Kineticist Feedback Thread

[rainbowsash]

I'm definitely still having this issue in my game. Impossible to escape the Vanae grapple at level 4 and 5 for me. It will say that I succeeded but still keep me in the grapple, and then very rarely it will actually tell me I failed the grapple (I assume that's just a low roll). This is with base physique and maxed intelligence for those levels, btw

Did that with physique 60 just to make sure, and got the same effect. This is not a speed of thought thing, this is a vanae thing. Vanae (both kinds of them) make an attempt to grapple you every turn as long as you are stunned or tripped. This is not much of a problem when it comes to stun as it wears off naturally, but tripped status has no set duration, you'll remain tripped until you stand up. See where this is going? It doesn't just SAY you succeed, you actually succeed at removing grapple, but you still remain tripped, so before you have any chance to do anything about it the vanae tries to grapple you again, and succeeds, because her chance to succeed at it is equal to her chance to hit you with a melee attack, which is 100% because again, you're tripped. Checkmate. The moral of this story - if a vanae trips you, get up IMMEDIATELY, or you'll get grapple-locked for eternity unless you have both super high reflexes and evasion. Lvl 12 Smuggler would probably have the chance to recover, but lvl 5 Kineticist's only hope is Mind Trick which luckily clears Tripped as well. I'm not sure if all this stuff is intended, but this is definitely not a technical bug.

 

[Isharon]

Levitate/gain air also clears tripped and makes you immune to it, so you can use that too before you get tripgrabbed

 

[LeoTheLion]

I really like the new class

 

[quara8]

I've been playing as Kineticist for a while, and I really like the class so far (even though I haven't reached high levels yet). I keep wondering though, how being a kineticists is a career? Mercs can hire themselves as bodyguards or soldiers; smugglers can transport goods for money (legally or not); and there are always jobs in the tech sector; but what can kineticists do to earn a living - push boxes in a warehouse, working for Space-Amazon?
Joking aside, the only idea I had where I think a kineticist would excel at would be assassinations - a rather unique choice for a future CEO of a megacorp


on another note:

does kineticist get unique dialogue and interactions like the old classes do? Stuff like smuggler picking locks, tech specialists hacking and talking tech, and mercenary loving tanks.

So far, no. There's not even class text for saving the Overqueen on FIRST-14.

If they don't add some interactions, Kineticist will always feel like an afterthought. But what should the extra interactions be?

FIRST: Press a button/flip a switch on the other side to shut down the Force Field.

A quick fix to solve this (at least until appropriate content gets written) could be to enable other classes' interactions for kineticists, IF the relevant stat is high enough. So for example if INT is at least (let's say) 95%, kineticists is able to access Tech Specialist content; same with PHY for Merc content and REF for Smuggler content.
Now I don't know if every interaction would be appropriate without some (minor) rewriting, but at least some should be usable without any changes - for example rescuing Kiro by repairing the broken machine (which at the moment only a Tech Specialist can do).

 

[Isharon]

but what can kineticists do to earn a living

Telekinetic blowjobs! And stuff.

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

I mean, given their combat skills, they can take pretty much the same type of jobs mercenaries can. They're in no way limited to assassinations.

 

[HalfFilledBooks]

Some of the kineticist's specials just aren't very good for the action economy. For example take reality schism, it takes 1 turn to deal 20% extra damage for the rest of the combat, this means you have to be doing 5 turns worth of damage to make up for the 1 turn you spent to use that ability, which means 5 turns later, 6 turns total, you break even action economy-wise, 11 turns to have done the equivalent of using the ability for an extra time. This isn't even taking account the other utility abilities you might want to use instead of damage, or if you get stunned/grappled, or if you miss, it just takes too long to get a pay off. Either increase the percentage buff, or make it cheaper action economy-wise while also increasing cooldowns and energy costs to keep it balanced. This also goes for vortex brand.

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

Yeah, the old problem of Pokémon buff moves - they're only really useful in relatively even battles, so they don't get used outside PvP.
And there, one "Attack up" is +50% damage, not just 20%.

