Motherfucking CoC Week
- Thread starter Savin
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Honestly it's irritating that CoC will never have any of it's loose ends tied up. Worse yet is that there isn't really a decent supplement for CoC. I've yet to try the mod due to broken laptop but from what I've seen it's pretty low quality. The only alternatives are FoE which miiight be kind of good in a few years? But not CoC, and TiTS, which seems to basically be space CoC minus depth. Maybe it will be good in a few years once it has as much content as CoC, but probably not.
The only alternative to bitching about CoC being dead is suicide tbh.
The only alternative to bitching about CoC being dead is suicide tbh.
Either you live dramatically, breath hyperbole and drink pessimism, or you're serious. In the latter case some reevaluation should be considered; you seem a bit clingy.
CoC was a fun game, but it has been nothing more than baggage to its developers for some time. CoC isn't dead so much as it's a zombie. The final dungeon isn't a tombstone, it's the much needed bullet to the head.
Literally the only metrics by which TiTS does not have as much content as CoC by this point is that there are slightly fewer transformatives and you can't stick nearly as many waifus onto your ship to never speak to or interact with one another ever. By wordcount, fuckable character count, enemy count, and location count it already matches CoC. By number of playable events that progress the main story it already exceeds it.
Either you're spouting hyperbole or maybe you should take a break from playing adult games for a while. Try anything else. Try Minecraft, building model kits, photography, drawing, Mario Maker, programming. There must be something in your life that gives you joy other than a porn game we wrote five years ago.
The metrics by which it is being evaluated is probably the issue here. Like you said, character interactions in CoC are more fleshed out since in TiTS the devs prioritized progress in the main game rather than completing any given character's storyline from start to finish. A lot of the early areas feel incomplete or empty, but unlike CoC there is far more progress you can make in the main story and more hubs to visit. Those hubs just aren't necessarily as fleshed out. So it can feel less complete or enjoyable than CoC, regardless of how complete or deep it actually is.
I did not say that. I said there are fewer characters you can take home with you. The average fuckable TiTS character has more interaction, more scenes, and more non-sex utility than the average fuckable CoC character by far, which more than makes up for not having as many waifus at camp. Especially if you're like me and hate waifus, a hatred I developed because of CoC in fact.
And if the devs had ever cared about completing a character's story from start to finish, then "my waifus of choice don't have all of their plots resolved/xpacks added" wouldn't be the single most common complaint from the diehard CoC-only group. What did happen was that Fen got caught up in adding character after character, leaving a long trail of mostly-complete storylines in his wake, while leaving D3 to languish for years, only starting once all the fire had gone out so that what could have maybe taken him a month or two if his heart was in it will now take years to come.
The donation day model helped make all these problems worse, mind you. New characters moved wallets, story content didn't.
And if the devs had ever cared about completing a character's story from start to finish, then "my waifus of choice don't have all of their plots resolved/xpacks added" wouldn't be the single most common complaint from the diehard CoC-only group. What did happen was that Fen got caught up in adding character after character, leaving a long trail of mostly-complete storylines in his wake, while leaving D3 to languish for years, only starting once all the fire had gone out so that what could have maybe taken him a month or two if his heart was in it will now take years to come.
The donation day model helped make all these problems worse, mind you. New characters moved wallets, story content didn't.
I think we're arguing about different things here. TiTS has a bunch of partially finished things that are intended to be gotten back to once planet 4 is done as well as missing some customization options that CoC has. This makes it feel like its less complete than it actually is, even if what it does have is miles ahead of what was in CoC. Most of CoC's characters had their entire basic plot put in initially and there aren't many glaring holes at first glance. Plus, like you said, the focus for a long time was on more and more new characters and interactions instead of main story. TiTS has focused on main story first and foremost, and there are probably many players that don't care about that part of the game and only want more characters and encounters. So CoC focused on what they want, while TiTS does not.
