Your Gripes With CoC2

[Jstar]

maybe Tetsuya had a point about cherishing your dreams...

When he talks about yearning a dream long lost, he's not speaking out of a place of wisdom, he's speaking as a man that's stuck in the past and is listless. The idea of his content is that it explores the endeavor of overcoming the loss of a beautiful dream. The core idea is having the resolve to put your demons to rest, lest they hound your every step, and having the strength to forge a better, more hopeful tomorrow.

 

[Ace Hangman]

. . .
My issue first off is that Agni and Kiyoko are separate from the others completely, everyone else can be accessed from the Tavern and easily enjoyed there except for them which is odd, and while Kiyoko can make some sense, given how many kits you may have with her... Agni is a bit of an eyebrow raise and I may have missed it, but I didn't see an explanation outside of "I enjoy being in this temple"

To add to this though, you can access folks like Arona and Ryn despite them having unique position options eventually like Agni and Kiyoko so I am not quite sure why we can't also access them from that menu. Especially since I am pretty sure if they are in your party you can access them in the Companions menu, but not when they are chilling. Why doesn't this apply to Ryn and Arona then? (Not advocating for Ryn and Arona to not be accessible, just confused why Kiyoko and Agni aren't)

I also find it slightly strange to have the Wayfort be a thing you build up and your companions and a few of the guests not go over there as well instead of the tavern, let Gareth have his tavern instead of the love hotel you have turned it into presumably. Poor guy. Also, I do like the Wayfort and pretty much everything attached to it in my two current playthroughs, but I am I suppose hopeful the companions get some content in regards to being in the Wayfort as well. This just may need time and people to write said content.

I always try and think of it either as some content just hasn't been written yet and it's a possibility. I mean, we could try and wait for an author to try and come up with writing for every potential location or situation or scenario before they release it (and we may never have even gotten that content), or we can let them get the crux and body in play, and then let the secondary or tertiary places get worked on (or, wait to see what feedback people have or suggestions on things so they know what's desired), rather than just having a massive and impressive set of unimplemented potential.

As for the Wayfort, that location being built up is fairly recent and some options on 'Where do we put this person after they're saved/met/hired/etc. were pretty limited.'

 

[SylcarenBloodmoon]

I always try and think of it either as some content just hasn't been written yet and it's a possibility. I mean, we could try and wait for an author to try and come up with writing for every potential location or situation or scenario before they release it (and we may never have even gotten that content), or we can let them get the crux and body in play, and then let the secondary or tertiary places get worked on (or, wait to see what feedback people have or suggestions on things so they know what's desired), rather than just having a massive and impressive set of unimplemented potential.

As for the Wayfort, that location being built up is fairly recent and some options on 'Where do we put this person after they're saved/met/hired/etc. were pretty limited.'

I agree with your outlook on it as a whole. It is just a small gripe that I have with the game or more of an annoyance I suppose that we have to go out of our way a bit more just to interact with them. It isn't something that completely takes me out of the experience at the very least and I am hopeful that it may be eventually added. Though I will admit that I have not been following CoC2 for a very very long time so my knowledge of things and when they have been released is nonexistent. Thank you though for informing me on it being a more recent addition. I am gonna remain hopeful that it will be further expanded upon then!

 

[MagicGal]

Not sure if this should be put here or "Things you want to see added" but since I don't see anyone else saying anything I'll just drop it here.
Can we get TOBS a personal editor or something? There is like one instance I've seen where his dialogue flows and makes sense where I don't have to be guessing if I'm reading the character's dialog, the character's thoughts, and the narrator. It has to be on purpose but I don't see why, can someone explain?
You can see the difference between these two snippets of scenes he wrote.

 

[embersDiscarded]

They both read fine to me. I'm not sure which one you're taking issue w/.

 

[redlightnin55]

They both read fine to me. I'm not sure which one you're taking issue w/.

One features a vocal protagonist with dialogue, the other is a non-vocal protagonist represented by rudimentary interjected statements outside of quotations meant to represent them. These are quite different. One writer essentially adopted two completely different styles that change scene to scene, which is definitely odd, if nothing else.

