[Implemented] Akane, Space Mob Boss

[Amakawa Yuuto]

It wasn't "extreme", but it still managed to (at least) completely miss my point of sudden, enforced out-of-character behavior from the protagonist ("No matter how you played your Steele before, they now suddenly care about a version of honor that has no precedent anywhere else." (Yielding in a conflict generally does not mean that your opponents are honor-bound to let you walk free.) )
Saying "that doesn't matter, it's optional content" is like saying "consistent characterisation of the main character does not matter".

 

[Zombiqaz]

I'm pretty sure there's been a warning since it had been pointed out and compared to Riya early on. Maybe you missed it in the doc.

I skimmed the doc to see if anything had changed. I guess I missed it.

As for the money thing, that is your last-second cop-out, no? The quest appears at level 7, money is easy to come by at this point, even without save editing. And consider a flight option. Would they really let you get away? Would the authorities really be able to do anything? The only logical option I see for you getting out of this wholly unscathed is to rambo it up and take out the entire gang by yourself.

What I could see before that would be an option to tell the police about your email and the shop they set up, then something along the lines of the representative getting arrested, interrogated and set free thanks to lack of evidence, ending up with you never seeing them again.

Even if you give them your money, this is still a quest with a punishment at the end where there's usually a reward.
The thing is that you really do successfully go Rambo against other criminal groups, including ones that (I think?) are more heavily armed than Akane's group.

The other part is that the setup for the final encounter is:
Mob: Dear Steele, with have set up a trap for you. Please enter it here.
Steele: Ok.

If you wanted to treat this as a situation that Steele would respond to (rather than just a setup for bondage sex) then you could have Steele prepare for the meeting. (Though I am aware that this would require more writing, and more scenario planning.) As you mentioned, you could contact the police. In theory, you could have Steele bring one of their better-armed friends as backup but that runs into the issue of writing using other writers' characters. You could have Steele refuse to enter the back room. Perhaps you could have Steele research them before hand to know what sort of techniques they use, and be ready with some Flash Goggles to protect from the light and some airtight armour to protect from the dart.

Of course, it would be a lot of writing to do all of these. Going to the police would probably be the easiest thing to write.

There's also the question of why you would let them get away with it, but that part hasn't been written yet.

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

The thing is that you really do successfully go Rambo against other criminal groups, including ones that (I think?) are more heavily armed than Akane's group.

One of the galaxy's most notorious criminal syndicates, commonly called pirates after the high seas-era brigands of Terra. The Black Void has been operating for at least three centuries, growing out of hundreds of different crime empires on several worlds during the last planet rush. Operating on the very fringes of galactic society, the vast fleets of pirate ships are able to raid the newly settled colonies with virtual impunity, beyond the reach of U.G.C. law enforcement.

Indeed, the utter lack of response the Void's piracy has merited from Confederate officials has led many to suspect that the organization has corrupted key officials, though no proof of this infiltration has ever surfaced.

In the core worlds, the Void has a strong influence in vice to this day, though not as strong as it once was. With millions of worlds, even the largest organizations must give way to local syndicates and crime lords, though many pay "respects" to the Black Void. The area where the Void most excels, as far as core-world crime goes, is slavery: most crime groups refuse to deal in it, or don't have the resources to manage a full slaver ring, but the Void dominates the market. While the pirates capture slaves on the fringe, the prisoners are cataloged and shipped to the core, where they're sold in underground dens, usually as deep-space laborers or as pleasure slaves.

You get to wipe out one of their bases. Oh, and that was also a trap (for Kara, who brings you with her).

So, the current list of complaints, as far as I can tell, is:
The only warning so far is in a hovertip (they aren't exactly easy to read when you play on android).
The quest reward is punishment.
Nothing you do during the quest matters.
Steele acts straight up out of character in some scenes (insane pseudo-honor out of nowhere, walking into obvious traps).
You can not win, you can't even break even.

 

[Chiyose]

I never knew the forum was such a serious place.

 

[XBoxMaster131]

I never knew the forum was such a serious place.

Only when it come to shit like this.

