Vic 2.0 (Not you)

OnyxDrakkenblade

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2016
503
83
And that's totally fine. Knowing it's 100% on me and my skewed interpretations will probably help me just shut the fuck up about it in the future.

Why would we want you to not talk? Your opinions and views, though different than some others, are just as valuable.

There's a difference between offering a kid the promise of stability, familial mentoring, and opportunity in the form of inherited employment and basing their entire existence/upbringing around that idea. Vic does the latter.

I can see how this interpretation could come about, but what if it was less of a machiavellian plot and more of a hail mary from a dying man? Or maybe, it was the desires of a man who'd seen the universe to make sure that the next person who took over his company was either his heir who'd discovered something about themselves through struggle (the only path to growth and change) or a corporate initiate that would at least keep the company in business, if not in the family. Or who knows maybe something that none of us had thought of?

I don't see it as Vic pushing to Steele to develop as a person. To me, it reads like Vic is pushing Steele to develop into Vic. Every suggestion and piece of advice is colored with the ulterior motive of angling Steele towards the eventual probe hunt. If that's not the way it's meant to come across, then there could just be a conveyance issue. I know I'm not the only one that has some qualms with Vic, but maybe I am the only one interpreting the scenes this way by putting too much of what I want to read into it. It's a valid concern that I've brought up myself on several occasions.

This seems like confirmation bias to me. I see no clear indications of ulterior motive. Perhaps the strong desire for his company to stay "in the family", still not seeing Vic the nefarious planner here.

You could do all of those without Vic shoving you out the airlock. In fact, you could probably do them better, or at least with significantly more freedom. 

I don't understand how Vic trying to protect his heir apparent from falling into the same traps that ultimately killed him, while trying to share a depth of experience that could not be carried in a mere 20 years, is "shoving you out the airlock". Every person goes through at least one crucible in life. I see Vic as someone that knew this experientially. Someone that wanted their heir to have gone through that crucible somewhere OTHER than a corporate board room with the fate of a meaningful empire in the balance. This is like a kid today working a summer job to pay for their half of a car for their sixteenth birthday (in US).

This goes back to all the discussion about why preg/long-term relationship content struggles to work well in TiTS.

I still think that Vic sterilexing Jr. is wrong. I think that if Jr. wants to go out and get preggos or get someone else preggo and start a family and that's more important to them than following in daddy's footsteps GREAT more power to em. I think it should lead to a "good" bad end though.

Captain Steele is occupied with something, that something being the rush/probe hunt, and their life goals are out of their hands because of it. Because Dad filled those hands with his own expectations and plans. If Vic had just given you a regular inheritance, like a portion of his fortune alongside a scant few possessions like the Codex, immune boosters, and the Casstech (or maybe scratching the fortune altogether and just going with the items), what would be stopping Steele from setting out on their own journey of self-discovery just for the hell of it?

Since when do protagonists in story's come out of "for the hell of it". There HAS to be a bit of a set up. Would it be better to have a total deus ex machina thing where you get your crap from daddy and then someone just writes in the intro ". . . so you decide you're going to go fuck the princess of Tormegantia then jump into the planetrush. . ." That seems like sooo much better story to me. *pulls of the sarcasm mask* At least with the Vic story there can be read into it a sense of rapport, or famillial bond, or insert YOUR feelers for daddy here that results in you choosing to follow suggestion.

That's fair, but the issue of Steele's actual mother still persists. I know it's a subject that's hard to approach that would also serve little to no purpose outside of fluff, but it does feel like a pretty prominent loose end.

Steelemom was for all intents and purposes the equivalent of a surrogate mother. Did she bear a child with her genetics involved? Sure. Did Vic threaten her, violate her, intimidate her, rape her? Is there ANY indication that steelemom is ANYTHING less than happy with the arrangements? nope. In fact, quite to the contrary there's a line in the intro right after you pick your race where it says basically that after some searching a suitable mother is found and that she is overjoyed or somesuch about being involved. Steelemom is NOT in ANY way portrayed as a victim of any harm FULL STOP.