It might be that they were written far enough apart that it was a more natural shift, if they were written years apart it's not that unusual to see writing style differences. I think the second one is at least somewhat newer, while the first one I can't really recall a timeline of. It could be new or it could be old for all I know.

 

[Furiae]

The "non-dialog dialog" is used by a lot of the writers to try and give reactions, but still make it rp-friendly, I guess? Tobs isn't the only one to still manage to put words/opinions in the player's mouth with it, but he does most consistently presume opinions completely opposite to my character's, so it ends up sticking out more.

IIRC, originally that was the preferred way of doing it, but changed at some point. (if I'm wrong, please someone correct me)

As for companions in/not in the fort - There are parsers the writers can use to switch locations between the frost hound/wayfort/camp - that's why certain scenes can be done wherever.
I would love if we could move everybody over to the fort and go full Suikoden with fucking.

 

[redlightnin55]

The "non-dialog dialog" is used by a lot of the writers to try and give reactions, but still make it rp-friendly, I guess? Tobs isn't the only one to still manage to put words/opinions in the player's mouth with it, but he does most consistently presume opinions completely opposite to my character's, so it ends up sticking out more.

IIRC, originally that was the preferred way of doing it, but changed at some point. (if I'm wrong, please someone correct me)

You're right that others do it, I think the issue's more that this one person is (at least as mentioned above) flip-flopping between the two styles. Again though I can't really testify if that's a change over time thing or a present day consistency thing. Memory's pretty hazy from only playing a small bit here and there for the last few months.

Though I don't think it was ever required. The design doc says something along the lines of "I don't care what insertpersonwho'snameIcan'tremember says about never putting words in the player's mouth, do it this way or that idgaf" regarding whether the player has dialogue or just inferred statements.

As for your sentiment about the fort, hell yeah.

 

[Ace Hangman]

Yeah, both methods are accepted and correct. As long as it's understandable and clear and the scene works. You typically would use the non-dialogue part if you're inserting thoughts or observations that the PC should know and don't want to have to then reiterate or repeat or parse those thoughts into a sentence that would basically just be repeating what you just told the reader.

Imagine the scene was like:
'You recognize that the old man has the stature of a trained soldier. He must have some things to teach you.'
"That's true," he replies.

It just saves you from just having your character make a whole statement about how you think he looks like a trained solder and has things to teach you. Whereas if you just went to the dialogue, the reader would be going, 'What? Where did it come from I think he's a former soldier.

 

[redlightnin55]

Sort of a gripe, sort of a "you might have missed this." Shouldn't the mushroom staff be giftable to Kalysea? It has the unique tag and a special effect.

Edit: Ah wait, metal, duh. I read it twice and somehow still forgot. lol

 

[furafurafura]

These been brought multiple times, ik the latter is impossible to happen but I just want to vent since ive been thinking about it again.
1.) I don't like how debuffs durations works vs enemies since it expire real quick; and the only way to extend the durations with the lv7 thief perks, meaning I cant do black mage(or any other classes than thief after the fact) specializing in hex/debuffs.
2.) Can't shootout webs from my spinneret

 

[Ace Hangman]

2.) Can't shootout webs from my spinneret

I assume you mean as a Combat Maneuver, like Tail Whap or whatever you get with a suitably clubby tail?
That does seem like something someone could submit. Obviously low-priority for most Creators (they have bigger things to focus on), especially since it's probably linked to a very specific TF (unlike tails, of which many would suit the Tail move).

You got me thinking about any out-of-combat scenes (or sex scenes) where that might also be fun. I wonder what the best parser to use to check for a spinneret. I don't think it's [pc.hasSpinneret] (at least it isn't in the Parser Doc yet..)

 

[Savin]

I assume you mean as a Combat Maneuver, like Tail Whap or whatever you get with a suitably clubby tail?
That does seem like something someone could submit.

It is not. We cut Tail Whack for a reason.

 

[Ace Hangman]

It is not. We cut Tail Whack for a reason.

I had wondered why I couldn't find it. I never used it myself. I was sure it had existed though.

 

[Tide Hunter]

I had wondered why I couldn't find it. I never used it myself. I was sure it had existed though.

I used it once or twice, it was pretty much never better than just pressing the attack button.

