Pure vs Corrupt Hive

[YEsManKablaam]

Sometimes you make a choice just for the sake of it. The harem cats for example I like how they look I like how they are but I never keep the harem simply cause it doesn't feel right to me doing it both times i've done it (computer reset and had to redo everything) I gave em 1000 bucks and sent em on their way. I do hope they might sometime sneak back into content depending on the scope of this and how far you travel but welp. Just doesn't sit well so even though I lost out on tangible benefits I did it anyways. The way you're looking at the whole thing is very narrow honestly.

The same can possibly hold true for the characters that choose to do whatever. It's part story part game people might lean more heavily into either side after all. Also people might prefer bigger bustier bimbo hornet queen.

 

[Khaaveren]

Okay, so I just started reading through this thread as I haven't gotten to the Hive yet, when I found this:

But in this game there are numerous false choices -- not saving Cait, hornets, not making Arona chieftain, not corrupting the centaur village, etc, etc, etc.

So does this mean we're supposed to corrupt the village?!? Because I've consistently been saving it. What do I miss out on content-wise for saving it?

 

[Savin]

does this mean we're supposed to corrupt the village?!?

No.

 

[Sandeklaus]

So does this mean we're supposed to corrupt the village?!? Because I've consistently been saving it. What do I miss out on content-wise for saving it?

Other way around. Corrupting the village just leaves you with a largely empty "dungeon" space. You can now drag the Behemoth back to the Corrupt Garden, but I can't remember if that's "corrupt" exclusive. At the moment, it really might as well just cause the Centaur Village to vanish and move the two relevant NPCs (Bondagetaur and Behemoth) to the Corrupt Garden automatically.

As far as "false choices" go, I don't think anyone can expect CoC to indulge in spectacular, sprawling branches for the sake of PC choices... but as @The Observer's noted, it could do a lot better at disguising/avoiding the lack of branches. Trials in Tainted Space is generally much better at this, in my view, and that's probably because the stakes are usually more personal. It's a glorified treasure hunt, not a cosmic battle of good and evil, and you're not (usually) deciding the fate of whole planets (or equivalent play-spaces). You just get to meddle in how different NPCs turn out, shake out some different loot, get some shifted dialogue, and that still feels like a suitable level of agency. In CoC2, the basic premise is that Demons Are Fucking Places Up and you need to fix them, which is a great, reusable hook for different areas, but also implies a serious branch in how those areas emerge in the aftermath. Do you Corrupt the Hive, or Purify it? Do you Corrupt the Centaur Village, or Liberate it? These choices demand major, setting-changing differences in resolution, or they fall flat. And since major, setting-changing differences require a lot of work just to create two mutually exclusive experiences... they just fall flat.

Even within CoC2, we can find examples of handling this better. Compare the Hive to the Winter City. Ostensibly, the stakes in these two areas are exactly the same; Kassyra has corrupted the queen of a local region, along with a few suitably sexy midboss NPCs, and it's up to us (accompanied by the one remaining pure survivor) to delve into their fortified city and purify them... or fuck them silly. In practice, the options we're given in each mean that the stakes for our personal decisions are far higher in the Hive.

But because of the lower stakes surrounding our decisions in Winter City, those decisions can be fleshed out more and ultimately feel more real. Publicly holding hands with the demon queen affects our relationship and dialogue with Cait, while sparing Jael'yn gives us a corrupt NPC to have fun with at our base, and more corrupt dialogue with party members and NPCs. That's enough; that's all we really need for the divergence to feel good. Hive's higher stakes imply or state much bigger changes, which can't really come to fruition... so it feels less real. Feels more like a fake-out.

 

[Savin]

It's a glorified treasure hunt, not a cosmic battle of good and evil, and you're not (usually) deciding the fate of whole planets (or equivalent play-spaces)

You can literally blow up half the main story planets and kill or cause to be killed more people than exist in Savarra several times over.

 

[Sandeklaus]

You can literally blow up half the main story planets and kill or cause to be killed more people than exist in Savarra several times over.

Hence "usually", yes.

More to the point, of the two blow-uppable planets I'm aware of (Tarkus and Myrellion), you're not there to blow them up, and doing so is framed as a failure state rather than a character-driven decision. You don't go to Myrellion on the premise that YOU WILL CHOOSE IF MYRELLION LIVES OR DIES, COMMANDER SHEP- I MEAN CAPTAIN STEELE, and actually blowing it up requires a relatively specific series of decisions taking place in an optional sidequest. It's a borderline Easter egg.