 

[HalfFilledBooks]

Some of the kineticist's specials just aren't very good for the action economy. For example take reality schism, it takes 1 turn to deal 20% extra damage for the rest of the combat, this means you have to be doing 5 turns worth of damage to make up for the 1 turn you spent to use that ability, which means 5 turns later, 6 turns total, you break even action economy-wise, 11 turns to have done the equivalent of using the ability for an extra time. This isn't even taking account the other utility abilities you might want to use instead of damage, or if you get stunned/grappled, or if you miss, it just takes too long to get a pay off. Either increase the percentage buff, or make it cheaper action economy-wise while also increasing cooldowns and energy costs to keep it balanced. This also goes for vortex brand.

Another idea i had is to replace the effects of haste and reality schism entirely to: "doubles the damage of the next attack (basic attack or activated ability depending on side)." This could have the effect of cleaning up the kineticist's action economy. Instead of having to set up the psionic crits one after the other, or setting up deep freeze then crushing attack again and again, you can just set it up once for the amount of damage of having to set it up twice. Note, to balance this you might have to consider giving reality schism/new haste a decently long cooldown, but for the most part the idea itself should be quite balanced. Not counting cooldowns (which you should, I'm just trying to make a point) this is only improving action economy by 1 turn.

Normal sequence: (gravity flux) -> (geothermal spike) -> (gravity flux) -> (geothermal spike)
4 turns

New sequence: (gravity flux) -> (reality schism) -> (geothermal spike)
3 turns

It also sort of simulates the power spike the other classes get when they double their damage with the double attack, just remember to include the crit and deep freeze bonus when doubling damage, or what's the point of setting up an especially big, satisfying hit.

 

[Hanzo]

Problem is, you're using common sense. +20% damage increase doesn't increase final damage by 20%.

 

[Isharon]

Depending on your damage, You might as well not have to use multiple attacks either.

 

[2boo4berry]

Is the kineticist still incompatible with bimbo/brute content? I was going to try and make it work as a Treated; I know there are perks that let you undo the intelligence drain if you fulfill a condition (usually cum related), maybe it could do the same for willpower?

 

[UpsideDownDog]

Is the kineticist still incompatible with bimbo/brute content? I was going to try and make it work as a Treated; I know there are perks that let you undo the intelligence drain if you fulfill a condition (usually cum related), maybe it could do the same for willpower?

Huh? I've been playing as a kineticist with the bimbo hat for months and it works just fine. How would it be incompatible?

 

[TheShepard256]

Is the kineticist still incompatible with bimbo/brute content? I was going to try and make it work as a Treated; I know there are perks that let you undo the intelligence drain if you fulfill a condition (usually cum related), maybe it could do the same for willpower?

No; there are some Kineticist-exclusive perks you can get that'll let you use other stats in place of Intelligence or Willpower. Also, being a bimbo/brute doesn't necessarily mean having low Intelligence and/or Willpower.

 

[LucianCanad]

My impressions so far of the Kineticist is that it tapers off something fierce by the late game. The only reliable source of damage appears to be Deep Freeze + Sleet Shaft/Mind Crush. Gravity Flux is good situationally to ground flying enemies, but the damage is so low it's better to be levitating and DBZ fight their asses. It's easy to chain abilities together, but you can quickly find yourself spending all your energy in a random encounter (and, sometimes, still losing. Looking at you, Enhanced Rusher.)

The Perks side of the Kineticist tree feels pretty OK for an Energy-dependent character, but some feel redundant (Speed of Thought and Mind Trick) or underpowered (Steel Will when the only ability that explicitly scales off Will is Force Darts. Which miss most of the time even with max INT).

What I honestly missed the most was a Tease damage side to Kineticist's abilities, since "psionic teasing" is well-established in the game (Half-Slyveren MC when?)

My suggestions would include:

- Split Kineticist into two build lines: Elemental and Tease (like other classes have Melee or Ranged, Drone or Shield)

- Add more effects that scale with INT or WIL (Like Tease damage, Levitate evasion, Status effect duration) Edit: In fact, how about scrapping INT as a required stat for Kineticists altogether? Have our stats be PHYS/AIM, REF and WIL, like the other classes.

- Crank up max energy and/or add a lategame perk that slashes energy costs in, like, half and/or add a passive way to recover energy (Leech sexual energy all succubus-like?). Anything to let us use abilities more liberally and break out of the Entropic Leech + Crushing damage loop.

- Since Lust weapons are rare, maybe add an ability that links their damage to WIL?

