What are your gripes/criticism of TiTs?
- Thread starter TheInfamousImmortal
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If I'm not mistaken, this was a carry-over from the original CoC, where the "wings" slot was reserved for anything that is positioned the back of the character (like the modern "back bling"), so only one type can define what it is. Now for TiTS, it can be a variety of things, from fins, to wings, to tentacles--but it is only one slot. Whether or not it would be a coding nightmare is up to the coder, but yes, going back to account for any situation where needing to mention both at the same time would be highly tedious and probably unnecessary work.
"Sharpies" (shark-harpies/sirens, the precursor of the suula) did exist in the CoC days and any back fin is either non-existent, not mentioned, or just implied via reader imagination. Not every detail has to be mechanically supported, especially for something so cosmetic. That said, think of the back slot more as "what is the main thing that goes here" rather than "this is the only thing that ever goes here".
Yeah, I think most players use TFs more for the sake of character customization than a fetish onto itself (and I'm one of them). I've barely touched CoC2, but I much prefer that game's targeted TF system over the RNG-fest of TiTS for this reason.
To be a bit blunt: I don't think the majority of the TiTS playerbase actually want a transformation-fetish game, but instead a game where you get to fuck around in a wide universe with a highly-customizable player character. The TFs are just the vehicle for getting to that perfect self-insert. To be fair, there's basically no RPGs (let alone porn RPGs) that have the same level of granularity as TiTS/CoC2/CoC when it comes to character customization, and that's a huge part of what makes these games special. Significantly cutting down on the customization options for the player character in a future games would probably alienate a lot of current TiTS fans and will have to garner a different audience.
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It's already possible to do that, but the 'level of depth' required is likely years off. At least if my experiences using LMStudio to run an LLM locally for the 'game' Formamorph are anything to go by. Hardware is the main limiting factor for what models that you can use, and the AI race is not being kind to the prices of consumer electronics.
Aw hell naw, where do these people even came from?
The day that these games start including LLM bullshit is the day I fuck off and find a new hobby.
God DAMN did I trigger some folks here, who DIDN'T FUCKING READ what I said. I am not saying I want an LLM - hence the enshittification comment. I am saying that unless you somehow generate the content procedurally, you cannot have a system as complex and customizable as TITS tries to be that takes all the variants into account, and that right now the only thing that is even REMOTELY in the ballpark would be LLMs, and even those are at least 5 years away from what would be needed. Now, if any of you who actually have any background in computer science want to weigh in on a means by which you could procedurally generate the needed content by some other means, I'd be glad to hear it - hell, I'd be glad to help fund it, if it actually viable.
But "background in computer science" is not the same as "durr I can has right-click?"
But "background in computer science" is not the same as "durr I can has right-click?"
I think the thing you're missing is that most people don't actually want absolute perfection all that bad. Like, would it be cool? Sure. But the occasional small scene not accounting for a very specific TF is something people will go "Aw, anyway" and move on from.
We don't need to chase perfection via procedural generation or LLMs or anything of that variety. This is not a major obstacle that's holding the game back, it's a very mild immersion break that you may or may not notice.
Throwing in my input as one of the minority who is actually playing for TF kink reasons.
TFing in CoC2 feels like busywork to me more than anything. It doesn't feel like an action a character would take in that situation, and if I just wanted to shift the values around to something specific I'd just save edit.
The whole point of using items to TF for me is the idea of actually having the character experience that transformation. For it to have a physical or mental effect- even a minor one- that leaves its mark on them. I end up making a lot of Treated laquines just because they're long-term early game transformations that add something to what's otherwise routine gameplay, and I tend to go with items that have cumulative or overdose effects for similar reasons.
The only other porn game I can think of that's really comparable in scratching that specific itch is Flexible Survival, which has spottier writing imo and a lot of content that's niche enough you might not even know it exists if you play the wrong kind of character. TiTS is a good middle ground for that reason; removing the actual interesting aspects of the TF process basically kills my interest in playing at all.
YES THANK YOU OMG!!!
This was my exact reaction to the alchemy system!
Like, I get it, save scumming to get what you want is annoying as fuck. There's a reason I have so many hours in the save editor.
But like, I feel like they went a bit too far in the other direction.
Maybe instead they should have used alchemy as more of a framing device instead of an actual mechanic, and just make it so your character just needs to gather the species specific ingredients, then has all the body part specific ingredients on hand at the crafting station to make what you specifically need, you know?
Or, alternatively, if you don't want to go all the way back to town, you can just throw it in a pot and chug the resulting sinister elixir and hope you get lucky! Maybe even being able to throw multiple different things in the same pot to get a bunch all at once!
