Black Garden [Fantasy Adult RPG]

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
10
35
Just wanting to be 100% certain: Does it matter *which* house we give the captured NPCs to, to get the skill? Like the Thief for Guile. I've tried handing him over to seemingly each house, and then talking to everyone in it, but none of them did anything special, or offered to teach Guile, or anything. I even tried checking back the next in-game day, and still nothing. Feels like I am missing something, and I am not certain what.

The Thief himself will offer to teach it once you interact with him in the house (it doesn't matter which household). The only reason he wouldn't is if you already have the Guile skill. What exactly does he say when you talk to him? Because I just checked and it was working on my end.
 

ShinkuTear

Member
Sep 9, 2015
7
1
So, after checking over, it seems that who I caught was not the Thief, but the Bandit. I must have assumed they were the same NPC or something. I later caught a different NPC, Soldier I believe, and he offered to teach a skill when given to a house.

He was commenting about how he gets plenty of sex, and I definitely did not start with the Guile skill.
 

zundas

Member
Feb 22, 2019
11
8
28
London
Hiya, bit of a feedback. I've played for around 10 hours total across a handful of saves/characters for a bit of variety wanting to test some things out. First off I've come across 3 of what I assume are bugs/coding issues:

The rat tail quest turn-in sometimes doesn't work, even with 5 or more rat tails in your inventory. My guess is it's counting something other than the rat tails (like rats killed since last quest turn-in?) or something else is getting in the way. The 2nd was a loading issue where I loaded into the game after booting up and I was stuck in one of the zone loading screens, in this case for the forest area to the right. 3rd is that after a while the chests in the forests just stopped spawning the wooden trapped ones and 100% became the metal ones requiring lockpicking, I don't know if they're also supposed to get mixed about and this was a fuckup or if they're meant to progressively get harder as time goes on but yup.

Then a few gameplay/functionality gripes:

I love the idea of your origin affecting your character directly with the whole noble/commoner/street urchin thing but the execution with the sleeping seems off from a gameplay perspective. I don't know what you're planning to do with the system but the current one has a big flaw in it - you can just sleep more to refill your VP instead of needing to eat or drink potions. Ths means that rather than having a downside for your character it's really just a downside for the player, nobles may as well sleep for 16-24 hours as their sleep related downside right now. Having some kind of debuff like having lower max vit or lower attack accuracy (due to sleeping badly) that doesn't go away from sleeping would be better. People will always go with the least bothersome option of sleeping over wasting money and even more time on getting food/potions.

Another issue I feel is the seemingly drastic jump in armour effectiveness. With a single armour change wolves went from a threat that I could take down at the cost of half my health without healing to a tiny puppy gently tapping on my nose for 1 damage a hit. Werewolves went from undefeatable to defeatable with a good chunk of HP to spare in that same upgrade. By all means have better armours block more damage but smoothing it out more will be less jarring, better that when you move on to a bigger badder foe you don't just completely outclass it after a single upgrade.

I was going to say something about the spacing of the trees in the central path area and how it would make people check for hidden areas that weren't there, but then I found the little area with the apple tree so 10/10. Overall really like the game despite it's issues and obvious alpha-ness. Can't wait to see how it shapes up in the future.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
10
35
So, after checking over, it seems that who I caught was not the Thief, but the Bandit. I must have assumed they were the same NPC or something. I later caught a different NPC, Soldier I believe, and he offered to teach a skill when given to a house.

He was commenting about how he gets plenty of sex, and I definitely did not start with the Guile skill.

I wanted the game to feel a bit less "dark" with the kidnapped NPCs actually getting into their new life!

The rat tail quest turn-in sometimes doesn't work, even with 5 or more rat tails in your inventory. My guess is it's counting something other than the rat tails (like rats killed since last quest turn-in?) or something else is getting in the way.

The NPC will always take only 5 tails and reset the quest, so you will have to destroy 5 more rats before she takes 5 more, as of version 0.1.2 she should explain this better in her quest dialogue.

The 2nd was a loading issue where I loaded into the game after booting up and I was stuck in one of the zone loading screens, in this case for the forest area to the right.

The game is technically going to only be savable in the house and at specific save points in the future. You can save the game anywhere now mostly for testing purposes. That said, the reason for this is that saving next to an enemy NPC spawn can bug your game out in the way you just described when you reloaded. So it is a bug sort of.

3rd is that after a while the chests in the forests just stopped spawning the wooden trapped ones and 100% became the metal ones requiring lockpicking, I don't know if they're also supposed to get mixed about and this was a fuckup or if they're meant to progressively get harder as time goes on but yup.

Chests need to be opened before new ones can spawn in, and while the locked ones have a much lower chance of spawning than the wood ones, they will eventually replace all the wooden ones over a long period of time if they are not opened. It is not super ideal with the current play space available, but as I add more maps in, this inconvenience will hopefully iron itself out.

I love the idea of your origin affecting your character directly with the whole noble/commoner/street urchin thing but the execution with the sleeping seems off from a gameplay perspective. I don't know what you're planning to do with the system but the current one has a big flaw in it - you can just sleep more to refill your VP instead of needing to eat or drink potions. Ths means that rather than having a downside for your character it's really just a downside for the player, nobles may as well sleep for 16-24 hours as their sleep related downside right now. Having some kind of debuff like having lower max vit or lower attack accuracy (due to sleeping badly) that doesn't go away from sleeping would be better. People will always go with the least bothersome option of sleeping over wasting money and even more time on getting food/potions.

