Kineticist Feedback Thread

UkeCat69

Member
Apr 19, 2020
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Honestly , remove one of active ability tiers and replace them with passive abilities related to energy.
Restore 25% of missing energy at end of combat or restore 10% max energy.
one is for big casting combos with crush+spike and other is for weapon build that maybe uses blind/sunder multiturn abilities.
Or simply change enthropic leech into a passive.
damage,energy regen and freeze chance every turn you casted ability and upgrades with each level.
(i've done 3 full playthroughs at this point and i only use enthropic leech to finish off enemies to recoup some of that energy cost because the damage just doesnt seem to be worth it)
 
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SoAndSo

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Mar 26, 2017
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Leech isn't about the damage, it's about the small sustain/freeze combo setup. It's very powerful, especially as you only need a crushing weapon to activate it and you can get those at all stages of the game.
 
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UkeCat69

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Apr 19, 2020
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Leech isn't about the damage, it's about the small sustain/freeze combo setup. It's very powerful, especially as you only need a crushing weapon to activate it and you can get those at all stages of the game.
Not really
its staves > tweaked jolthammer >saurmonian warhammer and then there is no weapons past uveto that i could find. you can ignore it and get support items like dodge melee and wardens shield but i prefer having backup if i run out of energy since enthropic leech is a waste of a turn(since freezen is not guaranteed so i can just swing my weapon twice)
 

Fenoxo

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If you are Tripped and Lift Off, it doesn't clear Tripped.

Levitate does not incur it's 15 Energy cost.
Levitate replaces Light Jetpack's Lift Off if Steele has at least 15 Energy, but it uses Light Jetpack's message and Status.
All three should be fixed for next patch.
Post Hotfix Reminder: Psychic Slam & Gravity Crush still fail against enemies outside a very specific Height range.


Is a bit strange since it now only appears if you're already Flying. Otherwise, you get the non-flying text, even if you have Wings or the Light Jetpack.
Run away text fixed. Could you clarify what you mean by "fails"? Because I glanced at the code and didn't see anything height related that would make them crash.
 

HK-47

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May 17, 2017
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All three should be fixed for next patch.

Run away text fixed. Could you clarify what you mean by "fails"? Because I glanced at the code and didn't see anything height related that would make them crash.

They don’t cause any crashes from what I’ve seen, but unless they’re used against enemies of a certain height, they don’t do any damage.
 
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Theron

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Nov 8, 2018
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Could you clarify what you mean by "fails"? Because I glanced at the code and didn't see anything height related that would make them crash.
It seems that gravity crush and psychic slam only work on enemies that are between 5'6" and 6'0" tall. From what I can understand, the code tries to get the tallness property of an integer, making the tallness multiplier NaN
And what HK-47 said. You get the attack description, but no numbers or actual damage.
 

Amakawa Yuuto

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Sep 6, 2015
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Could you clarify what you mean by "fails"? Because I glanced at the code and didn't see anything height related that would make them crash.
As HK-47 said: They just… wiff. No damage. It shows the descriptor of the attack, but no actual damage.1692393020577.png
(Alita is my Sigwulfe, included to show that damage numbers are usually shown when there's actual damage done.)

(Edit: Also, the target took a total of 59 damage: 23 from Sigwulfe, 36 from my metal tail, 0 from the Gravity Crush.)
 

Hanzo

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Oct 10, 2015
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If the comments are anything to go by, numbers for the upcoming fix are wrong.

fix.png

So, let's see if a character that is 4'6" takes +60% damage as desired.

4'6" is 54 inches approx.

sizefactor = 1 + (66-54) * 5 = 1+ (12 * 5) = 1+ 60 = 61
Since 61 > 2, sizefactor = 2

So a character who is 4'6" takes double (+100%) damage, not +60%. Well, as it is even a character who is 65 inches would take double damage already.

It should be:

sizefactor = 1 + ((66-target.tallness) * 0.05);

The same thing happens with the 2's in the other lines.
 

