What are your gripes/criticism of TiTs?

[IraMorti]

Small gripe I've always had about Shourya, her content never explains what Spanner looks like outside of being a small foxmorph AI. Like when you choose whether your cool with sharing there should be an option that's like "Can I see what your husband looks like first?" before your choose, and get an appearance screen as she show your a picture. Legit matters to someone like me, I'm really only attracted to femboys when it comes to dudes. If Spanner was a femboy fox all for it! But if a small hunk bot? Not really interested...

 

[Tide Hunter]

This is objectively correct (and the fact drives Fen, a diehard TF fetishist, absolutely mental).

I was initially driven to CoC because of the TFs, because I'm very much into TFs. The reason why I don't really engage much with it in CoC2 outside of just getting the TFs needed for the look I specifically want is really just because there's not much to it in CoC2. I'd be happy to engage in TFs more generally if it was more like CoC in mechanics, but CoC2 is more just a horny rpg.

 

[Nonesuch]

To be honest, as someone who can only really make junk food - I am painfully aware of my limits as a writer, that's one of the reasons I stopped - having it described as fundamentally pointless still hurts. These games were built on community-generated content, and a lot of the people with the enthusiasm necessary to create content don't have the skills or experience or time to make much more than junk food. Again, myself included. Maybe if I combined the skills I have now with the passion and free time I had a decade ago, but that's the Reaha expansion, and if that's still not good enough then I don't think anything I could do is.

If the argument is that "well, it shouldn't be that way, characters like Paige should be the bare minimum of what gets accepted or it's pointless", then okay, that's more than fair from an artistic standpoint. But a lot of people put a lot of effort into what they contributed to the game, and as someone who was one of them, I don't think I was capable of giving more.

I didn't mean to insult you! I have gripes about some of the community submitted content in the game, but for the most part I regard it as gravy - additional content that's not doing anyone any harm. Yes of course it has to be held to a minimum standard - and maybe that standard was too low in TiTS' earlier days - but there's no reason it has to be as intimidatingly high as Paige. A bonus of allowing community stuff too is that it acts as a pipeline for new writers, who hopefully bring new perspectives and vocabularies with them. I also think you're being overly hard on yourself - I always liked Celia.

The chief focuses of my complaints are:

* The requirement for all hostile encounters to have full suites of sexy times written for them. Enemies that fuck you or be fucked in return can be a lot of fun, and I love those that impart effects, have real risk or develop in some way - Ceraph was probably the one thing that got me into writing for CoC1, back in the day. I also know that Jasvalla is probably my single most popular piece of content. But if every enemy has them, and they are all one-shots with something that doesn't even have a name, then it quickly becomes utterly mundane and uninteresting. Worse though is that they are a huge bottleneck on development. From experience, writing sex scenes for generic enemies is the hardest and least rewarding thing you can do for this game. It's awful, and it takes so long to do for every individual encounter. We could concentrate on producing so much more satisfying content by rethinking the standard gameloop here.

* The similar requirement for virtually every character added to the game to be fuckable. Sometimes a vendor should just be a vendor. NPCs should be able to refuse the PC's advances. Again, this will serve to make those NPCs they can seduce more special, and concentrate more effort into them.

* The adjunct point to this is the tendency of writers to abandon characters half-done. I mean, I get it. Sometimes you have to move on, or risk driving yourself crazy. Sometimes if you chase an inspiration you can surge out 30 pages of good stuff in no time, instead of slaving over something you're exhausted with. Also community contributors will just do that, and that's the major negative attached to enabling them. But TiTS is absolutely littered with characters that go nowhere now. Players are constantly complaining about it. The most popular characters, like Anno and Paige, are those that have some kind of arc that was fully completed. There should be a hard limit on new Donut Steeles being introduced while other datable/recruitable NPCs are left in the void - a rule that could be made much easier for everyone by adopting the two proposals above.

That's my tuppence, from working on this game on-and-off for a decade now. A tighter central narrative, that involves and develops more characters, that would also be nice. But that's dependent on Fen, or whoever is the main writer for the next game.

