Pseudo-Simii TF idea

[djunk101]

I had an idea for an item that would give characters the appearance of a Simii, but not their biology since their biology is pretty much anti-TF. Since the Simii were Earth primates that were experimented on and sent through space (sorry if I don't remember the whole story at the moment), I was that the item's in game explanation is that they used human DNA as a base and then adjusted the mod to replicate a Simii like appearance using some primate DNA. If this idea is well received, I'll probably try writing it up myself. What do you all think?

 

[djunk101]

You could just make a monkey-morph mod. That's literally all the simii are.  

Maybe I'll do that and explain it as the item being marketed as a Pseudo-Simii TF. It seems like it would be a good sales pitch in-universe. "Ever wanted to look like a Simii but didn't want any of that unpleasant mod resistant biology? Well then check out [insert product here]! It'll give you exactly what you want without having to pay an arm and a leg to change back!"


I could see the ad being kind of controversial or something, but based on Embry's story it seems that most Simii don't leave their hometowns much, so most of the protesters of it would probably just be intergalactic SJWs. Because I doubt that there aren't any in the far flung future.


...Sorry went off on a tangent. That's how I come up with a lot of my more involved ideas, though.

 

[Ormael]

Question is if some of customer woudn't want also this anti-TF effect too not only looking like apes?


But in terms of TF items such pseudo-Simii Tf would be good to give people chance be ape-like.

 

[djunk101]

Question is if some of customer woudn't want also this anti-TF effect too not only looking like apes?


But in terms of TF items such pseudo-Simii Tf would be good to give people chance be ape-like.

It's mostly because this is a TF based game and I don't think it's a good idea to have an item that locks you out of anything but the strongest TF unless you buy a strong TF that transforms you out of it. Unless it was an item you could only buy if you had used enough of the Simii TF, but unless it only acted as an event and not an inventory item 'cause then the infinite item cheat would ruin it, given that anything that could affect a Simii would be super powerful on anything else...


...Sorry, went off on another tangent. Anyway, I feel like there's probably a mod like that in-universe somewhere, but I don't think it's one the PC should be able to buy in a TF heavy game, so I thought of this as an alternative to look like one but technically not be one.

 

[Ormael]

I think Jim made Simii resistant to justify high cost of helping to Embry. Otherwise...all thos TF effects she wanted would cost maybe 1k max. SO making some TF for poeple that not req. super strong mutagens/tons of nanites to work would be needed down the line of game progress.

 

[Savin]

I think Jim made Simii resistant to justify high cost of helping to Embry. 

Also to justify Embry... at all. Because her predicament makes no sense whatsoever in the TiTSverse without some such contrivance. 

 

[Noob Salad]

To quote "how would a pre-procedure trans even work in TiTS". Paraphrasing here but yeah, that's what Jim said when he first posted about her.

 

[djunk101]

Regardless, it's now part of the lore, so I came up with this as a work around.

 

[djunk101]

Which is the reason I've never gone through Embry. The whole thing lays on the "Trans PSA" angle way too thick for me. Not that it's a bad message, not at all, but it makes it really hard for me to see Embry as an actual character and not just an allegory. She loses a lot of her charm because of the extreme lengths her plot had to go to justify everything about her...

Well, when I first did the Embry plot line I knew very little about trans (admittedly, I still don't know a ton), so for me it was just a fun plot line with an interesting and adorable character. As a subject, I don't really have an opinion on it.

 

[PyrateHyena]

Which is the reason I've never gone through Embry. The whole thing lays on the "Trans PSA" angle way too thick for me. Not that it's a bad message, not at all, but it makes it really hard for me to see Embry as an actual character and not just an allegory. She loses a lot of her charm because of the extreme lengths her plot had to go to justify everything about her...

I can do nothing but agree. Right again, IVIisty, right again. Jim is/was a great writer, but Embry is feeling like more of a theme than an actual character, because the complicated backstory is way more present than her character and that is not how (most) people work. It makes her feel artificial and constructed in a way that felt quite weird to me.


On the actual subject, wynaut? Not really for me and my personal taste, but I guess more variation is always a good thing.

 

[djunk101]

I can do nothing but agree. Right again, IVIisty, right again. Jim is/was a great writer, but Embry is feeling like more of a theme than an actual character, because the complicated backstory is way more present than her character and that is not how (most) people work. It makes her feel artificial and constructed in a way that felt quite weird to me.


