You mean the part after the first dungeon where the Champion's entire movitvation was thrown out the window and it turned out the whole quest (and the entire portal-guarding mechanic, too) were entirely pointless?
Your gripes with CoC II
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Banishment one-shots the Earth Elemental, at least in my experience.
Aside from that, it may be important to get the bonuses you get from sleeping to traverse the path, aside from the bonus from either trail rations or bento boxes.
The Champ gets a soft motivation baked into his chosen background, explaining why he is in the Marches in the first place and then three main plot hooks on top of that in the form of Kas's threat, the lure of her power (or her ass) and caring about Cait. For pretty much any proactive character you can imagine one ir seceral of those will provide sufficient motivation, and then comes the side content and the machinations of all the magical assholes that seem to have all the power in these lands. Getting one up on Kas, the Baroness, Evergreen, Keros and his pet fluffy horrors at the same time is high on the list of goals for half of my characters.
Getting one up on Evergreen... how would someone do that? She seems rather powerful.
Is that Evil Evergreen still a thing? I don't know...
She sleeps all day and is hella depressed. Carmen doesn't belong in a group with those others.
Yeah, it's called stabbing the disgusting tanuki so no one has to deal with her and her repugnant actions ever again. I doubt she's anywhere near as powerful as Komari or Kas. I'm pretty sure she's evil, she just doesn't broadcast it outside her home too much so those hero types don't come after her. Stupid heroes. Always rolling and back hopping everywhere, and silently breaking jars for money.
Banishment has massive bonus damage against ethereal and construct enemies. But it can also be used once per entire trip, unless you're putting up a tent every five feet, and Earth Elementals are NOT as uncommon as they should be.
Yes, I do bring a couple of tents to be used as disposable. There's practically no safe enough space in the undermountain to pitch a tent and it be a permanent camp.
It makes sense that nowhere is safe, you're running around in tunnels. Anybody going your way is required to walk straight through the middle of camp. Heck, some of the minotaur patrols probably just kicked it down because it was blocking the path.
By the time we will get to the point where the Champ and Crew are able to become an actual roadblock or siginificant help to Kas and her plans, dealing with one clan of weird 'nuki casters shouldn't be impossible. Whether or not we will be given an opportunity - no idea; it will be a bummer if not. Same with everyone else on my list. The only thing that got hard confirmed as out of the question when I asked is seriously harming the Seven through our own schemes, gotta play the second fiddle to Kas.
I mean, from what we see of her Oxana spends all her time breeding little nukis and baking them tasty cookies. She is barely more proactive than Carmen in a stereotypical reclusive witch kinda way, helping people for an unconventional and morally dubious price. Both the Baroness and Lady Evergreen are shady as fuck and kinda sorta soft confirmed by Aryugia to suck souls or deal very closely with soul suckers. Carmen specifically is a shitty neglectful ruler on top of everything else, one that my more power hungry characters would love to relieve of all those bothersome lands, titles, riches and magic secrets.
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Don't care what anyone says Evergreen may be evil (still not seeing it) but damn I'll happily sell my soul to her.. It would be nice to know exactly how many brats we mother/sire for Evergreen though.
Lone Wolf115
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There's something big behind the Earth Elemental, if you use Quin's ability where he cloaks himself in fire the elemental takes resolve damage. Just a theory of something bigger behind it.
you can just run from the elemental. unlike the other enemies down their the run option for the elemental never seems to fail.
That's because resolve damage does not always equate to "erotic warfare". If I remember it correctly, it gets also affected by Bimbo Azzyrran's Allure.
Evergreen would set off Detect Evil if that were a thing in the setting and the reason more hasn't been done there is that due to how many things Savin's been working on, we've just gotten the last of her base content and there's more to come via expansions. Which side you wind up taking whenever that content arrives is up to you.
You've noticed how she has two different sorts of daughters, right? Some more human-looking and some more furry? There's a reason for that.
Well i noticed the furry ones tend to be kinda bimbofied compared to say Meira and Senja. I take it the reason will be made clear in future content or I've stupidly missed it. What eevr happens I'm team Evergreen.. gotta love ourselfs a sexy villain.
Lone Wolf115
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Yep, Kinda understand how that champion could start letting themselves turn into a demon after that twist.You mean the part after the first dungeon where the Champion's entire movitvation was thrown out the window and it turned out the whole quest (and the entire portal-guarding mechanic, too) were entirely pointless?
Been about 3 years since I actually played CoC so detail are bit fuzzy so forgive if I make mistake but what was wrong with it?You mean the part after the first dungeon where the Champion's entire movitvation was thrown out the window and it turned out the whole quest (and the entire portal-guarding mechanic, too) were entirely pointless?