Additionally, blowing up Myrellion works as advertised; the planet's gone, congratulations. You got exactly what you asked for and what was advertised. No-one's going to (or should, anyway) complain that doing so didn't unlock a secret, fourth color of ant born from the irradiated husk of Myrellion, with its own NPCs and missions and dialogue. (this is also my attitude toward, say, betraying Arona; you get exactly what any reasonable person would expect to get, and what you're literally told you'll get, and you get it by directly violating the core premise of the quest; it's hardly a let-down unless your mind works in very strange ways, and more surprising that the option exists at all).

A better comparison would be the political situation on Myrellion. This is at the core of the area's missions and atmosphere, the heart of its elevator pitch, and while Steele can influence the struggle between Reds and Golds in all sorts of ways, these are largely reflected in the player's own experiences and the PC's relationship with different NPCs, not in concrete changes to the actual setting. I kind of doubt that Steele is ever going to have the ability to decisively settle the Red-Gold struggle one way or another, because that'd require a staggering amount of work relative to the satisfaction it'd offer, but the player can still feel involved and feel like they're picking a side (or not) by helping out and cosying up to NPCs of either faction.

This is a much healthier approach than, for example, offering Steele the ability to dunk the gathered Gold Queens in a convenient vat of Red Venom, only for this to have no impact on the setting at large (or cause every Gold NPC to vanish as Gildenmere turns into a ghost town, etc).

 

[sumgai]

You can literally blow up half the main story planets and kill or cause to be killed more people than exist in Savarra several times over.

Those two options are a bit like Mike Nelson, Destroyer of Worlds. In that a person could trigger them without realizing it. Well, there's not really an excuse for Tarkus...

Anyway, I think even my Ebil White Mage will likely stick with purifying the hive. Tho I will try out dunking Liaden and Azzy into the vat of tainted honey at least once....

 

[Paradox01]

.. Mike Nelson, Destroyer of Worlds.

There's a reason you're one of my favorite people on the forum.

 

[Yamioni]

Interestingly, my feelings ran in the opposite direction when I found Bimbo Azz.

I wasn't especially surprised that the Corrupt Hive was a bit barren, given how relatively new that content area is. Azzyran being unavailable as a companion if corrupted also made total sense, not for reasons of in-setting practicality (we can manage just fine as a Bimbo, after all), but because I appreciated just how much work a whole new set of dialogue and abilities would be for a Bimbo Azzyran. I can't ask for that if I'm not willing to write it myself. Every fork doubles workload.

And then I found out you could have a Bimbo Azzyran regardless, and the latter objection just... fell a bit flat. The current Bimbo Azzyran feels like something that would normally be a consolation option added for "pure" players who wanted a Bimbo-ified hornetgirl on their team, but didn't want to actually corrupt the hive or inflict permanent non-con braindrain on a friendly NPC. Safe, sane, and consensual bimbo-ing, as a back-up! Instead, it's just... a cherry on top for players who chose not to bimbo her. Turns out that adventuring with a bimbo hornetgirl is Fine, Actually, but if you liked that idea from the start it's blocked off from you?

In essence, players are presented with two options: Bimbo Azzyran, or Do Not Bimbo Azzyran. Players who pick Bimbo Azzyran get nothing. Players who pick Do Not Bimbo Azzyran get... Non-Bimbo'd Azzyran and Bimbo'd Azzyran? (Gee, Champ, how come your queen lets you have two Azzyrans?) It feels like a very strange choice for how to branch things, if you see what I mean?

I have to agree. I started a "corrupted" run, and subsequently wasted five hours of my life, under the incorrect assumption that corrupting the hive would give you access to Bimbo Azzyran without needing to create the necklace (she's already a bimbo, so, why would you?)
Only having access to Azzyran as a companion (bimbo or not) if you purify the hive just doesn't make sense.
I can't imagine implementing this would take much effort. If the hive is corrupted, lock Azzyran in her bimbo state, and add a conversation option with the Queen to let her be a companion.
Please?

 

[SomeNobody]

Corruption players must be punished and degraded at all times, its no better than they deserve.

 

[Tide Hunter]

Corruption players must be punished and degraded at all times, its no better than they deserve.

I'm fairly certain you're joking, but still, no.

 

[Malpha]

I have to agree. I started a "corrupted" run, and subsequently wasted five hours of my life, under the incorrect assumption that corrupting the hive would give you access to Bimbo Azzyran without needing to create the necklace (she's already a bimbo, so, why would you?)
Only having access to Azzyran as a companion (bimbo or not) if you purify the hive just doesn't make sense.
I can't imagine implementing this would take much effort. If the hive is corrupted, lock Azzyran in her bimbo state, and add a conversation option with the Queen to let her be a companion.
Please?

She's too bimbo braindead to be a companion compared to the much milder alternative. Also her writer doesn't want to support corrupt hive. Honestly they don't even need to, either, because all you did was keep everything the same and remove the only way of cleansing it.