On the actual subject, wynaut? Not really for me and my personal taste, but I guess more variation is always a good thing.

Admittedly I have no special interest in it either, I just thought it'd be nice to have the option. Which is my opinion about a lot of stuff in the game, to be honest.

 

[PyrateHyena]

Fair enough! xD   Yes I guess it would be a nice gimmick to have in our tf-toolkit.

 

[Noob Salad]

Which is the reason I've never gone through Embry. The whole thing lays on the "Trans PSA" angle way too thick for me. Not that it's a bad message, not at all, but it makes it really hard for me to see Embry as an actual character and not just an allegory. She loses a lot of her charm because of the extreme lengths her plot had to go to justify everything about her...

Whatcha talkin' bout nigga. The only justification was her race is resistant to mods. Now go back and do all her content so you can get diabetes.

 

[Savin]

The only justification was her race is resistant to mods.

A race Jim invented. Explicitly for the purpose of having a mod resistant character what for to enable this awkward storyline that doesn't fit the setting at all.

 

[Lashcharge]

No, that was one part of it. The simii culture is also inexplicably traditional and gender-rigid, so as to add an element of stock emotional conflict to Embry's arc, and also that Embry was rather poor and unable to achieve her goals without Steele's assistance. Which amounted to little more than throwing money at her until she could afford to be happy.

Well Estrobloom tooltip does establish that such traditional and gender-rigid places do exist in TiTSverse.

Some planets have banned Estrobloom due to the disruption it can introduce to racial gender identities, but in more liberal systems the product flows unrestricted.

It's also possible that places in the rush are extremely liberal when it comes to the use of transformatives.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

I'll say it once again - I can't see how Embry's transition, however contrived and full of unfortunate implications some may think its implementation was, invalidates or eclipses all other aspects of her. FFS, even progressing through it is optional, as is talking about it, IIRC. You can successfully romance the cotton candy monkey wifu without ever touching those parts of her content.


Also, what @Lashcharge said.

 

[Savin]

I'll say it once again - I can't see how Embry's transition, however contrived and full of unfortunate implications some may think its implementation was, invalidates or eclipses all other aspects of her. FFS, even progressing through it is optional, as is talking about it, IIRC. You can successfully romance the cotton candy monkey wifu without ever touching those parts of her content.

Yeah, but then we get to the question of why would I want to. 


Edit: Imagine what Misty said below, but here.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Yeah, but then we get to the question of why would I want to. 

Because sweeping shy country bumpkins off their feet and teaching them about sex is fun? Because Embry might be your type? To bump the WiFi counter? I dunno, mang.

 

[Noob Salad]

Embry is a great character and I'm genuinely surprised Savin and Misty of all people don't like her. Oh well, to each their own.


Jim is still best writer tho.

 

[Kesil]

it's just that I don't really understand why it needed to be in TiTS.

It seems that Jim wanted to help a friend out so bad he felt he had to use a stronger tool than writings of his own. I guess it works as a cautionary tale of sorts about what happens when you try to push your agenda or your OCs in a media you don't own, i.e. creating contrivances out of nowhere.

That, or I am too biased/I share your views. Because what kind of people would fetishize something in a kinky porn game set in the future instead of seeing things the way they are seen in certain early XXIth century societies?

 

[Ormael]

Oh boy Jim no longer with us but not only Bess but even Embry can spark some discussion ^^


Yeah I do find sometuimes weird he made Simii such TF-resistant race. Yes it's true it made up to justyfy like 95 % of her content. Crying out lound now will not chnage it. He did not make her added to game instantly it was time everyone could voiced their thought to him...I could try to ask: where was you all her haters by then? It wasn't as hard to even then notice how weird and akward to the rest of game she was. Complaining now is...slight too late ones.


And for Simii-like TF. Universe is bread place so it can be called that this ape-tf was based not on Simiii that was kind of gene-engenereed race but some other alien race that was mone people. Or well made up TF to give people money features without connecting it t0o been based on Simiii.

 

[Savin]

...I could try to ask: where was you all her haters by then?

Complaining about it in the Skype where Jim hung out. And then advocating we not add Embry when he did it anyway (until the issue was rectified). 

 

[Nonesuch]

I don't think there's anything wrong with playing with the rules of the universe if you're doing it for a decent reason. It seems particularly egregious having a strop about it when the whole thing's nakedly a vector for porn and the loremaster is off in his corner making horse-dicked racoon morphs, extremely reticent about telling anyone anything (except his gains. You can have those in great detail). I don't feel there's much more offensively covenient about the Simii than, oh I don't know, the last six races that were strictly all feminine and massively titted. In each case it is the way it is to allow smut to happen, Embry was very popular with the larger fanbase the way she was designed.