Another factor that might be at work here is that in CoC most of the game's content was available to you from the word go and didn't require much effort to reach, while TiTS is much more limited in what you can get to without going through the story. This might make CoC feel bigger, while a player going into TiTS might feel much more restricted. It probably doesn't help that arguably the best content in the game right now is the last one you can reach.
Another factor that might be at work here is that in CoC most of the game's content was available to you from the word go and didn't require much effort to reach, while TiTS is much more limited in what you can get to without going through the story. This might make CoC feel bigger, while a player going into TiTS might feel much more restricted. It probably doesn't help that arguably the best content in the game right now is the last one you can reach.
Made an account just to say that I'm very excited that this will finally be finished! I've been waiting to finally paint the walls with Lethice!
TDM,
what the fuck are you talking about?
Nevermind that CoC and TiTs's content progression is vritually identical, being that no, you couldn't just go and get whatever immediately, you did have to become a swole motherfucker to do whatever, grind out whatever and so forth, while TiTs is largely a "keep on tumblin' forward and forward" adventure, TiTs has characters and encounters out the wazoo. This is very much a "I think CoC is better with my rosetinted glasses!!! Marble!!!" argument; yeah, TiTs is focused on adding more stuff to play around with before going back and giving that stuff even more stuff throughout the stuff. No, that in no way means there are less encounters or characters or things to do. You could argue that there's less various one off follower-tier stuff, which is true, but I'd turn that around and say that the game both isn't outright focused on that just yet and it's to avoid orphaned content all together. We've already had plenty of big follower projects get orphan'd before even getting completed this time around.
but uhhh
yeah, tits' characters and design is way better then coc, but sure whatev. You can not like sci-fi, that's fine.
I'm sort of playing devil's advocate, I guess? Basically just spit-balling possible reasons as to why people might get a better impression of CoC over TiTS despite the significantly higher quality that TiTS has. I don't think it is just the setting that's doing it, though that obviously is going to be a factor for many people.
EDIT: Maybe I'm looking too hard into it. I'd guess that the most likely reasons that people will like CoC more than TiTS is because CoC has a quicker character creation and you jump right into the action right away with near full access to the world. The sex scenes are short and to the point. If you're just after something quick and dirty, this would be much more preferable to TiTS's much more detailed opening and character creation, structured story progression, and much longer sex scenes.
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CoC will be finished. All it's getting is couple of boss battles and a legitimate ending. After that, CoC will be done and the mod will probably tide those who want more from it. Time and effort will then be focused on TiTs.
It plays a part, I'm sure, but no, I believe it has a lot to do with the setting, ultimately. Fans of CoC parade it as a Fantasy Adventure despite being a post apocalyptic one, ultimately, which is something I think does a great deal to its popularity. Fantasy is cut and dry! Sword? Heavy armor? Hell yeah you're some strapping knight! A goblin? Yeah you know what a goblin is, let's punch that shit. Lady goblin? Oh, it must be this green hot babe, uh huh.
Etc. The "Words words MUZZLE AH YES *HEAVY BREATHING*" joke-quote applies. You don't have to actually read much. Cow girls? Minotaur? Kitsune? You all know what those are coming in, what they do, etc. You can pick up and go and don't actually have to read the details of the text whatsoever. The nature of the development plays into this, too; it's a sprawling mess of stuff with next to no structure, with the plot being off to the side for the most part. Just press a button, make it happen. Got a lot of bitching and questions about the sand trap, which is a pretty self-explaintory encounter if you read, for example.
But they don't, obv. Now, of course, it's a kind of rubbish one because it still takes a while regardless, but that's neither here nor there.
Flip to TiTs. It's better designed, more content, etc etc. But! It's not fantasy, it doesn't have those fantasy trappings. People murmur for more alien races, more "weird stuff" yet people can't really wrap their brains on what the hell a "Myr" is. The Bust system is actually an amazing tool for reading comprehensions in this regard, actually; "What the fuck am I dealing with?" becomes a glance in the top left. Thumb over to FoE which has some writing issues (and def parser issues) and combat only portraits and things can get a bit confusing again, for instance, while actually escaping the usual fantasy trappings for more "furry" ones, fullstop.
