[UPDATE - WIP] Goat Grass: A Goat-Based TF

[epidemico]

Overview of Project: Goat Grass is a transformative item designed to give players access to the physical characteristics of the animal the item is named after. Upon use, all players have a chance to gain: one (1) of three (3) styles -- crescent, ram or crown -- of horns, goat-style eyes (horizontal pupils), ears, goat-style fur and fur color, plantigrade legs, hooves, and tail. Further usage prompts more goat-specific transformations, and can lead to: transformation of largest cock to that of a goat; an increase in the size of testes; a bulking up or slimming down of muscle tone and thickness; hair growth; ear lengthening; horn growth; the development of goat-specific fur patterns, and growth of any preexisting beard.

• Progress: 90% Complete 
  
  
  In-Game Item Description: 100% (Sold by Jade)
  
• Codex Entry: 100% (May elaborate later, may not)
  
• Transformation Text: 50% (All "Appearance Tab," descriptors finished.)
  

[*]Additional Plans: (gonna happen:) transformations specific to preexisting TFs already on character (ie: Taur become Goat Taur); (might happen:) racial perks, hairstyle or beard choice affecting fur descript; (probably not gonna happen overdose transformations, transformations based on mixing to different items together, "mythological," transformations.


Link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XB3abyup5Hyg_sumvP7kdtQ5kWExL2qBpvSy2nWSs3U/edit?usp=sharing


All comments and criticism welcome!


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[Original Post Below ]


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So, hey!


There's code already in-game for to support a description of goat horns (specifically ram-style horns), but sadly not much else. I'm not sure if someone already -- official or not -- has plans to rectify that, buuuuuut if not then here I am to throw my hat into the ring for the attempt. ( Link )


All I've got so far is a rough outline of how the item will transform you, plus ideas for three associated "Major," transformations you can bring about by overdosing and doing some other highly-specific things. Edit: \/\/ithout overdosing, the TF just turns players--both male and female alike--into goat-morphs. (The first of the two Overdose TFs would see a Male PC transform into a Fake or True lookalike of the demon Baphomet edit: of a demonic goat monster, while the third transforms Female PCs into green-skinned Dryads edit: goat-horned protectors of the forest like the Dyrads from \/\/arcraft.) I've also included ideas for Racial Perks/Feats the PC can gain after using this item to become a full-fledged Goat-morph, with each of the previously mentioned transformations having their own unique set. 


(Hopefully, everything I have in mind is possible in the game, lol.)


If you have any comments, questions, or advice: please let me know either here or in the googledoc!

 

[Kesil]

The first two would see a Male PC transform into a Fake or True lookalike of the demon Baphomet, while the third transforms Female PCs into green-skinned Dryads.) I've also included ideas for Racial Perks/Feats the PC can gain after using this item to become a full-fledged Goat-morph, with each of the previously mentioned transformations having their own unique set. 

No. Please, no. No to getting wildly different outcomes depending on one's gender/sex. No to perpetuating a lie about Baphomet being a demon with a goat head (that was Eliphas Lévi's doing). 

 

[epidemico]

No. Please, no. No to getting wildly different outcomes depending on one's gender/sex. No to perpetuating a lie about Baphomet being a demon with a goat head (that was Eliphas Lévi's doing). 

Er, I get you feel strongly about the Baphomet bit...but, first off: it's only Overdosing -- and doing so in a specific manner -- that TFs the PC into those forms. Normal use of the item just results in both sexes becoming more goat-like, with the only specific male/female things occurring then being that males bulk up in muscle while females become less thick and more muscle-bound. (And I'm not even married to that idea in the first place.) Nothing else is mutually exclusive. 


Second, and I mean no disrespect here: but is the whole "this TF turns you into a black goat with demonic features," thing really that big of an issue? It's not like the name I'm using in the document to designate that particular set of transformations will ever show up in game--it's just shorthand to conjure a mental image made into a trope by pop culture.

 

[Xeivous]

Threw in my 2 cents into the doc on the flavor text that warns about the tf having abnormal results when paired with other tfs.

