How do powers interact with weapon attributes?

[Bobonga]

For example: Thunderstrike does an attack with +150 attack power. The description requires a melee capable weapon.

The mace has 35 crushing dmg and 20 armor penetration. So does thunderstrike only calculate with 35 dmg? Is it a crushing attack? Is armor penetration used? Actually does the champions attack power factor in as well or only the 150?

The javelin has the thrown attribute. Is thunderstrike now classified as a ranged attack ignoring the evasion buff of flight? I rarely miss thunderstike against the flying harpies with my javelin, but whe using the griefmaker I miss alot against flying harpies. My agility is 15.

The metal wand does 35 storm damage, but instead of penetration or crushing it is calssified as magical. Does it still scale with attack power or with spell power? Does it traget armor or ward? Do powers like crowd control or rend now do storm damage?

 

[Savin]

The mace has 35 crushing dmg and 20 armor penetration. So does thunderstrike only calculate with 35 dmg? Is it a crushing attack? Is armor penetration used? Actually does the champions attack power factor in as well or only the 150?

In this case, a Thunderstrike with a Mace would do (35 x (2.5 + PC's Attack Power)) Crushing damage, with (20 + PC's Penetration) Armor Penetration. The PC's Attack Power and Armor Pen passives are factored in, yes.

Thrown weapons count as whichever is more favorable between ranged and melee weapons. So yes, you're throwing a Thunderstrike at range. Fun!

The metal wand does 35 storm damage, but instead of penetration or crushing it is calssified as magical. Does it still scale with attack power

With Attack Power, yes. In all ways it's treated like a normal ranged weapon, it just deals elemental damage (the same as if you used the Beast Killer with its Blight damage).

 

[Bobonga]

Thank you for the reply and the great work you and your team are doing!

 

[Soulskulptor]

In this case, a Thunderstrike with a Mace would do (35 x (2.5 + PC's Attack Power)) Crushing damage, with (20 + PC's Penetration) Armor Penetration. The PC's Attack Power and Armor Pen passives are factored in, yes.

Thrown weapons count as whichever is more favorable between ranged and melee weapons. So yes, you're throwing a Thunderstrike at range. Fun!


With Attack Power, yes. In all ways it's treated like a normal ranged weapon, it just deals elemental damage (the same as if you used the Beast Killer with its Blight damage).

what about when you're dual wielding? if i'm using a weapon with the thrown tag in off hand, will it take have an effect if the enemy is flying?

 

[Burnerbro]

what about when you're dual wielding? if i'm using a weapon with the thrown tag in off hand, will it take have an effect if the enemy is flying?

The second weapon uses the full Attack Power modifier on its reduced based damage and is unaffected by the damage modifiers of weapon powers, unless the power in question has a DualWield tag (atm the only power like that legitimately available to the player is Dual Blitz). So when you use a power like Thunderstrike, you will get one empowered attack from your main hand with all the extra modifiers and one regular attack from your off-hand. Cleave has a weird interaction with dual-wielding, allowing the character to make a regular attack with each weapon against every opponent.

Based on my experience, throwing weapons are counted as ranged for the purposes of hitting flying targets, and since attacks from each hand are calculated separately, even if you have a normal melee weapon in your main hand any attacks from a throwing weapon in your off-hand should bypass the extra evasion enemies might get from flying. However fliers tend to have high base evasion, and throwing weapons tend to add an extra -5 Accuracy on top of -10 you get from dual-wielding, so you will still be missing a lot.

 

[Tide Hunter]

With Attack Power, yes. In all ways it's treated like a normal ranged weapon, it just deals elemental damage (the same as if you used the Beast Killer with its Blight damage).

So, it's not even useful for spellcasters except for pairing with an offhand? If it scales off attack power rather than spellpower, then strength somehow impacts its damage despite being magical, while willpower does nothing, right?

 

[Savin]

So, it's not even useful for spellcasters except for pairing with an offhand? If it scales off attack power rather than spellpower, then strength somehow impacts its damage despite being magical, while willpower does nothing, right?