- Have a bonus perk for practicing your mind powers with Frosty (I know that's more content creation and less mechanics balancing, but I must have MOAR Frostwyrm)

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

What I honestly missed the most was a Tease damage side to Kineticist's abilities, since "psionic teasing" is well-established in the game (Half-Slyveren MC when?)

I know that part of it is that the PC can't get "proper" mind control/mind reading, but I agree that the grapple escape skill at least implies that it should be possible to project a simple, general HORNY into the enemy's mind.
And even if that's not an option, maybe a kineticist could just make their genitals vibrate from a distance.

(/Edit: Side note, my personal thought was that this should have been a side effect of the "bimbo kineticist path" - replacing regular kineticist damage with lust damage.)

 

[Wafflesnake]

kineticist was designed specifically to not be tease/lust related. see the blog post where it was discussed https://www.fenoxo.com/trials-in-rp-space/

how about scrapping INT as a required stat for Kineticists altogether? Have our stats be PHYS/AIM, REF and WIL, like the other classes.

kineticist already gains perks that replace intelligence scaling with physique or aim, bodily psi aim and dexterous psi aim respectively. they are gained during a dream sequence if int is below 50% and either physique or aim is high

Have a bonus perk for practicing your mind powers with Frosty

B, frosty's author has already stated that the PC and Frosty do not communicate with each other psionically

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

kineticist was designed specifically to not be tease/lust related. see the blog post where it was discussed https://www.fenoxo.com/trials-in-rp-space/

I mean…

Focusing on telekinesis was a necessary choice to maintain cohesion of the game world and the existing events and storylines – a Steele that can reach into other’s minds at will and exert his own mental pressure on other NPCs requires a game bespoke tailored to that sort of experience – something we aren’t doing.

That looks more like "We can't have Steele inflict proper mind control" to me. No Jedi Mind Trick and stuff, because that's too complicated to implement as a class-locked side feature.

A vague, general HORNY blast, on the other hand, wouldn't really be that different from having a Slut Ray gun, and a HORNY aura could essentially work like pheromones.

 

[Wafflesnake]

i understand that this is just throwing around ideas, but its not that there aren't certain abilities that aren't feasible, its that kineticist has deliberately been restricted telekinetics

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

Yeah, but it has been restricted to telekinesis with the stated reasoning that the alternatives wouldn't be feasible ("Focusing on telekinesis was a necessary choice…"), so pointing out that there are feasible alternatives is relevant. It's not actually necessary to solely focus on telekinesis.

 

[Wafflesnake]

to be clear, i'm just another random person who happens to have witnessed a lot of conversation on it, i don't have any authority on the topic.

that being said, i have seen both adjatha and fenoxo explicitly state that kineticist is limited to telekinetics with little to no telepathic ability. so while you may be right about the feasibility or that its not necessary to focus on telekinetics, they are choosing to focus on the telekinetics

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

I know. I even quoted the part of the blog post where it said that they made the choice.
However, the blog post also presented it as a necessary choice, rather than a "we just liked it more that way"-choice. Which is why I feel the need to point out that there are options to still have some mental influence skills (including, obviously, lust) without creating a chain reaction of plot and lore issues.

Like, restricting it to projecting basic emotions and urges (no mind reading, no actual control), as well as stating that any use of psionic abilities by a kineticist is obvious to people surrounding them, would solve most, maybe even all issues.
If you can't use your abilities stealthily, then they're no different from, say, dropping an aphrodisiac gas grenade.

 

[LucianCanad]

kineticist already gains perks that replace intelligence scaling with physique or aim, bodily psi aim and dexterous psi aim respectively. they are gained during a dream sequence if int is below 50% and either physique or aim is high

Huh. I wasn't aware of that. Probably because I maxed my INT for Force Darts accuracy and Third Eye Aiming.

B, frosty's author has already stated that the PC and Frosty do not communicate with each other psionically

Boo, I say, sir. Boo.

And even if that's not an option, maybe a kineticist could just make their genitals vibrate from a distance.

This got a chuckle out of me. PSIONIC SEX TOY POWERS, ACTIVATE!