This is true! I am hoping that with the addition of more areas and dungeons, there will be a significant reason to stock up on potions and food as you wont be able to go back to your bed without resetting progress in dungeons... or for convenience if you are too far away on another map and still want to continue adventuring there.

Another issue I feel is the seemingly drastic jump in armour effectiveness. With a single armour change wolves went from a threat that I could take down at the cost of half my health without healing to a tiny puppy gently tapping on my nose for 1 damage a hit. Werewolves went from undefeatable to defeatable with a good chunk of HP to spare in that same upgrade. By all means have better armours block more damage but smoothing it out more will be less jarring, better that when you move on to a bigger badder foe you don't just completely outclass it after a single upgrade.

This does need some balancing. From my initial playthroughs the numbers seemed okay for now, but as more foes get added in, the balance will need to be rethinked for sure.

I was going to say something about the spacing of the trees in the central path area and how it would make people check for hidden areas that weren't there, but then I found the little area with the apple tree so 10/10. Overall really like the game despite it's issues and obvious alpha-ness. Can't wait to see how it shapes up in the future.

I'm glad people actually found that area! Another interesting fact I should mention is that any given playthrough has a 50% chance of having either the Apple or Orange trees in the forest. So in your one all trees will be Apple. You can still get Oranges by buying them though!
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
10
35
I hate double posting, but I added a small update to the game... like an actually small one, so it wont even notify you when you install it, but here is what changed:
  • Added Tier 4 Patrons into Credits.
  • Added puddles to replace fire flies during rain.
  • Finally removed Fire II test skill for good this time.
  • Added [Enter] key as another way to interact with objects/people.
  • [Botany] Gathering plants on your farm now gives Craft EXP equal to your Botany Level instead of none. The +50% for Hero mode still applies.
  • The Quest Journal tab is greyed out and can't be accessed yet as it is a work in progress.
 

Brice

Member
Aug 21, 2019
16
0
30
An idea to deal with the game getting clogged with locked chests the player can't open, you could make it so items, plants, and chests the player has not opened/gathered disappear after a week, and if that's too hard to program you could just clear the maps at the end of the week.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
10
35
An idea to deal with the game getting clogged with locked chests the player can't open, you could make it so items, plants, and chests the player has not opened/gathered disappear after a week, and if that's too hard to program you could just clear the maps at the end of the week.

That is actually really hard to do in either of those ways (if possible at all without destroying non-random events). A simpler solution would be to have the two chest types generate into separate pools. However, I put them in one pool in the first place because I intended them to slowly get replaced. It was supposed to encourage people to learn new skills (namely Guile in this case) along the way.
 

ShinkuTear

Member
Sep 9, 2015
7
1
So, I've been playing this for a few days, and I have a few details that have been bothering me, and perhaps something could be done to solve them, or at least make them better. Although I might word these details poorly, I do not intend to sound rude with them, and sorry if I do. Just trying to give my honest opinions, and some ideas that could maybe help cover them

1: Is there any chance of improving visibility when moving around in the forest and mines? The darkness in parts of the mines can hide rats perfectly, and the only decent way to fight them is to wait for them to move out, or run around mashing to try and start a fight. It's not too bad, as they usually do move out while mining, but an alternate would be nice. The trees in the forest can perfectly hide NPCs as well, which makes trying to find them even harder on top of the "up-to 25%" spawn chance issue.

I know of both lil alcoves in the main path of the forest(the tree in the bottom left, the covered part in top left), I can Jump to the Forest Chest section and I have Climb so I can reach the Iron mining point, though I still need to repair the bridge. I can access almost every location an NPC could spawn, but the poor visibility due to trees means my odds of *finding* an NPC are much lower than their actual 25% spawn rate.

Maybe a lamp or similar item to remove all darkness in the mines, and a lasting way to remove trees or remove them from view(or just an option to hide them?). Maybe the NPC spawn locations+movement could be adjusted so they stay in visible locations? Maybe their spawn rates could be improved above 25%, so that hunting for them is easier? Maybe a check for NPCs in the room? Like "There are 2 Rats" or "There is a Swordsman", similar to how we can just press T to bring up the clock while walking around.

I could save at the town exit after 8 AM while it is sunny, check both screens completely, load that save and repeat, and not find an NPC after 6 or 7 runs. Once I do find an NPC, it has a chance to be an NPC I can not/can barely benefit from, such as a Bandit, a Berserker(Giving to Brothel doesn't seem to help much, that I can tell), or the Traveling Priest(10k coins for white magic seems massive, especially since his appearance is random, and income is poor). If it is someone useful, I have to guess at how much Intimidate I need for the Student Traveler, or what stats I need to win against the ones I fight.

Which leads to the next problem(2): The most useful NPCs are actually very strong in battle, alt methods to capture might not exist/be available to the player, and getting the stats to beat them isn't easy. I had 125 Max VP(10 from Commoner, 10 more from chest-found Twine Amulets), 2 Shivs(best 1h weapon I've found for offense), Iron Chainmail, 4 STR, 4 TGH, and 3 AGI with my equipment(4/2/3 when naked), and I had almost zero chance to beat Swordsman or Thief with this gear. I got crushed by both of them because of their 30~ damage per hit.

So I went and spent the next in-game week or two grinding in the mines. I opened up all 3 extra rooms, I pushed all Mining sections except VP to max, and managed to get an Iron Shield, Iron Platemail, and a Mace(for a chance of stun). I also pushed Athletics to 4 and its Arms skill to 3. This put my at 10 TGH and 1 AGI, so Swordsman now dealt 5~ damage per hit, and my best source of damage was still Hail Strike. Swordsman still managed to deal 30 damage before Hail Strike could take him down.