 

[Ace Hangman]

I used it once or twice, it was pretty much never better than just pressing the attack button.

Agree. One of the reasons I didn't even notice it was gone (I also have a horse-tail currently and I don't think that qualified), so didn't think anything of it. Give me my Lightning Fist and then just Tease.

 

[PalletTown]

I have a few issues with the appearance screen. First some characteristics are described in an overly vague way like hairstyle. Second body types don't seem to make any sense. Third, some characteristics like being a virgin inconsistently show up.

 

[Pezantri]

The neglected party members is a bit frustrating, especially when you're building a team. For example, Cait and Azzy just got yet another set, whereas Viviane and Agni have one each, and Atugia has... two, I think? Or how Azzy can become the star of a recent subquest, whereas Agni is... still in existence, I suppose?

 

[Dude_with_bad_english]

The neglected party members is a bit frustrating, especially when you're building a team. For example, Cait and Azzy just got yet another set, whereas Viviane and Agni have one each, and Atugia has... two, I think? Or how Azzy can become the star of a recent subquest, whereas Agni is... still in existence, I suppose?

Well Cait and Azzy are quite popular, so no wonder there's more content with them. Atugia definitely needs more love, she's so cool!

As for Vivi and Agni, judging by their authors' posts both of them are quite busy, so it's unlikely that these characters will be expanded anytime soon (although Vivi seems to have a better chances).

While on the subject of Agni, I'd say she's breaking from the ranks of the companions. A legendary creature - an immortal phoenix that has lived for God knows how long, possessing vast life experience and powerful magical abilities. For a game whose slogan is "No power phantasy for you, bastard!" to give such a companion looks strange, well, or it's just a mockery of such (It's okay as long as specifically WE don't get something "TOO MUCH").

I mean she looks like the main character, more than we do! She makes Champ look like some kind of a 1lvl crook in comparison (well, Champ isn't particularly cool at most of time, but against the backdrop of a person like that, it's the most noticeable).

If there was an option to pick a companion from the harpies, I'd vote for Zhara! As far as I'm concerned she's better at everything, Agni isn't even saved by the possibility of growing dick!

 

[Pezantri]

Well Cait and Azzy are quite popular, so no wonder there's more content with them. Atugia definitely needs more love, she's so cool!

As for Vivi and Agni, judging by their authors' posts both of them are quite busy, so it's unlikely that these characters will be expanded anytime soon (although Vivi seems to have a better chances).

While on the subject of Agni, I'd say she's breaking from the ranks of the companions. A legendary creature - an immortal phoenix that has lived for God knows how long, possessing vast life experience and powerful magical abilities. For a game whose slogan is "No power phantasy for you, bastard!" to give such a companion looks strange, well, or it's just a mockery of such (It's okay as long as specifically WE don't get something "TOO MUCH").

I mean she looks like the main character, more than we do! She makes Champ look like some kind of a 1lvl crook in comparison (well, Champ isn't particularly cool at most of time, but against the backdrop of a person like that, it's the most noticeable).

If there was an option to pick a companion from the harpies, I'd vote for Zhara! As far as I'm concerned she's better at everything, Agni isn't even saved by the possibility of growing dick!

Azzy and Cait are both popular and have been around a long time, so it makes sense that they have more content than other newer and/or less popular characters. I understand both those points, they're just becoming increasingly less reasonable excuses as time goes on.

Agni is a fair point, honestly, and kind of makes it more puzzling why the work put into her versus Zhara is wildly disproportionate. Zhara could have easily gone down the route of adding herself to the party with a line like "you keep doing fun- I mean dangerous shit without me, guess I've got no choice but to keep an eye on you"

 

[SmithEK]

Agni and Viv do need more companion content. Even though these two are some of my favourite companions I do kind of forget about them when I start new playthroughs especially being so late in the game compared to Cait, Brienne, Ryn and Arona.
I know Cait is a favourite (still now sure why apart from her healing abilities) but I didn't think Azzy was well liked not compared to Cait & Brienne.

 

[Dude_with_bad_english]

Azzy and Cait are both popular and have been around a long time, so it makes sense that they have more content than other newer and/or less popular characters. I understand both those points, they're just becoming increasingly less reasonable excuses as time goes on.

