Your Gripes With CoC2
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But we do get to help the druids. We get them their temple back, and defeat the renegade Wyld Tree who turned their forbears into mossy ghosts. And that's after we play a crucial role in healing the schism between them and the Winter City elves. If you meant "Help them stay loyal to the Wyld Trees and bring back druidism to spite Lumia", well, that's definitely not happening. Besides, I think we've seen proof positive that the Wyld Trees aren't necessarily better/immune to the pitfalls of the Seven.
But why?i think i said before, years ago, i wish i could have the option of trying to wipe out the kitsune to save the wyld trees, even if it went all drakengard and i got a bad end for the attempt. i get that content like that is probably way lower priority than progressing the mainline story, but if this was a tabletop campaign, that's what i'd be doing
Another day, another person who wants to murder hobo kitsune. I get not liking them but they literally arent doing anything other than being in the ttree.i think i said before, years ago, i wish i could have the option of trying to wipe out the kitsune to save the wyld trees, even if it went all drakengard and i got a bad end for the attempt. i get that content like that is probably way lower priority than progressing the mainline story, but if this was a tabletop campaign, that's what i'd be doing
I started trying the ashen leaf on one of my PC and for some reason, it listed her as a chimera even though most of her traits are salamanders now. And no matter how many times I edit some of the stuff in the Save Editor, even changed the race section of it into salamander, it still keeps saying the same thing. Is it a bug with the ashen leaf since some of the traits it include is draconic according to the wiki or is it a bug of a different kind? Edit: Now I just tested some stuff and for some reason, having any horns OR any wings make my character NOT be considered a salamander but if I remove those and leave the draconic tongue, they're consider a salamander for some reason. I had and have salamander PCs that has some draconic traits and they were considered salamanders still, what makes the Ashen Leaf different. I know it turns you into a corrupted salamander but it's still a SALAMANDER!
Wyld elves are not the old wyld.
The... the kitsune aren't the ones who are attacking the wyld trees? It seems pretty clear that you haven't actually kept up with the lore, since it seems like you're only interested in things that would make life worse for hethia and the druids. Lumia wishes things could go any other way with the wyld trees, but they're in an inescapable death spiral that's beyond her control, and so its best to move on so the druids don't go extinct.other than the eternal "not enough dudes" complaint (which i actually AM trying to combat by working on a submission
the newest dungeon just reminded me how i wish i could side with/help the druids. after convocation of mirrors, i have no particular inclination to kiss up to the seven (except maybe mallach, because 'catboy' is basically my sexual preference; and he hasn't tried to yoink my soul, just gave me a 'hey your demon girlfriend? SHE'S A DEMON' talking-to, which is fair enough), and i genuinely feel for hethia and her people more than the lumian frost elves.
i think i said before, years ago, i wish i could have the option of trying to wipe out the kitsune to save the wyld trees, even if it went all drakengard and i got a bad end for the attempt. i get that content like that is probably way lower priority than progressing the mainline story, but if this was a tabletop campaign, that's what i'd be doing
If you're planning to submit your own content, its important to know that going with your own headcanon rather than what's in game is a good way to not get something accepted
In a geopolitical assessment of the situation, that's enough. Now because it's a game, distances and time aren't realistic (the game defaults to a fast pregnancy option that is six times faster than normal as an example), but even then, the Fox Den is too close to The Winter City for long term peace to be an option; it would be too easy to land enough troops through the Torii gate that then march on the city itself. This means the foxes, despite doing little (beyond accosting travellers), are an active, ongoing threat to Ryn's Queendom. Either the local foxes will be forced to swear fealty to Etheryn (or driven out/killed, but given the actual writing of the game political subjugation is infinitely more likely), or the Boreal Elves will be driven out of the city (or killed, which given the writing of the kitsune is way more likely, as they are intended to be reminiscent of Imperial Japan and it's rule, hence the racism).
The problem with this state of affairs is that there's no way for this conflict to come to a head during the story of the game; it's just bad narrative design to have a war story interrupted with another war story, especially when there are a lot of similarities between the Kitsune and the Demons actually attacking. This puts the Kitsune at a massive tactical disadvantage, as the most likely outcome of the current conflict is an alliance or confederation between the disparate towns and tribes in the Frost Marches (something the Upgrading the Wayfort side-quest lays a lot of the groundwork for), allowing for much more coordinated military responce to issues like the Torii gate or potential naval invasion, meaning that unless the Kitsune have access to cannons (which based on their inspiration and military tactics so far, they shouldn't) they actually have to fight it out.
