Which will finish first?

Discussion in 'Trials in Tainted Space' started by OpinionsRbad, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. OpinionsRbad

    OpinionsRbad Well-Known Member

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    The main plot line of Berserk or the main plot line of TiTS? Both get many hiatuses but who will win the race? Maybe throw HunterXHunter in there while we're at it.:negativeman:
    Genuine answers only please; no trolls.
     
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  2. Kesil

    Kesil Well-Known Member

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    The main plot line of TiTS.
    I don't know about HxH, but I know that Berserk still has a 30% left or so if we take into account what Kentaro Miura stated back in 2009. Then again, it was announced Berserk will be released at least once per month commencing with episode 352.
     
  3. Wsan

    Wsan Well-Known Member
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    Berserk will never finish because Miura will be kill by idols.
     
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  4. Ch0w

    Ch0w Well-Known Member

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    About Berserk i think more recently, after 2008, he stated he would not continue it to the end,that he was done with it

    HxH gets a lot of hiatus, they even thought that the writer had died one time.

    It would suit better if instead u said Hajimo no ippo and One Piece.
     
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  5. Kesil

    Kesil Well-Known Member

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    Source, please? The 2017 interview included in the Berserk Official Guidebook has the following bit: "I will be making Berserk as always, without wavering. There will be times when the slot for my serialization is empty, so times when I distance myself from my comic for a while will be happening as well [...] I will be continuing Berserk without change. And, I would like to somehow arrive at the end in good health."
     
  6. Lkynmbr24

    Lkynmbr24 Well-Known Member
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    Oh boy... one of these types of threads again.

    I'll give it to the middle/end of the page before this thread turns into another heated debacle about the timeframe of when TiTS will finish its story. As innocent as this topic may be intended to be, it's a very touchy subject. Literally almost anything about this topic usually ends in a stupid argument about when TiTS will finish and all the speculations behind it, whether supporting or just plain whining.

    It will finish when it finishes. Can we please just leave it at that?
     
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  7. balitz Method

    balitz Method Well-Known Member

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    Ippo actually seems to be winding down; there was a whole thing recently about the direction it's being taken in.

    There was an interesting interview/talk between Miura and a famous editor that shed a lot of light on why he's obviously struggling so hard with Berserk (to boil it down the editor felt that Miura wrote Berserk to do the Eclipse and that it happened too early in the story and everything after that suffers from a noticeable directionlessness even when it builds toward things and that Miura is mostly writing it now out of obligation rather than passion).
     
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  8. BitchBroken

    BitchBroken Well-Known Member

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    I'm alright with the state it's in. If it gets finished then that means the constant updates will probably stop. The way it's set up right now, we have something that you can keep coming back to and that's perfect for me. The story is not something I'm overly invested in, all I care about are the characters. Besides, let's be honest. The story is actually pretty awful, it's really just there to serve as a catalyst for smut(not that there's anything wrong with that).
     
  9. dieinhell100

    dieinhell100 Member

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    WRONG.

    This shit 'bout Berserk now. I mean come on, just cure Casca already. I'd trade TiT's story 10 times over for just something to come to a conclusion in Berserk but no. For years I have to be reminded that Casca was raped retarded. That Guts may never find peace. That Griffith dares to continue gracing the world with his presence. Come on Miura, you're getting old, don't kick the bucket and leave us hanging.
     
  10. Kesil

    Kesil Well-Known Member

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    He won't since he's bound to go to the Abyss soul vortex. At best, he could enjoy a long life if and only if everything went well. I for one don't think Berserk will end with the God Hand and the Idea of Evil being no more.
     
    #10 Kesil, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  11. null_blank

    null_blank Well-Known Member

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    I was fine with ignoring this thread until someone mentioned Berserk.

    First off, Miura has stated recently that he has no intention of giving up on the only serialized worked he has ever done in his entire life.

    Second, his long hiatus's have a lot to do with him burning out, health and him playing video games he's become obsessed over.
     
  12. Medge

    Medge Well-Known Member

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    I like you a lot. You write very well written content even if it's not stuff that I'm personally interested in.

    That said, I don't agree here at all. The question of TiT's status is not an unreasonable one to ask given the amount of financial and personal investment from the community. At the end of the day this is a project floated by backers paying money to see it to completion. Money is involved. I doubt there's a single writer taking commissions for this game that would use "It's finished when its finished" on a paying customer checking in on a deadline. Not one they expected to come back. No one who exchanges money for a service or product is ever happy with that response.