Right.

Also Drake wanted me to add that the magic blasters target WARD instead of ARMOR. So that's neat.

 

[Zavos]

As addendum to Savin said, each offensive action is mitigated by two stats, one to reduce the effect, and one for a chance of avoiding it entirely. Physical damage is reduced by armor, magical damage is reduced by ward and resolve damage is reduced by focus. These are all percentage decreases, with deminishing returns at higher values. Physical attacks are avoided through physical resistance, magical attacks are avoided by magical resistance and resolve attacks are avoided through mental resistance - but none of these avoidance apply to area of effect skills, which are avoided through evasion.

 

[Burnerbro]

Physical attacks are avoided through physical resistance

Doesn't physical resistance work as basically a D&D style Fortitude save: to resist adverse physical maneuvers like knockdown and adverse physical affects like poison or blinding applying to the character?

 

[Kingu2]

Doesn't physical resistance work as basically a D&D style Fortitude save: to resist adverse physical maneuvers like knockdown and adverse physical affects like poison or blinding applying to the character?

That's right. Physical attacks are actually avoided by evasion.

 

[Soulskulptor]

The second weapon uses the full Attack Power modifier on its reduced based damage and is unaffected by the damage modifiers of weapon powers, unless the power in question has a DualWield tag (atm the only power like that legitimately available to the player is Dual Blitz). So when you use a power like Thunderstrike, you will get one empowered attack from your main hand with all the extra modifiers and one regular attack from your off-hand. Cleave has a weird interaction with dual-wielding, allowing the character to make a regular attack with each weapon against every opponent.

Based on my experience, throwing weapons are counted as ranged for the purposes of hitting flying targets, and since attacks from each hand are calculated separately, even if you have a normal melee weapon in your main hand any attacks from a throwing weapon in your off-hand should bypass the extra evasion enemies might get from flying. However fliers tend to have high base evasion, and throwing weapons tend to add an extra -5 Accuracy on top of -10 you get from dual-wielding, so you will still be missing a lot.

ok, so i'd be better off using the Dagger in main hand for flying enemies.

 

[Burnerbro]

ok, so i'd be better off using the Dagger in main hand for flying enemies.

More or less. Though out of all the throwing weapons, a javelin is currently the best general option. You avoid any accuracy penalties that way and actually get an accuracy boot, plus some bonus evasion - at the cost of either crit (compared to daggers) and penetration (compared to francisca).

Shields are atm a universally better option for your off-hand than a second weapon, since they give you defensive stats and crit immunity, compared to a pretty small damage boost dual-wielding provides at the cost of a sizable accuracy penalty.

 

[Soulskulptor]

More or less. Though out of all the throwing weapons, a javelin is currently the best general option. You avoid any accuracy penalties that way and actually get an accuracy boot, plus some bonus evasion - at the cost of either crit (compared to daggers) and penetration (compared to francisca).

Shields are atm a universally better option for your off-hand than a second weapon, since they give you defensive stats and crit immunity, compared to a pretty small damage boost dual-wielding provides at the cost of a sizable accuracy penalty.

i see.

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

I was wondering how well a Kunai might work as a thrown weapon, but there are so many factors, it's really hard to tell.

They have garbage base damage (10), but they inflict a Bleed that does 15 base damage for 2 turns and is affected by Attack Power (and ignores Armor completely), so it's functionally got a base damage of 40 with super high Armor Penetration, just... delayed, which could be a huge drawback. It's also got the most Accuracy of all thrown weapons at +10.

In the main hand, using a skill that adds a lot of Attack Power, it could be pretty good against high-Health, high-Armor targets... maybe?

From watching interactions with Blessing and Flare, I think DoT damage is set when the ability is used. As opposed to, say, Charge Weapon which recalculates its bonus every time you hit instead of keeping whatever value it had when you entered the stance. That means the Bleed should keep its high value even after the Attack Power bonus from using the power is gone.