I just hope that doesn't destroy his fingers or something writing that much in one go. Because jeesus
''. I hope he takes a good break when it's all done.On the lighthearted side at least, I can hear boss music for the coders lol.
there are a few things I think you're discounting here. One is that I don't think sending a huge military force through the Torii gates is logistically possible. if it was then the holy armies from the south would just be there already. Second is how bad of an Idea it would be for the Kitsune to go to war the frost elves considering what they stand to lose vs what they stand to gain. Like you said it's unlikely that a war between them would go their way and if they lose the colonies they lose 200 years worth of cultivation and there cheapest source of iron. Even if they won all they'd get is a bunch of territory they have to manage, much of which is in ruin and the hostility of every surrounding faction especially the one made up mostly of valkyries. Third is the possibility of the two nations entering an alliance. With the PC being the consort of both of the leaders in the area they could be steered towards a mutually beneficial relationship where the Kitsune don't have to cut ties back home.
I'm really not discounting them. Yes, massing troops in the tree for an assault is hard, but the potential to slide in just 30 soldiers to attack the walls of the Winter City (which is barely anything for militaries of the period the cultures are based on) is unacceptable to continued existence of Ryn's nation, as those soldiers could harrass civilians and merchants moving within the Queendom (and thus, directly under Ryn's protection). At which point for Champions who took the title from Ryn would be legally required to raise troops and march on the Den to secure the Torii, as historically the title of Marcher (Marqui/Marchioness) was for people stationed at the nation's border which gave benefits to the holder in exchange for mandatory levies. Therefore, as long as the potential exists, the Boreal Elves are not safe in their own borders.
And there's little incentive for the actual leader of the Kitsune to provide any assurances to Ryn that it won't be used that way. The "Old Country" is one of the most intact nation after the Godswar, with little real disruption as a result of the fallout. They are canonically the most advanced nation we know of, since they weren't knocked back to the bronze age like everyone else. There's little that the outsiders can actually provide that the Kitsune want, and therefore little reason to provide non-aggression pacts that would even partially resolve the situation, much less cede a colony.
And yeah, a Champion that is married to both Ryn and Kiyoko will have a better chance of negotiating something better. I haven't been touching on the Champion and their actions on purpose, I don't want to say the game I am playing (where I realized this while renovating the Wayfort and specifically got Imora's help with the magical defenses to better tie the shark-girls into the growing alliance I see as the ultimate result of the current issues) is canon. Anything that will remain true regardless of the Champion's actions will be focused on rather than the things that might be true (Komari might be in charge in some of these futures, as Kiyoko was never found or couldn't otherwise be helped). And it's kind of hard for the Tree to physically move based on the Champion's actions.
Been there, done that, not recommended.
Forced/coerced conversion, even if the god demanding it shows up in person, is a sore spot for me. I'm never going to warm up to the Lumians no matter what happens to the trees. I can accept that siding w the druids isn't something that will happen in this game -- that's a pretty huge branch-off that few would likely go for. But i still wish i could SAVE the trees.
Like I said, totally ok with getting smited to a bad end for it. And not doing anything my ass, I can't take 2 steps in frostwood without them trying to eat me and overfill my inventory with fox berries!
This reminds me - has there been any specific lore about the wyld elves' religion/spiritual history? It feels like we know more about the elves we can't choose as a starting race.
Didn't mean to imply the kitsune were "attacking," but I could have sworn there was something waaay back about their tree helping speed along the death of the Old Wyld? No? I'm 100% willing to accept being wrong there. TBH, the elves and kitsune aren't actually things I focus on a lot (though I totally get why it would seem that way in this thread!), and playing on and off since the very early builds, I may very well have mis-remembered something I haven't re-read in years.
Oof. That's certainly a fair point to anyone, but it still stings. If it's any consolodation, my planned submission has jack and shit to do with any of the lore or characters mentioned in this thread. (And I've been scouring the game text trying to avoid such mistakes re: lore related to my submissions)
i'd mention the shemale thing again but i've already got an answer on that. I understand, on a technical level, that changing it isnt as easy as snapping your fingers. It's just shemale makes my skin crawl and genuinely having to set that every play through stings.
Wyld Elves don't have their own "racial" culture (like the Boreal Elves do, being a tiny nordic ethnostate). The Belharan Empire had huge human and wyld elf populations, but you can find them as members of other cultures as well (such as Khor'minos or Valgard).