Since, well, it was a pretty nice simple twist. You were never ment to protect your village or people. You were sent there as a sacrefice, as nothing more than tool to appease the beings beyond the temple or something like that. . But now, since you are free of any obligation torwards them, you can chose what you want to become. To either actually turn yourself into lands savior you were supposedly sent there for or its ruler. It makes everything more personal. And frankly, much better from power fantasy perspective since you being the chosen one is not what made you the "champion". You being you is what makes you cool.
It also kind of removes to some extent narrative-dissonance from players perspective. It serves as justification for why supposedly pure champion can get so corrupt so fast. Since, well, once again, they are nothing special. It removes any sense of hurry on players side since they do not really need to save the word imidietly. We learn that it is already ruined, so it is up to us make most out of it. As wise man once said "things can not really get 120 percent more fucked".
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That is my gripe with CoC 2 the champion has no real reason to go on the corruption path unless they are a complete horndog or a schemer. I think this can be fixed by having scenes where your companions tell the champion to actually explain to them why they are letting demons have sex with them. We get that kinda in the winter city and when the champion lets demons live in Winterfort, but it is more we see the companions angry but seem to get over it by the next scene.
We need the Champion to start facing consequences for this besides a corruption number going up. Like maybe Cait leaves because she starts doubting you have the world's best interest at heart or that she can't live with herself seeing you throw away your soul like that. This could lead to the champion showing their true colors as they could use the The crystal that Kas gave them in the Winter city To recruit Kas to rough up your companions and force them back on your team. Showing the champion has already greatly fallen to corruption to the player and will do anything to stay in control.
Allure and everything in Quin's arsenal do qualify as erotic warfare. So the Earth Elemental being succeptible to them is either an oversight (same as Fire Elemental summon) or, as Lone Wolf said, a clue to something unusual going on.
As Brienne already says as you defeat it, why the heck did the elemental get so mad at the champion as to try and kill him/her and party. Some fuckery going on behind that indeed.
Lone Wolf115
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I say it's at one of two places the area straight a head from the gate the green tiles I think that was the colo away from the city, or somewhere in Windy Peaks.
She's also gathering dark arcane knowledge, using children as currency, and literally everyone sees her as evil. Including her creator. Every character who knows her warns the champion to be careful around her because she's dangerous and can't be trusted and will probably try to turn the champion into some tanuki slave if she gets interested enough.
Nobody will dispute that Carmen sucks at being in charge. But she's done nothing shady and she doesn't suck souls. She's a cumpire. She literally just sucks dick for sustenance. Which is way different than actually eating souls and everything Evergreen does. Carmen does not belong in the same group with Evergreen and Kas. Unlike those two, she actually tries to help people and just sucks at it. I don't know where you're getting her being evil and/or shady. In short: Carmen=shitty ruler but not a bad person. Evergreen=Dr. Badger but a pregophile instead of bimbophile.
Yeah that. Unfortunately, time constraints being what they are, EG/Carmen plotline keeps getting delayed. It's very interesting IMO but not really pertinent to the main plot. Ideally once Khor'minos is done I'll have the chance to swing back around and fill the Nice and Innocent Witch Ladies out considerably.
Ironically Carmen has the first and oldest card on our Trello organization board. It has never been moved out of "To Do."
Yeah that's the thing though: you don't actually have any choice outside of bad-ending yourself early. You have no actual REASON to do anything at all after the Factory Dungeon (you don't need to protect the portal. The reason you were in the area in the first place is a lie and you now have no reason to pursue it. The demons' one and only objective in the entire game -- corrupting the Lake -- has been shut down, potentially permanently -- and there's never a single hint that the demons have anything else in the works until the end of the game when it turns out "oh they actually were planning on an invasion after all lol").
The default ending Fen wrote is also entirely devoid of choice in and of itself -- it's entirely reactive based on your Corruption score and how many demons you've killed (the more the better, more or less regardless of Corruption) -- but you at least also get the choice of just becoming Lethice's champion instead of bothering to fight her or (if you have a specific item) redeeming her. So that's nice.
Okay then, but will we eventually start getting more events that can push away our companions?
Yeah, Evergreen might be my favorite character in the game, along with the dryads.
With all the talk about being able to stop or oppose her somehow, I deeply hope there's a Team Tanuki route.
If people write them. Cait, for example, will never abandon you. You can already get rid of Arona and Azzy.
Just removing Companions is the least interesting possible thing you could do though, imo. Getting them real fucked up or destroying their lives/ambitions/selves is way more interesting. You can already dick over Arona, and I'd like to put more content down her Exile line later (either Bimbofication or Demonification or w/e -- something to balance out losing the Orc Camp on her Chieftain line). You'll definitely be able to really tool Etheryn later re: Soulstone key.
Oh yeah for sure. If you wanna be Mommy's Favorite Breeder that's totally fine too.
I get what you mean. From plot progression standpoint, the game kind of stops there. But not fault of the twist in itself which is my point.