 

[Savin]

I'm fairly certain you're joking, but still, no.

That's just his fetish, don't judge

 

[WolframL]

I can't imagine implementing this would take much effort. If the hive is corrupted, lock Azzyran in her bimbo state, and add a conversation option with the Queen to let her be a companion.
Please?

As mentioned, bimbofied Azzy is too fuckdrunk to be of any use in a fight while Honey Maiden Azzy is still mostly in control of herself. SKoW doesn't want to support it long term so you're not getting it.

Also for your consideration, there's more to this than just Azzy. The hive being purified drastically affects how all future content can be written for it; Making a full-on corrupted hive route with content to match would double SKoW's workload.

 

[Celine]

Well, I am a bit bummed that I can't take Corrupt Azzy with me and have to actually purify the hive to get a bimbug companion. Also mildly confused because the hive's corruption is bimbofication so bimbo Azzy = Corrupted Azzy, but you have to purify the hive to have Bimbo Azzy follow you which seems to run completely counter to the whole concept and just leaves me scratching my head going "huh? How is this supposed to make any sense?" I suppose one of these days I may decide to do the purify route just to satisfy that curiosity, but seeing as my champs tend to sit at 100 corruption with a crush on Mama Kass it just feels so far out of character...

Whatever the case, I think I'd still be plenty happy with seeing the Corrupted Hive's version of Azzy with a few scenes at the Wayfort of Debauchery, maybe hanging out with the Sex Flowers for some pollen if you didn't kill them. Wouldn't even need to change the existing Corrupted Hive scene, just assume she flies back and forth as needed. It feels like the wayfort is turning into something of a Corruption Route Trophy hall so having a Rep from the hive just feels right since it's the only one missing currently (centaur behemoth, flowers, corrupted elf guard, but no whornets).

 

[Gammerick]

I have to agree. I started a "corrupted" run, and subsequently wasted five hours of my life, under the incorrect assumption that corrupting the hive would give you access to Bimbo Azzyran without needing to create the necklace (she's already a bimbo, so, why would you?)
Only having access to Azzyran as a companion (bimbo or not) if you purify the hive just doesn't make sense.
I can't imagine implementing this would take much effort. If the hive is corrupted, lock Azzyran in her bimbo state, and add a conversation option with the Queen to let her be a companion.
Please?

I think Patreon has banned non-con mind control/corruption. Don't quote me though.

 

[QTPie]

I think Patreon has banned non-con mind control/corruption. Don't quote me though.

What the fuck haven’t they banned

 

[nostalgicwalker]

The only two changes I really desire would be different dialogue for corrupting the hive if your character is already a bimbo, and as someone has expressed earlier in the thread, having bimbo azzy if you corrupt the hive. It's not really related to the quest, but I think the hornet ring also slowly changing the character into a vasparan would be pretty cool.

 

[WolframL]

As has already been pointed out (and reiterated by Savin in this very thread) SKoW isn't interested in supporting Corrupted!Bimbazzy as a long-term thing, so that's never happening. Her character, her call.

And anything forcibly TFing the Champion for playing the game normally is a flat 'no' because the devs don't want to punish players that way. The Ring's existing side-effect is clearly stated (even if many people seem to miss it...) and reversible with an easily crafted item if you don't want breasts in the gigaton range.

 

[Paradox01]

I gave up trying to reduce my Champ's tits after every fight. I'd go from EE to ZZ in about 3 encounters (I crit a lot). It's not like ginormous sweater cows have associated penalties.

 

[nostalgicwalker]

As has already been pointed out (and reiterated by Savin in this very thread) SKoW isn't interested in supporting Corrupted!Bimbazzy as a long-term thing, so that's never happening. Her character, her call.

And anything forcibly TFing the Champion for playing the game normally is a flat 'no' because the devs don't want to punish players that way. The Ring's existing side-effect is clearly stated (even if many people seem to miss it...) and reversible with an easily crafted item if you don't want breasts in the gigaton range.

I know this is the wrong thread for it, but it would be nice if there was some hornet tf, and I just figured the ring would make the most sense since it already has a tf, and they could add a disclaimer. But it is there game, so I don't really have a say.

 

[WolframL]

I know this is the wrong thread for it, but it would be nice if there was some hornet tf

Oh, there will be one so you're in luck there. It's in the review phase, though since there's a rework to the Appearance system also coming down the pipe new TFs seem to be in a holding pattern for the moment.

 

[nostalgicwalker]

Oh, there will be one so you're in luck there. It's in the review phase, though since there's a rework to the Appearance system also coming down the pipe new TFs seem to be in a holding pattern for the moment.

Sweet, thanks for the info.