    This subject should not be a taboo the way it's considered on these forums. I'd love Fenco to have a successful run and the ability to produce many projects into the future should they desire to do that. The ability to do so will depend partly on the goodwill and trust they build up among patrons. That trust doesn't exist independently of transparent timelines and completed work.
     
    #12 Medge, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  13. Night Trap

    Night Trap Well-Known Member
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    lol



    To keep this from being nothing more than a shitpost: the topic is taboo because there is no answer to this question and there will never be. It's also taboo because morons who usually aren't even backing the game crawl out of the woodwork to say dumb shit about how this game that churns out free content of fairly high quality (by the low standards of the internet) on a weekly (or more) basis is a rip off, and that Fen is hoarding all the furgold and laughing all the way to the bank/musky mattress he stores his furgold in.

    I'm still laughing about the commission thing though. Seriously, never accept a commission with a deadline.
     
  14. XBoxMaster131

    XBoxMaster131 Well-Known Member

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    Somebody call in Dr. Magic Ted and have him remove this cancer before it becomes terminal.
     
  15. Medge

    Medge Well-Known Member

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    I've been a backer for over a year at this point, so if you're suggesting I'm just here to start shit after only playing public builds, that's not true. I've frequently defended fenco in the comments section against people whining about the public release time frame. It is for the most part a free game that non-backers only have to wait to enjoy bug free.

    Just because there's no current answer to the question, that doesn't mean it's unreasonable for someone considering backing the game to ask about some sort of timeline on the forum. I came here and asked questions about backing before I joined. Anyone considering dropping money on the development is reasonable to do the same thing. There not being a current answer does not mean that there should not or could not be an answer. It's at the discretion of fenco to chart out shit like that. Many indie developers do just that and have update plans on their development pages. It's not an unconventional idea.

    It blows my mind that someone asking basic questions could get such a hostile response. And to you nightrap, you're still expected to have work done in a reasonable time. Yes or no? This is an honest question, I don't know the answer. Is time not discussed at all (period) when a commission is accepted? Do you use a line like "you'll get this in one to two years"? Do you actually say "It's finished when it's finished"?

    There's nothing quite like this game or CoC. Both projects gave me a new respect for the flexibility of written erotica. The community is pretty interesting too, even if I'm making more enemies than a few. It's possible that some people want to ask questions without meaning harm or insult to either. Insane right?

    At this point, I'm catching flack from creators and forum goers that I have no personal issue with. I'm maybe taking a few things more personally than I should. Maybe I've been an asshole without meaning to.
     
    #15 Medge, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  16. Night Trap

    Night Trap Well-Known Member
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    I agree that there absolutely should be an answer to this very simple question. However, it's pretty well known by this point that that's never going to happen, as Fen himself has more or less said as much. Another reason this question is met with hostility: a simple search of the forums by someone who is curious would turn up one of the previous discussions of this topic. Or, if someone is too lazy to use the search function, then they could, to borrow an old adage here, "lurk moar."


    As for my commissions, I make things clear up front. I let commissioners know that I have medical issues that often preclude writing, as well as real life obligations that often complicate things as well. I make no promises at all as to when something will be written, and that's exactly why I only take money for my projects when it's done. Even if I did take half the money beforehand, then I would still make it as clear as possible to the commissioner what they're getting into.

    It's much the same with backing this game: caveat emptor. It's good for someone to check this sort of thing before backing, but people are frequently quite hostile to these inquiries because there have been countless people with buyer's remorse making these sorts of threads, or even just people who could have used the search function on the forums for its intended purpose to do their research. People are tired of answering the same question again and again (not just on this topic), and that's quite reasonable when there are multiple ways to find the answer to most common questions without making yet another thread that's just a rehash of an old one.
     
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  17. Medge

    Medge Well-Known Member

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    And that's a reasonable response. Thank you.

    I'm going to back out of here before my inner asshole says something stupid to people that self-righteously bandwagon click "like" instead of explaining shit like that themselves.
     
  18. Lkynmbr24

    Lkynmbr24 Well-Known Member
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    I mean when you make a comment like this then that just comes off kinda passive aggressive, which certainly wouldn't earn you any favors.

    But yeah, Night Trap put it in as best words as we could possibly give you. Not sure if anyone else would have been able to explain this with as much patience, even myself, but believe me and us in that any ire isn't directed at you personally, just the topic itself is just talked to death at this point so it's kinda come to be expected that certain topics will start garnering some... hostile responses.