 

[Kesil]

stuff

a) They're just too much of a different thing to put it on the same TF, especially when you're playing the opposite sex/gender yet you still want those changes for your Steele. Plus I know there is/was a plant TF on the works, so it could clash with the dryad changes.


b) No, it's not. I'm just saying it'd be nice if people stopped spreading false claims even if the damage is already done. There's also that thing of working with the mindset of someone working for the marketing folks of x company in the TiTS future instead of someone whose Earth 2016 mindframe wants to cram pop culture bits on a video game item.

 

[Milkman]

Yeah gotta side with Kesil in that there is too big a difference in terns of what the item does for each gender. 


I have less of a problem with the Baphomet thing as long as you don't actually use the term Baohomet. But yeah a female should also be able to become a goat headed demon like thing if they want and vice versa a male should have the option of gaining plant like features. 


And there is also the fact that another plant TF has already been submitted. So yeah if this transomative can potentially induce plant like dryad alteration it should be in line with what the already submited item does. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TmF5Y3Jg2567H4oJcXAtTi7NQ1IcCYOFX8F7Ky3Zwg8/edit?usp=docslist_api

 

[epidemico]

Threw in my 2 cents into the doc on the flavor text that warns about the tf having abnormal results when paired with other tfs.

Noted and changed to "Manufacturer \/\/arning

a) They're just too much of a different thing to put it on the same TF, especially when you're playing the opposite sex/gender yet you still want those changes for your Steele. Plus I know there is/was a plant TF on the works, so it could clash with the dryad changes.


b) No, it's not. I'm just saying it'd be nice if people stopped spreading false claims even if the damage is already done. There's also that thing of working with the mindset of someone working for the marketing folks of x company in the TiTS future instead of someone whose Earth 2016 mindframe wants to cram pop culture bits on a video game item.

a) I can understand the point you bring up, and maybe you can help me out then? My original intent is twofold: on the one hand, I want transformative items to have stark and wholesale effects on a PC if they overdose on them, and that these changes should make the PC -- at least in terms of animal-based PC -- come to resemble either a "supped up version," of the original animal (i.e,: Sharks become Tigersharks) or that overdosing gives a PC the traits of what they want to turn into, but they're very exaggerated. Secondly, I'd also like to make it so that mixing and matching TFs can help players become the hybridized or mythical creatures they so long to become via use of Save Editing; so, for example: taking Goat Grass + eating a Lucifier Apple can help turn a PC into a demonic goat-morph, or taking Goat Grass + using Sylvanol can turn them into a Dryad. (I also had an idea of Goat Grass + alcohol turning males into Satyrs, but I think that's an easy-enough thing to achieve by itself.)


b) Apologies, but I don't quite understand your point -- nowhere in the game will the term "Baphomet," be used in conjunction with what Goat Grass can do when mixed with a Lucifier Apple. I just named it Baphomet in the document for the sake of giving a name to the transformations. In terms of in-game stuff, however: the eventual code entry for the item does have a manufacturer warning against mixing Goat Grass with other TFs as it may have adverse consequences. That's all. 

Yeah gotta side with Kesil in that there is too big a difference in terns of what the item does for each gender. 


I have less of a problem with the Baphomet thing as long as you don't actually use the term Baohomet. But yeah a female should also be able to become a goat headed demon like thing if they want and vice versa a male should have the option of gaining plant like features. 


And there is also the fact that another plant TF has already been submitted. So yeah if this transomative can potentially induce plant like dryad alteration it should be in line with what the already submited item does. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TmF5Y3Jg2567H4oJcXAtTi7NQ1IcCYOFX8F7Ky3Zwg8/edit?usp=docslist_api

A) "Too big a difference in terms of xhat the item does for each gender."


--Do you mean the overdose transformations, or the non-overdose transformations? Because, again: non-overdose transformations are 99% the same between sexes. 


B) Thanks to you and Kesil both for linking me to the Plant-based TF. I'll amend the document shortly to take that into consideration.

