Your gripes with CoC II
- Thread starter Narmlet
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yeah I never even tried to give it to her. I knew from the moment I saw the announcement on Patreon that if I was giving the spear to anyone, it was the party's resident cuddlebug. So far I've had no cause to regret it.
I am, to an extent anyway. This game may be a porn game but that's still 50% game by volume. Big adventure games like this love them some mutually-exclusive choices and branching paths, and when playing such games I always consider the benefits for the party as more important than for NPCs unless prioritising the party would be objectively immoral or just straight up evil and I'm not playing a villain. Azzy is a companion I bring into the field and have sex with, so she gets a lot out of it. Evelyn is an NPC I've long accepted is just not my scene; at most I might do it once sometime down the line out of curiosity but it's not at all a priority especially when she's already an older lady dickgirl domme so that fundamental truth wouldn't change.
Hahahahaha-None of them. Harley Quinn is easily the worst comic book character I know of, overrated, overexposed and terminally obnoxious. None of the companions remind me of her.
I'll begin this with one of my usual disclaimers: This complaint feels pretty selfish and it is absolutely subjective, and I could just be wrong. In addition to that, writing is hard work and I know firsthand just how difficult things can be. So there's absolutely no intended disrespect in anything that I'm saying here. Hopefully nothing comes off that way, and I'm terribly sorry if it does. Words are hard.
With that out of the way, this touches on one of what I feel is the core attraction of Corruption of Champions in specific over other NSFW games like Subverse: The transformations.
In specific, I'd like to focus more on the transformations that you witness rather than undergo, as the transformation descriptions for the player are overall pretty good, though if I went digging I'm sure I could find plenty where I'd like to see more detail. But the transformations that happen to your companions have begun to feel kinda... Lackluster?
In specific, I'll point at the scenes that I think do a pretty nice job, and a few scenes that I wish were a little bit better.
On the positive end of the spectrum, we've got Brints transformation into Brienne. The overall transformation scene itself isn't that long, but it does provide you with an exceptional amount of detail as to what's happening to them. Following this up is Cat's transformation into Leo Cait, although this scene is itself not my favorite since I think Liresh and Syrish overwhelm the scene instead of just letting Cait transform, it's overall not that bad in terms of actually telling you what's happening, although there are some details that I think could be better.
On the other end of the spectrum, we've got Viv's Demon transformation and, unfortunately, Azzy's new set.
Demon Viv's transformation is nestled at the end of an excellently written scene, but the transformation itself feels very meh. We're told the basics of what happens, but it feels like there's no passion to it. It almost feels like a copy and paste of a basic bullet list and then nothing. (Also as an aside I wish that she could be pushed into undergoing more intense transformations, potentially making Kasyrra envious?)
Meanwhile, Azzy's new transformation/set doesn't even feel like it gets a transformation at all. Azzy grabs you and goes "Hey something's happening" and it's just completely glossed over. We get a pretty good writeup of how she looks afterward but how we got there is completely skipped over.
Truth be told, it's kinda spoiling my enjoyment of these scenes. Not that I'm saying they're bad, but it's more the difference of something being 6-7/10 rather than 8-10/10. Again, as I said in the disclaimer, it's very much that this is an extensively subjective gripe, but it's something where a good chunk of the reason I'm here feels like it's falling by the wayside, and I can't help but be a little disappointed. I know a good chunk of the response will probably be "Would you like to write that?" and I could certainly give it a go, but I can't help but think that the writing for a game with an extensive focus around transformative items wouldn't skimp on said transformations, even if they aren't yours?
Maybe I'm wrong, but this has been itching around in my brain for a good while.
With that out of the way, this touches on one of what I feel is the core attraction of Corruption of Champions in specific over other NSFW games like Subverse: The transformations.
In specific, I'd like to focus more on the transformations that you witness rather than undergo, as the transformation descriptions for the player are overall pretty good, though if I went digging I'm sure I could find plenty where I'd like to see more detail. But the transformations that happen to your companions have begun to feel kinda... Lackluster?
In specific, I'll point at the scenes that I think do a pretty nice job, and a few scenes that I wish were a little bit better.
On the positive end of the spectrum, we've got Brints transformation into Brienne. The overall transformation scene itself isn't that long, but it does provide you with an exceptional amount of detail as to what's happening to them. Following this up is Cat's transformation into Leo Cait, although this scene is itself not my favorite since I think Liresh and Syrish overwhelm the scene instead of just letting Cait transform, it's overall not that bad in terms of actually telling you what's happening, although there are some details that I think could be better.
On the other end of the spectrum, we've got Viv's Demon transformation and, unfortunately, Azzy's new set.