 

[Nonesuch]

I'm glad this inspired a polite and robust discussion even if people disagree with me, anyway. It's really proven effective for me to procrastinate from writing more Nasti if nothing else.

 

[Savin]

The chief focuses of my complaints are:

I agree strongly with all of these points.

Obviously there's a time and a place for sex in the sex RPG but necessitating everything be fuckable slows development down to an absolute crawl. The whole reason Phaedra is designed like it is was that I put my foot down and yelled NO SETTLEMENTS ALLOWED -- because that would consume a year of dev time writing sexos for disposable shopkeepers and place-fillers.

 

[TheShepard256]

Small gripe I've always had about Shourya, her content never explains what Spanner looks like outside of being a small foxmorph AI. Like when you choose whether your cool with sharing there should be an option that's like "Can I see what your husband looks like first?" before your choose, and get an appearance screen as she show your a picture. Legit matters to someone like me, I'm really only attracted to femboys when it comes to dudes. If Spanner was a femboy fox all for it! But if a small hunk bot? Not really interested...

Agreed; fortunately, I found this WIP from Shou herself... somewhere, that shows how he should look like. I think he's more femboy than hunk, but I find it a lot harder to tell that difference when it comes to furries; he could just be averagely masculine for all I know. (Honestly, I thought he was kemonomimi rather than anthro, but that's probably because I didn't read the "morph" bit and just defaulted to my own preferences.)

 

[Jarylan]

Who is Celia? I can't find any info on them.

 

[Skunkupine]

Who is Celia? I can't find any info on them.

Could that be a misspelling of Ceria?

 

[Savin]

Honestly, I thought he was kemonomimi rather than anthro, but that's probably because I didn't read the "morph" bit and just defaulted to my own preferences.

Me when reading Urta for the first time.

Imagine my non-furry-enjoyer shock when I saw her art for the first time ;a;

 

[PanzerGuitar00]

Agreed; fortunately, I found this WIP from Shou herself... somewhere, that shows how he should look like. I think he's more femboy than hunk, but I find it a lot harder to tell that difference when it comes to furries; he could just be averagely masculine for all I know. (Honestly, I thought he was kemonomimi rather than anthro, but that's probably because I didn't read the "morph" bit and just defaulted to my own preferences.)

View attachment 41880

What happened to Shou anyway? Is she still around? I'm not on the discord so I'm not up to date on that front.

 

[PanzerGuitar00]

Agreed; fortunately, I found this WIP from Shou herself... somewhere, that shows how he should look like. I think he's more femboy than hunk, but I find it a lot harder to tell that difference when it comes to furries; he could just be averagely masculine for all I know. (Honestly, I thought he was kemonomimi rather than anthro, but that's probably because I didn't read the "morph" bit and just defaulted to my own preferences.)

View attachment 41880

le sigh

Dammit this art just makes me even more sad that Shou and her crew (bars) was never fully finished.

 

[PanzerGuitar00]

someone who can only really make junk food

Don't you dare say that. I've read your work, you can do far more than that. You're a damn good writer couch, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, especially yourself.

And whoever told you that your work was pointless, as a fast talking foul mouth Britain once said, "There is no middle finger big enough!"

 

[IraMorti]

Agreed; fortunately, I found this WIP from Shou herself... somewhere, that shows how he should look like. I think he's more femboy than hunk, but I find it a lot harder to tell that difference when it comes to furries; he could just be averagely masculine for all I know. (Honestly, I thought he was kemonomimi rather than anthro, but that's probably because I didn't read the "morph" bit and just defaulted to my own preferences.)

Never seen this piece before, but yeah I see what you mean. He does have a somewhat effeminate body shape in this. I guess it's up the the readers imagination with this one I guess? Especially since Shou disappeared.

 

[Savin]

What happened to Shou anyway? Is she still around?

No she left years and years ago.

 

[PanzerGuitar00]

No she left years and years ago.