My brain just isn't a good enough simulator for me to accurately guess how it would all work in practice.

 

[Bobonga]

In the main hand, using a skill that adds a lot of Attack Power, it could be pretty good against high-Health, high-Armor targets... maybe?

No, it totally sucks. The kunais damage completly relies on the bleed, which can get very high. To give an example:

I was using the javelin and did about 18 dmg against the Mino miners in the undermountain. With the kunai I dealt about 5 dmg, BUT a 24 dmg bleed for 2 turns, so 53 dmg in total. All attack power boosts affect the bleed as well. With a crit I do 42*2 bleed, with bless 39*2 and with bless+crit 57*2. The highest bleed I got was against the lureling at 88 dmg for 2 turns. This is on a character completly build for survival, not dmg. I put my exact stats down below. Also difficulty does not affect the bleed. Im playing on normal.

If you use high attack power skill, like thunderstrike, you maybe get 15 dmg + normal bleed. I tried using the kunai with rend, neither do the bleeds stack, nor did the kunai bleed increase. It was still 24.

The kunai is in my opinion the best ONE-handed weapon for regular attacks. It's better to use with powers with independet dmg, like bullrush, dominance or lightning fist than weapon based skills.

I use shielded stance for tankiness, cleave for mass bleed (I could use crowd control, but the kunai dmg is so low it doesn't make a difference), lightning fist for stun and a bit of dmg, bull rush for massive dmg, stun and threat.

I will post my attack power stat in a moment.

Edit: My attack power is 61. 17 Strength and 10 extra from the champions belt.

The Lureling bleed was a crit with bless and 37 extra attack power from a brazenberry ale.

 

[Burnerbro]

Also difficulty does not affect the bleed.

If the difficulty modifiers actually don't effect DoTs, it would be quite a major oversight - or a very weird design decision.

 

[Bobonga]

If the difficulty modifiers actually don't effect DoTs, it would be quite a major oversight

The kunai is not. I did a quick test. The wolfs in the forest took 18*2 bleed on Stroy diffculty. The painted demons on Dark took 18*2 bleed as well. Iirc the bleed of rend does not change either. Brint and my character did the same individual amount of bleed regardless of difficulty.

It is safe to assume that enemie dots do not scale as well.

- or a very weird design decision.

Honestly, not that weird. I think that (in CoC 2) DoTs are more of a nice to have than a primary source of damage. Only the kunai DoT is strong because it scales so well and is the main source of the kunais dmg.

Also DoTs don't stack with themselves, but they can be refreshed.

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

So the Bleed does not benefit from Attack Power bonuses that originate from powers. That's super important information. Because Bless massively increased the burn DoT from Flare, I thought DoTs retained their bonuses, but it seems it's just inconsistent, some do and some don't.

I knew from the wiki that Bleed reduces healing by 25% but I just realized yesterday that the target being on fire reduces healing by 50% (at least that's what I was seeing, almost 100 healing to people who weren't on fire but only half that on people who were). DoTs seem to work very differently from each other so apparently it's best not to expect one to behave like another. Makes it harder to figure out how they work but it gives them individuality.

One thing that is consistent is that DoTs don't stack. It's problematic because, if you're going to be using a Kunai in your main hand , what are you going to be using in your offhand? Statistically a shield does make the most sense, but who fights with a Kunai and shield, especially if the character is intended to be a damage dealer?

I find myself using 2H weapons almost all the time just because I never know what to do with my offhand slot. I wish there were some sort of Accuracy bonus for having the offhand empty (historically it's why it's better than using two weapons). Maybe when "empty" equipment slot stats are implemented, that's what the offhand bonuses will be... right now there's only the Rusty Knife and it seems to be broken as it does not enable melee weapon powers, but I think the idea is very promising. Just a bit weird due to how Evasion is reversed right now; you start with zero from being naked and lighter armor adds more than bulky armor, instead of starting with huge Evasion for being naked and light armor having tiny penalties and bulky armor having huge penalties.