 

[PyrateHyena]

--Do you mean the overdose transformations, or the non-overdose transformations? Because, again: non-overdose transformations are 99% the same between sexes.

I think the problem is that the dryad is female exclusive and has little connection to goats. Just get rid of the female-only factor, since it makes no or little sense.

 

[epidemico]

I think the problem is that the dryad is female exclusive and has little connection to goats. Just get rid of the female-only factor, since it makes no or little sense.

The thought process stemmed from a previous idea involving Goat Grass + Alcohol = Satyr, and me not having any other ideas for a female-specific Overdose-TF outside of "\/\/ell, some art depicts Dryads as having goat-like horns..."

 

[PyrateHyena]

I still don't get why it has to be female-specific.

 

[epidemico]

I still don't get why it has to be female-specific.

It doesn't have to be, no. I just thought --some what mistakenly, I guess--that since TFs like "The Treatment," and "Zil Ration," have gender-specific transformations, that it would be okay to try something similar. Especially since the gender-specific transformations have other requirements than just being male or female.

 

[Etis]

Hm... One question about dimorphism. What about herms?

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

"\/\/ell, some art depicts Dryads as having goat-like horns..."

I for one like the idea of becoming a somewhat elf-y goat-lady-of the-forest (goat and fully female version of Gwynn?). Too bad that the term 'dryad ' became too tied with plant people and Sylvania is also sort of occupied.

 

[epidemico]

Hm... One question about dimorphism. What about herms?

Goats aren't super sexually dimorphic outside of males of some species being larger and having bigger horns or goatees (heh) than females. For herms -- and this is something I'm still figuring out -- my idea is to let their masculinity score determine what general morphs they get. (So, if they're more masculine, they get bulkier and such.) 


In terms of ideas for herm-specific "Overdose" Morphs, though: I'm even more stuck there than I am now for female-specific overdose morphs.

I for one like the idea of becoming a somewhat elf-y goat-lady-of the-forest (goat and fully female version of Gwynn?). Too bad that the term 'dryad ' became too tied with plant people and Sylvania is also sort of occupied.

I've seen both representations of it -- the concept of a woman made out of leaves and bark versus a goat-woman with bark antlers or horns -- and didn't think there \/\/as that much of a stretch between one or the other. But it's all a moot point seeing as a plant-based TF is already in the pipeline. (I've also seen them called Satyress, but that sounds strange to me.)

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

I've seen both representations of it -- the concept of a woman made out of leaves and bark versus a goat-woman with bark antlers or horns -- and didn't think there \/\/as that much of a stretch between one or the other. But it's all a moot point seeing as a plant-based TF is already in the pipeline. (I've also seen them called Satyress, but that sounds strange to me.)

How about making the 'forest goat lady' TF a result of mixing your item with Nonesuch's plant one? I know that it just adds on to your workload, but that way your idea won't have to go.

 

[Milkman]

It's fine for TFs to have gender dimorphism but beyond genitals they should remain within certain limits. IE they should still clearly end up as the same target species. The only difference between Male and female zill are that Males have wings and females have tails. The male and female treatments may have differences but at the end of the day the still generally equate to becoming cow folk. The plant TF has gender differences too. Females get flowers and males more easily get bark and wooden horns. But ultimately despite the difference they are still clearly related / end up as members of the same species unlike "baphomets" and dryads.  

 

[epidemico]

How about making the 'forest goat lady' TF a result of mixing your item with Nonesuch's plant one? I know that it just adds on to your workload, but that way your idea won't have to go.

I'ma shoot them a line later, then.

It's fine for TFs to have gender dimorphism but beyond genitals they should remain within certain limits. IE they should still clearly end up as the same target species. The only difference between Male and female zill are that Males have wings and females have tails. The male and female treatments may have differences but at the end of the day the still generally equate to becoming cow folk. The plant TF has gender differences too. Females get flowers and males more easily get bark and wooden horns. But ultimately despite the difference they are still clearly related / end up as members of the same species unlike "baphomets" and dryads.  

