Level 9 goodies

[Savin]

But even if we include those mages can get +50 spellpower and dawnbreak from their clothing, which massively outstrips what martials can get from theirs.

Martial and Magic characters have entirely different mechanisms of scaling: magician characters' base damage is drawn from their powers, and modified heavily by their gear; martial characters' base damage is drawn from their gear and heavily modified by their powers. There's not meant to be parity in stat numbers there.

 

[Lostname475]

That was said in response to the claim that mages didn't have as many equipment options for damage scaling as martials, I wasn't saying there was a problem with it

 

[HedgeWizard]

That was said in response to the claim that mages didn't have as many equipment options for damage scaling as martials, I wasn't saying there was a problem with it

i just find it odd that there is like 5 unique staff in the game(that i know of) 4 of wich you can get really early in game

 

[Lostname475]

Yeah, the mage gear is quite frontloaded, with a few exceptions

 

[HedgeWizard]

Probably you missed the last part of the Perk - "Wardbreaker-add half your willpower to spell pen and your pen can reduce enemies ward below 0 for damage calculation"

I know what the perk does but compared to other classes both of the perks for bm seem underwhelming and boring when you consider that charmer got the same perk (diferent stat but same effect).

I just expected something more unique like the other classes, like lowering cooldown when using different powers, using the same power twice with weaker modifier, or every time you crit gain a buff or an extra attack

 

[Euthanize]

Black Mage is still miles behind thief in terms of spell dps, and unless level 10 spells don't have DoTs on them (which bypass ward completely and which Eye for Weakness doubles) that's going to remain true regardless of gear.

 

[HedgeWizard]

Black Mage is still miles behind thief in terms of spell dps, and unless level 10 spells don't have DoTs on them (which bypass ward completely and which Eye for Weakness doubles) that's going to remain true regardless of gear.

well that is just depressing at this point
Is thief that good?

 

[Euthanize]

well that is just depressing at this point
Is thief that good?

I mean the rest of thief is basically on par with the rest. Thief just happens to have the one specific perk that doubles DoT damage in a game where the most damaging spells have their damage significantly backloaded into DoTs. You could imagine a suite of powers that would make Eye for Weakness not numerically dumpster every alternative, but it would be very different from what's in the game right now.

 

[HedgeWizard]

I didn't know that Eye for Weakness applied to spells
that makes the level 7 and new perk for bm even less appealing

 

[ctenken]

I think the new Black Mage perk is awesome. You can do a lot of damage if you focus on Spell Penetration and get the Distracting perk. Make sure that you have at least 99 more spell penetration than an enemies warding stat and you'll do 100x as much damage. You can use the powers Withering Bolt, Entropic Fortune from Kiyoko's Kitsune-Bi set, and Enamoring from Cait's sun dancer silks set to lower the enemies' warding stat.

More than 10k damage every attack is appealing to me.

 

[HedgeWizard]

I think the new Black Mage perk is awesome. You can do a lot of damage if you focus on Spell Penetration and get the Distracting perk. Make sure that you have at least 99 more spell penetration than an enemies warding stat and you'll do 100x as much damage. You can use the powers Withering Bolt, Entropic Fortune from Kiyoko's Kitsune-Bi set, and Enamoring from Cait's sun dancer silks set to lower the enemies' warding stat.

More than 10k damage every attack is appealing to me.

the hightest spell pen(of the gear i know) is 88 with gear + perk and natural pen so I don't know how you reach 99

using one of the companion debuffs with Withering Bolt can make enemys have 0 ward but I don't know how the damage calculation is for the perk but I doubt it is going to be one to one

even then that is a lot of setup to make the perk shine compared to just using thief doubling the duration of all debuff and gaining two free buff without wasting a turn

 

[Lostname475]

Black Mage is still miles behind thief in terms of spell dps, and unless level 10 spells don't have DoTs on them (which bypass ward completely and which Eye for Weakness doubles) that's going to remain true regardless of gear.

Honestly, most fights don't last long enough for the extra debuff duration to make that much of a difference imo

 

[Euthanize]

Honestly, most fights don't last long enough for the extra debuff duration to make that much of a difference imo

Exactly. Most fights in the game are so trivialized by level 9 PC that the enemies just explode into paste regardless of what you're doing. The few fights that aren't are generally characterized by a boss that gets 3+ actions for every one of yours. This means you get full advantage of your DoTs, which tick on their action, not yours. Likewise, these are the same fights that actually have the potential to punish a strategy that revolves around spending multiple actions setting up with debuffs and non-stance at-wills.

Ironically enough, the best enablers for "charging my laser" nuke strategies are a 6-action Abjure or Unbreakable depending on the fight, of which Black Mage has access to neither.

 

[Papum]

I know what the perk does but compared to other classes both of the perks for bm seem underwhelming and boring when you consider that charmer got the same perk (diferent stat but same effect).

I just expected something more unique like the other classes, like lowering cooldown when using different powers, using the same power twice with weaker modifier, or every time you crit gain a buff or an extra attack

Understandable, i once suggested an thing that would give you the chance on an offensive spell cast the ability to repat the spell but doing an extra half (or less) damage equal to the former spells damage value and type casted and would also re-apply any offensive effect (if damage it would also do half or less) or debuffs (in case they were resisted) for an second time.