Demon Viv's transformation is nestled at the end of an excellently written scene, but the transformation itself feels very meh. We're told the basics of what happens, but it feels like there's no passion to it. It almost feels like a copy and paste of a basic bullet list and then nothing. (Also as an aside I wish that she could be pushed into undergoing more intense transformations, potentially making Kasyrra envious?)
Meanwhile, Azzy's new transformation/set doesn't even feel like it gets a transformation at all. Azzy grabs you and goes "Hey something's happening" and it's just completely glossed over. We get a pretty good writeup of how she looks afterward but how we got there is completely skipped over.
Truth be told, it's kinda spoiling my enjoyment of these scenes. Not that I'm saying they're bad, but it's more the difference of something being 6-7/10 rather than 8-10/10. Again, as I said in the disclaimer, it's very much that this is an extensively subjective gripe, but it's something where a good chunk of the reason I'm here feels like it's falling by the wayside, and I can't help but be a little disappointed. I know a good chunk of the response will probably be "Would you like to write that?" and I could certainly give it a go, but I can't help but think that the writing for a game with an extensive focus around transformative items wouldn't skimp on said transformations, even if they aren't yours?
Maybe I'm wrong, but this has been itching around in my brain for a good while.
And that your story and your sticking too it lol. Then good for you myself though I can think of more overrated comic book characters.
But I won't I deleted the original post anyways, because this is where we talk about the gripes. We have with the game, that post about "which companion reminds you of Harley Quinn". Felt out of place here that wasn't a gripe, so I deleted it.
However I do have one gripe with that Raphael guy that tries to kill Kinu. Did you have to give him the same name as my Favorite Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, lol?
Raphael is a callback to the similar fencer thief character from COC1 of the same name, who shows up in Champion's camp and steals from them, to then become their teacher in fencing in return for a date, and later met running an orphanage in Tel Adre (with options along the way to rape him and make him vanish, or later give him up to the Tel Adre city guard). Apparently Tobs felt his character felt very predatory and skeevy, so the Raphael character in this game is sort of a protest character of sort towards that. At least that is the explanation given in the Trivia section of the Wiki.
Another gripe I have is that it seem like the only weapons, that get enchanted. Are swords, "Champion your going on a mission to retrieve, a powerful artifact." "Let me guess it's a Sword right?"
Where's the enchantment love for Axe's. So far Kas is the only one wielding a powerful, enchanted axe. Maybe even Aileh, but the champ don't get to join that party, why?
Where's the enchantment love for Axe's. So far Kas is the only one wielding a powerful, enchanted axe. Maybe even Aileh, but the champ don't get to join that party, why?
Right now there are an enchanted hammer and a mace, multiple spear/javelin types, a brace of magic throwing knives, a magic flaming knife, the Chrysanthemum Petal is a magical throwing star and there's a couple of magical staffs/rods to be found. Oh, and one magical Horni Whip. Just off the top of my head.
No magical axes for the player though, yet at least.
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Riiight I forgot to add all that, and you also forgot the War Scythe, the Beast Killer Bow, and Storm Glaive.
But still no Axes, I wonder if I could write out an event submission for one.
Submissions are open, but Savin has said previously that they generally do not accept any submissions for equipment alone, especially for Uniques. You'd probably need at least an involved event or a mini-dungeon to get a special weapon considered.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
I like how this is possibly a thing and yet they also wrote Komari and her collection of some of the most fucked up bad ends in the game, and then the rest of her content tries to paint her as pitiful and sympathetic when she'd pull that shit on you for walking in to ask about a missing bag.
That rapist bitch feels fairly predatory to me, but what do I know?
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Of course they're not, the game doesn't just forcesave the moment you get one, it's a scenario that could of happened if the champion had lost there.
Seeing as there are three of them possible for Komari in this encounter alone with escalating levels of sadistic cruelty, though, I think it's a safe bet to consider it a substantial enough addition to her characterization.
If they were just supposed to be crazy 'what ifs', they would of been actually relatively crazy and varied, rather then three and a half substantial word dumps detailing how much of a genuinely morally repugnant shithead she is. Actually has one of the games more realistic depictions of rape under her belt.
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Should've known that would be the case. I'm still trying to come up with some Bear-Morph TF, stuff. So I'll see how that goes before I try even thinking of a mini-dungeon.
I believe the lack of companion TF's is due to the difficulty that comes with coding/writing them. Not the transformation scenes themselves but all the extra parts afterwards. The biggest example that I see cited pretty often is Rin, due to her confidence/submission score on top of having access to breast and booty TF items. Multiple transformations means that a writer has to go over one scene multiple times to make sure that all the different possible transformation combinations are planned and accounted for. The bigger the game gets the more work that one character becomes as you need to continue to add in all their variations to every scene they participate in. So while I agree that I'd love to see more descriptive scenes of our companions undergoing a transformation I can also understand why they probably just won't happen.