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

I never knew the forum was such a serious place.

I'm just sour because nobody reacted to my Ranma 1/2 reference on the first page of this topic.

(This post may not be entirely accurate.)

 

[Chiyose]

Only when it come to shit like this.

But what if I like shit like this

The quest reward is punishment.

Except it's not exactly the end of the quest, the slavery ring busting is still WIP.

KaraQuest 2 was by no means a level 7 quest unless you happen to be extremely well equipped, brings around stuff like shield/health/energy recharges and manage your energy/lust extremely well through out three (and a half) simultaneous boss fights (well you get to heal up and restore energy before Shade and Amara, but Amara can be even worse than the jug). There weren't really an actual warning for that too, but I rarely see people complain about not being well informed beforehand, most just asks about how to beat the juggernaut.

You also talk about wiping out one of their base, which happened to be poorly manned at the time but Khan let you in anyways just for his entertainment. Imagine trying to crack it with all the members present, I doubt it would go very well. You also had a legitimate reason to attack them, seeing as they're dwelling in grey areas such as mind control, whereas the Hosts simply offered to turn a blind eye on illegal activities so long as they pay for their secrecy, and would turn said individuals out if they fail. Definitely shady, but not really worth it to try and take down.

About character actions though... well, your fate is at the author's hand really. I see a lot of similar complaints about Poe A where you're not offered an option to back down at the last minute, even though there's a very clear warning attached in your emails saying that attending will have permanent consequences. Surely people would work out what the worst that can happen in such a universe, this here is the same, you make the calls, not Steele. You're the only one responsible for not minding your own business and constantly provoks a somewhat harmless, well disciplined syndicate. Of course Steele will be suspicious of the email, but it's your call to go in head first and get captured or stay the hell away from the place. I doubt the police would really do much anyways, seeing as they basically work as the police in places where more legitimate citizens would not dwell in (again, similar to the way old yakuza works very well with the police back then).

I should stop before I continue this rant any further, so tldr:
You are the one that's actually calling the shots, while Steele simply acts as a sentient puppet dangling at your strings. What consequences of the actions you make is of your own doing, if you don't like where it's going, you don't have to follow down the road. It's not really flawed game design as much as players never caring about the details as they click through scenes after scenes until it's too late.

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

KaraQuest 2 was by no means a level 7 quest [...] There weren't really an actual warning for that too, but I rarely see people complain about not being well informed beforehand, most just asks about how to beat the juggernaut.

Give players a chance to succeed, and they'll be fine, even with crazy odds. This quest has failure hard-coded into the plot (which, to me, is only a lesser problem with it).

You also had a legitimate reason to attack them, seeing as they're dwelling in grey areas such as mind control, whereas the Hosts simply offered to turn a blind eye on illegal activities so long as they pay for their secrecy, and would turn said individuals out if they fail. Definitely shady, but not really worth it to try and take down.

Okay, at which point does "the Host" stop to describe their complete business portfolio to you, instead of just doing their cocky vanishing act? Steele just knows that they are a criminal group who could do whatever else on the side, and my Steele's reaction to that is to interfere with them out of principle unless given a good reason not to.
Also, whatever reason you have should have no impact on success or failure...

I see a lot of similar complaints about Poe A

Yeah, I'm in that thread, too, and the complaints are similar - insufficient and easy to miss warning and gross out of character behavior.

You're the only one responsible for not minding your own business and constantly provoks a somewhat harmless, well disciplined syndicate. Of course Steele will be suspicious of the email, but it's your call to go in head first and get captured or stay the hell away from the place.

From the moment the quest starts, the player just gets the option to "press button to continue". It's the big red button effect. At least, there needs to be an abort option - after starting the quest - next to it.

(again, similar to the way old yakuza works very well with the police back then)

Side note:
The Yakuza are named after a losing throw in a dice game, because their main incomes for the longest time were gambling dens and beating money out of gambling addicts and other deptors. As anything else, this got romanticized over time. (I'm not against romantizised Yakuza, but I'm going to point out that they were never really as clean and good as fiction and myth pretends.)

