Not really. Romantic!Kas has a (missable) scene where you can learn what she wants with your soul and that it's possible to reverse demonhood and seeing that lets you ask Kas about 'Redemption', which triggers the quest of the same name. The entire idea behind that is to find a way to restore Kas' soul without destroying her personality (which is what happens if you successfully use lethicite to re-soul a demon) or give her your own (which she wants to conceive a true child, not to replace her own soul).
When you get Kas' conversation about having a true (demon) child you're given the choice of how to react, with 'Sure, use my soul so we can have a child' on one end and 'Fuck no, my soul stays where it is' on the other. There's also an in-between 'Can't we find a better way?' option. So at no point are you required to promise you'll give her your soul.
Demons obsess and are possessive, but they can't actually love. They can be affectionate towards things and people they enjoy. But feel empathy for people? They lost that ability. I don't know where you think you saw it "proven" but don't mistake headcanon for the real thing. It will always be an imperfect imitation of what they used to feel. I mean that is literally the downside of being a demon in the CoC universe - the power that was gained in the transformation was at the cost of losing their empathy and positive emotions becoming muted and dulled. You actually experience this briefly after having sex with Kasyrra in the Halloween event and she will mention these downsides when you discuss what a demon is with her at her Dream Palace, if I remember right. Aileh also says that while Kas cares about her and her sisters what she gives isn't Love. If Sandre and Caera's content even remotely eludes to that (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't and you might have just read into it a little) it would be a big lorebreak and probably should be edited.
Actually the bad end you get from being defeated during the 'Getting into the Closet' dungeon reveals that Kasyrra genuinely loves the champ, and that the champ, who at this point has been forcibly demonised, loves her back (note I had had enough sex with Kas before doing this quest to qualify for her romantic path, but hadn't completed the Winter City to lock it in - so I don't know if that affected the content of the ending). You both conclude that you're not normal demons (anymore, in Kas' case, and she's really shocked by this), though the outcome of the ending means you're not able to investigate why - but on the other hand we do get to find out what Tollus wanted that prism for, so there's that.
It's a huge revelation to be tucked away in a bad end, with massive implications for Kasyrra's motivations, Tollus' plans, and for potential endings. It's made me scrutinise Kasyrra's romantic scenes post Winter City, as well as her interactions with Aileh and Freja.
Tollus said she was infatuated with you...
"I'm not just infatuated with you — well, I might have been to begin with. But... you dummy. I could've taken your soul any time, from the moment we first met. And yet... for some reason, I couldn't bring myself to do it. That's not right. Demons don't think that way, not usually. And it troubled me, in all those nights when I was looking for you... why? Why couldn't I bring myself to do it?
"Then I knew why... I love you, Nyamh. That's impossible. Demons don't love — they don't care for anyone or anything but themselves, that's what happens when you lose your soul. But I did anyway. It defied everything I learned and discovered about the nature of the soul during my time in Lethice's service. I told myself it was just for science, I wanted to investigate this phenomenon, find a way to explain it, observe your soul for a while before harvesting it for my own... and somewhere along the way..."
...
"I love you, Nyamh!" Kasyrra moans in between earth-shaking smashes. "I love you!"
Y-you love her, too!
You increase your pace and make your thrusts deeper and harder, bottoming out each time you push into Kasyrra, making the horny demoness cry out each time. You can't be that good, nor is she inexperienced in any way or form...
...Maybe it really is love, like she said?
...
Time loses meaning as the two of you fuck each other for what seems like forever, trying to come up with increasingly interesting ways to make the other feel good. Selflessness...
... Another thing demons aren't capable of...
What goes on outside the walls of your prison? Did Tollus conquer the world and rule over it as its demonic master? What happened to Hawkethorne and everyone you knew? Will another champion rise to challenge the new demon? You don't know, nor do you care.
You love Kasyrra, and she loves you; within this prison, the two of you are changing each other, from demons into... something else. When Tollus finally falls and your prison shatters, you'll see what's become of the world, Kasyrra at your side.
For now, though... the two of you are here for each other.
Actually the bad end you get from being defeated during the 'Getting into the Closet' dungeon reveals that Kasyrra genuinely loves the champ, and that the champ, who at this point has been forcibly demonised, loves her back (note I had had enough sex with Kas before doing this quest to qualify for her romantic path, but hadn't completed the Winter City to lock it in - so I don't know if that affected the outcome of the ending). You both conclude that you're not normal demons (anymore, in Kas' case, and she's really shocked by this), though the outcome of the ending means you're not able to investigate why - but on the other hand we do get to find out what Tollus wanted that prism for, so there's that.