I also wanna add that my favorite transformation scene is giving Rin purple eggs. I think her reaction to suddenly being THICCC is hilarious.
TLDR: I got a lot issues with CoC2 some of them opinionated, others technical, and some I think are just straight up gameplay design flaws but I think it does a lot good in the narrative gameplay space. Since its nowhere near finished I think if these are highlighted I think this game would be all the better for it.
First I'll start of with the positives; I really like the fact the appearance of the PC is given a semi-concrete look that is customizable and acknowledged to a certain extent, the erotica on display is horny and varied asf (speacial shutout to SkoW, B, Savin, and Observer, they don't miss). The context sensitive nature of companion dialog is a treat and its nice to discover and its a habit of mine to save at times where I think are major events to replay it with other comps just to see who says what, there's a nice combinations of quest types some even having 4 or 5 variations on how things playout (whoever or the ppl that designed the Spectres of the Wyld, the mission that intros Hethia, The Cowgirl mission at the outskirts of Khor'minos and Convocation of Mirrors; I just have to say y'all are going places, well funking done), descriptions of moves during combat tend to be hit or miss but they are nice and the context sensitive items that give comments during combat are a nice touch. The overall artstyle of the game feels consolidated because there aren't 20 different artist with 20 different styles of drawing to mucking up the aesthetic so the game gets to develop this sense of a cohesive artstyle even though you can tell the differences in "penmanship" and skill level between the few.
Now for the Cons: 1. Grammar Errors and Redundancies are abundant and flourishing, I do not envy the Editor if there even is one, I'd recommend for the writers to dl Grammarly, I personally use it for projects, texting, and work emails so maybe it can help them too.
2. The writers need to come to consensus on whether they want to give us a character with established traits and personality or a blank salute for us to mold using actual roleplay (if I see someone reply to me about imagination, I'm going to tell you to imagine yourself not being up your own bum so you talk less shite) because the character's personality changes from writer to writer drastically even if the content that you swing for is in the same ballpark, because of this the PC becomes a blob being everything all at once while being nothing at all for the player. (very similiar to the protag of P4 or Dragon Born of Skyrim)
3. Combat is boring most of the time and the difficulty just sliding damage modifiers isn't enticing either, tho I'm told that there is another difficulty being considered and I hope the neglected resource management portion of the gameplay loop comes into focus for this difficulty. If the game designer does go this route Darkest dungeon and its mod scene are the best sources for inspiration on how inventory and resource management can be used to create difficulty for a game based around tile movement.
Opinions: Player agency is something that should observed and taken into when writing scenarios/scenes, for every scene that takes into account the players stat for roleplaying purposes there are several others that force the player to agree to something regardless of how they'd feel (looking at Kiyoko's content <_<) or change their personality to fit the scene or fetish. If anything I'd say that the game needs more options that are not just subtle stat checks but are solid decisions similar to choosing what positions and what body part to touch that take into account the origin of the player (those are used in a way that is way too niche to be important) that isn't just flavor text and perks are absolutely neglected when they would be perfect for writing smutty scenes e.g. Cum cascade and Messy Organism are begging to be written into the 69 sex scenes for never-ending ouroboros shenanigans'. (SkoW is a saint for even giving the player options) I'm saying all this because I think there is lot of potential here that could be realized with a few steps. And if anyone doesn't understand at all what I meant in the this massive paragraph here's a couple vids that breaks it down even further and in bitesize pieces:
and should you need more info or you're just an game design-info goblin like myself check out GMTK for more information and techniques.
Gameplay needs a shot in the arm; its really boring seeing the text saying the player and comps swing everything not sure how hard it is to code lines specific for specific weapons but it would definitely lively up the combat that my character doesn't just swing his spear but thrusts it the exposed flank of his foes or Slashes his sword across his foe and vice versa for the enemies. Another thing I'd like to ask of the head gameplay director/designer (I think their name is Hilde) is if the environment can be factored into combat? Whether it be by simple buff like classic Fire Emblem or you could do a deep dive in a way similar to other games ( an example is a romhack for Pokémon that bring locations in account, here's' a link should you or anyone be interested https://pokemon-reborn.fandom.com/wiki/Field_Effects)
First I'll start of with the positives; I really like the fact the appearance of the PC is given a semi-concrete look that is customizable and acknowledged to a certain extent, the erotica on display is horny and varied asf (speacial shutout to SkoW, B, Savin, and Observer, they don't miss). The context sensitive nature of companion dialog is a treat and its nice to discover and its a habit of mine to save at times where I think are major events to replay it with other comps just to see who says what, there's a nice combinations of quest types some even having 4 or 5 variations on how things playout (whoever or the ppl that designed the Spectres of the Wyld, the mission that intros Hethia, The Cowgirl mission at the outskirts of Khor'minos and Convocation of Mirrors; I just have to say y'all are going places, well funking done), descriptions of moves during combat tend to be hit or miss but they are nice and the context sensitive items that give comments during combat are a nice touch. The overall artstyle of the game feels consolidated because there aren't 20 different artist with 20 different styles of drawing to mucking up the aesthetic so the game gets to develop this sense of a cohesive artstyle even though you can tell the differences in "penmanship" and skill level between the few.