I would argue that it is what helps the game somewhat chug along to the finish line, no matter how bare bones it ended up being. Since we learn that we do not have really any obligation in protecting the portal, it supports the game more sandboxy feel that was already present up to that point. We can take our sweet time, explore the wild, unfamiliar wasteland at our own pace (still one of the most unique settings found in porn) and meat and interact with locals how we (game) see fit. Not really overarching choices, but many small ones related to different characters. Which was also supported by games portal mechanic which used seamy random encounters and exploration to throw player from one location and character to another.
Which as a motive justifacation, as flimsy as it is, suits the game more. After all, if I remember right, Fenoxo never really had any grand plans to how its story and content was supposed to flow from one another. The game and its contents were just half hazardly thrown together to fill specific different niches and character archetypes. While true it is not really story related drive, it obviously worked since game is still fondly remembered by many. Maybe not for the story and its big bad, but certainly for its characters,world and all different scenarios you found yourself thrown into.
The default ending is something Fen threw in last minute to shut people up so that they would not bother him to finish the game since at that point production on TiTS was well truly underway if I remember right. Using it as any sort of evidence as to why the game hook does not work is mute point since by its own design, it was created just for ending sake as stop of any hope for continuation. At least from official developers.
Oh nice. I was worried that the concept of corrupting/breaking your companion was falling to the wayside. But than again, I only hear it from you and Wsan since you 2 are most active participants when it comes to corruption talk. Not sure about other writers and how they feel about that whole corruption thing.
Still, good to hear that Arona exile route still is on your mind. I am not really into Demofication or Bimbofication, but latter sound better to me. Would something like slave route also be on the table.
As for Ryn, good to know that her bully thing can play major part in how her characters develop. When reffering to Soulstone do you mean us basically gaining the the ability of her sister in when her cage can and can not get off?
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Ah, the eternal tension in RPG design: absolute "WTF to do?" freedom sandbox and a thrilling railroad.
It's made clear when you compare to TiTS. Yes, there's also a rival, but it's also made excessively clear from the start that the player is Heir of Steele Incorporated. It technically makes everything the player does reflective of or off of the Steele Legacy. So the rival feels like he's going steal that Legacy of the Heir doesn't shape up.
I'm sorry but compared to that, Kas as a threat to the World just feels less intrinsically motivating for the Champ. The exception that proves the rule being the romance route in which the Champ goes out of his way to show interest in her. And without a proper setup, I don't know if her just showing up everywhere would improve that.
I don't think CoC1 had a portal mechanic so much as it used a menu that felt like you zipping around from place to place. Something I also miss.
I don't think much will be lost of Hawkthorne was turned into a menu. There's a reason the old school dungeon crawls went with that.
I was mostly joking with my description of Lady Evergreen, mirroring what I thought was your tongue in cheek description of the Baroness. I am aware of the way she grooms her daughters and commits to honest to G-d parental incest; by itself it is almost enough to outweigh the fact that she has most of my top fetishes rolled into one pudgy package. That's why she is on the list and the second we have confirmation of her actually abusing her daughters, she moves to the very top of it, above Kas and Tollus both.
Worth noting that people of Hawkthorne warn the Champion (or rather warn Cait that conveys it to us) to be careful around Oxana, but also say that she has
been a reliable source of aid in various situations that required her knowledge. Similarly, Hinata describes her as being fair, but dangerous and intolerant of people truing to cheat her or those who fail to show proper respect - something very much expected of any powerful witch.
I never called Carmen evil, I simply don't know enough about her ye to make such judgement, especially since I haven't experienced her latest content drop. As for why I think she is shady and suspect her of non-fun SUCC: when you "feed" Hinata and his group while Atugia is in your party, she volunteers to join, mentioning that she is accustomed to having her abundant life force sucked out of her in a similar fashion by someone else - though she refuses to mention by whom. Then, while the two fox girls feed on her she is surprised by them actually bothering to pleasure her and going with her wishes, instead of simply ripping what they need out of her in a far less pleasant manner, like she is used to. Add to that her life span, her interest in magic, her complete disinterest in mortal affairs, and her hinted ties with other shady magic users, like Lady Evergreen - in total that is enough to earn her a preliminary spot on the list.
The first two installments of Gothic has straddled that line quite well, IIRC. In both the devs de-emphasized the big-bad-stopping-prophecy-fullfilling plot for most of the games' length while still laying down its pieces consistently, focusing instead on interactions with and between factions and on actually overcoming the fact that your character is a fresh-faced rando loser, starting at the bottom of a brutal hierarchy. The game world, relatively small and dense as it was, became open to you almost right away and the game didn't hold your hand. It just had no qualms about pushing your shit in hard if you tried to crawl into places you weren't supposed to be yet, but it rewarded you handsomely if somehow you pulled that off.
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