But he's the catalyst for the plot. The way the player views Vic controls how they view the whole premise of the probe hunt. If he's an obviously likable, maybe even endearing character, the story is that much more engaging and people are more likely to get invested in it. It's also much easier to write character connections when he's a firmly defined character himself. They way he is now, I feel like I shouldn't trust/associate with anyone that liked him, despite characters like Anno obviously being positive influences.

Yes catalysts are ALWAYS tiny quantities compared to the whole. The intro story is written, I believe intentionally, in such a way that the PLAYER determines how they view Vic. Which opens up ALL of the room for interpretation that we're seeing here. BUT it also opens the door for the player to put themselves into the PC's shoes, just like so many other parts of the story for Steele Jr. If Vic is obviously ANYTHING then we step into the territory of TELLING the player how to feel. The point is that if the PC is the amorphous blob of whatever the fuck you want her/him to be then daddy dearest hast to be significantly more amorphous than most other characters in the game, and I'm not talking about tails, wings and swiss army dicks here.

You're right that most people probably don't care even a little bit, and that all of my whining and projecting is not only wasted, it just serves to royally piss people off. If no one's here for anything but porn, that's fair. But I don't think I'm the only person that sees TiTS as a little more than just porn. I believe that every earnest story is valid in some form, and TiTS does feel very earnest to me. It's one reason I came out of hiding and began to post on the forum in the first place. It's the reason I feel so strongly about all of these relatively asinine elements of the game.

Again, your beliefs and conclusions are fully valid, not necessarily agreed with, but fully acceptable. My conclusion is that Vic is important enough to the self-determinism of the PC that if Vic is overly defined, then the player's ability to determine the PCs psychological characteristics is at BEST hampered and EASILY destroyed.
 

OnyxDrakkenblade

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2016
503
83
Can we just talk about goofy ideas like robodad again?

Absolutely, I kinda don't like robodad or any variation of Vic coming back into the game. I swear I don't disagree with you just to disagree >.< I just think it takes away from story in the same way I was speaking about before.Defining Vic takes away from the story in my estimation. As far as kink goes . . . bring it on "Yeah robodad give me and robomo a new generation of Steele!"
 

Nonesuch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 27, 2015
2,225
3,695
I'm going to have to just check out of this discussion. You're obviously reading very different things into my writing than what was intended, and there's little I'm going to be able to do about it in the short term. I could spend another 30 minutes to an hour sorting through your message and trying to address you point by point, but my time would better be spent coding Wsan's submission or burning some calories on a pokewalk.


Suffice to say that Victor is not meant to come off as a deadbeat, manipulative jerk for the PC's upbringing, even if he was fairly absent for his bastards.


then there could just be a conveyance issue.

Just going to quietly suggest that this is the main issue. Fen clearly wrote Vic intending for the audience to see him as a great guy, someone you would naturally aspire to. Me, Misty and others read him differently. Although Jim did his best with it, I think the intro is at its core not very good.
 

Savin

Master Analmander
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
6,232
10,151
Just going to quietly suggest that this is the main issue. Fen clearly wrote Vic intending for the audience to see him as a great guy, someone you would naturally aspire to. Me, Misty and others read him differently.

Honestly, I don't see the problem with that. I read him the same way you and Misty do; Fen and Wsan and others think Vic was a good dude. Letting you read what you want into the player character's past and upbringing just lets you roleplay a little more -- or at least, craft your own Steele a little more to your personal view on things. 
 

shadefalcon

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2015
1,658
984
Can we just talk about goofy ideas like robodad again?