Now for the Cons: 1. Grammar Errors and Redundancies are abundant and flourishing, I do not envy the Editor if there even is one, I'd recommend for the writers to dl Grammarly, I personally use it for projects, texting, and work emails so maybe it can help them too.
2. The writers need to come to consensus on whether they want to give us a character with established traits and personality or a blank salute for us to mold using actual roleplay (if I see someone reply to me about imagination, I'm going to tell you to imagine yourself not being up your own bum so you talk less shite) because the character's personality changes from writer to writer drastically even if the content that you swing for is in the same ballpark, because of this the PC becomes a blob being everything all at once while being nothing at all for the player. (very similiar to the protag of P4 or Dragon Born of Skyrim)
3. Combat is boring most of the time and the difficulty just sliding damage modifiers isn't enticing either, tho I'm told that there is another difficulty being considered and I hope the neglected resource management portion of the gameplay loop comes into focus for this difficulty. If the game designer does go this route Darkest dungeon and its mod scene are the best sources for inspiration on how inventory and resource management can be used to create difficulty for a game based around tile movement.
Opinions: Player agency is something that should observed and taken into when writing scenarios/scenes, for every scene that takes into account the players stat for roleplaying purposes there are several others that force the player to agree to something regardless of how they'd feel (looking at Kiyoko's content <_<) or change their personality to fit the scene or fetish. If anything I'd say that the game needs more options that are not just subtle stat checks but are solid decisions similar to choosing what positions and what body part to touch that take into account the origin of the player (those are used in a way that is way too niche to be important) that isn't just flavor text and perks are absolutely neglected when they would be perfect for writing smutty scenes e.g. Cum cascade and Messy Organism are begging to be written into the 69 sex scenes for never-ending ouroboros shenanigans'. (SkoW is a saint for even giving the player options) I'm saying all this because I think there is lot of potential here that could be realized with a few steps. And if anyone doesn't understand at all what I meant in the this massive paragraph here's a couple vids that breaks it down even further and in bitesize pieces:
Gameplay needs a shot in the arm; its really boring seeing the text saying the player and comps swing everything not sure how hard it is to code lines specific for specific weapons but it would definitely lively up the combat that my character doesn't just swing his spear but thrusts it the exposed flank of his foes or Slashes his sword across his foe and vice versa for the enemies. Another thing I'd like to ask of the head gameplay director/designer (I think their name is Hilde) is if the environment can be factored into combat? Whether it be by simple buff like classic Fire Emblem or you could do a deep dive in a way similar to other games ( an example is a romhack for Pokémon that bring locations in account, here's' a link should you or anyone be interested https://pokemon-reborn.fandom.com/wiki/Field_Effects)
Not most overrated, worst. An overrated character can still be good. But for me, she's basically DC's Wolverine. A new character introduced some time after the start of the original franchise who was a big hit with the fans, but the suits' efforts to cash in on that popularity brought with it an extended push into both other parts of the franchise and crossover stuff, even if just in a minor role, to bump up sales and in the process a lot of what made them interesting and likeable was lost. I look at DC shoving her into places she arguably doesn't belong just to pump up the mainstream appeal and I groan audibly now. But, moving on.
As has been said, the shared name is coincidental. Though it does remind me of this hilarious image.
Yeah they should give us some magic/enchanted axes. My Orc main is feeling left out.
For a game designed as a direct sequel to the original CoC, it's kind of funny how much salt they apparently still have over fan behaviour and/or characters from back then. But really, this universe's version of Raphael being a jerk is the least of the Kinu sidequest's problems. I wish there weren't so many walls of text in it.
You know that reminds me. Please Savin and co. don't make transformatives you can give to companions so hard to acquire. Purple eggs are not at all cheap or easy to find in bulk, and Shar needing several days to grow 1 egg makes her an inefficient delivery service.
Edit: No, I'm not sorry for posting links to TV Tropes. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
When not just save editing them in, these days when I can't randomly find the purple eggs just doing the regular quests there and maybe one or two Shar eggs, I just wait with the embuttening until after I've taught the foxes their natural place in life (warming my feet that is) and buy all the eggs from Kohaku once they randomly show up there, while getting the other randomly occurring stuff I need from her.
TLDR: Plague of gripes about mechanics and loot.