This ones going to take a bit of explaining on my end so here I go:
I don't like how certain appearance flags on certain TFs have oddly specific requirements(Example: chitinous flag on demonic arms requiring you to not have chitinous SKIN), this basically means I have to give up a TF I've permanently decided on for my character(Example #2: fur flagged chitin skin from illumorpheme) if I find a TF I want to try out.
I don't like how certain appearance flags on certain TFs have oddly specific requirements(Example: chitinous flag on demonic arms requiring you to not have chitinous SKIN), this basically means I have to give up a TF I've permanently decided on for my character(Example #2: fur flagged chitin skin from illumorpheme) if I find a TF I want to try out.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I also like the drawn-out TFs that slowly change your Steele over time (I usually start as a generic human precisely for that reason), it's just that they're not the main reason I play TiTS.
As an aside: I love that having TFs be so ubiquitous in the setting unintentionally makes for a relatively optimistic version of the future (in certain regards). It's a free-love society where people can just be whatever they want to be (so long as they have the cash for it). You could even go so far as to headcanon that no one reacts to Steele changing their gender/race/etc. precisely because it's just so normalized in the world of TiTS.
And Anyxine XD
| “We’ve both been busy,” she chuckles under her breath. “And you’ve certainly changed! Quite the kitsune now, hmm? Like father like daughter, I suppose.” You can’t help but chuckle at the little dig. She always did love to tease... |
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Yeah, not only accounting for every transformation that already exists in TiTs but having to retroactively go back and rewrite EVERY SINGLE scene to have support for that stuff is kind of unrealistic. I've had a similar gripe before in the past but over time as I've played through TiTs and seen all the transformatives ya'll added, that criticism of the lack of support of niche stuff like Back Tentacles and Genitails has shifted to a more personal nitpick of "I got big ol' horns and yet no one's used them as handlebars yet despite the fact I've been suckin' down so much meat that the Galotian and the Slyveren might put aside their differences to band together against the common threat I pose to their food supplies." Because I now know that trying to account for every TF in your writing would be like going through a 10 page checklist with some of the stuff being kinks you're not into. Trying to do that shit's gonna have a negative impact on the quality of the writing, make updates take longer, make proposing new transformatives harder, and so much more bullshit before we even get to the coding side of development.
At that point, fuck it. I'll take what I can get. Free pizza is still free pizza even if it doesn't have stuffed crust.
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This is objectively correct (and the fact drives Fen, a diehard TF fetishist, absolutely mental).
This is even overstating it.
Now this is data from CoC2, so obviously YMMV when it comes to TITS (which doesn't really do user polling like we do), but when we have conducted joint data collection the results are always FAIRLY similar:
The six most-played races in CoC2 are the five races available in Character Creation and also Kitsune, which is an extremely early game all-in-one instant TF you get from a god via the most popular companion in the game. The plurality of people play as a regular human; the majority of people never change their starting race at all. Now that means the majority of people basically don't engage with the concept of TFing at all, full stop (save perhaps some minor corrections they'd have liked to have done in character creation, which is why we just redid character creation to give much more exact starting numbers).
Further more, anecdotally, the majority of people who DO actually use TFs consistently report that they just beeline for the TF they want, chug it until they have their character, and then effectively never touch TFs ever again after that. Meaning, for them, the TF system only exists as an extended character creation system. They're not reading the flavor text, they're not schlicking to the idea of their character changing, they're just pretending their character was always this way from the start.
In other words, from an objective resource-allocation standpoint, transformation systems are a waste of time and the audience would be better served by having a much more in-depth character creation system with more starting races and better control over things like height, breast size, etc.
Well, guess I am the minority. I really love the TF blurbs and I'm always messing around with my character. (I find it hard to settle on what I want.)
Hell, some of the TF stuff is just amazing to read. Estroessence and the Behemoth TFs are art, imo.
Yeah, I do also save edit, but that's because I am a control freak and want a level of granularity that's absurd. But I always do as much as I can in game before I sand off the rough edges.
Heck, I usually play Leithan female at the start, since it affects two things: it makes Anyxine my cousin, and it means Celise's email has her wearing panties on her head rather than boxers. (Panties are objectively better undies. UwU)
Of course, despite that, I do have some emotional attachment that could be pulled, which is why I hope for a half-rodenian start.
tl;dr I like the TFs and I wouldn't even consider myself a TF fetishist really. Just indecisive.
Hell, some of the TF stuff is just amazing to read. Estroessence and the Behemoth TFs are art, imo.