XBoxMaster131

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Oct 18, 2016
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If the comments are anything to go by, numbers for the upcoming fix are wrong.

View attachment 31969

So, let's see if a character that is 4'6" takes +60% damage as desired.

4'6" is 54 inches approx.

sizefactor = 1 + (66-54) * 5 = 1+ (12 * 5) = 1+ 60 = 61
Since 61 > 2, sizefactor = 2

So a character who is 4'6" takes double (+100%) damage, not +60%. Well, as it is even a character who is 65 inches would take double damage already.

It should be:

sizefactor = 1 + ((66-target.tallness) * 0.05);

The same thing happens with the 2's in the other lines.
Are you allowed to show this here? I feel like I'm looking at leaked military documents on the war thunder reddit.
 

Theron

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Nov 8, 2018
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Sleet Shaft can be taken unlimited times. It also has the Hammer icon instead of Staff.
 
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Mad Dog

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Jun 1, 2018
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1. It would be nice if the class had a passive 'energy regen' perk. Having to take stim shots every fight is wack.

2. It would be nice if the game supported reclassing natively. Messing with the JSON is a pain.
 
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Osk0

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Sep 14, 2021
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Started a kineticist and am loving it so far. Shattering enemies with my staff feels so good. I’m curious though since I haven’t gotten far at all does kineticist get unique dialogue and interactions like the old classes do? Stuff like smuggler picking locks, tech specialists hacking and talking tech, and mercenary loving tanks.
also if I could make any kind of request for kineticist down the line since I love the idea of kineticist as a space monk with telekinetic warrior seeing some kind of psy attuned fist weapon whether it be gloves, hand wraps, or maybe even some fancy rings instead of staves would be awesome.
 

Darkwarpalg6

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Aug 28, 2015
412
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does kineticist get unique dialogue and interactions like the old classes do? Stuff like smuggler picking locks, tech specialists hacking and talking tech, and mercenary loving tanks.
So far, no. There's not even class text for saving the Overqueen on FIRST-14.
 

Theron

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Nov 8, 2018
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If they don't add some interactions, Kineticist will always feel like an afterthought. But what should the extra interactions be?

FIRST: Press a button/flip a switch on the other side to shut down the Force Field.
 

JakeFromStateFarm

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Jan 15, 2016
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so, started a kineticist runthrough, other than int and will, what stats will i need? im planning on grabbing third eye aim so i can dump the aim stat, but will i still need physique for gravity flux and all the other abilities that stagger, trip, and stun?

edit: also, are disarmed enemies still doing higher damage or has that been fixed? i read the rest of this thread, and either im blind, or it hasnt been mentioned being fixed.
 

Theron

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so, started a kineticist runthrough, other than int and will, what stats will i need? im planning on grabbing third eye aim so i can dump the aim stat, but will i still need physique for gravity flux and all the other abilities that stagger, trip, and stun?
I'm fairly certain that Physique has nothing to do with Stagger/Trip/Stun Kineticist Abilities, just Stagger/Trip/Stun Chance weapon flags.
 

JakeFromStateFarm

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Jan 15, 2016
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I'm fairly certain that Physique has nothing to do with Stagger/Trip/Stun Kineticist Abilities, just Stagger/Trip/Stun Chance weapon flags.
so abilities that proc trip and whatnot are using a different calculator to check for status chance?
 

Theron

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so abilities that proc trip and whatnot are using a different calculator to check for status chance?
Did a quick test. Level 12 Kineticist with 65 Will & 3 Physique reliably Tripped Urbolg with Gravity Flux.
But if you want to use the Hookstaff to Trip, you'll want Physique.
 