Back again with a plague of gripes to spill, there are a few technical issues I’d like to point out and a couple of unsolicited opinionated recommendations for game design I’d like to suggest. I understand that money, time, adherence to the development schedule, and just straight-up conflicting ideas might trigger an eye-roll from some, but hear me out, first “technical” issues:
1. This is something I’ve noted with The Observer’s content specifically: I’ve read a lot of books from A Song of Ice n Fire to Lord of the Rings; Lovecraft and various books in his expanded universe to various interactive novels; to official erotic books like Fifty Shades of grey and Anonymous Sex. I have never seen characters answer another characters’ thoughts when lines were used to portray the character thinking and not in a “out-loud” way unless telepathy wasn’t involved. There are a lot of these disrupted dialogues and I know they’re disrupted because the other writers have done similar scenes where the PC thinks to themself then inquires the other character into dialogue.
2. Underutilized and un-incentivized mechanics are an issue. I did not know Taxanomy existed in this game until the Wiki; here should be perks that give you an edge against a specified type and, as a balance, give us some sort of weakness or debuff of some sort. Ashelander dialog options should have an additional benefit other than just smut; mediation removing 1 corruption is a step in the right direction if stingy (it should be an rng roll of 1-3), Cleaning her should give you a buff to either attack power, crit damage & rate, or adds bleed damage to each attack, shafting could give you defensive buffs like getting 30% of fire damage taken as health; porn for porn's sake is masturbation, but if that porn as a function that is tied into another core gameplay element like combat, tile exploration, or roleplaying & narrative, then it's a mechanic. There need to be more perks in the game that also focus on other elements besides dick-length; combat & gameplay is one element and narrative is another. Regardless, they need to be mentioned more and used in scenes, dialogue, and erotica. Perks from Fallout1 and Fallout New Vegas, and quirks from Darkest Dungeon are good examples y'all could use for inspiration.
3. This more of a pet peeve than anything but alternate routes for side quest should be rewarded properly; one good example of great quest design whose rewards were lacking is the Dog Days quest, specifically the point where you talk Hethria down. There is no reward other than a slight variation on the same sex scene; there are no long-term changes in your relationship with each-other, no item unique to that situation, or some permanent stat increases/changes or Perks. Meanwhile, Convocation of Mirrors is what I'd consider perfect, but it's unfinished, as much as I love how emergent Spectre of the Wyld is it suffers from the same issues as Dog Days; it rewards every route with increasing loot and context.
Wishlists: There should be some interplay between DoTs in a mechanical way. I do like that they effect at least two stats at a time but they could be more unique and less dependent on numbers; say if a unit is blighted and bled, they get an initiative penalty, bleed itself should stack; burn is really strong so it should have pros and cons even working against other dots by removing bleeding upon cast but increasing bleed damage taken by a percentage once the burn sticks, having a unit bleeding and burning at the same time should trigger the dots every turn another unit takes a turn. Frigid should stack and upon having 3 stacks should freeze the unit (Pokemon style freeze is perfect for emulation but with crush resistance getting a bigger buff); It's another stun, but it's mechanically driven by turn economy. Dots are mostly ignorable outside the characters like Kiyoko and Vivianne, so giving them a lot more presence and combat depth would make them more interesting and threatening.
Back again with a plague of gripes to spill, there are a few technical issues I’d like to point out and a couple of unsolicited opinionated recommendations for game design I’d like to suggest. I understand that money, time, adherence to the development schedule, and just straight-up conflicting ideas might trigger an eye-roll from some, but hear me out, first “technical” issues:
1. This is something I’ve noted with The Observer’s content specifically: I’ve read a lot of books from A Song of Ice n Fire to Lord of the Rings; Lovecraft and various books in his expanded universe to various interactive novels; to official erotic books like Fifty Shades of grey and Anonymous Sex. I have never seen characters answer another characters’ thoughts when lines were used to portray the character thinking and not in a “out-loud” way unless telepathy wasn’t involved. There are a lot of these disrupted dialogues and I know they’re disrupted because the other writers have done similar scenes where the PC thinks to themself then inquires the other character into dialogue.
2. Underutilized and un-incentivized mechanics are an issue. I did not know Taxanomy existed in this game until the Wiki; here should be perks that give you an edge against a specified type and, as a balance, give us some sort of weakness or debuff of some sort. Ashelander dialog options should have an additional benefit other than just smut; mediation removing 1 corruption is a step in the right direction if stingy (it should be an rng roll of 1-3), Cleaning her should give you a buff to either attack power, crit damage & rate, or adds bleed damage to each attack, shafting could give you defensive buffs like getting 30% of fire damage taken as health; porn for porn's sake is masturbation, but if that porn as a function that is tied into another core gameplay element like combat, tile exploration, or roleplaying & narrative, then it's a mechanic. There need to be more perks in the game that also focus on other elements besides dick-length; combat & gameplay is one element and narrative is another. Regardless, they need to be mentioned more and used in scenes, dialogue, and erotica. Perks from Fallout1 and Fallout New Vegas, and quirks from Darkest Dungeon are good examples y'all could use for inspiration.