I should stop before I continue this rant any further, so tldr:
You are the one that's actually calling the shots, while Steele simply acts as a sentient puppet dangling at your strings. What consequences of the actions you make is of your own doing, if you don't like where it's going, you don't have to follow down the road. It's not really flawed game design as much as players never caring about the details as they click through scenes after scenes until it's too late.

Nowhere does this quest warn me this will happen:
"You consider retaliation. Invisible as they are, a swipe or a shot would catch them in this window.

They did submit, however… honor for honor. You instead put your [pc.weapon] in its holster and dust yourself down."
Gross out of character actions based on no code of honor (and, in fact, diametrically opposed to several) I've ever heard of, completely unrelated to anything else Steele does.

The rest is just "Here's a big red button! (If you press it you lose half your money.)".

 

[Noob Salad]

Wow guys this is a very interesting discussion. But consider the following.

Akane is not going to be changed.

 

[Coalsack]

Again, you fail to see the issue. Nobody is asking for changing the NPC behaviour/personality. All that people wants is a better back-out button.

 

[null_blank]

You know what this reminds me of? Dead Money DLC from Fallout New Vegas. The player follows a waypoint set in a mysterious location and is gassed, knocked out and captured. One of the first things that is asked by your captor is, "Do you always just blindly walk to coordinates set before you?"

 

[Chiyose]

Okay, at which point does "the Host" stop to describe their complete business portfolio to you, instead of just doing their cocky vanishing act? Steele just knows that they are a criminal group who could do whatever else on the side, and my Steele's reaction to that is to interfere with them out of principle unless given a good reason not to.

It is true that you don't know 100% of the Host's business around the frontier and the core, although I managed to catch onto their whole "collecting protection fee" thing pretty quickly, since every investigations so far have turned up with them doing something related to that. And after you talk with the people they deal with it should help paint the picture quite easily.

The Yakuza are named after a losing throw in a dice game, because their main incomes for the longest time were gambling dens and beating money out of gambling addicts and other deptors. As anything else, this got romanticized over time. (I'm not against romantizised Yakuza, but I'm going to point out that they were never really as clean and good as fiction and myth pretends.)

I don't claim to know Japanese history completely, even with all the romanticization ultimately the yakuza is still a group of its own interests, black mailing and all that. They were never clean or good, although video footages usually don't lie about what they do for society, unless someone is really that bored to go out of their way and make a massive crime syndicate look pretty.

 

[SoAndSo]

So yeah, someone flagged the doc.

Rip the canvas while the paint is still wet, why don't ya.

 

[Noob Salad]

Again, you fail to see the issue. Nobody is asking for changing the NPC behaviour/personality. All that people wants is a better back-out button.

Again? I've only posted once in this thread before and that was a joke. Here, let me try again.

A back-out button is not going to be added.

 

[TheDevilYouKnow]

So yeah, someone flagged the doc.

Rip the canvas while the paint is still wet, why don't ya.

Apparently there's an issue: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/zmz3yw/why-is-my-google-doc-locked-terms-of-service-bug

 

[SoAndSo]

Apparently there's an issue: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/zmz3yw/why-is-my-google-doc-locked-terms-of-service-bug

So it actually is all just a coincidence.

Cheers dude.

 

[TFMaster]

You know what this reminds me of? Dead Money DLC from Fallout New Vegas. The player follows a waypoint set in a mysterious location and is gassed, knocked out and captured. One of the first things that is asked by your captor is, "Do you always just blindly walk to coordinates set before you?"

I kinda wish you wouldn't have mentioned that particular FNV DLC, it brings back some memories. Memories of how annoyingly difficult Dead Money was. You'd have to constantly be aware of your surroundings otherwise your head could explode just because a radio just so happens to be emitting just the right frequency to set off your bomb collar. Then there was that poisonous fog that would make you deader than a doornail if you stayed in it for too long. Oh and those freaking ghost people who just won't fucking die! Sorry that I got off topic there BTW.

 

[Emerald]

insufficient and easy to miss warning and gross out of character behavior.