Without the Charisma skill, I seemed to be unable to Intimidate the Student Traveler, who I need for Saffron's sidequest, which meant that I was unable to advance that part without beating the Swordsman.

Are NPCs meant to be this strong, where 7+ TGH seems needed to endure their attacks? If not, perhaps they could be weakened a bit? If NPCs are meant to be this strong, perhaps better gear could be made available? Or perhaps a reliable alternate way to obtain better gear, such as better stock from the Smith as you do something? Smithing takes quite a while to level even once, and it feels like Iron Shield and/or Iron Plate is needed for some fights, like Swordsman and Thief. I only have Smithing level 2, so no idea what gear later levels give, or how reasonable it is to make, or how good it is.

3: Weapon variety that I have seen seems rather barren, as none of the weapons give STR, and most of the extra details don't seem too important, except for the Iron Shiv and Iron Mace. Iron shiv swings an extra time on normal attack, and using 2 of them stacks that effect, for 3 swings. Iron Mace has 10% chance to stun, which seems to be checked on each hit of multi-attack skills. Neither of these have any penalties attached either.

Maybe harder to make/more expensive weapons could be made stronger, so that the Shiv doesn't beat them on normal swings?

Related(3.5?)The purpose of weapon skills is not clear, as there is no info suggesting they are any stronger than a normal attack, so hit count is the only damage detail clearly given. Most weapon skills swing once, maybe twice with a follow-up skill, yet one of the basic skills given by Athletics(Arms, I think?) is Hail Strike, which swings 5 times and has a follow-up for a sixth hit, and the only penalty seems to be it's 20 TP cost(yet Focus gives 30).

Maybe weapon skill info could be clearer, if there is more than just dealing damage X times + maybe an ailment? If that really is everything to weapon skills, maybe they could be improved, so that they aren't outclassed by a normal attack?

4: Some amount of grind is good, and is in fact part of what kept me interested in this game, as I want to see the other talents and what they unlock, as well as other sex scenes. I don't mind going through the Mines a few times to make an equip, but the amount of Money needed to pay for everything right now seems to overwhelm all sources of income, especially since so much of that Money is spent gaining talents or opening up other things.

Despite earlier mention in the thread of the Brothel being good money, visits consume a base of 20 VP and WP(more if gangbang)(affected by Sex level it seems, which is slow to boost, but 12 at best?) along with multiple hours, and the best pay I have seen was around 83 coins, and I have seen many cases of 0 coins due to the client being unsatisfied for no clear reason. Is the pay chance and rate affected by Sex level? More in-depth info about Brothel pay and mechanics would be very helpful.

The best money grind I have found so far(with my available talents) seems to be the Mines by day with max Mining and Geo by day, and killing Wolves all night. With my 5 TGH, a hit from a Wolf does 1 damage. Each mining node is 6 VP at max(10 base), and the materials given are enough that I can consistently smith at least 1 Iron Shield to sell, along with any jewels, crystals, and Copper Ingots I got, while selling the Meat and any Leather not used in the Shield(s). Smithing is my only item creation talent, and I didn't realize during CharCreation how powerful the others could possibly be, even just for income. Even if the expected pay per Day in the mines with max Mining is worse than a Night of Brothel with max Sex, it's very consistent due to the Brothel often not paying anything. It also gives Crafting and Battle Exp, which can be used on so much, while Sex Exp seems much more limited.

Overall, I suppose most of my issues can be summed up with: Information is lacking(including visual/area design), ways to obtain it without asking the Dev or other players are minimal, and making up for that requires blind luck or sheer effort, which can be annoying and time consuming. Making the info available in-game would likely solve most of what I mentioned above(except maybe the stats for fighting NPCs)

Again, sorry if I came off as overly harsh.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
10
35
Thank you for the extensive feedback!

1: Is there any chance of improving visibility when moving around in the forest and mines? The darkness in parts of the mines can hide rats perfectly, and the only decent way to fight them is to wait for them to move out, or run around mashing to try and start a fight. It's not too bad, as they usually do move out while mining, but an alternate would be nice.

There are a total of 6 Rats and they do respawn if you re-enter the mines. To be honest they were designed to be that way, skittering in and out of dark places. I do plan to implement Torches, Candles and Lanterns but they will likely mostly boost visibility near you rather than effecting the whole map's light level.

, and a lasting way to remove trees or remove them from view(or just an option to hide them?). Maybe the NPC spawn locations+movement could be adjusted so they stay in visible locations? Maybe their spawn rates could be improved above 25%, so that hunting for them is easier? Maybe a check for NPCs in the room? Like "There are 2 Rats" or "There is a Swordsman", similar to how we can just press T to bring up the clock while walking around.

I'm going to pay closer attention where I spread out the spawn locations so they don't get covered up by trees, however, the NPCs move around at random and there is no way to pre-plan their movement path when their spawn locations are so random, so it is possible they will walk behind a tree. Removing the Trees or hiding them is unlikely as they are drawn on a Parallax layer, if I was to hide that layer it would make the whole map look like a flat field with stumps where the trees were.

And it sort of makes sense that an NPC could be harder to find in a forest in my opinion. With extra maps getting added in there would be a higher chance of finding a traveler on at least one of them. Though I should mention, their spawn rates do go up when they are needed for a quest, and the likelihood of the correct one spawning also increases.

That said, I have been considering adding a supernatural ability to "sense" nearby humans, which will notify you if there is a human traveler that spawned on the map you just entered.