3. This more of a pet peeve than anything but alternate routes for side quest should be rewarded properly; one good example of great quest design whose rewards were lacking is the Dog Days quest, specifically the point where you talk Hethria down. There is no reward other than a slight variation on the same sex scene; there are no long-term changes in your relationship with each-other, no item unique to that situation, or some permanent stat increases/changes or Perks. Meanwhile, Convocation of Mirrors is what I'd consider perfect, but it's unfinished, as much as I love how emergent Spectre of the Wyld is it suffers from the same issues as Dog Days; it rewards every route with increasing loot and context.
It even has what I'd call a BloodBorne-insight/Lovecraftian moment where you learn the Gods were all tentacle monsters; which is also immersion breaking when the PC greets the gods like everything thing is good when they know these gods were voidborne soulsuckers. (<_<)
Wishlists: There should be some interplay between DoTs in a mechanical way. I do like that they effect at least two stats at a time but they could be more unique and less dependent on numbers; say if a unit is blighted and bled, they get an initiative penalty, bleed itself should stack; burn is really strong so it should have pros and cons even working against other dots by removing bleeding upon cast but increasing bleed damage taken by a percentage once the burn sticks, having a unit bleeding and burning at the same time should trigger the dots every turn another unit takes a turn. Frigid should stack and upon having 3 stacks should freeze the unit (Pokemon style freeze is perfect for emulation but with crush resistance getting a bigger buff); It's another stun, but it's mechanically driven by turn economy. Dots are mostly ignorable outside the characters like Kiyoko and Vivianne, so giving them a lot more presence and combat depth would make them more interesting and threatening.
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CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Sorry to pester, but would you mind throwing a spoiler over this bit? I'm sure there's a few people floating around who haven't figured out the big twist yet, don't want to ruin it for them.
And do you remember any scenes specifically where this happens? I typically skim over content written by Observer these days since their writing style is not one I'm particularly fond of, but you've gotten me a bit curious.
As Antler said, people will usually keep this hidden behind spoilers, on account of it being a massive bit of lore.
Aside from that:
They're not really tentacle monsters. Like, originally, they were wraiths, which are "beings of formless entropy," which isn't really a tentacle thing. But even aside from that, that's more of what they were. They, perhaps, technically still are, but they've been given physical form and the ability to feel emotions, and have pretty much fully taken on the persona of the gods they emulated that they think of themselves as those gods. They're not horrible monsters in disguise, and despite their origins, they are, for all practical purposes, no longer wraiths.
These are already accounted for, either with specific Powers (Banishment behaves differently against Ethereal and Construct enemies) or because the elemental weaknesses of particular enemy types are specifically targeted. There's a reason that the Beast Killer bow does Blight damage: It's targeting that taxon's -75 Blight Resist stat.
Repeatable Corruption-reducing mechanisms are designed to be fairly low because it's meant to be easier to gain the stuff than to lose it. It's spelled out right in the game's primary design doc. The big exception is the Cloister and that requires both Winterstem and a whole bunch of in-game time to balance things out.
The game is designed to not have a gear treadmill, so making any weapon that's extremely overpowered (and giving one weapon the ability to grant multiple possible buffs most certainly would be) would either make that weapon game-breakingly powerful or it would require every future encounter to be balanced around it, penalizing players who don't use Ashe. Either way would be an incredible amount of work because one person didn't think a weapon that already is very good, unlocks multiple types of sex scenes and gets special lines on crits isn't Super Speshul enough already.
This sounds like a fascinating idea... for a game where the focus is all on the combat and not on trying to find a nice middle ground between 'Smutty text adventure where you're just selecting options' and 'Fucking end this fight already, I've been stuck fighting these mobs for half an hour!'.
Also, damage over time already has a very significant use: Bypassing shield HP. If you inflict an enemy with Burning, Poisoned or the like, the damage those do is applied directly to health instead of having to work through any shield effect that the enemy has. It doesn't need a dozen edge case combination effects to be useful.
I see what your saying but it's not like the characters themselves have, any real say. The people that use Harley as click bait. Deserve your anger not Harley herself but, still you bring up a good point. "Hey look everyone at this new comic book. With all these characters and if your still not satisfied, we'll throw in Harley Quinn as a bonus. So act now".
But like you said moving on, this a Forum for gripes. With CoC 2 not DC or Marvel so back to that.