Okay. First of all, how can you be OOC in a game where the PC's personalities/character isn't even consistent in the first place? What with dozens of writers writing for Steele, they ALL make the PC act different and even OOC to your headcanoned Steele anyways.

And second of all but still relevent to the first point. This just sounds nothing but self-insertish and tbh you should know by now that self-inserting or being IC to your headcanon in this game is hard as fucking balls given, again, the PC is NOT gonna act entirely (Or at all) the way you want him to be in certain scenes.
Like, I get people wanting to play the way they want and for the PC to act the way they want, but it's literally impossible in this game. Heck if they want that, they should stick to headcanon rather than trying to force it into the actual canon game.
Even I knew to stick to headcanon because I've had moments in the past where I had my main PC act like a fucking jackass without me even knowing that was how he was gonna act in the scene. And I just reloaded a save and never touched the scene again.

 

[General Drayfox]

@SoAndSo
In honour of SpookyDay'17©, Akane you should say "We have such sights to show you", gotta reference those sadomasochist classics!
On a serious note I absolutely love this content, plz more.

Also, what are the items planned to be/ be like?

 

[SoAndSo]

@SoAndSo
In honour of SpookyDay'17©, Akane you should day "We have such sights to show you", gotta reference those sadomasochist classics!
On a serious note I absolutely love this content, plz more.

Also, what are the items planned to be/ be like?

Unique melee weapon and accessory, plus a perk that's flavourful for her content, in general and even for combat. Completing her sex scenes gives you combat-beneficial status effects. Thanks to Fens weapon rebalance thing, I've nailed down some cool concepts for the items.

 

[General Drayfox]

Unique melee weapon and accessory, plus a perk that's flavourful for her content, in general and even for combat. Completing her sex scenes gives you combat-beneficial status effects. Thanks to Fens weapon rebalance thing, I've nailed down some cool concepts for the items.

Guessing the perk is that Pain-Slut thing that pops up in the document? Sweet.
Also plz be space-katana plz be space-katana plz be space-katana.

But I'm gonna guess it's a whip?

 

[Chiyose]

Also plz be space-katana plz be space-katana plz be space-katana.

But I'm gonna guess it's a whip?

Giant flaming sword pls.

 

[General Drayfox]

Giant flaming sword pls.

We've already got Lava-Sabers?

 

[Chiyose]

We've already got Lava-Sabers?

But those are only sabers, I want this.

 

[Xeivous]

But those are only sabers, I want this.

Why go for some third-rate space mage flaming sword when you can desire a god tier space mage's flaming sword?

 

[Zavos]

But those are only sabers, I want this.

Couch has got you covered. Of course, it will never see the light of day until 6 more planets worth of prepackaged upgrades are written for it.

 

[Chiyose]

Why go for some third-rate space mage flaming sword when you can desire a god tier space mage's flaming sword?

Space marines don't even use two handed swords with the exception of the storm wardens... bleugh.

 

[Amakawa Yuuto]

Okay. First of all, how can you be OOC in a game where the PC's personalities/character isn't even consistent in the first place? What with dozens of writers writing for Steele, they ALL make the PC act different and even OOC to your headcanoned Steele anyways.

So, to sum it up, because there will never be a perfectly consistent characterisation, all attempts at consistent characterisation should be abandoned?

I'm pretty sure there's a name for that kind of "go perfect or go home" fallacy, but I don't remember it.

A less fallacious version of the argument would be "this amount of OOC is beyond the point of diminishing returns, the gain is insufficient compared to the energy and time you spent on complaining", to which I'd answer "I disagree, and how I spend my time and energy is my choice".

 

[Chiyose]

"I disagree, and how I spend my time and energy is my choice".

Same can be said about everyone, including the content creators.

 

[Noob Salad]

So, to sum it up, because there will never be a perfectly consistent characterisation, all attempts at consistent characterisation should be abandoned?

Yes, that's exactly what we're saying. There are a ton of writers, most of them volunteers. They'll write what they want or they won't write at all. You're just arguing with forum randoms, lol.