As for why JimT made her the way she is - we all have our reasons for putting effort into this shit. I get that some of you feel that because he was doing it to make a friend feel better about themselves clouded his judgment, and made the character a bit shameless, but ultimately if it results in complete, well written, popular content about a cute trap I could give less of a fuck.

 

[PyrateHyena]

[...] In each case it is the way it is to allow smut to happen, Embry was very popular with the larger fanbase the way she was designed.

Except that this thing discussed here (Simii gender roles and TF-resistance) is NOT here to make smut happen, or more convincing. It is simply there because Jim loved drama. In my view of the world, Embry is not a trap, she is female. Because what makes a trap attractive (to me) is the possibility to use a certain male organ in a certain way, and that is not possible with Embry, so solely regarding the smut she is nothing but a deeply conflicted female. Hope I was able to voice this right and understandable, my views can get complicated...

 

[Nonesuch]

What would happen if a simii took the Treatment? Was that considered at the time? I'm genuinely interested, because having a bunch of bubble concepts in the universe and not considering how they might hypothetically interact is a surefire way for the lore to get sucked up its own ass.

I think NT hit Jim in a few pleasure spots so who knows, maybe he did think about it. Like, Embry takes it out of desparation and just ends up with diahhrea for three days. Probably not though, eh.

Except that this thing discussed here (Simii gender roles and TF-resistance) is NOT here to make smut happen, or more convincing. It is simply there because Jim loved drama.

Smut is enabled by drama. Sometimes people want to fuck in a complete vacuum. Mostly not, however. Mostly they want to have good reasons for fucking. They want background colour, tension, build-ups, context and character development. It's not just a more engaging read, it's also a lot easier to write. Embry's conflict is hence composite with the porn she enables.

 

[PyrateHyena]

@Nonesuch: I can see that, but my guess is that Embry's emotional conflict could have been way lighter without drifting into this weird real-world-issue comparison with literally no impact on the smut side. I was a fan of Embry back when she was written, because I like new stuff and ideas, but in hindsight she feels strange and non-fitting. Not that I do not like her or Jim's writing, but she is troublesome, mainly from a meta perspective as IVI pointed out.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

I knew I can count on you to deliver a more eloquent comeback against the critique of Embry going on in this thread, NS.

Smut is enabled by drama. Sometimes people want to fuck in a complete vacuum. Mostly not, however. Mostly they want to have good reasons for fucking. They want background colour, tension, build-ups, context and character development. It's not just a more engaging read, it's also a lot easier to write. Embry's conflict is hence composite with the porn she enables.

Amen to that. There is also the fact that any and all amount of drama PC gets roped into while exploring the story of our down on her luck transsexual monkey from the boonies is nothing compared to the emotional rollercoaster of following Kaede's misadventures (ones that we as the player can't really help with), or most of Reaha content. To me personally, all of those add to my enjoyment of the game


@Savin this thread seems as good a place as any to ask whether or not writing a Simii NPC will be frowned upon because of your issues with their lore?

 

[Savin]

@Savin this thread seems as good a place as any to ask whether or not writing a Simii NPC will be frowned upon because of your issues with their lore?

No.


I also wouldn't be coding it, so I couldn't care less. I sure won't be writing one, however.

 

[PyrateHyena]

Except that it does not go

against the critique of Embry going on in this thread

at all. The critique voiced here is just that Embry, her backstory and race do not feel like they fit the lore as well as Reaha and Kaede do.

 

[Ormael]

What would happen if a simii took the Treatment? Was that considered at the time? I'm genuinely interested, because having a bunch of bubble concepts in the universe and not considering how they might hypothetically interact is a surefire way for the lore to get sucked up its own ass.

SInce Simii aren't jsut casual race it's 50/50 to what will be outcome. Either it will effect in Treated Simii cuz as it been said NOONE know what exactly is inside Treatment so maybe it's SO STRONG TF stuff that even Simii will be affected or it will make no effect even if Simii will be feed with hose dose of Treatment (ups..horse does...sounds like an intended pun )


Whoever hang out with Jim in past on SKype maybe know answer on this as it is high chance someone in past DO asked Jom about Treatemnt effect on Simii.