    The only thing I can add to this is that, let's say Fen or anyone being commished does make a certain end-date deadline, and then shit comes up to where you won't make the deadline on time. I imagine that may and will cause a LOT of ire towards Fen for failing to meet that said timeline moreso than the current situation, so a set deadline wouldn't be the smartest of ideas to make. All we can hope for is the periodic updates to the story from time to time, which are at least still being hinted at!

    On another note...
     
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    #18 Lkynmbr24, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  19. Medge

    Medge Well-Known Member

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    @Lkynmbr24 The first quote that you're taking is legitimately me trying to figure out if I've written something thoughtless without meaning to. I legitimately didn't know. The rest of this is me being passive aggressive.

    When someone takes the weakest part of my question out of context in a quote as to why the rest of my question isn't worth answering, and community says "Yea, fuck that guy", I stop trying to win favors. Couldn't care less if the only standard is how many of us disagree. At that point "Passive aggressive" or "Asshole light" is the best I can do.

    If you aren't trying to antagonize and someone takes one part of your quote to discredit and community says "Yea, this guy is stupid", you might react the same way. Hell, I even tried to lead with a compliment to avoid any harsh feelings for disagreeing.

    I won't make any apologies for asking in the first place. I'm sure as hell not going to try and win a popularity contest. I'm not going to dig myself a deeper hole by prying any further or making any other points. Asking questions or making points about other indie projects now seems very dangerous if you aren't a forum darling. I'll end on asshole light and consider it an achievement of self restraint.

    As for the rest of your quote. Thanks.
     
    #19 Medge, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  20. Evil

    Evil Well-Known Member

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    I won't stay too long on this topic because I can feel the geiger counter clicking like crazy at the moment.

    I like TiTS, I wouldn't be a backer if I didn't. But a big part of why I like the game comes from the fact that much of the content comes from the community and the fact that the developers welcome it so much. This isn't a game that basically steals peoples' money for nothing in return (Looking at you SimBro), the focus here isn't some nebulous deadline to have Content X done, its simply "Oh hey, this forum member wrote this pretty cool character, let's add them!". Each month we get a decent amount of content, definitely more so than other games.

    Would I like to see another planet to explore? Sure. I'd also like to see a cute redhead with a guitar on Uveto. But I know that it takes time and effort. From what I understand, there are maybe three or four people who code for the game and probably just as many writers. Its essentially writing a novel worth of content for each planet, and I don't know if people have done that, but its a massive undertaking. Sometimes its easier to go for the short story or the novella than to tackle the saga.

    At the end of the day, the story will be told, but the real strength of TiTS has been and will continue to be the content that the community creates.
     
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  21. balitz Method

    balitz Method Well-Known Member

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    Most of the development problems in TiTS could be solved by Fenoxo hiring an actual project manager who only does that, putting together schedules and goals, getting a feel for who's doing what and prioritizing so that all the work being done synergizes, recognizing if help needs to be hired for a time to push out this or that, making sure everyone knows what everyone else is doing and allowing for them to easily communicate back and forth and so on.

    Fenoxo as a writer and programmer do well but Fenoxo as a project lead falters.
     
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  22. Lkynmbr24

    Lkynmbr24 Well-Known Member
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    What Fen moreso needs is a competent and trustworthy content reviewer that knows and understands fully the type and quality of content from user submitted entries that should be included in the game. Fen reviewing most of this content himself in my opinion eats up a HUGE chunk of his time to where he doesn't get to work on his own projects, and consequently any story stuff as well. If there was a middleman that was able to review and approve content they feel the way Fen would think, then things would flow a LOT smoother than things are now. At this moment, Fen has a gigantic pile of backlogged entries dating back to around September to my understanding. If someone else were able to sort through this backlog, all it would fall to Fen staff, or any volunteer coder is to code it in. As of the moment, I feel it's just Fen undertaking a LOT of responsibilities at once that's causing a big slowdown.

    (I obviously can't speak for Fen when I say this, but this is just something I've been observing.)
     
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  23. balitz Method

    balitz Method Well-Known Member

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    More coders and reviewers are necessary too but that's something a good project manager would recognize and address. The huge backlog would obviously be a big priority right off the bat so putting together a more detailed list of "what's allowed and what isn't" as well as more defined quality standards (in the sense of what we're looking for and what we aren't) would be one of their tasks and then hiring reviewers who can go over the content, quickly get approval, and then get it ready for coding so the coders can slip it in easily without that being a two week project would be another. Everything goes -way- more smoothly when there's someone coordinating everyone and Fenoxo has always had trouble with that. Sometimes he makes posts asking what everyone else is doing because he has no idea.
     