Yeah, I do also save edit, but that's because I am a control freak and want a level of granularity that's absurd. But I always do as much as I can in game before I sand off the rough edges.
Heck, I usually play Leithan female at the start, since it affects two things: it makes Anyxine my cousin, and it means Celise's email has her wearing panties on her head rather than boxers. (Panties are objectively better undies. UwU)
Of course, despite that, I do have some emotional attachment that could be pulled, which is why I hope for a half-rodenian start.
tl;dr I like the TFs and I wouldn't even consider myself a TF fetishist really. Just indecisive.
Steele Any% Speedrunning the Planet Rush for their Kaiju Therian HRT.
Speaking as someone who doesn't want to continually transform my character, a big benefit of transformation systems is that AVOIDING transformation actually provides a fun challenge.
For example, the Scaredy Cat Gloves in CoC2 grant additional evasion, but transform the player if they flee combat. To get the benefit but avoid transformation, I have to change my play style and maybe even lose some fights. If I do decide to flee from a fight, I have to pay for a TF to fix the transformation. It adds a nice risk/reward element to the game.
Having said that, I'm the guy who plays on Dark Difficulty without companions and asked for an optional child support mode in CoC2, because it would provide an additional challenge and motivation to keep earning money. I don't know if most players think like me, but I want the game(s) to be as challenging as possible and the TF system contributes to that without ruining anyone's fun. It can provide a dream to be achieved, or a nightmare to be avoided.
This just makes me laugh and I love that
Absolutely agree with the end summarization. A very niche game having an increasingly niche fetish (TF) would better be served by playing and contributing to another game like Harem Royale, which I was personally disappointed by when I tried it because I didn't expect it to be a "schlick to changing" appeal, I thought that was just a means to swap around the dynamics of each characters' pairings
Transformation... really is not that niche of a fetish at all, at least for this game. It's one of the less strange things in it, frankly.
Even if it was, the game straight up says it contains 'exotic and weird fetishes' on the title screen. Nicheness of content is not really the issue here. If it was, half the characters wouldn't be hyper-endowed multi-genital animal women that cum enough to flood a small building.
This reminds me of SkyCorp...
Is that game still being worked on? I remember seeing some adds for it on furaffinity not too long ago...
I should note that a lot of the time when a new race comes out, there's one specific thing that I want from it to further refine my character or to play with some new fetish, rather than necessarily wanting to use the race wholecloth. Zaika are a very good example: tail sex is fantastic and zaika tails provide an excellent way to get all of that content, but I'm often applying a zaika tail to something else rather than necessarily wanting the character to outright be a zaika. A lot of my TiTS runs default to a hellhound Steele, but I like the look of vanae body markings so I almost always take those, I like the look of bull-style horns more than demon-style ones so I prefer to use those, I like long and prehensile tongues so I grab those from somewhere, etc. I don't necessarily vary a lot in the core race that I'm using, but more races give me more options to improve the central design more and more to my liking, sometimes in ways that I wasn't previously considering.
Perhaps I should've made clearer that I'm aware that TFing is a zero sum game: You either invest fully in it and explore it as a fetish, or you make it a glorified dressing-up game, not to be too dismissive. You absolutely cannot do both. My point is that I find the supposedly vast array of options available in TiTS an ultimately hollow experience, emphasised by the feedback I've gotten over it, and given a lot of the fundamentally pointless content elsewhere in the game, whether it would not have been better to invest more in this supposedly core part of the game.
This is an example of building a road and then noting that most of the people using it are car owners, though. You were never interested in the TFing aspect of CoC1, and you built the TF system in CoC2 as a method of quickly generating the character model you wanted. It's not surprising that the player base you've built interact that way with your game, anymore than TiTS has a large number of players who specifically love futa. Some unsolicited advice I have for you is that when you build your next game, do away with TFing entirely and just have an in depth character creation builder, with a Rennala-esque redo mechanic you can unlock later.
This is an example of building a road and then noting that most of the people using it are car owners, though. You were never interested in the TFing aspect of CoC1, and you built the TF system in CoC2 as a method of quickly generating the character model you wanted. It's not surprising that the player base you've built interact that way with your game, anymore than TiTS has a large number of players who specifically love futa. Some unsolicited advice I have for you is that when you build your next game, do away with TFing entirely and just have an in depth character creation builder, with a Rennala-esque redo mechanic you can unlock later.
Oh that's absolutely the plan. I never want to work on a "TF game" ever again.
Yeah, if it's a brain bender for me to play a game like TiTS or CoC and CoC2, I'd hate to be the one trying to code it.
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