Which is to say, you'll find their religious and spiritual history in that of the culture the individual wyld elf belongs to, rather than having a unique belief system spread across the race as a whole.
Between the druid dungeon and the commentary by Lumia and Annika, I'm not sure that your opinion is fully informed.
Me reading all these posts without having done DruidQuest and pretending like I understood shit.
Kohaku and Mai's are the recent ones I've done that stand out, lots of exploiting weakness' in your partners too it just takes the eroticism out of it for me, Nina in the wayfort is really aggressive about her being a harpy too, I honestly don't think cum dump bird brain when I see her but my character apparently does.
There are others but they're not springing to mind right now, I haven't done a new playthrough in ages so I've been focused on the newer content.
Ok, I went back and searched re: this, and the understanding I have of this now is that I was close, but mis-remembered some key bits. The kitsune are trying to convert the nature spirits of the frostwood to them, but the old wyld is understandably miffed abt the elves dumping them. This I'm taking from things the shrine maidens and Komari tell you after you become a kitsune, which I only ever did once. I would quote, but i basically exclusively post here from my phone on bathroom breaks.
Ok, I say this with respectful intent, because I do enjoy your work - are you telling me that the druids in the time of Atheldred were not told to convert or GTFO? I just realized it prob sounds like I think the druids are being forced now, which I do understand is incorrect. If that's the case, sorry for the misunderstanding. If it's not, then
to me what I'm missing.Awesome, thank you for the answer. So, what would that mean for all the elves we run into chillin' in the forest? Are they druidic, or just the fantasy equivalent of me and my high school friends drinking in the woods?
Mallach
Trying is the key word here. They've been trying forever but havent made any progress, assumedly because this is the seat of power for at least 2 gods who don't appreciate balance being fucked with. Lumia has some dialogue about this.Ok, I went back and searched re: this, and the understanding I have of this now is that I was close, but mis-remembered some key bits. The kitsune are trying to convert the nature spirits of the frostwood to them, but the old wyld is understandably miffed abt the elves dumping them. This I'm taking from things the shrine maidens and Komari tell you after you become a kitsune, which I only ever did once. I would quote, but i basically exclusively post here from my phone on bathroom breaks.
Lumia also explains this one, but i at least understand not wanting to need to interact with something you disagree with just to find out whether you should forgive or not. Essentially (spoiler at the next post cause it was breaking the post for some reason???)Ok, I say this with respectful intent, because I do enjoy your work - are you telling me that the druids in the time of Atheldred were not told to convert or GTFO? I just realized it prob sounds like I think the druids are being forced now, which I do understand is incorrect. If that's the case, sorry for the misunderstanding. If it's not, then
They follow the pantheon like normal people. Probably with a bigger focus on Velun and Lumia, knowing them.
All of those(and the spoiler from furiae as well) are tobs, so it could just be a writer mismatch for you, but also the kitsune are soul carnivores/predators, so it makes sense for that kind of feeling to come through in the sex as well.
Spoiler from previous message was broken
The "join or gtfo" was a heat of the moment "we all need to be together and on the same page or the wraiths are going to annihilate us". Lumia never intended for it to get as bad as it did, but by the time it did she was using most of her power to hold back the wraith in the basement, and it was too late to go back. she never got the chance to settle things after the war was over, and so the misfortunes with ryns parents and grandsire happened.
I think that it'd be worth it for you to close-read what Anni and Lumia say about it, not just what Hethia and Synneva do. All of them have at least a little useful information.
When I wrote what Anni had to say about it, I did my best to accommodate all existing lore and provide a different perspective on the issue - one that I thought was lacking - without making any particular side seem blameless or angelic. Anni speaks from her perspective, not the perspective of a druid or the Word of God (or even "a" god). But I think it's a perspective worth thinking about.
I've never gotten the impression that Kitsune are that monstrous. But it's also not entirely the NPC's writing it's the PC's writing that makes it so disconnecting.
It feels like you go in for sex and discover your PC suddenly has a goal during it, usually a selfish one. I just thought my character was having sex, with a lover often times and suddenly my PC wants to utterly dominate the encounter, to win and they think very little of some of their partners (in ninas case).
I thought that's what the whole Pure/Dark system was for you know? All of these complaints would seem to be exactly what a dark PC would want I would think, they're not just "says swears" more?