Traveling Priest(10k coins for white magic seems massive, especially since his appearance is random, and income is poor). If it is someone useful, I have to guess at how much Intimidate I need for the Student Traveler, or what stats I need to win against the ones I fight.

Intimidate works of both your specialisation level and your Strength value. You can also knock out the Student if you are invisible by approaching him and hitting him over the head, owning a Wooden Club significantly raises chances of success.

Which leads to the next problem(2): The most useful NPCs are actually very strong in battle, alt methods to capture might not exist/be available to the player, and getting the stats to beat them isn't easy. I had 125 Max VP(10 from Commoner, 10 more from chest-found Twine Amulets), 2 Shivs(best 1h weapon I've found for offense), Iron Chainmail, 4 STR, 4 TGH, and 3 AGI with my equipment(4/2/3 when naked), and I had almost zero chance to beat Swordsman or Thief with this gear. I got crushed by both of them because of their 30~ damage per hit.

So I went and spent the next in-game week or two grinding in the mines. I opened up all 3 extra rooms, I pushed all Mining sections except VP to max, and managed to get an Iron Shield, Iron Platemail, and a Mace(for a chance of stun). I also pushed Athletics to 4 and its Arms skill to 3. This put my at 10 TGH and 1 AGI, so Swordsman now dealt 5~ damage per hit, and my best source of damage was still Hail Strike. Swordsman still managed to deal 30 damage before Hail Strike could take him down.

Without the Charisma skill, I seemed to be unable to Intimidate the Student Traveler, who I need for Saffron's sidequest, which meant that I was unable to advance that part without beating the Swordsman.

Well "most useful" is likely to vary from person to person, the NPCs weren't really designed to be similar in battle. The Thief is actually a pretty random fight in general because he has a high crit chance, he is pretty RNG heavy in terms of how the fight will go. However the Swordsman was designed to be one of the hardest fights.

You don't need the Charisma skill to take down the Student, it just gives a big bonus. You can also just knock him out by buying and using an Invisibility Potion or Scroll.

Also, you can buy the Charisma skill from Azalea on the second floor of the Goblin Brothel on Saturdays, so you don't even need the Swordsman NPC for that.

Are NPCs meant to be this strong, where 7+ TGH seems needed to endure their attacks? If not, perhaps they could be weakened a bit? If NPCs are meant to be this strong, perhaps better gear could be made available? Or perhaps a reliable alternate way to obtain better gear, such as better stock from the Smith as you do something? Smithing takes quite a while to level even once, and it feels like Iron Shield and/or Iron Plate is needed for some fights, like Swordsman and Thief. I only have Smithing level 2, so no idea what gear later levels give, or how reasonable it is to make, or how good it is.

The NPCs are sort of where I want them to be strength wise, but they could do with a bot more balancing. 7+ TGH should be more than enough to win against them, I'll do some testing on a more combat focused build with no consumables to see how they feel, though I have beaten all of them with 5+ before.

Better gear will be available, it's just at the moment there is only Iron as a material for Smithing, which was planned to be a Tier 1 material. There really isn't much past Smithing Level 2, as neither the materials not gear for higher levels have been designed yet. Same applies to pretty much all crafting disciplines, Level 2 is as high as it gets. There are a few things at Level 3 for some professions, but I mostly stuck them there because they aren't fully implemented and I didn't expect anyone to get that far. The Leveling curve on the crafting professions wasn't really designed to deal with anything above 2 at the current leveling pace.

3: Weapon variety that I have seen seems rather barren, as none of the weapons give STR, and most of the extra details don't seem too important, except for the Iron Shiv and Iron Mace. Iron shiv swings an extra time on normal attack, and using 2 of them stacks that effect, for 3 swings. Iron Mace has 10% chance to stun, which seems to be checked on each hit of multi-attack skills. Neither of these have any penalties attached either.

Maybe harder to make/more expensive weapons could be made stronger, so that the Shiv doesn't beat them on normal swings?

I will re-evaluate the weapons, the Shiv is going to get changed for sure. I plan to add more weapons too, though I would need to think of how to make them different to what is already available.

Related(3.5?)The purpose of weapon skills is not clear, as there is no info suggesting they are any stronger than a normal attack, so hit count is the only damage detail clearly given. Most weapon skills swing once, maybe twice with a follow-up skill, yet one of the basic skills given by Athletics(Arms, I think?) is Hail Strike, which swings 5 times and has a follow-up for a sixth hit, and the only penalty seems to be it's 20 TP cost(yet Focus gives 30).

Bladed weapons have a hidden +30% damage boost against fleshy, non-armoured, non-homogeneous targets. Hail Strike should be from Martial Arts, I will double check it though. That said, it would be hard to use Hail Strike every turn due to TP cost and using Focus does take a whole turn as well. Focus was mainly designed to help you power up to a Limitbreak skill which you get at Level 2 of the Specialisations.

Weapon skills are stronger than the basic attack, however, they are not as good as Abilities like Hail Strike. This is because a person with no Athletics skill can still use a Sword and the weapon skill associated with it, but they can't use the skills you get for actually taking the specialisation and really excelling at combat.

Maybe weapon skill info could be clearer, if there is more than just dealing damage X times + maybe an ailment? If that really is everything to weapon skills, maybe they could be improved, so that they aren't outclassed by a normal attack?

I will re-check this, as Weapon Skills did have a higher damage assigned to them in the equation than the normal "Attack" command.