I know. I even quoted the part of the blog post where it said that they made the choice.
However, the blog post also presented it as a necessary choice, rather than a "we just liked it more that way"-choice. Which is why I feel the need to point out that there are options to still have some mental influence skills (including, obviously, lust) without creating a chain reaction of plot and lore issues.

Like, restricting it to projecting basic emotions and urges (no mind reading, no actual control), as well as stating that any use of psionic abilities by a kineticist is obvious to people surrounding them, would solve most, maybe even all issues.
If you can't use your abilities stealthily, then they're no different from, say, dropping an aphrodisiac gas grenade.

I like this. And, well, this is the point of a feedback topic, isn't it? We're throwing around ideas hoping they pick up on something enough people like or that tickles their fancy.

Mind control can really be a plot breaker, but I don't think that has ever been introduced in-game. It's just influence and some Pavlovian conditioning (and dubcon shenanigans, of course).

 

[Tide Hunter]

It is kinda odd to not have a lust-based psionic ability, even if it's just, like, a pink cone of horny, given two things.
First, the icon for the class has two hearts coming out of the hand, which would imply there's at least some lust based power in it.

Spoiler: The icon

Second, the fifth level perk "Mind Trick" already broached the barrier of influencing somebody's mind, as its text states that you're using your willpower to go into the grappler's mind and convince them to let you go.

Spoiler: Mind Trick

Given that, it feels almost obvious that the Kineticist would have some ability to make an opponent gain lust. Even just something that isn't numerically stronger than a normal tease, but is flavored to be psionic (and may use your intelligence or willpower) could work.

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

The kineticist's Mind Trick does specify that it's hard to use, outside your general skill set, only works for a split second, and I think it might even mention that it only works due to grapple-proximity.
So, I get why Mind Trick as written doesn't allow any other uses - you essentially need prolonged physical contact just to get a single basic suggestion into their head, which then fades immediately as soon as the contact ends.

I just don't think it has to be written that way.

/Edit: I mean…

Even just something that isn't numerically stronger than a normal tease, but is flavored to be psionic (and may use your intelligence or willpower) could work.

We already have stuff like this - Red Myr Venom is essentially just a tease with a different damage typing - drug, rather than tease, I think. IIRC, Nyrea cum dick slap also works that way.
Having a "Psionic tease" (available by default/by leveling perk for kineticists, maybe unlockable for others) would essentially be the most basic implementation of the HORNY blast I keep joking about.

 

[runingman69]

So I started a new steele as a kineticist and let me say good class! It is a solid build and can really take out most foes with ease with the powerful abilities.

 

[Tide Hunter]

From what I remember, Tech Specialists with the Fuck Sense perk could use libido in place of intelligence, but if their intelligence was higher than their libido's effective power (since it's converted based on max intelligence), their abilities would return to scaling based off intelligence. I'd like something similar for Kineticist perks. Specifically Instinctive Psyfocus (libido instead of willpower), and also probably the physique/aim instead of intelligence perks (Though I haven't tested those, since that's accuracy rather than damage).

I noticed with a bit of testing that Instinctive Psyfocus completely overrides willpower. Rather than potentially letting you automatically swap back if you're better served by willpower, willpower becomes useless, even if you max it out and let your libido drain to the minimum. I don't like that.

 

[Couch]

The main reason not to want to have lust abilities in Kineticist is that lust abilities would suck. Any lust ability that has any kind of cost is competing against Tease, which is free, easily boosted with both equipment and perks, and does enough lust damage to easily handle any enemy who's vulnerable to defeat by lust. Lust damage is covered. A class needs to cover how to deal with opponents you need to actually fight. This is also why we don't really get slut rays anymore, they're a waste of an equipment slot.

As far as the class itself, having just finished a Kineticist run:

Kineticist right now lives by the strength of its active abilities: it can cover almost every elemental damage type with active abilities, meaning you can devote your ranged weapon slot to either Electrical damage, the one element with no option, or one of the freezing guns for a better Deep Freeze inflicter than Entropic Whip. Psychogenic Vim is the best healing ability in the game, and on any other class it would be broken, but with the rate that Kineticists tear through Energy it's necessary to keep them playable. Gravity Crush is an enormous upgrade for them as well, doing heavy damage to basically every important enemy, and probably the single best ability for direct damage. Maybe a Mercenary can do more, but that's about it.