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  24. XBoxMaster131

    XBoxMaster131 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, man, I was referring to the thread in general. You're one of the good ones, who actually posted their opinion in a respectful, intelligent manner. Pretty mutch the entire rest of this thread had been a deadly combo of salt and toxic waste.
     
    #24 XBoxMaster131, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  25. Coalsack

    Coalsack Well-Known Member

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    I may be me only, but I felt that the last three months, updates came a bit lacking on content.

    It may have been caused by the amount of time that reviewing both Haloween and Christmas contests consumed.
     
  26. Fr0sty

    Fr0sty Well-Known Member

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    A lot of work went into Federation Quest as well. That project for sure slowed a lot of things down, and when it was followed up by both Halloween and Christmas it just bogged the pipeline up more. Hopefully now we will have some clear time for smaller additions.
     
  27. MistyBirb

    MistyBirb Harpy Princess
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    Okay, so, this isn't really an "angry rant" or anything, I'd just like to put some things into perspective for anyone that wonders why things take the amount of time they do in this business. "This business" being, specifically, interactive text-based erotica.

    The average novel geared towards adult readers clocks in at around 75,000 - 100,000 words these days. That's a lot. There are some professional authors that only put out one novel every few years. I'd consider a rate of "one novel a year" to be a respectable speed for the average professional author. Not too fast or too slow, just a solid pace.

    So, let's look at TiTS. What does one novel's worth of words, what we could average to being one year's worth of work for a single writer, get you in TiTS? Is it an entire planet? Multiple planets? One planet plus some quests?

    Coming from personal experience, 75,000 - 100,000 words is about two decently fleshed out non-follower NPC's. Maybe a little bit more.

    If you're looking at an exceptionally involved character like, say, Anno? Well, Savin would have to come in and give a decent estimate of how much has gone into Anno but I'm willing to bet it's more than a couple novels' worth.

    For one waifu.

    And this is just looking at raw word count. A lot of the TiTS writing process is slowed down and complicated by the need to write some pseudo-code into your projects, clearly formatting things like forks, variants, and parser usage, as well as making sure your conceptual outline for "how it should work" is actually feasible when a coder sits down to try and wire it all up.

    Bring in other factors like the need to get answers from FenCo about various lore or mechanics questions, the need to have submissions edited and reviewed (tasks that are almost exclusively done by other writers, including Savin and Fen), and then the time and effort it takes the coders (of which there are precious few) to actually get it into the game, and you have a long, uncertain timetable with quite a few hurdles that can delay things even more. Given the size and scope of TiTS, many (maybe even most) people don't realize how quickly content is actually being churned out, even if a lot of things (lol taurs) are slipping through the cracks.

    I also feel it bears mentioning that what we're writing is porn. Porn is pretty hard to write, and even harder to write well. You need a certain mindset, and to be entirely honest you also need to be kinda horny, or at least have a fetish or two in common with what you're writing at the time, to make good, masturbation-worthy smut. Writing porn is probably one of the most literal examples of a "passion project" that you could find. Motivation is easy to come by but just as easy to lose, and the quality of erotica is more adversely affected by a lack of motivation than probably any other kind of writing. It's also potentially compromising, and can't always be done when the writer would like. It often requires long bouts of reasonable privacy, which is not always easy to come by.

    The TL;DR of all of this is that this shit takes time. A lot of time. Months, if not years. Yes, I said years. It's a big reason many NPC's, planets, and other large projects are put into the game piecemeal in unfinished or buggy states. Because the timetable to see something "done" just isn't feasible for this kind of project. No one would back Fen if he held all content until is was "done" and then put it in the game. You'd see one update a year at best...
     
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  28. balitz Method

    balitz Method Well-Known Member

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    A lot of that boils down to "the process for submitting is arcane and requires too many eyes with not enough established guidelines, there aren't enough people to do each thing, and no one's managing it on a macro scale at all".

    Which -are- fixable as the game has enough of a budget to afford some freelance/temp hires and someone to whip the mess of a development cycle into shape.
     
  29. TFMaster

    TFMaster Well-Known Member

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    The solution is clear we need to clone Fenoxo! and maybe the rest of the development team as well.
     
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  30. Upcast Drake

    Upcast Drake Well-Known Member
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    I implemented FedQuest near-independently, just a handful of times I had to clarify things with Savin. The writing obviously took up a bunch of his time to get to that point though.
     
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