Agni is a fair point, honestly, and kind of makes it more puzzling why the work put into her versus Zhara is wildly disproportionate. Zhara could have easily gone down the route of adding herself to the party with a line like "you keep doing fun- I mean dangerous shit without me, guess I've got no choice but to keep an eye on you"

The birds have different authors, I don't know what Savin's plans for Zhara were originally, but the door for new companions has long been closed (we even lost one) so tough luck.

 

[Tamsee]

Regarding "X is more popular, therefore it's obvious they will get more content" it's best to keep in mind that a vicious cycle is a common thing. If something is neglected, people think less of it, so there is the idea of "Why waste time and money on it if it's not so hot". If something keeps getting content on the other hand, it is at the forefront of people's mind, therefore it is more attractive to keep expanding.

For example, Kitsune getting some deep NPC preggo content causes a spike of interest in it, so more and more preggo floofs, to the point where it feels like, aside from critique on various issues, this is what we keep seeing the most in forums about them.

 

[Pezantri]

The birds have different authors, I don't know what Savin's plans for Zhara were originally, but the door for new companions has long been closed (we even lost one) so tough luck.

Mhm, just pointing out how strange it is that the content from the non-companion birb utterly dwarfs the content from the companion birb. And you would think that not adding anymore companions would allow for development of the ones we've got, but... not so much. The menagerie of writers they've got working on this game lends itself to the consistent inconsistency of content being added often, but often not in a cohesive fashion.

 

[Gabranth]

Well, being in the middle of nowhere doesn't do Agni any favors.

Out of sight, out of mind, as they say.

 

[Tamsee]

Isn't that how the entertainment business works? Authors are more likely to create content that resonates more widely and positively with the majority. So yes, it's a vicious cycle.

Far as I recall, Agni initially got quite a lot of appreciation when she got introduced, although her kit kinda made her redundant for most people fast. So we have a phoenix, who is somewhat popular, becoming less popular due to the design and lack of content, not due what the people want to see.
Edit: demand for something dwindling because the supply of this something just isn't there is not proof that something wasn't popular - just thought I should mention it in regard to how business works.

 

[Dude_with_bad_english]

Agni and Viv do need more companion content. Even though these two are some of my favourite companions I do kind of forget about them when I start new playthroughs especially being so late in the game compared to Cait, Brienne, Ryn and Arona.
I know Cait is a favourite (still now sure why apart from her healing abilities) but I didn't think Azzy was well liked not compared to Cait & Brienne.

We definitely need some sort of poll voting (most likely on a third party resource) to determine the popularity of the companions.

Something like being able to choose three contenders consecutively (so it's 3, 2, and 1 point respectively).

Of course most likely the first three positions would be firmly occupied by Cait, Brienne, and Ryn, but I think Azzy's position would be high as well.

Oh and there's bound to be a Berwy there too, because... No one is forgotten, nothing is forgotten...

 

[SmithEK]

We definitely need some sort of poll voting (most likely on a third party resource) to determine the popularity of the companions.

Something like being able to choose three contenders consecutively (so it's 3, 2, and 1 point respectively).

Of course most likely the first three positions would be firmly occupied by Cait, Brienne, and Ryn, but I think Azzy's position would be high as well.

Oh and there's bound to be a Berwy there too, because... No one is forgotten, nothing is forgotten...

Nah Wynne was a crap companion, awful in a fight.

 

[Tamsee]

It might be better to consider a "What companion needs new content the most?" poll. Popularity poll would most likely show that companions who get frequent updates are most popular.

 

[Greyfox643]

Viv and Agni are written by Balak and B respectively.

Balak is Eternally Punished and Eternally Busy in the coding/writing mines for MSQ it seems. I'm almost certain he will add Viv content down the line, but I think all of the Big Redname writers are all focused on the next leg of the MSQ.

I have no idea what happens with B. They seem to randomly poof for awhile then show back up with a bunch of stuff on their personal projects.


At the very least, It can be said that they will have unique dialogue for MSQ stuff. I Dislike it when our companions don't have vocal opinions about the big story beats that effect the world.