Sure thing. This thread was starting to get a bit...*Puts on glasses* Misty. YEAAAAAAAHHHHHH


But yeah, back to VicRobot. I don´t think I´d mind him being a robot either. It wouldn´t be the first time someone went to give himself a full on synthetic body in TiTS, so lore wise it would make total sense.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2015
2,407
506
Moscow, RF
How much of robodad's new identity will be the result of his new experiences and/or programming by whomever will create him, and how much of it will be a genuine Tricky Vic's old self?And more importantly, will he inhabit a body of a perky robo-puppy futa, or one of a knock-out gorgeous robo-dragon babe?
 
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jarllee97

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2016
231
13
When did this turn into my favorite people bitching at each other.


STOP IT! YOU'RE TEARING THIS FAMILY APART!!
 

Nik_van_Rijn

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2015
2,407
506
Moscow, RF
Edit: so my damn phone submitted a shadow of an unsent post instead of what I was going to sent. Sorry guys.
 
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Noob Salad

Captain Shitpost
Aug 26, 2015
4,367
1,560
I love you guys but there's a difference between subjectivity and being delusional.


You should just write your own intro and submit it. I'm not even suggesting that out of spite, I'd genuinely like to see how you guys would portray Vic. I mean, I thought he was fine as is.
 
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Noob Salad

Captain Shitpost
Aug 26, 2015
4,367
1,560
Share it with me?
 
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K

Krynh

Guest
Personally I'd find it a bit creepy that there's a robo-dad going around after meat-dad died. If he set up one, what was the point in having you and sending you off on the adventure of a life-time?
 

Glassboy

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2015
185
100
Ireland
So if Vic was to create a roboclone what sort of A.I. would it be?

Looking at Smutosaur, it says there are (currently) three types of A.I in TiTS, they each sound like they'd have their advantages story wise. If he went with a V.I. type robot it would work for a "I wanted someone to stand in my place and lead Steele Tech 'till Junior gets back, but not actually replace me" type of plot. (You could also name the robot V.I.C.)

From the description of a Designed A.I. it sounds like it could open the possibility of RoboVic going all HAL 9000 at Steele Tech and our young Steele would have to come in and kick the shit out of it, a symbolic representation of them becoming a greater person than their Father ever was. (Also possibly helping the people who don't like Vic to vent some frustration. :p)

A Grown A.I. would be a bit more interesting because it's description states that it's " created by taking a brainscan of undeveloped infant brain". Vic obviously not being an infant could open up more possible crazy story lines... or you could just decide that it wouldn't fit the lore. But also would Vic actually be able to afford this? I know he's crazy rich but grown A.I. sound like the most expensive models, where as they'd usually be mass created and turned for a profit this would be a single one created just for Vic's eccentric reasons. Could open an "I accidentally led Steele Tech into debt" scenario.

Of course there's the possibility we could just come up with a new type of A.I. :D.

Hope my suggestions are helpful, or at least entertaining. :)
 

Non Entity

Member
Jul 19, 2016
5
0
No, absolutely do not blame the OP.

Thanks brah, but it was naive of me to see how much you disliked Vic and not even think that those feelings would reach a boiling point over a discussion about a figure that represents him. (In the future you all will realize I am the world's most elaborate shit poster.)

So if Vic was to create a roboclone what sort of A.I. would it be?

Looking at Smutosaur, it says there are (currently) three types of A.I in TiTS, they each sound like they'd have their advantages story wise. If he went with a V.I. type robot it would work for a "I wanted someone to stand in my place and lead Steele Tech 'till Junior gets back, but not actually replace me" type of plot. (You could also name the robot V.I.C.)

 No matter how/if Vic 2.0 gets in the game, They have to call it V.I.C.

How much of robodad's new identity will be the result of his new experiences and/or programming by whomever will create him, and how much of it will be a genuine Tricky Vic's old self?And more importantly, will he inhabit a body of a perky robo-puppy futa, or one of a knock-out gorgeous robo-dragon babe?

Puppy obviously, there are so few in the game.
 
K

Krynh

Guest
What kind of AI is Bess/Ben? I feel like they're a fourth type.


Maybe have Robo-vic be trying to make up for his shortcomings by finding all his other offspring and letting them know about their origin.
 