It's a huge revelation to be tucked away in a bad end, with massive implications for Kasyrra's motivations, Tollus' plans, and for potential endings. It's made me scrutinise Kasyrra's romantic scenes post Winter City, as well as her interactions with Aileh and Freja.
Tollus said she was infatuated with you...
"I'm not just infatuated with you — well, I might have been to begin with. But... you dummy. I could've taken your soul any time, from the moment we first met. And yet... for some reason, I couldn't bring myself to do it. That's not right. Demons don't think that way, not usually. And it troubled me, in all those nights when I was looking for you... why? Why couldn't I bring myself to do it?
"Then I knew why... I love you, Nyamh. That's impossible. Demons don't love — they don't care for anyone or anything but themselves, that's what happens when you lose your soul. But I did anyway. It defied everything I learned and discovered about the nature of the soul during my time in Lethice's service. I told myself it was just for science, I wanted to investigate this phenomenon, find a way to explain it, observe your soul for a while before harvesting it for my own... and somewhere along the way..."
...
"I love you, Nyamh!" Kasyrra moans in between earth-shaking smashes. "I love you!"
Y-you love her, too!
You increase your pace and make your thrusts deeper and harder, bottoming out each time you push into Kasyrra, making the horny demoness cry out each time. You can't be that good, nor is she inexperienced in any way or form...
...Maybe it really is love, like she said?
...
Time loses meaning as the two of you fuck each other for what seems like forever, trying to come up with increasingly interesting ways to make the other feel good. Selflessness...
... Another thing demons aren't capable of...
What goes on outside the walls of your prison? Did Tollus conquer the world and rule over it as its demonic master? What happened to Hawkethorne and everyone you knew? Will another champion rise to challenge the new demon? You don't know, nor do you care.
You love Kasyrra, and she loves you; within this prison, the two of you are changing each other, from demons into... something else. When Tollus finally falls and your prison shatters, you'll see what's become of the world, Kasyrra at your side.
For now, though... the two of you are here for each other.
If you read those scenes it sounds like they becoming something other than demon so I don't know if that applies.
The Wraiths seem to suffer changes to become the Seven as well so probably something similar for demons
Even during that scene the champions questions whether it really is love, Kasyrra doesn't sound certain either to me rather they've convinced themselves that what they are feeling is love. You must also remember that bad ends aren't canon and more "what ifs." At this point unless Savin literally comes out of the woodwork and states Demons can develop love, everything else in game that is canon points to it not being possible as far as I can tell.
If you read those scenes it sounds like they becoming something other than demon so I don't know if that applies.
The Wraiths seem to suffer changes to become the Seven as well so probably something similar for demons
Even during that scene the champions questions whether it really is love, Kasyrra doesn't sound certain either to me rather they've convinced themselves that what they are feeling is love. You must also remember that bad ends aren't canon and more "what ifs." At this point unless Savin literally comes out of the woodwork and states Demons can develop love, everything else in game that is canon points to it not being possible as far as I can tell.
The ending itself isn't canon, but Kas states that this is her real reason for not taking the champ's soul as soon as possible. And the way I read it, her hesitancy comes from her surprise at her feelings, rather than uncertainty of them.
Your original point was that Kas can't really love you - your relationship with her is one-sided unless she can be redeemed. This suggests there could be an outcome to the game where you don't redeem Kas, maybe even become a demon yourself, but still get a good ending where you're in a relationship with her.
I haven't had a soul-bound playthrough myself. Part of that, pre-LumiaQuest, was because I didn't want to be a part of the oppressively-rigid kitsune culture (I was originally hoping to become a kitsune in my first playthrough, since that was my favourite build in COC1, but actually meeting them put me off ). But a major factor is that I want to see how my relationship with Kas develops. I don't want to forestall any possible outcomes with her.
On the flip side, if you do soul bind and tell her, she absolutely flips on you and gets locked on Hostile - there is no coming back from this outcome. If she truly loved you, yeah she probably be mad and upset for a bit but it would be correctable, she'd respect you not wanting to lose your soul - it isn't hers to take. This is why I say it's a pale imitation of what real love is. They can simulate maybe, but I don't agree that it'll ever become love as nondemonic entities can feel it. The only time I believe you'll have a true loving relationship with Kas is in the redemption path. I don't really see it any other way and as far as I can tell it is the more likely scenario, unless I am corrected by the developers. I mean I get it. I like Kas too, but as far as the game is currently I don't think she can love sans the redemption path. We just will have to agree to disagree at this point.