CasualAntlerEnjoyer
Well-Known Member
Neither are a great many of HP Lovecraft's own horrors, their actual nature is often completely beyond possible comprehension for the three dimensional meat mind, and so with some of them the closest thing the mind can fathom to the real deal is 'squid' I suppose, in the way that it's this convoluted thing reaching out in all directions.
Saying something is tentacly can be a simple way of saying that something is a lovecraftian/eldritch horror, which a formless entropy being from beyond the material universe most definitely would qualify as, even if it's rather lovecraft-lite with how they're written here post god-cosplaying.
Taking on a physical form or not doesn't really change that, Nyarlathotep, perhaps the most prominent of HP's Outer Gods, appears in human guise all the time whilst also being the most comprehensible in thought process at a glance. This does not change the fact that Gnarly is likely a large aspect of the mind of Capital G God, whom themselves is a sleeping storm of nuclear chaos at the center of the cosmos, given will of it's own.
Emotions and meat doesn't disqualify the potential squid, quite a few of big names in HP's mythos displayed both, and even then 3 out of 4 of the Seven you can interact with display extreme issues with empathy and responsibility, as do all Seven when you remember that they're willing to let Kas's schemes play out, which in the most favorably interpreted scenario is them thinking it will help the surviving wraithtouched in the long run, a far smaller group in comparison those they're actively allowing to fall into physical, spiritual and mental torment.
Sorry about ye ol' giant post out of nowhere, I like talking about this sort of stuff.
Saying something is tentacly can be a simple way of saying that something is a lovecraftian/eldritch horror, which a formless entropy being from beyond the material universe most definitely would qualify as, even if it's rather lovecraft-lite with how they're written here post god-cosplaying.
Taking on a physical form or not doesn't really change that, Nyarlathotep, perhaps the most prominent of HP's Outer Gods, appears in human guise all the time whilst also being the most comprehensible in thought process at a glance. This does not change the fact that Gnarly is likely a large aspect of the mind of Capital G God, whom themselves is a sleeping storm of nuclear chaos at the center of the cosmos, given will of it's own.
Emotions and meat doesn't disqualify the potential squid, quite a few of big names in HP's mythos displayed both, and even then 3 out of 4 of the Seven you can interact with display extreme issues with empathy and responsibility, as do all Seven when you remember that they're willing to let Kas's schemes play out, which in the most favorably interpreted scenario is them thinking it will help the surviving wraithtouched in the long run, a far smaller group in comparison those they're actively allowing to fall into physical, spiritual and mental torment.
Sorry about ye ol' giant post out of nowhere, I like talking about this sort of stuff.
Nah, it's good. I noticed this with their early game content but it becomes less prominent the further you get in the game; I can only assume it's only because they were relatively fresh at writing a story and are getting better. A good example of many is:
She really does have a lovely body while in this form... you can't wait to see what it's like when you're wringing every last drop of cum out of it.
Kas grins wickedly. "Well, get started already. We'll see what you're capable of."
Oh yes. Before you're done with her, this dick-kitten's going to blow the biggest load of her life all over the room.
"I'll take that as a promise!" Kas snickers, giving Cait a little push back and spreading the kitty's pale thighs. "Be rough with me, my Champion. Conquer this body as if it were my heart." -From the Solo Kas/Katherine scene in Cait's temple.
My entire thought process is that Champ is thinking to himself/herself what they'll do to her on the first line but she replies then in the second line, next the Champ is clearly speaking to her in the third line but there's no "' to highlight this so you have to be using context and common sense to follow scenes, not to mention its supposed to be a solo scene but Cait is still mentioned.
Observer's content is really good imo but its stuff like this that pulls me out because it happens often and its inconsistent, so sometime you see this quirk pop up in their writing and others their doing things the standard way.
I get what you are trying to say that their nice ppl now but you have to undertand the is significance of this info is lost if the character is forced to be all accepting, there has to be at the very least moments where PC has to mentally grapple with the fact that they ate ppl inorder to become a person. We meet an unformed wraith at the end of the Ice Palace and a wraith in the middle of feeding in the Valkyrie side quest. We know how deceptive and hungry wraiths are, how do we know that the Gods aren't acting to keep the cattle sated?
Let's say you meet someone and you hit it off with them, you both grown close and they tell you that they had to kill ppl in order to get to your side of the country; how would you react?
Even if at the end of the day the writers choose to make them all shroud goodguys, playing up that plot point and drama up is necessary, the fact the PC doesn't acknowledged this feels either forced or negligent.
Let's say you meet someone and you hit it off with them, you both grown close and they tell you that they had to kill ppl in order to get to your side of the country; how would you react?
Even if at the end of the day the writers choose to make them all shroud goodguys, playing up that plot point and drama up is necessary, the fact the PC doesn't acknowledged this feels either forced or negligent.
those are very niche options but I get that your saying it's acknowledged to an extent but Like I said negligible at best, I waltz through the game without knowing they existed till the Wiki, that should not be the case.