The idea is that males become horrifying demon goats (death), while females come to represent life by becoming goat-horned protectors of the forest. And, again: the names I use in the document don't show up in TiTs at all. They're just short-hand so I can keep in mind what my ideas were at the time, or so people reading can get a clear understanding of what I'm going for. \/\/hich is basically just this:

  versus 

 

[Milkman]

The problem is shoehorning males into having to be death, while females have to be life. In that case it might be better to do two separate TF items in the same style of Minocharge and Bovinium. That way even a male can chose to go down the life route or a female can chose to become death. Basically if you're gonna do dimorphism try to keep it within the same theme. For example Male demons get clawed feet, and female demons get spiked heels. As opposed to males being demons and females becoming fallen angels. 

 

[Etis]

It's fine for TFs to have gender dimorphism but beyond genitals they should remain within certain limits. IE they should still clearly end up as the same target species. The only difference between Male and female zill are that Males have wings and females have tails. The male and female treatments may have differences but at the end of the day the still generally equate to becoming cow folk. The plant TF has gender differences too. Females get flowers and males more easily get bark and wooden horns. But ultimately despite the difference they are still clearly related / end up as members of the same species unlike "baphomets" and dryads.  





 






 

I think it's not an actual problem since it is sort of "hidden feature" of the artificial transformative. But such things should be justified by something since they are too consistent for an accidental bug. Especially with perks and such.

 

[Kesil]

moar stuff

I play CoC and TiTS for the TFing factor first, believe it or not. If the wiki says that I have to overdose my character on x to get y, I will. Of course, I can always fire Minerva up and try my luck, but I'd rather shape my characters the way I want in a satisfying way with little hassle for the player (read it as "not being forced to savescum for hours on end"). The mix-and-match concept sounds a bit convoluted, but the player should have fun trying out combinations if hints are given. As a player who cares more for fantasy beings than plain ol' furries, I'd like to see that "alchemy" going on thanks to Steele's nanomachines, son. Now, things like "Goat Grass + alcohol turning males into Satyrs" are exactly what I'm against: as a satyr enthusiast (why do you think I clicked on the thread name? I still feel bitter that ram horns can only be attained when the stars align over New Texas) and as someone who plays the main runs as a female herm, gating contents "for male characters only" or "for female characters only" wears me out a little. Moreso if the different outputs have little to do with each other (that shoehorning Milkman typed about) even if you try to handwave it with race dimorphism. I guess this is one of the reasons why  I'm not too keen on TF items not based on game races. That, and stereotypes. Actually, I'd very much like to play a male Steele as an affable, randy goat horned protector of the forest and have a way to play a literal female Steele, Destroyer of Worlds.

 

[epidemico]

The problem is shoehorning males into having to be death, while females have to be life. In that case it might be better to do two separate TF items in the same style of Minocharge and Bovinium. That way even a male can chose to go down the life route or a female can chose to become death. Basically if you're gonna do dimorphism try to keep it within the same theme. For example Male demons get clawed feet, and female demons get spiked heels. As opposed to males being demons and females becoming fallen angels. 

There is no shoehorning, though. I very much get where you and others are coming from in terms of "wanting to have it all," and I'll admit that's an oversight of audience on my part; but you have to make a conscious decision in-game to achieve the mythical aspects of the transformations associated with this item. Just using Goat Grass by itself  will not turn you into anything other than a goat-morph  with a slight variation in standard goat-specific characteristics. Have I not been clear enough on that? And the only dimorphism happening, here, is that:


1) physique-wise, using Goat Grass makes males more burly and strongman-looking, and female goats look more like track and field runners,


and 


2) anyone with male genitalia will: have their testes and grow if not a certain size, have their cum production increased, and their over-all thickness decreased because biologically goats have thin and tubular penises and huge nuts. (Penis-havers also have a chance of growing a mane of hair around their neck and shoulders when they fully become goat-morphs, but at this point as may as well make that available to both.)