Oh dang for real? That's a shame I really liked her artwork, not to say the other artists are bad or anything.

Oh well. I hope she's doing ok.

 

[IraMorti]

Another old character Gripe is Ellie - Her race talk is needed for the Pheromone talk - this doesn't make a lick of sense if you already Half-Leithan. Either she needs an entirely different Race talk for Half-Leithans or that talk should not exist and we get to skip straight to the pheromone talk.

 

[Skunkupine]

Given some of the discussions here-in, I'd like to make some suggestions to Fen, Savin, and company:
You need much better tooling. You need to move from making everything be Javascript, down to emitting dialog, to using data files and having code to read and process them. You should be able to describe a map in a data file, have tools to help you create the map, visualize it, edit it (including adding descriptions), and then have code in the game that reads the data file and creates the appropriate data structures at run time.
You should have a tool for dialog. I've seen one that other games use: https://www.yarnspinner.dev/ (NOTE: I have nothing to do with these folks. I've not used this tool. I get nothing from this link.) It doesn't support Javascript, but maybe that could change. If nothing else, writing the JS to parse the Yarn file would be a MUCH smaller task than writing all the tools.
You should have a data file format that describes a combatant, and is read at run time to create the data objects. You could probably get 80%-90% of the work done that way, and then manually write the specializations for the late 10%-20%.
And last but not least: In My Humble Opinion, Javascript is NOT a language for large projects. It's total lack of type safety has been a cause of many bugs in TiTs. I'd look at something with a much stronger type system - C# or C++17 (personally I hate C#, but...) You could still target Electron and browsers via WebAsm, and you actually would get help from the compiler finding errors before run time. Plus, those languages have tools to create documentation that can be given to other developers. I've been quite successful in using Doxygen on my contracts (admittedly, my work is a COMPLETELY different problem domain than this).
And I would STRONGLY advise that you plan on having automated testing built-in from day 0. Having a way to say "load this Steele, start out at this point, and do these things, and expect THIS to happen. If it doesn't, RUN IN CIRCLES SCREAM AND SHOUT so we can fix the regression."

 

[TheGraeyRebis]

Oh that's absolutely the plan. I never want to work on a "TF game" ever again.

Aw, sorry to hear that. It's a shame because it's genuinely one of the best parts of TiTs is that there's so many options. Hell, I practically use TiTs as a pseudo OC Maker when I'm trying to think of a TTRPG character because of the wide range of options.

 

[flying_moustache]

I have been playing the Fen&Co games since the very early TiTS years (I think...13 years? 2013 or so?) and while I always thought the transformation stuff was interesting, I was never focused on it. I remember stumbling into the Feniverse simply because I liked monstergirls.

What truly fascinated me though, and it still has a strong hold on me to this day, was the community content.

I hold respect for all the proper writers working on the games, you are the core and it wouldn't work without you, but a big part of the magic that defines these games for me is the potential for weirdness, variety and creativity from enthusiast writers around the community.
It blew my mind when I learned that ANYONE can just open up a doc, start typing and if it holds up to guidelines and quality standards it can get in the game.

I started countless docs over the years myself, endlessly rewriting, deleting, abandoning, rediscovering, rewriting again and almost never submitting them. All the good stuff of being an enthusiast without the necessary skill. And I loved every second of tinkering.
Whenver I remember that I actually got a stupid, tentaclesex dream scene into TiTS I feel incredibly silly about it. But I am also bursting with pride. That's MY stupid tentacle dream scene.

The Fencrew&Co has my trust regarding future changes. You worked on these games, you know what can be improved. I just, selfishly and sincerely, hope, that you will keep allowing submissions from community writers (like @Couch !) in the future. They truly breath additional life into these games and elevate them for me.

 

[Kitbashed]

These games were built on community-generated content,

A bonus of allowing community stuff too is that it acts as a pipeline for new writers, who hopefully bring new perspectives and vocabularies with them.

What truly fascinated me though, and it still has a strong hold on me to this day, was the community content.