As far as things that could stand to be improved:

• Psionic Shielding doesn't compete with Psituned Vitality. It doesn't have the synergy with Psychogenic Vim, and it gives you less total stamina except in extremely long fights.
• Vitality Siphon doesn't compete with Psychogenic Vim. Kineticists need Energy recovery like they need air, and Vitality Siphon doesn't give it to them. When Energy is 200 and Psychogenic Vim gives you 150 of it up front, Vitality Siphon should be giving you at least 60 or 70 per round when it requires you to spend the next three turns making basic attacks to get it.
• Deep Impact doesn't compete with Mind Crush. Kineticists are the worst class at landing crits, since they rely on active abilities that can't crit and they can't double attack without Haste, so they don't get a meaningful benefit out of a crit-enhancer.

All in all it's an excellent class, and hits the mark a lot better than Tech Specialist when it comes to making you feel like a wizard-type character. Other than the handful of points above, I think Kineticist is basically good to go. I'd like a slightly wider array of attuned weapons, but that's a flavor quibble.

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

The main reason not to want to have lust abilities in Kineticist is that lust abilities would suck. Any lust ability that has any kind of cost is competing against Tease, which is free, easily boosted with both equipment and perks, and does enough lust damage to easily handle any enemy who's vulnerable to defeat by lust. Lust damage is covered. A class needs to cover how to deal with opponents you need to actually fight. This is also why we don't really get slut rays anymore, they're a waste of an equipment slot.

Fair enough, that's a good enough reason not to give them active lust skills.

A tease side-grade would still make sense, though. We already have variant teases available through transformations: The Myr Venom perk, having a large dick with nyrean cum, or having vanae milk each allow you to use a "special tease" attack (Bite, Dick Slap, Milk Squirt - which, I think, all count as drug lust damage? Not sure.)
Having a psionic tease (essentially nothing more than a tease that would replace the lust damage type with psionic lust damage), would be… well, as I said before, the most basic implementation of the HORNY blast I keep joking about.

Other than that, I could think of various ways to use "projecting basic emotions" as debuff skills. Projecting anger into the enemy's mind to cause recklessness (lower dodge), or fear to make them more hesitant (and lower their damage). Again, as long as it's explicitly too flashy to be done in secret, it's easy enough to explain why Steele doesn't use it outside of combat, and the influence would be far too basic to give any kind of control.

So far, the only genuine reason not to give kineticists any mental influence skills (besides Mind Trick, which is kind of already an "And that's why not"-Example) would be the slippery slope - people might think "If this is okay, why not that" and want more mind control.
Well, and most of these would be complete reworks of the class, which aren't going to happen this late after implementation.

Except for a psionic tease. It needs almost no changes: Put it into the tease menu, have it based on the same formula as tease, just have it do psionic lust damage, like how (I assume) the other special teases do drug damage. Or just have it do regular tease damage, by making the opponent's genitals vibrate.

 

[Theron]

Psionic Shielding doesn't compete with Psituned Vitality. It doesn't have the synergy with Psychogenic Vim, and it gives you less total stamina except in extremely long fights.

Unlike the Tech Specialist, they don't have any perks to make Shields better, either.

Vitality Siphon doesn't compete with Psychogenic Vim. Kineticists need Energy recovery like they need air, and Vitality Siphon doesn't give it to them. When Energy is 200 and Psychogenic Vim gives you 150 of it up front, Vitality Siphon should be giving you at least 60 or 70 per round when it requires you to spend the next three turns making basic attacks to get it.

It would probably help if the 2nd and 3rd levels of Psi-Noise Generators were in (50%-100%). It might be better to balance without assuming the player will find and use them, because they would be a nigh-mandatory Accessory. Much like the Drone Accessories for Tech Specialists, but worse. Maybe a percent of max Energy would be better.

Deep Impact doesn't compete with Mind Crush. Kineticists are the worst class at landing crits, since they rely on active abilities that can't crit and they can't double attack without Haste, so they don't get a meaningful benefit out of a crit-enhancer.

How does Deep Impact work, anyway? Will vs Physique, or something else? Also, it doesn't seem like it works with Power crits. Gravity Flux (Trip)->Geothermal Spike (Crit & Stun)->Acid Cloud (Crit vs Stun) seems like a combo you should be able to do, but you can't.