation.”</i> ");
output("\n\n<i>“And so far,”</i> he goes on in a harder tone, <i>“only Mr. Darnock’s company has reached out to us. Not the people of the place you call Esbeth, who imprison us or drive us away with their giant white stings; not those who call themselves the Zen jinn, who covet the sirens’ dark secrets and kill any that stand in their way; and not the terrible black wings, who stalk this land now, spiriting our folk away.”</i>");
output("\n\n<i>“So why haven’t more zil taken him up on his offer?”</i> you say, looking over the tub’s rim at him.");
output("\n\n<i>“Um. I’m not </i>typical<i> of zil. I don’t think Mr. Darnock understands this,”</i> the slim zil says, shuffling his carapace-covered feet. <i>“For most zil, contests of physicality and sexuality are thrilling, and practically demanded when encountering a stranger. The struggles reveal the strengths and weaknesses of each party. Only after the struggle and resulting sexual relief do they consider trade or diplomacy. For an outsider, it would be even harder. Naleen and Vanae are poor conversationalists; why should your people be any different? That's why the others you see in the vault will lead off with an assault. I never liked that, because I preferred submitting straight away. It just feels so much better, you know? So I was happy to take orders from sir. My brothers and sisters though... for them it was a non-starter, because Mr. Darnock refused to act as expected.”</i>");
Vault? Zen jinn? Black Wings?
Actually,I have gotten to (and conquered) Myrellion on previous runs. And the way I see it? Both sides in that conflict are wrong,their stances built on falsehoods and hate. The entire planet is just a massive demonstration of the "Silly Reason For War" trope. Once you cut through all the shit,it's a race war. They're waging war simply because their exoskeletons are different colours,even if they don't recognise it on a conscious level. The only truly guilty parties on Myrellion are those at the top of each respective totem pole for perpetuating their conflict; Everyone else doesn't know enough to know better. It took the threat of aliens turning their planet to glass from orbit to get them to stop trying to kill eachother... Openly.
Hate runs deep on Myrellion,and the only people who are in a position to put the planet on the road to recovery are either too mired in red tape,or they simply refuse to accept the facts. For the former,any attempts to help the situation would run dangerously close to exactly why I find Shep to be morally reprehensible. The latter likely don't want to surrender their positions of power and authority with such an about-face stance. At the end of the day,however,those in power on Myrellion were making the best of an awful situation; At the very least,their war was one of mutual consent,as twisted as that sounds. Shep? He drops in,and colonises. The way he speaks just smacks of exhaustive experience in his methods. He makes use of reeducation methods of brainwashing via indoctrination,specifically seeking naive natives who don't know any better,or an audience that has no choice but to listen. He tramples on the cultures and values of others,in a ham-handed attempt to introduce his own,seemingly without even considering the other party in any capacity beyond the fact that they aren't part of his culture and values.
I consider Shep to be far worse than the Gold Queens and Red Generals because,quite simply,he doesn't give even the tiniest of fucks about other cultures and values. At the very least,the Queens and Generals recognise that the opposing system exists,and while it has its merits,they see the other system as something that will slowly destroy the species culture as a whole. Just like with Shep,the road to Hell is paved with good intentions,here. But at least the Myr are educating themselves about the opposing system. The best way to look at Myrellion is to look at it like it's World War One. There's no good side or bad side. Just a tangled ball of fuck,and good intentions gone sour. It's obscenely complicated. Compare that to the cut-and-dry simplicity of a foreigner swanning in,and acting like he knows better than you,simply because he has shinier toys.
As I said; American expansion to the West,and the Second Boer War. And Canada's early attempts at dealing with Aboriginals. All of these events are good ways to describe Shep's behaviour. At least,that's how I see it.
Er, I think either you or I missed something. My understanding is that the only Zil working for Shep is Able, whom came voluntarily. The other workers are UGC prisoners shipped in from off-world. So I don't see where you're getting the idea that Shep is using indoctrination/brainwashing/force. As for the land he took over, well, is Esbeth or any other colony any better in that regard? Are you suggesting everyone should just stay where they are and not try to seek out new places to live? That kind of puts you at odds with a whole lot of the game. The whole planet rush is all about going off into the frontier and interacting with the natives and colonizing new worlds. And every habitable world seems to have native life on it.
As far as the Myr go, I just don't buy the Red's story at all, for the reasons I mentioned above. I think the Reds attacked because they like fighting and claiming sex slaves, and it's only made worse by the fact that they appear to know tthat what they're doing with their venom is morally wrong, but they do it anyway because it helps them win. Then they have the audacity to complain about the Golds' sending inferior soldiers to fight and point to it as a reason why their leadership is bad. Nevermind the fact that they've had the advantage all along because they almost surely started the war and also haven't had to spend as many resources dealing with captured prisoners.
So why people keep saying that reds are all so evil and bad and villain and so on? -_-