4: Some amount of grind is good, and is in fact part of what kept me interested in this game, as I want to see the other talents and what they unlock, as well as other sex scenes. I don't mind going through the Mines a few times to make an equip, but the amount of Money needed to pay for everything right now seems to overwhelm all sources of income, especially since so much of that Money is spent gaining talents or opening up other things.

For the most part the pricing wasn't really designed to accommodate anything beyond Level 2s in most skills. There are a lot of "placeholder" cost values as well, especially on some of the material prices.

Despite earlier mention in the thread of the Brothel being good money, visits consume a base of 20 VP and WP(more if gangbang)(affected by Sex level it seems, which is slow to boost, but 12 at best?) along with multiple hours, and the best pay I have seen was around 83 coins, and I have seen many cases of 0 coins due to the client being unsatisfied for no clear reason. Is the pay chance and rate affected by Sex level? More in-depth info about Brothel pay and mechanics would be very helpful.

They pay rate actually varies depending on the client. There is essentially a satisfaction number for each client, with Goblins and Goblin Virgins having a pretty low number while MILFs and Gangbang groups have pretty high difficulty. There is a very large number of things that affects your performance in bed with them, ranging from your looks, traits, skill level, fetishes, titles, backgrounds, whether you Impregnated her, and actions you take during the actual Sex Scene. Getting significantly above the number (about 50% more) gives a significant pay off as well. A character which is focused on bedroom services can get 80-100 per shift on average.

I'll need to find some convenient way to insert a better explanation of this into the actual game without forcing anyone to read it. Maybe I'll add some book on the table that can be read for this info or something.

The best money grind I have found so far(with my available talents) seems to be the Mines by day with max Mining and Geo by day, and killing Wolves all night. With my 5 TGH, a hit from a Wolf does 1 damage. Each mining node is 6 VP at max(10 base), and the materials given are enough that I can consistently smith at least 1 Iron Shield to sell, along with any jewels, crystals, and Copper Ingots I got, while selling the Meat and any Leather not used in the Shield(s). Smithing is my only item creation talent, and I didn't realize during CharCreation how powerful the others could possibly be, even just for income.

You can still pick up most of the other skills from the NPC that appears in the Brothel on Saturdays. Artificing is probably a bit better (depending on the luck with jewels) because both Copper and Jewels are found by mining, so you don't even need to deal with Wolves at night. The down side is availability of Copper nodes though.

Even if the expected pay per Day in the mines with max Mining is worse than a Night of Brothel with max Sex, it's very consistent due to the Brothel often not paying anything. It also gives Crafting and Battle Exp, which can be used on so much, while Sex Exp seems much more limited.

You do get more Sex EXP in general per action, though it is mainly used to lower your Fetishes if they start getting out of hand. You can also use it to buy permanent boosts to Vitality and Will Power. You can do that with other skills too, but Sex EXP allows you to purchase both and the max cap for them is higher than from other skills.

Overall, I suppose most of my issues can be summed up with: Information is lacking(including visual/area design), ways to obtain it without asking the Dev or other players are minimal, and making up for that requires blind luck or sheer effort, which can be annoying and time consuming. Making the info available in-game would likely solve most of what I mentioned above(except maybe the stats for fighting NPCs)

That's understandable, I'm trying to slowly add the info as I go. The downside of making the game is that I know how everything works, so it is not easy to determine which parts I need to explain so I have to rely on people telling me which parts need more info on, to better nail down the explanations.

Again, sorry if I came off as overly harsh.

Not at all, it was a very useful read for me! Sorry the reply took a while though.
 

ShinkuTear

Member
Sep 9, 2015
7
1
Thank you very much for the detailed response! This extra info is actually very helpful, I had no idea about the Saturday Brothel NPC, as I had not seen any mention of them existing! Are there any other day specific things like that to be aware of?

Are there pre-placed Item Creation stations other than the various cooking stoves in town and the one anvil in the mines? I finally lucked out and caught the Student Traveler, so I have Alchemy... but I haven't seen anywhere I can use it at. Do I just need to hope the Goblin Merchant sells the item creation stations?
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
10
35
Thank you very much for the detailed response! This extra info is actually very helpful, I had no idea about the Saturday Brothel NPC, as I had not seen any mention of them existing! Are there any other day specific things like that to be aware of?

No problem, glad it helped! This is the only one that is day specific, she was added in the last patch, so only the patch notes mention her. She is kind of a temporary fix for alternative ways to gain skills which are not readily available yet. I should probably find a better way to notify players of her presence in game.

Are there pre-placed Item Creation stations other than the various cooking stoves in town and the one anvil in the mines? I finally lucked out and caught the Student Traveler, so I have Alchemy... but I haven't seen anywhere I can use it at. Do I just need to hope the Goblin Merchant sells the item creation stations?

Unfortunately, right now the only way to get one is either from the Goblin Merchant, as a rare drop from chests or crafting one yourself with the Construction Skill. There will be one public use Alchemy station added later when the next map is implemented. I plan to have an Alchemis Hut there, that the Goblin Merchant always mentions they raid, and inside will be a station to use like the Alchemy one in the Foundry.
 

DawnCry

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2016
103
70
31
The game seems quite interesting but I have a few questions:

-First of all it seems that heroines can be romanced and married, however, will we only have one married heroine or we can end up marrying multiple ones?

-Second is related to the first question, if we can end up marrying multiple heroines, would like to know if they can interact with each other (perhaps even lesbian sex scenes?)

-Third would be if there will be futanari heroines/characters

-Fourth is about how the relationship worsens and how they get a new lover. But this point is divided in multiple questions:

*Will we have to marry the heroine for the relationship to start getting worse if ignored?