Oh boy, such a opportunity to bring up "Bad end isn't canon!" gun!
But that would push me to the side of the hypocrites, so I won't.
And on topic, Kas can obviously feel affection, but what kind of affection is it? Like to favorite pet or the sex toy that's the most fun? She wants, really wants to know love, or rather remember what it is, she wasn't born a demon, according to her. But she just can't! That's what it is to be a demon. I believe that demons can build bonds of relationships, some kind of friendship, even a functional society, but it's all going to be kind of fakes, as if they were trying to acting.
And if memory serves me correctly, Kas has emphasized more than once that Champion's soul is in fact her property, she just lets us carry it, for now. But when the time comes she won't hesitate, no matter what Champ thinks about it. After all she is a demon, and demons are inherently selfish.
I certainly don't want to do that to her, more for the reason that I don't see any gods worthy of my soul, but also because I really want exactly the "something better" option for her too.
If she truly loved you, yeah she probably be mad and upset for a bit but it would be correctable, she'd respect you not wanting to lose your soul - it isn't hers to take.
What, a demon can't have dealbreakers? like "i thought we had an agreement! i let it go when you're thwartin' my plans, i didn't cause ANY drama when you got my adoptive daughter pregnant - i made you garlic bread! - but you just tossed your soul over to some douchebag "god" so you could have permanent floof?" good for her for maintaining boundries tbh
What, a demon can't have dealbreakers? like "i thought we had an agreement! i let it go when you're thwartin' my plans, i didn't cause ANY drama when you got my adoptive daughter pregnant - i made you garlic bread! - but you just tossed your soul over to some douchebag "god" so you could have permanent floof?" good for her for maintaining boundries tbh
That's fine if it was an agreement, but it never was an agreement. She just demanded the Champions soul. Period. In fact that conversation I mentioned is the very conversation where you get to choose whether you are okay to provide your soul, say you are unsure, flat out refuse- or if you are soulbound, to tell her that you are. There was no consent on the use of your soul up till that point. So I think what you are saying is moot. If what your relationship would be based on is you just accepting that she can take what is very much yours, then it ain't love.
A person can have conflicting desires and motivations. Kas' desire to use your soul to make herself a child is in conflict with her desire to preserve you as you are, whether she feels love or merely infatuation with you. She's kidding herself when she tells herself taking your soul won't change you and might be a deal-breaker for you.
So yeah, she's in conflict with herself and she's driven by her passions ('cus demon), so when she finds out you've slammed the door on her using your soul to fulfil her obsession, she reacts explosively passionately. I know a couple IRL who were happy together until the guy was arrested for and then convicted of committing a really serious crime. It didn't matter what their history was; there was no going back to that for his wife. Whether or not Kas is justified in feeling betrayed by you is irrelevant; she feels that way, she can't handle it, and she can't forgive you, regardless of what she felt for you before (be that love or not).
Kas is such a well-written, complex character, such a brilliant villain for the game. And adding another nuance, that for reasons unknown she might not be following the normal rules for demons, seems a great move. I really hope it isn't a case of 'No she only feels that way if you trigger that one bad end; otherwise she's just a normal demon'.
A person can have conflicting desires and motivations. Kas' desire to use your soul to make herself a child is in conflict with her desire to preserve you as you are, whether she feels love or merely infatuation with you. She's kidding herself when she tells herself taking your soul won't change you and might be a deal-breaker for you.
So yeah, she's in conflict with herself and she's driven by her passions ('cus demon), so when she finds out you've slammed the door on her using your soul to fulfil her obsession, she reacts explosively passionately. I know a couple IRL who were happy together until the guy was arrested for and then convicted of committing a really serious crime. It didn't matter what their history was; there was no going back to that for his wife. Whether or not Kas is justified in feeling betrayed by you is irrelevant; she feels that way, she can't handle it, and she can't forgive you, regardless of what she felt for you before (be that love or not).
Kas is such a well-written, complex character, such a brilliant villain for the game. And adding another nuance, that for reasons unknown she might not be following the normal rules for demons, seems a great move. I really hope it isn't a case of 'No she only feels that way if you trigger that one bad end; otherwise she's just a normal demon'.
There is potential for it, and will be dependent on how Savin wants to take her going forward. But I do agree she's a great character. Only thing I'm saying is until that can be confirmed in the actual progression of the story and not something within a bad ending, I perceive Kas the same as any other demon and refuse to read further into her actions. I think she definitely desires and has affection for the Champion, I just don't think it's love... yet (if it ever will be).