It's liek imagening an mage slinging an big fireball and than having time to also do an small firebolt (small version of the before casted spell) to the mix like an combo.

 

[Papum]

... 'message without content yesterday' ...

I went to respond to an post you made yesterday but couldn't write the content due to an problem having arrised that would not allow me to write anything, so it just send you an empty reply. ^^

 

[Lostname475]

I know what the perk does but compared to other classes both of the perks for bm seem underwhelming and boring when you consider that charmer got the same perk (diferent stat but same effect).

I just expected something more unique like the other classes, like lowering cooldown when using different powers, using the same power twice with weaker modifier, or every time you crit gain a buff or an extra attack

This 100% its not mechanically bad at all, its just not very exciting or flashy

 

[ctenken]

the hightest spell pen(of the gear i know) is 88 with gear + perk and natural pen so I don't know how you reach 99

I got to 120 spell penetration using the Cloudforger, Amulet Of Transference, Tome Holster, Geomancer's Bracers, Weed-walkers, Ring Of Pale Flame, and the Ring of Fortune or Guldring. Make sure you max out the strength attribute since that is the base stat used for spell penetration.

using one of the companion debuffs with Withering Bolt can make enemys have 0 ward but I don't know how the damage calculation is for the perk but I doubt it is going to be one to one

The calculation is (100/(100 + (warding - spell penetration)) with it stopping at 1 for the denominator. So if you have 50 spell penetration and the enemy has 0 warding then you do (100/50) or 2x as much damage. You have 90 more then you do (100/10) or 10x damage, and if you have 99 more than them then you do (100/1) or 100x as much damage.

 

[HedgeWizard]

Make sure you max out the strength attribute since that is the base stat used for spell penetration.

Huh..kinda weird that strength increases spell pen

The calculation is (100/(100 + (warding - spell penetration)) with it stopping at 1 for the denominator. So if you have 50 spell penetration and the enemy has 0 warding then you do (100/50) or 2x as much damage. You have 90 more then you do (100/10) or 10x damage, and if you have 99 more than them then you do (100/1) or 100x as much damage.

Gonna be honest I'm kind of skeptical of those numbers mainly because they have been conservative with the modifier of the class perk

Even a x2 modifier would be weird without being an oversight or bug

 

[ctenken]

Huh..kinda weird that strength increases spell pen

The armor penetration, spell penetration, and temptation stats all start with your base strength stat.

Gonna be honest I'm kind of skeptical of those numbers mainly because they have been conservative with the modifier of the class perk

You can double check the game's code if you want. Its the effectiveDamageMultiplier function in the game's CombatHelper object.
Renamed some of the minified variable names.

damage = e.damageMult(damage, e.effectiveDamageMultiplier(a.warding() - spellPenetration, t.hasPerk(PERKS.Wardbreaker)));

effectiveDamageMultiplier = (damageMod, WardBreakerPerk) => {
    if (damageMod <= 0 && !WardBreakerPerk) {
        return 1;
    } else {
        if (damageMod <= -100) {
            damageMod = -99;
        }
        return 100 / (100 + damageMod);
    }
}

 

[Euthanize]

I got to 120 spell penetration using the Cloudforger, Amulet Of Transference, Tome Holster, Geomancer's Bracers, Weed-walkers, Ring Of Pale Flame, and the Ring of Fortune or Guldring. Make sure you max out the strength attribute since that is the base stat used for spell penetration.

The calculation is (100/(100 + (warding - spell penetration)) with it stopping at 1 for the denominator. So if you have 50 spell penetration and the enemy has 0 warding then you do (100/50) or 2x as much damage. You have 90 more then you do (100/10) or 10x damage, and if you have 99 more than them then you do (100/1) or 100x as much damage.

I was dubious since Amulet of Transference costs Kiyoko to have in your possession (so you can't have spell pen from the amulet and Kitsune-Bi Kiyoko at the same time) and Tome Holster isn't obtainable (unless it actually is, in which case please correct me), but the new piece of gear I hadn't considered before is the new prone/stun immunity armor, which enables you to use the Channeler Stance at-will (20 spell pen) without being interrupted. With a juice and Wooden Rod and Blank Scroll in your weapon slots (30 spell pen vs Cloudforger 20) mostly replacing the 13 spell pen missing from the amulet+Tome Holster, you're at 141 spell pen, uninterruptible (unless silenced), and guaranteed to act after Kiyoko's turn 1 Entropic Fortune. Anything with 82 ward or less and no boss-specific one shot protection is deleted on the first turn.



So with respect to both thinking there isn't enough penetration in the game for the new Black Mage perk to catch up to Eye for Weakness and gear not having a substantial role to play in closing the gap, I'm happy to say I was wrong. There will probably still be some fights where high ward/encounter specific damage caps favor Eye for Weakness (Reggie), but after ~3 years in the game mechanical wasteland Black Mage finally has a reason to exist late game.