*The possible new lover is it a unique NPC or a generic one

*Will you be able to win the heart of the heroine back or is it permanent?

*Can she get pregnant by her lover?

-Fifth is about the heroines, will they have fetishes that can be developed, dislikes and things like that?.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
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-First of all it seems that heroines can be romanced and married, however, will we only have one married heroine or we can end up marrying multiple ones?

You can Marry multiple, polygamy ftw!!

-Second is related to the first question, if we can end up marrying multiple heroines, would like to know if they can interact with each other (perhaps even lesbian sex scenes?)

There is currently only one, but interactions like you mentioned are planned. There will be other ways to use them as well, especially ones that don't have a stable job, like assigning them to run some stores for you or something.

-Third would be if there will be futanari heroines/characters

I am considering this. Though when I add them, there will be an option to turn them off for people who don't fancy that sort of thing.

-Fourth is about how the relationship worsens and how they get a new lover. But this point is divided in multiple questions:

*Will we have to marry the heroine for the relationship to start getting worse if ignored?

Usually yes, but it will also depend on the heroine. Some of them will just start giving you the cold shoulder until you bribe them with gifts instead of looking for love elsewhere.

The current heroine actually offers you Sex as payment for helping her out during a quest. If you accept, your status with her will change to Sex Friend, and the next day she offers to become Lovers. If you become Lovers, she will start insisting that you don't ignore her for long. So, the relationship can start deteriorating before Marriage too, if you accept to date her. If you decline to receive sexual rewards or if you refuse to Date her, she will start visiting the Brothel and having a life of her own. You can still change your relationship with her after you complete her whole Quest line. She can't be impregnated by anyone until her Quest line is complete for reasons she mentions at the end of her Quest line.

*The possible new lover is it a unique NPC or a generic one

It will depend on the surrounding environment. For Saffron, if ignored, she will start visiting the brothel and sleeping with whoever you donated there, which can be a Generic NPC or a unique one like Furo/Victor. If you did not donate any slaves to the Brothel, she will not be able to sleep with anyone even if ignored.

*Will you be able to win the heart of the heroine back or is it permanent?

At the moment, the current heroine just uses the brothel and does not pick up a permanent lover (unless you assign one to her through her quest). I don't have any plans to make any of the heroines ditch you permanently, so you will always be able to bribe them back with Gifts, etc. For Saffron, even if you assign a slave/lover to her she can still marry you, but she will not ditch her Slave (for now), she will just be open to having sex with both of you. There is even a Threesome scene if you decide to go that route.

That said, the only way to assign one to her is to refuse to impregnate her in her quest line. If you agree to knock her up, she wont ask you to find any slaves for her and her quest line will be completed.

*Can she get pregnant by her lover?

Yes, she can. She can also get pregnant from visiting the Brothel if you ignore her (assuming that there are any slaves in the brothel that is).

-Fifth is about the heroines, will they have fetishes that can be developed, dislikes and things like that?.

They already do to some extent, but the system might be expanded in the future and such stats may be added to their profile pages. At the moment, their likes and dislikes are mostly linked to your titles and traits/flaws.
 
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Corrupted

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Feb 9, 2019
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I played the game and I really like the basics of whats going now. Now if there is an end game will it be possible to finish the whole game and still be a virgin cause that would be hilarious in my opinion
 

FeyRing

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Aug 8, 2019
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I played the game and I really like the basics of whats going now. Now if there is an end game will it be possible to finish the whole game and still be a virgin cause that would be hilarious in my opinion

Most likely. I want the game to be winnable without you being forced into any sexual encounters... unless you lose a fight or something. But either way, there would be a way to finish as a Virgin!
 
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DawnCry

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Sep 18, 2016
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Personal opinion, the game is kind of great, but this setting isn't good for a virgin run. I feel that the game forgets the setting so that it makes everything optional, because rather than avoidable we can directly choose what happens.

At first I got a few seed of chaos vibes and thought it would be more forced on things, but that doesn't seem the case. Seeing how everything works the player has absolute control in... a femdom game as a male MC.

This is just my opinion but if you have a main fetish on the game and it is optional, it kind of loses the point. Especially when the fetish makes the player be on the submissive side, and everything else works like that. For example let's take our goblin heroine, after seeing your reply it was easy to note the repetitive point of "you have to do x first for it to happen", for example when you said that she won't take a lover unless you put the character in the brothel...

Unless I truly like a heroine I will be one of those that play the virgin run, the gameplay seems great, but having everything as optional even in that situation... at most I would understand that you could deactivate fetishes on the menu, some problematic ones like Nice Time for Roo so that people that are bothered by it will have it locked and on the other side those that have it activated should have a dynamic gameplay against it, but the main fetish is the main fetish.

Overall I desire you good luck with the game and that you can grow a lot, will be one of those virgin runs in the game in the future.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
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Personal opinion, the game is kind of great, but this setting isn't good for a virgin run. I feel that the game forgets the setting so that it makes everything optional, because rather than avoidable we can directly choose what happens.

At first I got a few seed of chaos vibes and thought it would be more forced on things, but that doesn't seem the case. Seeing how everything works the player has absolute control in... a femdom game as a male MC.

You don't really get to choose if you lose a fight though.

This is just my opinion but if you have a main fetish on the game and it is optional, it kind of loses the point. Especially when the fetish makes the player be on the submissive side, and everything else works like that. For example let's take our goblin heroine, after seeing your reply it was easy to note the repetitive point of "you have to do x first for it to happen", for example when you said that she won't take a lover unless you put the character in the brothel...