Anyway, back to the Kunai... the Bleed scales with personal Attack Power (from Strength and equipment), from external buffs (like Bless), but not from Attack Power from powers. And Attack Power from powers would do basically nothing because the Kunai's base damage is freakishly low. Yeah, that means you would indeed want abilities that have set damage (and Cleave, to inflict the Bleed on everything). I could see that working.

It's an interesting thought, but ultimately, basing an entire build around a single weapon's "on hit" ability is maybe too hardcore for me. And I can't think of a character theme that matches such a strategy. A brawny shield user using a bunch of strength-based unarmed physical attacks, but uses a garden tool as a main weapon? I guess it's the shield that really throws me off, otherwise you could totally excuse a martial artist with a Kunai. For the offhand, then... maybe a Chrysanthemum Petal? Does the effect even trigger if it's in the offhand? I don't know that either, but proccing Bless with a Kunai in the main hand sounds like it'd be real nice.

I have yet to experiment with that weapon either. A crit build could be great. Using AoE weapon attacks (Cleave, Crowd Control) you'd be very likely to get at least one crit against multiple opponents, and with Sure Shot you could pretty much guarantee one against a single opponent... you could keep Bless on yourself nearly all the time. Assuming it doesn't just proc with regular attacks and Cleave and the like.

Ah, the curse of not knowing how things work... hopefully at some point the wiki will have all that information. For now, back to testing, testing, testing.

 

[Bobonga]

but who fights with a Kunai and shield

I do. This is my opinion, but the kunai is not meant to be primarily a damage dealer weapon. Think of it as that:
The kunai allows a champ NOT build for damage to do quite a considerable amount of damage. I used the javelin, francisca and mace before. The kunai outdamages all of them with regular attacks.

I play a tank build. My goal is survival and the kunai allows me to deal consistent damage. I know that I always do atleast 24*2 dmg. Only ghosts and constructs can't bleed and everything pure physical sucks against ghosts any way.

My javelin dealt about 15 dmg on a normal attack, the kunai about 5-7, so even with only 1 bleed proc I dealt more than double dmg already. So I need 2 javelin attacks to make up for 1 kunai hit. The mace is the hardest hitting one-handed melee weapon, because good armor piercing and a lot of enemies have a -10 crushing resist. I dealt about 30-35 dmg per hit, about the same the kunai does.

Also having the dmg in the dot is often a advantage. I would actually need to attack twice with the mace to do my 60 dmg. With the kunai I attack once and can spend the second turn doing something else, but still get my full dmg. In the 3 third round I can re-aply my bleed.
The kunai allowed my champ to be a contributor dmg wise, buffing my evasion and since it's thrown allows me to ignore flight completly.

I'm splitting this post into 2 parts.

 

[Bobonga]

Continuation:

There is one thing though I have to admit: This playstyle turns any fight into a war of attrition. I did the

Spoiler

underwater dungeon

with Ryn and Arona. Arona was useless since she hit 3 times total in the entire dungeon (not even kidding). The mini-bosses and the boss took a long ass time, but they couldn't beat me. Here my experiences:

Spoiler

Whisper

About 20 turns. Usually he used all 5 of his actions to target me, I had about 45% health left, at the end of the turn. Ryn got killed about turn 12. I used 3 winterstems in total, to compensate for the lack of healing

Spoiler

Tollus + Leold

About 40 turns The bleed was enough to outdamage Punch-mans regeneration. Just by 2-5 points, but it was dmg. I'm certain this fight would have turned into an eternal stale mate without the bleed.

Spoiler

Lureling

About 30 turns. That thing has a 75% penetration/crushing resistance and I beat it with only health dmg and without spells. Granny wolf did like 20 dmg per hit.

 

[Tide Hunter]

you start with zero from being naked and lighter armor adds more than bulky armor, instead of starting with huge Evasion for being naked and light armor having tiny penalties and bulky armor having huge penalties.

You can't be naked though. You don't have a bonus for naked evasion because you can't be naked.