So.
People don't like TiTs cuz they can't read, bam. Microphone drop.
Hahaha. Yeah, makes sense. I hadn't really considered it from the angle of things being familiar or safe. You might get the same sort of issue with non-standard fantasy races or calling them by unusual names. Hell, just asking for more of their favorite lover is basically that same thing. They know what to expect and know what they're going to like.
Well I don't think that's completely true. If you already read a wall of text multiple times, do you want to read it again? Of course not. But the plot in CoC could have been emphasized more. If you have ever played Skyrim, you'd find them to be similar. After completing the shit load of quests on your list, "Oh yeah, gotta save the world." Personally I prefer CoC because you can always find some funky potion on the ground but in TiTS you have to spend all your money on a single biothing. I've always sort of been a medieval guy myself but I don't know. Maybe getting raped by a tentacle monster is better than being raped by a vagina snake.
I do agree with many of your conclusions but you paint them in a shade of heavy personal bias which really detracts from the points you're trying to make.
Fantasy is as cut and dry as any other literary genre, it is as deep as the author makes it. It is easier to picture it's elements because of the amount of exposition it had in the media and culture over the years while sci-fi has it's own "trope" elements but they tend to vary more from author to author or director to director. How is sci-fi really better then fantasy when they are pretty much the same? Instead of magic swords you have electrified blade or light sabers, instead of puppy girls you have aussaurs, instead of magic you have science so advanced it might as well be magic. TiTs *is* better designed, has more content, has a proper pacing and etc. as you mentioned but that does not mean that it as a whole *has* to be better and that whoever does not think so is wrong. People are attracted by different things and taste is , after all, subject. CoC had it's own charm and some of it's flaws was also part of it's strengths.
Whenever you make generalizations and ergo therefores you are packing a whole lot of different people who like different aspects of each game into a single unit. You pretty much called people who like CoC over TiTs simplistic and functional an-alphabets just because some of them skim over text or like a world you consider easy to imagine. CoC and TiTs are completely different experiences from it's very basics: One has a main character with close to zero background and a more open world adventure while the other has a pretty determined background and storytelling. It's Apples and Oranges, pretty much like directly comparing Farcry with The Last of Us.
I really wish people would stop this stupid feud of which one is better and pretty much bashing the other side to smithereens. As my old WoW imp would say... "Can't we all just get along?"
I think that is more how you think about it. Like if you were a hooker giving 50 dollar BJs, you could either be sad because you feel like a whore or feel kinda powerful and respect yourself since you made more in 10 minutes than a lot of people make in 5 hours. If you pride yourself in "someone paid me a considerable amount of money for my to exercise my personal skills" then anything you do for money can make you feel better about yourself.
Well, there goes that excuse. I'd assumed I may have gotten bored of TiTS so easily because it was a lot smaller. I played to the end of it's content a month or two ago and at the end of it was so utterly bored that I went back to CoC, and haven't touched TiTS since.
CoC was pretty cool because it had bizarre fetishes, corruption, and a tainted world where you can (pretty much) get away with anything. So there was incest, rape, all the corruption stuff, etc. I guess TiTS might not be meant to be much like CoC? But it definitely isn't.