I'll admit, my interpretation of what "femdom" is might vary a bit to that of others. It was more supposed to describe what position the female NPCs take in Sex Scenes. Though I would mention that a significant amount of control does get taken away in some of the scenes depending on how far your in game fetishes have stacked up, and with some flaws certain fetishes can't be removed at all once obtained.

With the main Heroine I was trying to have a somewhat tame approach to her to test the waters of what players would find acceptable. I didn't really plan for all heroines to be doms in the first place though.

Overall I desire you good luck with the game and that you can grow a lot, will be one of those virgin runs in the game in the future.

Thank you!
 

DawnCry

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2016
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With the main Heroine I was trying to have a somewhat tame approach to her to test the waters of what players would find acceptable. I didn't really plan for all heroines to be doms in the first place though

Hmm, how about you don't put any "limits" but rather add anything you want to add but creating locks so that the players that dislike that they will be protected?.

For example:

-Enable Nice Time for Roo
-Enable heavy femdom
-Enable receive anal
...

You can directly have heavy things like that to be off at the start so that no one can say "they got that type of content by mistake", I have seen a few games use that and I personally find it better than having a lot of player input.

For example with the heroine, if enable Nice Time for Roo is off (which should be by default) even if she has really low love or feels ignored she will just get mad at you, won't try to find a lover or things like that.

It would give you freedom to do things more interactive rather than optional.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
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Hmm, how about you don't put any "limits" but rather add anything you want to add but creating locks so that the players that dislike that they will be protected?.

For example:

-Enable Nice Time for Roo
-Enable heavy femdom
-Enable receive anal
...

You can directly have heavy things like that to be off at the start so that no one can say "they got that type of content by mistake", I have seen a few games use that and I personally find it better than having a lot of player input.

For example with the heroine, if enable Nice Time for Roo is off (which should be by default) even if she has really low love or feels ignored she will just get mad at you, won't try to find a lover or things like that.

It would give you freedom to do things more interactive rather than optional.

I wouldn't be against doing it that way in the future. I want to get a bit better at understanding Menu design first though. I have a lot of "loose" items that act as placeholders for manipulating some of the simpler options. But once I can proficiently add it to the actual Menu I will likely do a significant overhaul regarding how some information is presented in game and would be open to putting actual options that disable some of the content all together.
 

DawnCry

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2016
103
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I wouldn't be against doing it that way in the future. I want to get a bit better at understanding Menu design first though. I have a lot of "loose" items that act as placeholders for manipulating some of the simpler options. But once I can proficiently add it to the actual Menu I will likely do a significant overhaul regarding how some information is presented in game and would be open to putting actual options that disable some of the content all together.

That would actually be great, there is a big difference between things being able to develop if you do nothing and having to do everything needed for it to happen. I have always thought that games should be designed to play with everything on and give a dynamic experience. Of course if you truly hate something there should be a way to opt out of it.

Having circunstances in which the player may be forced into something if they develop is more interesting than just fulfilling the requirements that are necessary.

For example if someone wants a heroine to cheat, they would like it more that it can happen naturally if you ignore them or you let them be seduced rather than preparing everything for her to cheat, for example another heroine may be more "dominant" and push her way towards the MC. It feels like developments that are more normal.

P.D: I would never expect a goblin to be a loyal girlfriend. Green girl with a pregnant fetish and a sex addiction isn't what I would call a faithful wife haha. Even more to manage multiple heroines I imagine at some point we will need a mansion and for them to live there.
 

TheDarkMaster

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Creator
Aug 28, 2015
1,052
259
Generally speaking I'm an advocate of clear telegraphing rather than hard content flags. That avoids putting giant lists in the player's face first thing when they start the game and lets things progress more naturally. Everything is optional *except* the main kink is a good practise for niche appeal games. Just be clear and upfront what that kink is and that it is mandatory. One thing that you can do for the more objectionable kinks is to have some sort of first time block/option, but stop giving the player a choice after that. Make it clear somehow to the player what kind of sexy times will happen, either with a direct info box for the player or by creating a situation that hints or spells it out. For example, the player could overhear a character lament they can't find something or you hear a rumor about a new arrival's kinks. The player then has to go out of their way to get that character's attention, though once they have it the player may lose control of the situation if that character's kinks call for it.

Having specific kinks tied to single characters is also good practise. Players who're into those kinks can pursue relationships with those characters and those who aren't can ignore them or use alternative means.
 

DawnCry

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2016
103
70
31
Generally speaking I'm an advocate of clear telegraphing rather than hard content flags. That avoids putting giant lists in the player's face first thing when they start the game and lets things progress more naturally. Everything is optional *except* the main kink is a good practise for niche appeal games. Just be clear and upfront what that kink is and that it is mandatory. One thing that you can do for the more objectionable kinks is to have some sort of first time block/option, but stop giving the player a choice after that. Make it clear somehow to the player what kind of sexy times will happen, either with a direct info box for the player or by creating a situation that hints or spells it out. For example, the player could overhear a character lament they can't find something or you hear a rumor about a new arrival's kinks. The player then has to go out of their way to get that character's attention, though once they have it the player may lose control of the situation if that character's kinks call for it.

Having specific kinks tied to single characters is also good practise. Players who're into those kinks can pursue relationships with those characters and those who aren't can ignore them or use alternative means.