JakeFromStateFarm

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Jan 15, 2016
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Did a quick test. Level 12 Kineticist with 65 Will & 3 Physique reliably Tripped Urbolg with Gravity Flux.
But if you want to use the Hookstaff to Trip, you'll want Physique.
thanks
 

Graff

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Sep 13, 2019
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Speed of Thought is definitely bugged in the current public build. It will often give you the text suggesting you escaped a grapple, but you don't actually escape. Maybe the standard physique based escape procs can still work. Otherwise, it's instant Game Over if a kineticist get grappled.
 

Afier

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Sep 4, 2015
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Strange, as I am playing a kinetisist and Speed of Thought proccing always has resulted in escapting a grapple, even at 2 physique.

I just went and double checked, 2 physique, ~8 Int, and I get the proc the same turn the grapple falls off. Of course that doesn't mean we aren't both right, and the game doesn't have (or doesn't reference) any text for failing to escape a grapple with speed of thought.
 
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rainbowsash

New Member
Oct 9, 2023
2
2
Hey! As someone who plays every fantasy RPG as a wizard and has finished Mass Effect with pure biotic Shep, I am delighted to see this archetype here as well. It even motivated my lazy ass to make the effort and take a peek at the source code, as there's little to no information on Wiki yet (maybe I'll fix that). Btw it's real pain in the butt to read compressed javascript code with inconsistent one-letter variables and two-letter functions you have to guess the meaning of each time while having no easy way to search for in a huge script file, do you guys have public github or something maybe? The only one I've managed to find myself is outdated. Anyway, to the feedback. First, some (supposedly) buggy stuff

1. High level abilities (seemingly from level 9 and above) don't proc Psytuned Vitality. They simply miss the appropriate line in their implementation. As the description mentions no such thing, i'm assuming someone simply forgot :)
2. Entropy Waves, Debris Field, Concussive Augmentation and Telekinetic Warrior scale off willpower instead of psiWillpower. With Telekinetic Warrior it's sorta tricky. Its damage is implemented twice - once in RangedAttack() (or MeleeAttack()) where the formula is wrong, and once in damage(), where the formula is correct, but by the time this function is called the weapon is already replaced and its className is "PlaceholderRanged", not "Rock". As a result this clause can only be reached if you're disarmed, which means the only place where it works as intended is New Texas... which is exactly where I was testing it at first :D Almost overlooked this one. Maybe I overlooked some other ability as well, but not likely.
3. Steel Will simply adds 5 to willpowerRaw upon acquisition. As a result, you can't reach 65 through level-ups alone and have to train or wear something with resolve. Is this intended? Shouldn't it work the same way as Iron Will, as the name suggests?
4. From psiAttack():

["Rage Aim", "Calm Aim"].some((function(t) {
return e.hasPerk(t)
})) && this.HP() < this.HPMax() / 2 && (t += 1)

Which means that for kineticist abilities, "Calm Aim" doesn't work as its description suggests, and works exactly as "Rage Aim" does instead. The way it's written leaves me with impression that it is intentional that these two work identically. And I can't imagine why is that.

5. Third Eye Aim doesn't work in ship battles. Sad. It probably should. By the way, this repetition of stat substitution logic everywhere they're used is messy and bug-prone. Wouldn't it be worth it to have something like this?

function psiAim() {
return this.hasPerk("Bodily Psi Aim") ? this.physique() : this.hasPerk("Dexterous Psi Aim") ? this.aim() : this.intelligence()
}

function effectiveAim() {
return this.hasPerk("Third Eye Aim") ? this.psiAim() : this.aim()
}

function effectivePhysique() {
return this.hasPerk("Third Eye Aim") ? this.psiAim() : this.physique()
}

Among other things, it would make adding new stat substitutions for basic attacks in the future much easier.