One thing that is consistent is that DoTs don't stack. It's problematic because, if you're going to be using a Kunai in your main hand , what are you going to be using in your offhand? Statistically a shield does make the most sense, but who fights with a Kunai and shield, especially if the character is intended to be a damage dealer?

I find myself using 2H weapons almost all the time just because I never know what to do with my offhand slot. I wish there were some sort of Accuracy bonus for having the offhand empty (historically it's why it's better than using two weapons).

The kunai is pretty much designed to be an offhand weapon, since its bleed is attached to its special rather than it stats, and it has a high accuracy to offset the accuracy penalty for offhand weapons, so while it's technically worse in the offhand than in the main hand, it is much better in the offhand than basically all other Light weapons, but worse than most light weapons as a main hand weapon if you are planning to dual-wield two light weapons.

As for using it in the main hand with a shield, that is rather reasonable, given Bobonga's playstyle. Since they're passive, the damage is good for their turns where they don't attack, but if there was an attack every turn then it would get quite a bit worse.

or the offhand, then... maybe a Chrysanthemum Petal? Does the effect even trigger if it's in the offhand?

I've never gotten the Chrysanthemum Petal, but given how specials on other items in the offhand (whether they're light weapons being dual-wielded like the Kunai or purely offhand items like the Fox Gem or the Rosebloom shield) will activate, it probably would.

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

I know mechanically a Kunai and shield makes sense, it's just too weird for me thematically speaking.

You can't be naked? This is the weirdest sex game ever.

So offhands can proc abilities. Good to know, thanks.

The Kunai as an off-hand weapon... hmm. I suppose, now that we know it doesn't benefit from Attack Power from powers and will still yield a full-power Bleed in the off-hand, it's absolutely something that should be considered. So... a good main hand weapon (for damage), the Kunai in the offhand for the full-strength Bleed. Cleave would be awesome. You'd just lose some of Accuracy on the Kunai.

And the thing is, because enemies often act more than twice per round, I think Bleeds are better than one would think. Hit something with the Kunai, and it's very much possible that any "big" target will have triggered both Bleed ticks before the end of the round, leaving you free to reapply it when you act again. I've been trying to remain mindful of this because it can change things drastically. A debuff that reduces an enemy's Evasion for two turns could be pretty much worthless (it'll just "act" through both "charges"), but for Bleeds it's actually a big advantage.

Alright, so... Chrysanthemum Petal in the main hand (it actually deals damage), Kunai in the off-hand. Abilities like Cleave, Crowd Control and Sure Shot. You'd proc "Bless" on yourself all the time, which would make the Kunai's Bleed very very strong.

And that's totally something a ninja-type character would use. I think there's potential for a good damage dealer here.

 

[Tide Hunter]

You can't be naked? This is the weirdest sex game ever.

You can get pretty close though, since most slots let you unequip their items, and the main armor slot, the one section that can't be unequipped, can let you wear the Fishnet Outfit, the Bondage Gear, the Dancer's Silks, or the Latex Bodysuit. The fishnet outfit, being fishnet, is practically naked. The bondage gear leaves a ton exposed. The Dancer's Silks are "nearly transparent," though it should be noted that it doesn't have the exposed ass, exposed crotch, and exposed chest tags like the previous two. The latex bodysuit covers everything, but it's also latex, so presumably skintight.

 

[WolframL]

You can't be naked? This is the weirdest sex game ever.

1) It's cold in the Frost Marches so wearing at least something is just smart.
2) You're in civilized territory and they expect you to at least be keeping your naughty bits covered up in public.
3) Most importantly, it saves the writers having to come up with variant text for every scene to account for you starting out naked instead of removing your clothes/having them removed.

 

[Burnerbro]

One thing that is consistent is that DoTs don't stack. It's problematic because, if you're going to be using a Kunai in your main hand , what are you going to be using in your offhand? Statistically a shield does make the most sense, but who fights with a Kunai and shield, especially if the character is intended to be a damage dealer?