Your view is clearly a good one, but we differ on how we see the game, I personally see every fetish and anything that happens as part of the gameplay, not as something optional. Basically having everything on would get an engaging gameplay and give the player a struggle. This means that having everything off would, on the contrary, make the gameplay less dynamic and engaging, because you have fewer struggles.

Of course to do that you need an actual full system that integrates it, which means more work. Basically I see every kink as part of the game, not something optional. Personally I believe this view could be more appropiate for this game but, that's just my personal view.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
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For example if someone wants a heroine to cheat, they would like it more that it can happen naturally if you ignore them or you let them be seduced rather than preparing everything for her to cheat, for example another heroine may be more "dominant" and push her way towards the MC. It feels like developments that are more normal.

I agree, I think it's just the way this village got set up in the first place, with no actual males in it (aside from one prisoner in the tower whom you can save).

P.D: I would never expect a goblin to be a loyal girlfriend. Green girl with a pregnant fetish and a sex addiction isn't what I would call a faithful wife haha. Even more to manage multiple heroines I imagine at some point we will need a mansion and for them to live there.

You will be able to get some of them to move in with you, like ones without an actual home. Those with important duties are likely to remain at home unless called on for in some event. Though, once there are a lot of heroines, a fast travel system of sorts will be implemented to save time in visiting them.

Generally speaking I'm an advocate of clear telegraphing rather than hard content flags. That avoids putting giant lists in the player's face first thing when they start the game and lets things progress more naturally. Everything is optional *except* the main kink is a good practise for niche appeal games. Just be clear and upfront what that kink is and that it is mandatory. One thing that you can do for the more objectionable kinks is to have some sort of first time block/option, but stop giving the player a choice after that. Make it clear somehow to the player what kind of sexy times will happen, either with a direct info box for the player or by creating a situation that hints or spells it out. For example, the player could overhear a character lament they can't find something or you hear a rumor about a new arrival's kinks. The player then has to go out of their way to get that character's attention, though once they have it the player may lose control of the situation if that character's kinks call for it.

Having specific kinks tied to single characters is also good practise. Players who're into those kinks can pursue relationships with those characters and those who aren't can ignore them or use alternative means.

This is exactly how I planned it initially. Where certain characters could be avoided if one is not into their specific kinks, and info about them would be available in advance through some sort of exposition.

Though I may add an option to turn off one or two features, especially things like strapons getting used on you, at least for instances where that sort of thing can happen by random chance, like the random encounter in the Brothel.

I personally see every fetish and anything that happens as part of the gameplay, not as something optional. Basically having everything on would get an engaging gameplay and give the player a struggle. This means that having everything off would, on the contrary, make the gameplay less dynamic and engaging, because you have fewer struggles.

If there is going to be a switch for turning off fetishes, it would likely be just the one or two which people find the most questionable. Though, chances are, if they turn them off some of the Heroines may become undateable altogether.

Of course to do that you need an actual full system that integrates it, which means more work. Basically I see every kink as part of the game, not something optional. Personally I believe this view could be more appropiate for this game but, that's just my personal view.

Having the actual Heroines be "optional" would technically make some of kinks be optional though would it not? I guess in theory the random enemy encounters could still force things on you but you could always avoid combat in theory, or just be so good at it that you never lose.
 

TheDarkMaster

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 28, 2015
1,052
259
Though I may add an option to turn off one or two features, especially things like strapons getting used on you, at least for instances where that sort of thing can happen by random chance, like the random encounter in the Brothel.
Toggles for the Brothel is probably pretty safe. Since the player character is selling a service, there can be a sign-up contract/sheet that the player can fill out for what they're willing and not willing to do. After all, the brothel probably wants you to keep coming back to work there and would at least allow for a few opt-out items. Story wise they might offer a bonus for their workers that DO agree to let anything be done to them, such as a better quality room to work in or top billing for advertising. They don't have to have straight up mechanical effects like a better pay rate, flavor ones are fine.
 

Brice

Member
Aug 21, 2019
16
0
30
So an error i have encountered, i can't increase Rouge's will above level 5 despite my Guile skill being maxed, there is also no reward for maxing out Guile like there is with other skills.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
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35
Toggles for the Brothel is probably pretty safe. Since the player character is selling a service, there can be a sign-up contract/sheet that the player can fill out for what they're willing and not willing to do. After all, the brothel probably wants you to keep coming back to work there and would at least allow for a few opt-out items.

This might be a pretty good alternative to hard switches, I'll consider it for sure!

So an error i have encountered, i can't increase Rouge's will above level 5 despite my Guile skill being maxed, there is also no reward for maxing out Guile like there is with other skills.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I have a pretty good idea what's causing it, namely a bug that got introduced when I separated the ability to "pickpocket" from the actual skill manual. I'll have it fixed in the next update and I'll make sure that the bonus gets added in to all characters that reached lvl 5 retroactively.
 

Brice

Member
Aug 21, 2019
16
0
30
Good to hear, also there seems to be an item spawn point in the main forest area, left of the lake that's in a dead tree, got a white feather there that i can't pick up.
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
10
35
Good to hear, also there seems to be an item spawn point in the main forest area, left of the lake that's in a dead tree, got a white feather there that i can't pick up.

Good catch, I can't believe I didn't notice it when I was setting the area codes for spawns. It will be fixed in the next release. I'm not sure if I can "despawn" the feather in your save game though. Is there any chance you have another saved game before you noticed the feather there?
 

FeyRing

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
88
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Hahaha, no. I am likely screwed on that front.

I'll look for a way to despawn it. Worst case scenario I'll make some item that lets you walk through walls for 1 or 2 steps once on that map so you can pick it up.