Now for the balance. I would like to see some love for sustained options so that they aren't this inferior to those giving you immediate effect. Namely, i'm talking about Psionic Shielding and Vitality Siphon. The latter is in particularly sorry state as far as energy restoration goes. +15 net energy (+22.5 with Psi Noise Generator) over 4 turns is beyond pathetic, you get more just from spamming Entropic Leech. In theory it can give you more energy than Psychogenic Vim, but for that the battle needs to last for 40 fkin turns (34 with Psi Noise Generator), which is absolutely unreasonable as there are no fights that last that long. Not to mention that a quarter of these turns must be spent using this ability. It badly needs some kind of buff. Options that come to mind include:
1. Making it not waste a turn
2. Making energy restoration part of the perk passive
2a. Making the perk give passive buff to Entropic Leech (a favorite of mine, they are even thematically related)
2b (UPD). Restoring some energy whenever you shatter Deep Freeze.
3. Extending duration
4. Making energy restoration scale off int/will/max energy/damage dealt/whatever
5. Some combination of these

As for Psionic Shielding, I propose that instead of just giving plain shield regen, it should have more global effect, completely rerouting all kineticist abilities affecting HP to affect shields instead. Specifically, if Psionic Shielding is taken
1. Psychic Armor gives shieldDefense instead of defense
2. Unnatural Reserves restores shields
3. As for Psychogenic Vim/Vitality Siphon, i believe they better be split 50/50, as having no HP sustain at all kinda sucks. Or maybe not. Or maybe it SHOULD suck to take HP damage if you're focused on shields. Im unsure here.
4. Telekinetic Warrior creates its own shield if none is equipped. What kind of psychic you are if you need shield generator other than your own mind? It doesn't have to be as strong as Urbolg's, but it should regenerate much faster than regular shields (or get bonus to shield restoration from all kineticist perks) because it's perfectly attuned to you. Max shield bonuses from armor and stuff are half as effective on it for the same reason.
5. Third Eye Aim gives some int-scaling resistance bonuses to any shield equipped, as your precognition allows you to know in advance what will hit you and how and counter it.
6. Maybe further reduce max HP by 20-30% should all the stuff above prove to be too strong

I can even do the coding if you explain to me in which form i need to submit it.

Also, i think Telekinetic Warrior's int-scaling attack bonus should be replaced with crit bonus instead for better synergy with Deep Impact.
 
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Isharon

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2019
48
11
43
I think if you have wings, you should be able to toggle if you want to levitate or fly. Energy's energy right?
 

Isharon

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2019
48
11
43
Hey! As someone who plays every fantasy RPG as a wizard and has finished Mass Effect with pure biotic Shep, I am delighted to see this archetype here as well. It even motivated my lazy ass to make the effort and take a peek at the source code, as there's little to no information on Wiki yet (maybe I'll fix that). Btw it's real pain in the butt to read compressed javascript code with inconsistent one-letter variables and two-letter functions you have to guess the meaning of each time while having no easy way to search for in a huge script file, do you guys have public github or something maybe? The only one I've managed to find myself is outdated. Anyway, to the feedback. First, some (supposedly) buggy stuff

1. High level abilities (seemingly from level 9 and above) don't proc Psytuned Vitality. They simply miss the appropriate line in their implementation. As the description mentions no such thing, i'm assuming someone simply forgot :)
2. Entropy Waves, Debris Field, Concussive Augmentation and Telekinetic Warrior scale off willpower instead of psiWillpower. With Telekinetic Warrior it's sorta tricky. Its damage is implemented twice - once in RangedAttack() (or MeleeAttack()) where the formula is wrong, and once in damage(), where the formula is correct, but by the time this function is called the weapon is already replaced and its className is "PlaceholderRanged", not "Rock". As a result this clause can only be reached if you're disarmed, which means the only place where it works as intended is New Texas... which is exactly where I was testing it at first :D Almost overlooked this one. Maybe I overlooked some other ability as well, but not likely.
3. Steel Will simply adds 5 to willpowerRaw upon acquisition. As a result, you can't reach 65 through level-ups alone and have to train or wear something with resolve. Is this intended? Shouldn't it work the same way as Iron Will, as the name suggests?
4. From psiAttack():



Which means that for kineticist abilities, "Calm Aim" doesn't work as its description suggests, and works exactly as "Rage Aim" does instead. The way it's written leaves me with impression that it is intentional that these two work identically. And I can't imagine why is that.