That's it.


Males and females both have the same chance of getting different goat-style horns (including ram horns!!), and every other goat-related morph (eyes, fur, fur patterns, etc) is available to every and anyone -- the only things I made specific, in this case, are things that happen when players go out of their way to mix and match morphs, which then resulted in my idea of the item allowing players who wanted a specific look, but didn't want to savescum or use minerva, to simply use in-game items to get the kind of look they wanted; ie: a demonic goat, satyr, or goat-based dryad.


In the end, anyone just using the normal TF by itself will end up looking like a goat anthro, be they male or female, and both male and female characters have the same chance of getting crescent, ram-style, or any other kind of horns described in the googledoc. Nothing is mutually exclusive there.

Snip

First off: my plan is that, if you make a basic Human-based Steele? Of any junk-related config? Then using this item twice will have a large chance of turning you into a person that looks like a Satyr (or Satyress) with ram-style horns. Secondly: I've taken the whole "I want to be both!" thing into consideration insofar as the "mythic overdose," aspects of the item are and appear in the document right now, and am thinking of what to do next. I honestly didn't expect this much blowback from something I--I suppose mistakenly--thought wouldn't be a huge deal, especially in terms of non-game-affecting naming schemes.

 

[Jacques00]

There are some distinctions that can be made here in terms of functionality: If an item outlines "male or female", usually it is interpreted as a gender function (meaning whatever the gender the character chooses in the Appearance menu or whatever is automatically selected based on physical traits of the character) unless otherwise stated (like if the transform explicitly mentions a penis for a masculine transform, then that male transform will be nested under a penis requirement). If the item takes in the actual sex of the character, then a genital check will be put in place. If the item calls for both gender and sex needing to be checked, then both will be taken into consideration.


In terms of flexibility, a simple gender check is the most flexible as it will not bar the player from getting a certain outcome (of course, swapping the gender preference in the appearance screen might be counter to role-play, but it is still a game functionality if the player decides to use it). The least flexible would be the combo of gender and genital checks as that limits the pool of possible character schemes to be able to use the item for a certain effect limited by those criteria.


I don't think there is anything wrong bundling some random transformations that will trigger when certain circumstances are met as long as there is some clear, in-game forewarning--similar to how bad ends are handled. The bundling, while possibly excessive, shouldn't be an issue at all--I mean, there are a lot of items already and not enough appropriately-themed vendors to sell them all. If such effects are hidden behind gender/sex checks, then take into consideration the flexibility options outlined above.

 

[epidemico]

Update: 1/7/2016


Project is essentially done in terms of legwork, with only the texts describing each of the transformations you go through needing to be written out and finalized. (An hour or two of work, at best.) I'd like to "spice up," what a player could have happen to them, re: the characteristics they gain in terms of goat-parts and/or looking like a goat; but outside of the work already put into the horn-specific transformations, I'm out of ideas. There anything you guys/gals think I'm missing?

 

[GoryMRGhoul]

Er, I get you feel strongly about the Baphomet bit...but, first off: it's only Overdosing -- and doing so in a specific manner -- that TFs the PC into those forms. Normal use of the item just results in both sexes becoming more goat-like, with the only specific male/female things occurring then being that males bulk up in muscle while females become less thick and more muscle-bound. (And I'm not even married to that idea in the first place.) Nothing else is mutually exclusive.


Second, and I mean no disrespect here: but is the whole "this TF turns you into a black goat with demonic features," thing really that big of an issue? It's not like the name I'm using in the document to designate that particular set of transformations will ever show up in game--it's just shorthand to conjure a mental image made into a trope by pop culture.

Dude please let this happen I back you up on the Baphomet part 100% and I have a feeling of what overdose number is

 

[Upcast Drake]

What a necro Mark.

 

[NotYouNorI]

And not to mention that SoAndSo has an goat/baphomet TF which is already finished, made for his Entite shop and waiting to be coded in.

 

[XBoxMaster131]

This whole thing is a dream come true for Sexualobster.