Stacking the duration will be more a matter of convenience than of adding power to the moves, so I can see it happening without upsetting the game's balance. Stacking the damage on each individual 'tic' - not so much, because it can quickly get out of hand and surpass all forms of immediate damage for tough fights (again, see Darkest Dungeon struggling with it at certain points). Not sure if I'd like to see crits influencing the duration or damage of DoTs, or maybe even both, once the crits in general are brought more in line with the devs original intentions in terms of their potency.

I find myself using 2H weapons almost all the time just because I never know what to do with my offhand slot. I wish there were some sort of Accuracy bonus for having the offhand empty (historically it's why it's better than using two weapons).

Historically and practically, having the off hand empty provides no discernable advantages. Unless you are close enough to grapple your opponent, you need to tuck it away or it is just another target for enemy attacks that is likely debilitating if hit. Meanwhile, even if all the difficulties of duel-wielding, even a relatively untrained fighter can use their off hand weapon relatively effectively to block or parry, even if attacking with it is much harder. 2h is the way to go on an actual battlefield if you aren't using a large shield (due to formation or simply being too well armored to need one).

It's problematic because, if you're going to be using a Kunai in your main hand , what are you going to be using in your offhand? Statistically a shield does make the most sense, but who fights with a Kunai and shield, especially if the character is intended to be a damage dealer

The wicker shield as shown on Quin's character art is close enough in size to a buckler to make sense on even a ninja cosplaying Champ. Personally, I always at last dabble with magic, so I keep a catalyst in my off hand most of the time, usually Lynx Totem so I can be a dodge tank if needed.

Just a bit weird due to how Evasion is reversed right now; you start with zero from being naked and lighter armor adds more than bulky armor, instead of starting with huge Evasion for being naked and light armor having tiny penalties and bulky armor having huge penalties.

As it stands, Evasion seems to work a bit like D&D AC, representing all of characters efforts not to get damaged, from dodging to parrying with a shield (that gives Evasion for that reason) or taking a blow on the well protected part of your armor.

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

Stacking the duration will be more a matter of convenience than of adding power to the moves, so I can see it happening without upsetting the game's balance. Stacking the damage on each individual 'tic' - not so much, because it can quickly get out of hand and surpass all forms of immediate damage for tough fights (again, see Darkest Dungeon struggling with it at certain points). Not sure if I'd like to see crits influencing the duration or damage of DoTs, or maybe even both, once the crits in general are brought more in line with the devs original intentions in terms of their potency.


Historically and practically, having the off hand empty provides no discernable advantages. Unless you are close enough to grapple your opponent, you need to tuck it away or it is just another target for enemy attacks that is likely debilitating if hit. Meanwhile, even if all the difficulties of duel-wielding, even a relatively untrained fighter can use their off hand weapon relatively effectively to block or parry, even if attacking with it is much harder. 2h is the way to go on an actual battlefield if you aren't using a large shield (due to formation or simply being too well armored to need one).


The wicker shield as shown on Quin's character art is close enough in size to a buckler to make sense on even a ninja cosplaying Champ. Personally, I always at last dabble with magic, so I keep a catalyst in my off hand most of the time, usually Lynx Totem so I can be a dodge tank if needed.


As it stands, Evasion seems to work a bit like D&D AC, representing all of characters efforts not to get damaged, from dodging to parrying with a shield (that gives Evasion for that reason) or taking a blow on the well protected part of your armor.

Well, stacking duration kind of wouldn't make much sense anyway, new Bleeds would represent new bleeding wounds. Stacking Bleed damage would be more representative of what's happening, but yes, there could be balance issues with it. Crits influencing the duration instead of the damage would be kind of odd, but it would certainly make Bleeds much weaker (which may or may not be a good thing). DoTs are generally too weak to matter in this game, but the Kunai's scaling Bleed does behave very differently.