I hold respect for all the proper writers working on the games, you are the core and it wouldn't work without you, but a big part of the magic that defines these games for me is the potential for weirdness, variety and creativity from enthusiast writers around the community.
It blew my mind when I learned that ANYONE can just open up a doc, start typing and if it holds up to guidelines and quality standards it can get in the game.

You guys took the words right out of my mouth XD.

But yeah, as someone who never really got super invested in the main plotline, I've always thought of TiTS as more of a collaborative smutty sandbox than a traditional RPG. Having so many different authors helps bring a ton of variety (both in terms of storytelling tones and different fetishes) to the game and keep it feeling fresh even over a decade later.

 

[Nino]

If the argument is that "well, it shouldn't be that way, characters like Paige should be the bare minimum of what gets accepted or it's pointless", then okay, that's more than fair from an artistic standpoint. But a lot of people put a lot of effort into what they contributed to the game, and as someone who was one of them, I don't think I was capable of giving more.

I really hope that I didn't contribute to that negative feeling of people demanding culinary cooking as opposed to junk food, because I definitely don't want for that to become a general narrative at all, let alone an anxiety that dissuades writers and volunteers. I love junk food too! Even if it could be considered fair artistically, every story needs the littler guys and pieces to coalesce and be a part of the whole. I'd even go so far as to say that they are objectively the majority of content if you include every little background thing like location descriptions, lore, random npc's that just do one or a few specific localized things. All contributions are treasured and appreciated in no small measure and for equal worth <3

 

[Nino]

* The similar requirement for virtually every character added to the game to be fuckable. Sometimes a vendor should just be a vendor. NPCs should be able to refuse the PC's advances. Again, this will serve to make those NPCs they can seduce more special, and concentrate more effort into them.

This is so insanely agreeable. The game has absolutely cemented the idea that literally everyone wants to fuck Steele and it kinda erodes the weight of the individual player character. Let NPCs have standards and preferences, I say! I feel like I remember that being acceptable in early development of the first CoC and TiTS

 

[PanzerGuitar00]

I have been playing the Fen&Co games since the very early TiTS years (I think...13 years? 2013 or so?) and while I always thought the transformation stuff was interesting, I was never focused on it. I remember stumbling into the Feniverse simply because I liked monstergirls.

What truly fascinated me though, and it still has a strong hold on me to this day, was the community content.

I hold respect for all the proper writers working on the games, you are the core and it wouldn't work without you, but a big part of the magic that defines these games for me is the potential for weirdness, variety and creativity from enthusiast writers around the community.
It blew my mind when I learned that ANYONE can just open up a doc, start typing and if it holds up to guidelines and quality standards it can get in the game.

I started countless docs over the years myself, endlessly rewriting, deleting, abandoning, rediscovering, rewriting again and almost never submitting them. All the good stuff of being an enthusiast without the necessary skill. And I loved every second of tinkering.
Whenver I remember that I actually got a stupid, tentaclesex dream scene into TiTS I feel incredibly silly about it. But I am also bursting with pride. That's MY stupid tentacle dream scene.

The Fencrew&Co has my trust regarding future changes. You worked on these games, you know what can be improved. I just, selfishly and sincerely, hope, that you will keep allowing submissions from community writers (like @Couch !) in the future. They truly breath additional life into these games and elevate them for me.

You guys took the words right out of my mouth XD.

But yeah, as someone who never really got super invested in the main plotline, I've always thought of TiTS as more of a collaborative smutty sandbox than a traditional RPG. Having so many different authors helps bring a ton of variety (both in terms of storytelling tones and different fetishes) to the game and keep it feeling fresh even over a decade later.

Amen, brothers.

 

[LonelyHydra]

This is so insanely agreeable. The game has absolutely cemented the idea that literally everyone wants to fuck Steele and it kinda erodes the weight of the individual player character. Let NPCs have standards and preferences, I say! I feel like I remember that being acceptable in early development of the first CoC and TiTS

"Everyone gives you the basic Cuddle, but the freaky stuff you have to work for and maintain" is sound game design.