TiTS has a ton of problems. Firstly I've noticed most of the content seems to be either extremely vanilla or bizarre made up alien fetish stuff. I mean, I dunno, but CoC seemed to mostly stick to established fetishes. TiTS is like, "Hey... what if we make our own fetishes? Holy shit, man, we'll be like, fetish gods..." And most other guys are pretty generic guys / girls / herms but with an alien gimmick here or there. Then there's the lack of incest / corruption / rape of non-monsters that comes with living in a civilized world. Then there's how most of the fuckable NPCs are just sluts who go 'hey talk to me once or twice and i'll let you stick it in my butt'. Which is fine, I guess, but boring? The lack of gated content is a bit of a bummer, too. In CoC there was a good reason to have multiple playthroughs. You could make a female / herm for Raphael / Minocest / Kid A, a male for Rogar and Bazaar rape or whatever. Then the corruption versus purity thing where you can't have all the followers / all the content if you're trying to go for either. And THEN there's all the rutting content and the bee-morph stuff. With TiTS I see none of this. Though I could be missing something. Also TiTS has an acute case of 'I WILL WRITE THE LONGEST PORN SCENE POSSIBLE'. I mean, there was some shit in CoC that was too short, sure, but who the fuck has time to read a novel's worth of some chick taking the D?
Definitely seems like TiTS tries hard to be more 'accessible' than CoC, though. What with the lack of incest / lack of rape (I mean of non-enemy characters) Everyone being a slut, lack of gated content, and the introduction of non-taboo xenofetishes. That really bothers me.
Like I said, I've played through TiTS and tried to enjoy it? But in the end it couldn't compare at -all-.
TiTS has an acute case of 'I WILL WRITE THE LONGEST PORN SCENE POSSIBLE'. I mean, there was some shit in CoC that was too short, sure, but who the fuck has time to read a novel's worth of some chick taking the D?
Whilst I'm fine with my female Steele not being forced to be pregnant most of the time and losing credits all the time (balance the prices, peeps!), I have to say that TiTS lacks that sense of peril. Even in the deepest of Myrellion, you can quickly make your way out of the wilderness.
Now, I have to be in a very special mood to like incest and rape and I loathe gated content. I'm okay with vanilla scenes and characters, but... which are those alien fetishes you talk about? I can't be bothered to search through three whole pages of smut when I'm getting ahead on the plot and I have no time for lengthy smut (with all due respects to the writers and their dedicated work) and I'd really like to expand my tastes, just like CoC helped me to. But I can see what you mean with the generic characters. I typed about it some time ago. But no slutshaming, please. I mean, it's very normal to find people on a sex-related game who want it now and want it over and over. Speaking of which, I hope we can get an oestrus system soon.
Yeah, one thing I forgot to mention is transformation is off, too. In TiTS you have genemodded people who paid <arm & leg amount of money> to get... exactly what they wanted? CoC was all about corruption and about people being mutated. Most characters had some sob-story about getting TFed or corrupted one way or the other. Which adds to the atmosphere.
By alien fetishes I mean the weird stuff like the caterpillar species (honestly forget most of their details because I pretty much backed the fuck outta there), the nyreans with their weird cum-drinking dicks, and IIRC there was a dick with three urethra somewhere. TiTS seems to try to be less taboo in it's fetishes and make up for it by being 'inventive'.
Wasn't trying to 'slutshame'. There's no problem with easy characters. Some of my favorite characters in CoC are Loppe and that demon girl (Ifris? been a while) but when most of your named characters are ready to bend over on command, it's kind of shit. At least Ifris had a high strength requirement.
By alien fetishes I mean the weird stuff like the caterpillar species (honestly forget most of their details because I pretty much backed the fuck outta there), the nyreans with their weird cum-drinking dicks, and IIRC there was a dick with three urethra somewhere. TiTS seems to try to be less taboo in it's fetishes and make up for it by being 'inventive'.
Wasn't trying to 'slutshame'. There's no problem with easy characters. Some of my favorite characters in CoC are Loppe and that demon girl (Ifris? been a while) but when most of your named characters are ready to bend over on command, it's kind of shit. At least Ifris had a high strength requirement.
Ted more or less nailed it with the familiarity of fantasy thing. More people prefer it over sci-fi, and you only have to say a name for the majority of readers to know what's on the table as well as call up associations no Grogbargian from Planet Zog can hope to compete with, regardless of how exquisitely described they are. That's a large part of it.