I'd agree with you if any of that mattered; time doesn't matter because there is no pressure on the player; those ingredients and requirements aren't too hard to get for the cloister, and Zo is a far better and less clunky way to reduce corruption. The only reason I choose 1-3 rng is because gambling keeps ppl hooked and rolling for 3s would keep her meditation relevant while not making the others redundant.
I gave options not like I want her to have them all; one offensive buff and one defensive buff (you give it or you take it ;p, Ludo-narrative harmony), if they want balance they can tweak the numbers and make them hr based so the player has to reapply that buff if they want it. The multiple sex scenes thing is not unique and not a draw in itself, we the pc are flushed for choices in that regard and the only draw is that she livens up combat with crit comments, thats why incentives are necessary to keep her scenes relevant.
Tbh I'm hoping for more enemies that aren't just walking fap material. The wolves that attack in the Old Forest were so refreshing for me; the fact that there are npcs, lore, and stories that talk about how unruly or wild and dangerous the world is you never get that feeling because everything just wants to fuck you. The difference between this and say Monstergirl Quest is that at least they kill off the characters and have bad ends and scenarios where ppl die or vividly describe when the characters get viciously stomped out or deliver a stomping.
I see what you're saying. It just irks me is all.
This is a fair line of questioning. But there's a fairly simple explanation.
You know the Gods are on the level because this isn't a story about antitheism or Devil sympathy. This isn't Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, where they allow people to operate from the position that "Hey maybe God is wrong and we should fight against Him," or "Hey maybe the Devil has the right idea and we should work with him," or even, "Hey maybe God & His Angels and the Devil and his Demons both suck, and we should strive to create a world free of both of them." The closest they come to any kind of "Worshipping the Seven is bad, actually," sentiment is the Ice Elf Druids who complained that the Winter City and other surviving territories converted to Lumian worship after feeling the Old Wyld had failed them and in the aftermath, the Queen and her Royal Harem became estranged and ultimately died with broken hearts and lingering regrets. Even then it's a morally grey situation and Lumia even says "My bad" when Ryn asks her about it. I guess there's room to discuss Keros transforming Komari into a yasha and her centuries-long suffering, but even that wasn't cruelty for its own sake and carried at least the promise of death once she truly atoned for her failure.
There's also the fact that Kasyrra's arrival and transformation of people into demons and monsters is treated as an unambiguously bad thing, even to people like Alissa who are arguably demons already. Compared to Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, this view of the Gods in the setting is very charitable, even with the ex-Squid Monster backstory. If they wanted to they could have gone in a very different direction where the Gods were the antagonists and Kasyrra was a hero for trying to stop them. The fact they didn't do that is something I take as a cue to not question it too much.
There's also the fact that Kasyrra's arrival and transformation of people into demons and monsters is treated as an unambiguously bad thing, even to people like Alissa who are arguably demons already. Compared to Asura's Wrath or Shin Megami Tensei, this view of the Gods in the setting is very charitable, even with the ex-Squid Monster backstory. If they wanted to they could have gone in a very different direction where the Gods were the antagonists and Kasyrra was a hero for trying to stop them. The fact they didn't do that is something I take as a cue to not question it too much.
To be entirely frank the 'gods' of CoC2 are a bunch of wanked out sues compared to how gods were portrayed in the previous game (and will be portrayed in comparison to the favoured new DM's holy OCs if things were to continue as was originally planned in the design documents, being a loser jobber antagonist that gets his power absorbed by the Kitsune).
The previous Gods of CoC1 could be corrupted and overcome by the actions of the demon hordes, the new ones are not only literal and figurative sex gods but aware of everything and could individually all destroy Kas and her army with a single pinkie like they were characters from DBZ but just... don't. They (and the wraiths by extension) have story-breaking levels of power for no real reason except perhaps the head Dev is such a big fan of D&D and writes his 'gods' accordingly.
People behind this game have long claimed that it isn't a power fantasy for the player character as an answer to various situations, and that seems mostly true, its more often a power fantasy of the developers or individual writers and their concepts.
The previous Gods of CoC1 could be corrupted and overcome by the actions of the demon hordes, the new ones are not only literal and figurative sex gods but aware of everything and could individually all destroy Kas and her army with a single pinkie like they were characters from DBZ but just... don't. They (and the wraiths by extension) have story-breaking levels of power for no real reason except perhaps the head Dev is such a big fan of D&D and writes his 'gods' accordingly.
People behind this game have long claimed that it isn't a power fantasy for the player character as an answer to various situations, and that seems mostly true, its more often a power fantasy of the developers or individual writers and their concepts.
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