 

[Nino]

"Everyone gives you the basic Cuddle, but the freaky stuff you have to work for and maintain" is sound game design.

Not even that far lmao
Give them the choice to not advance beyond normal courtesy or friendship
We have peeps like the Rhodenian Engineer who gives you an id to help against the robots and not a damn thing further and that's perfectly okay

 

[LonelyHydra]

Not even that far lmao
Give them the choice to not advance beyond normal courtesy or friendship
We have peeps like the Rhodenian Engineer who gives you an id to help against the robots and not a damn thing further and that's perfectly okay

Yeah, I always did find the rejection of player concerns to be overblown.

I do understand wanting to brag about how cool my monster girl waifu is, though.

 

[SorenMageofMareth]

I should note that a lot of the time when a new race comes out, there's one specific thing that I want from it to further refine my character or to play with some new fetish, rather than necessarily wanting to use the race wholecloth. Zaika are a very good example: tail sex is fantastic and zaika tails provide an excellent way to get all of that content, but I'm often applying a zaika tail to something else rather than necessarily wanting the character to outright be a zaika. A lot of my TiTS runs default to a hellhound Steele, but I like the look of vanae body markings so I almost always take those, I like the look of bull-style horns more than demon-style ones so I prefer to use those, I like long and prehensile tongues so I grab those from somewhere, etc. I don't necessarily vary a lot in the core race that I'm using, but more races give me more options to improve the central design more and more to my liking, sometimes in ways that I wasn't previously considering.

I feel this alot. It would be cool if Tits have a bunch of installations similar too and extending from the dong designer and ultimately congeal into a sort of pod that lets you edit you character after collecting and adding in the relevant tf sources.


So you don't have to play code monkey with console or save editing.

Dong Designer, Tit Tittilator, Skin Sculptor, Hairdressinator, Vaginals Varigator, Tail twister, Wing Web, and the Body Bakinator.

 

[razor777]

I should note that a lot of the time when a new race comes out, there's one specific thing that I want from it to further refine my character or to play with some new fetish, rather than necessarily wanting to use the race wholecloth. Zaika are a very good example: tail sex is fantastic and zaika tails provide an excellent way to get all of that content, but I'm often applying a zaika tail to something else rather than necessarily wanting the character to outright be a zaika. A lot of my TiTS runs default to a hellhound Steele, but I like the look of vanae body markings so I almost always take those, I like the look of bull-style horns more than demon-style ones so I prefer to use those, I like long and prehensile tongues so I grab those from somewhere, etc. I don't necessarily vary a lot in the core race that I'm using, but more races give me more options to improve the central design more and more to my liking, sometimes in ways that I wasn't previously considering.

I don't play as a specific race myself, most of the time I come across a new race or one I haven't dealt with/seen before and TF that goes with it, I look to see if there's any parts from it I want and then move on to the next(heck in some cases I don't even take a body part, I just take whatever perk is associated with said race—I mean it still counts as me assimilating part of that race into my steele's hodgepodge/chimeric DNA).

 

[Dad™]

Hello, random people on the internet, I'm here to complain about things again. Occasionally I'll roll up a buttslut futa who's trying to keep her vaginal virginity while taking as many others as possible, and I always hit a certain stopgap of "this scene didn't give me the option of anal, so now I have to reload a save because my Steel didn't get the memo and jumped right on the pole". I'd just like some indicator of what hole(s) are going to be used in scenes. At least the ones I'm choosing myself because SOMETIMES a herm just wants to lose their virginity to a giant psychic dragon on an ice planet and not the chubby cat artist who approached her a day earlier.

Also, speaking of Anal, I'd really like if males with buttslut didn't get gigantic asses because my dude does NOT need an entire bakery back there when his hips and torso make him an inverted dorito.

And speaking of male bodies...I just want a the mannequin for a fat male body to have a bear shape instead of the aformentioned dorito-shape plus pregnant belly.

 

[razor777]

How the hell does our cousin catch up to us every time, if canonically we beat them to the punch at every probe?