5. Third Eye Aim doesn't work in ship battles. Sad. It probably should. By the way, this repetition of stat substitution logic everywhere they're used is messy and bug-prone. Wouldn't it be worth it to have something like this?



Among other things, it would make adding new stat substitutions for basic attacks in the future much easier.

Now for the balance. I would like to see some love for sustained options so that they aren't this inferior to those giving you immediate effect. Namely, i'm talking about Psionic Shielding and Vitality Siphon. The latter is in particularly sorry state as far as energy restoration goes. +15 net energy (+22.5 with Psi Noise Generator) over 4 turns is beyond pathetic, you get more just from spamming Entropic Leech. In theory it can give you more energy than Psychogenic Vim, but for that the battle needs to last for 40 fkin turns (34 with Psi Noise Generator), which is absolutely unreasonable as there are no fights that last that long. Not to mention that a quarter of these turns must be spent using this ability. It badly needs some kind of buff. Options that come to mind include:
1. Making it not waste a turn
2. Making energy restoration part of the perk passive
2a. Making the perk give passive buff to Entropic Leech (a favorite of mine, they are even thematically related)
2b (UPD). Restoring some energy whenever you shatter Deep Freeze.
3. Extending duration
4. Making energy restoration scale off int/will/max energy/damage dealt/whatever
5. Some combination of these

As for Psionic Shielding, I propose that instead of just giving plain shield regen, it should have more global effect, completely rerouting all kineticist abilities affecting HP to affect shields instead. Specifically, if Psionic Shielding is taken
1. Psychic Armor gives shieldDefense instead of defense
2. Unnatural Reserves restores shields
3. As for Psychogenic Vim/Vitality Siphon, i believe they better be split 50/50, as having no HP sustain at all kinda sucks. Or maybe not. Or maybe it SHOULD suck to take HP damage if you're focused on shields. Im unsure here.
4. Telekinetic Warrior creates its own shield if none is equipped. What kind of psychic you are if you need shield generator other than your own mind? It doesn't have to be as strong as Urbolg's, but it should regenerate much faster than regular shields (or get bonus to shield restoration from all kineticist perks) because it's perfectly attuned to you. Max shield bonuses from armor and stuff are half as effective on it for the same reason.
5. Third Eye Aim gives some int-scaling resistance bonuses to any shield equipped, as your precognition allows you to know in advance what will hit you and how and counter it.
6. Maybe further reduce max HP by 20-30% should all the stuff above prove to be too strong

I can even do the coding if you explain to me in which form i need to submit it.

Also, i think Telekinetic Warrior's int-scaling attack bonus should be replaced with crit bonus instead for better synergy with Deep Impact.
I agree with everything
 

Isharon

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2019
48
11
43
Strange, as I am playing a kinetisist and Speed of Thought proccing always has resulted in escapting a grapple, even at 2 physique.

I just went and double checked, 2 physique, ~8 Int, and I get the proc the same turn the grapple falls off. Of course that doesn't mean we aren't both right, and the game doesn't have (or doesn't reference) any text for failing to escape a grapple with speed of thought.
Yeah, it needs a fail escape message. With high int I get out reliably, with low I dont ever get out
 

DaddyLuci

Member
Dec 8, 2021
10
3
Speed of Thought is definitely bugged in the current public build. It will often give you the text suggesting you escaped a grapple, but you don't actually escape. Maybe the standard physique based escape procs can still work. Otherwise, it's instant Game Over if a kineticist get grappled.
I'm definitely still having this issue in my game. Impossible to escape the Vanae grapple at level 4 and 5 for me. It will say that I succeeded but still keep me in the grapple, and then very rarely it will actually tell me I failed the grapple (I assume that's just a low roll). This is with base physique and maxed intelligence for those levels, btw
 
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