Glassboy

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2015
185
100
Ireland
Grown AI can't be that expensive, Saendra has one and she's as dirt-poor as they come.

Keep in mind Saendra's has had Valeria since she was a kid, it could have been a present from a Rich Grandmother we don't know about also Valeria is a holo-projection, she doesn't have a function body also also Valeria might be a bog standard mass produced A.I., compared that to Vic wanting one A.I. produced specifically for him.

It's like if you went to the store to buy a standard fizzy drink for 1.80, compared to if you contacted a soda manufacturing and asked them to create and make a tuna flavoured drink just for you, someone would have to "invent" the flavour so to speak, source the ingredients, create packaging for it, put it through taste tests, make sure it passes regulations and health checks and deliver it from the production factory to the bottling factory and then to you. And then remember that they probably wont be able to market or sell this product. It'd probably cost a bit more than 1.80.
 

Nik_van_Rijn

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2015
2,407
506
Moscow, RF
Grown AI can't be that expensive, Saendra has one and she's as dirt-poor as they come.

I think that she got Valeria as a present from a Black Void big wig when back she was growing up among them.

Talk with Anno about Akkadi R&D.


"One of the King’s kids had been taken by religious fanatics pissed that she’d ditched her dying body for cyberware."

Technically, it can be more along the lines of massive organ transplantation using inorganic parts, which is weird considering that in TiTS inorganic spare parts are considered to be the sub-par alternative for poor people and weirdos; or just transferring a modified living brain into a fully robotic body, GitS style, although again, wouldn't making a spare organic body more sense?

What kind of AI is Bess/Ben? I feel like they're a fourth type.


Maybe have Robo-vic be trying to make up for his shortcomings by finding all his other offspring and letting them know about their origin.

Bess/n is an AI-D the creators of which tried to make it as close as possible to AI-G in order to compete with their rival's premium companion droids. That's what made most of the series' robots unstable, and that's what allowed Ben/ss to grow a out of the programming restrictions because those were set too loosely.
 
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Glassboy

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2015
185
100
Ireland
Well unless they can force grow a clone body without a brain. Replacement parts or robot body seems the only choices

Actually fully plausible, I mean have you heared about the scientists growing hamburgers today?
The issue though is Vic's body is failing him, and the brain is part of the body. 
 

Nik_van_Rijn

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2015
2,407
506
Moscow, RF
Well unless they can force grow a clone body without a brain. Replacement parts or robot body seems the only choices

I don't know if those things are legal in UGC, but they certainly are possible. They have arm-in-a-syringe, so growing bodies in a vat should be yesterday news.
 
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Krynh

Guest
Actually fully plausible, I mean have you heared about the scientists growing hamburgers today?
The issue though is Vic's body is failing him, and the brain is part of the body. 

There's a big difference in growing muscle fibres and a body. Then there's the whole ethical issue of making a clone and killing it for a brain transplant. Whereas growing replacement organs has no ethical issues and less complex. 
 

Glassboy

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2015
185
100
Ireland
There's a big difference in growing muscle fibres and a body.

True, but advanced Sci-Fi tech.

Then there's the whole ethical issue of making a clone and killing it for a brain transplant. Whereas growing replacement organs has no ethical issues and less complex. 

You could grow a clone without a brain (or at least what we usually consider to be the brain) but ethical issues could certainly get in the way.
 

Ethereal Dragon

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,003
559
There's a big difference in growing muscle fibres and a body. Then there's the whole ethical issue of making a clone and killing it for a brain transplant. Whereas growing replacement organs has no ethical issues and less complex. 

Easy way to get around this, pull an EVE Online consciousness transfer between bodies (clones that are grown can be stimulated to keep the body healthy but not allow any sort of consciousness to develop.) Really TiTS has the tech to do it since were several thousand years in the future. If you can grow AI's from your own genetic map/brain matter who says you can transfer your mind into another grown body?
 
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