I'd also again point to TiTS' interface, large zones all separated from one another, which makes the content attenuated and difficult to get to, relatively speaking. Finally, and on this me and Ted disagree vehemently (mostly because he wants to bum Victor Steele), the central story and theme of CoC is much more compelling than TiTS's.
TiTS is by far the more polished and well-designed game. Convincing people of that is tough though, because of these fairly central issues.
I'd also again point to TiTS' interface, large zones all separated from one another, which makes the content attenuated and difficult to get to, relatively speaking. Finally, and on this me and Ted disagree vehemently (mostly because he wants to bum Victor Steele), the central story and theme of CoC is much more compelling than TiTS's.
TiTS is by far the more polished and well-designed game. Convincing people of that is tough though, because of these fairly central issues.
CoC was mostly just one-off scenes from the Explore option though? Not exactly perilous either. I think the extent of it for me was when I entered the swamps too soon and got an "Oh shit" moment upon attacking a drider(F) to no real effect. But even then MC just brushed herself off and was good to go again. And I think I heard they patched that so you can't access those areas while under-leveled now so that doesn't count for the current game. (Forgot about this, but that sand thing that sucks you in was a little worrisome too)
TiTS had a few moments that had that feeling imo. The first Saendra rescue definitely. Got the message at lv2 on my merc(which apparently wasn't supposed to be a thing), thought I couldn't ignore it, and knew if I failed in that fight she would never see the light of day again. Felt pretty intense, and I barely scraped though. The bomb dungeon on Tarkus felt like that until I realized I had plenty of time if I didn't rest.
Now that I think about it, perhaps the reason CoC had more of that feeling was because almost every area had an encounter that was way above the curve in difficulty. You never knew who you'd run into, but the possible Slime, Sand-guy, and Drider always had me on edge when I explored those areas. TiTS doesn't have this. Encounters are better balanced, but this means nothing really poses a threat.
CoC was rougher overall, which was fun. You'd start out weak as fuck and being unable to beat an imp, but after a few months of cheating the system you'd pretty much be god. It was a very unprofessional game but that made it fun.
If anything it probably should have been harder to add to the 'yo this is a corrupted wasteland and you gon get raped' theme.
You're right. When you get that, at Mhen'ga, upper side=weak enemies and lower side=stronger enemies, you can plan what to do, when you have to press a button and hope for the best in CoC, the appearance of a random stronger enemy can mess up with any strategy you could ever have.
TFing was what brought me here in the first place. With its high prices and relatively lack of dropped items, TiTS isn't too focused on that, so I hope that idea that Couch once talked about a cult which encourages TFing ever comes to happen. Myself, I never liked CoC's sob stories, so I'm more than happy with people actively purchasing to change themselves into what they want to be, just like this player does with savescumming. My method takes some time, their method takes some money [
]Thanks for your reply on alien fetishes. Though I wouldn't call them "alien fetishes" as much as "fetishes you might not see in regular fantasy". I mean, nothing stopped CoC of having a caterpillar-like character.
That's exactly what I was getting at originally too. The whole world is much more open to you from the get go in CoC and you can access a much larger amount of sex scenes with minimal effort. Enemies encountered while exploring, in the forest, desert, mountains, plains, and swamp (if you explore enough) are all open to you from the very beginning. Those in the deep woods, high mountains, or level locked in the lake become available with little effort, just random exploration is often enough. That's far less than what TiTS offers in the first zone. The TF items are also readily available and scattered everywhere, like Kesil pointed out. You're likely to have several uses of incubus draft, succubus milk, canine peppers, equinum, or whisker fruit in the first ten to fifteen minutes of play just from wandering around.
I agree with you on the story. While cliche, saving an apocalyptic world is a much more interesting plot than trying to get your inheritance. That's why I've always thought that it would be best as an act 1 plot, with the main goal of the game coming up later and raising the stakes considerably.