Yeah, it's not that having an empty hand is an advantage, it's that even absentmindedly using the offhand weapon to parry and awkwardly attack is going to affect your ability to use your main hand weapon. The old D&D rule had you take a -2 to hit on your main hand weapon and -4 to hit on your offhand weapon for that reason. But here, there's no reason to not use an offhand, it's free damage/protection.

Viewing the wicker shield as a buckler does help thematically. And despite its description, its stats are actually comparable to most other shields, except maybe one (that I can't use on a female character anyway because it's cursed), so it's not unreasonable to keep using it even at level 6. Not sure how that's gonna hold when better shields come out, though. Unless there is some way to upgrade gear or replace one armor's stats with another's (which could be awesome), it's possible that most "themed" gear will simply become obsolete at some point. Even the Kunoichi chest piece, obtained at a fairly high level (probably midway through level 5), is already pretty weak compared to the Royal Leathers. Oh, the tragedy of vertical progression... ah well, we'll see.

D&D making armor into damage avoidance is... kind of odd? It totally works in many situations, an opponent's sword strikes your armor and it does nothing to you. But if a titan hits your halfling square in the chest with a titan-size 2H mace, hitting your full plate armor, you take absolutely no damage and aren't moved at all. That makes no sense. It's true that, in CoCII, there seems to be a bit of subtlety regarding what Evasion is. It's on light armor but not on heavy armor, which makes you believe that it represents your ability to dodge attacks... but it's also indeed on shields, as a way to represent you deflecting attacks with it so they don't actually hit you. It's clever, but it means the definition is more vague. Evasion is "what makes you able to prevent enemy attacks from connecting with your body".

In any case, I've decided I would start trying the whole Crysanthemum/Kunai crit build. I'll need to have Azzyran tank or I'll die, and will probably need Cait healing, but I think it could be pretty cool.

Edit: typo

 

[Prent]

Well, stacking duration kind of wouldn't make much sense anyway, new Bleeds would represent new bleeding wounds. Stacking Bleed damage would be more representative of what's happening, but yes, there could be balance issues with it. Crits influencing the duration instead of the damage would be kind of odd, but it would certainly make Bleeds much weaker (which may or may not be a good thing). DoTs are generally too weak to matter in this game, but the Kunai's scaling Bleed does behave very differently.

Yeah, it's not that having an empty hand is an advantage, it's that even absentmindedly using the offhand weapon to parry and awkwardly attack is going to affect your ability to use your main hand weapon. The old D&D rule had you take a -2 to hit on your main hand weapon and -4 to hit on your offhand weapon for that reason. But here, there's no reason to not use an offhand, it's free damage/protection.

Viewing the wicker shield as a buckler does help thematically. And despite its description, its stats are actually comparable to most other shields, except maybe one (that I can't use on a female character anyway because it's cursed), so it's not unreasonable to keep using it even at level 6. Not sure how that's gonna hold when better shields come out, though. Unless there is some way to upgrade gear or replace one armor's stats with another's (which could be awesome), it's possible that most "themed" gear will simply become obsolete at some point. Even the Kunoichi chest piece, obtained at a fairly high level (probably midway through level 5), is already pretty weak compared to the Royal Leathers. Oh, the tragedy of vertical progression... ah well, we'll see.

D&D making armor into damage avoidance is... kind of odd? It totally works in many situations, an opponent's sword strikes your armor and it does nothing to you. But if a titan hits your halfling square in the chest with a titan-size 2H mace, hitting your full plate armor, you take absolutely no damage and aren't moved at all. That makes no sense. It's true that, in CoCII, there seems to be a bit of subtlety regarding what Evasion is. It's on light armor but not on heavy armor, which makes you believe that it represents your ability to dodge attacks... but it's also indeed on shields, as a way to represent you deflecting attacks with it so they don't actually hit you. It's clever, but it means the definition is more vague. Evasion is "what makes you able to prevent enemy attacks from connecting with your body".

In any case, I've decided I would start trying the whole Crysanthemum/Kunai crit build. I'll need to have Azzyran tank or I'll die, and will probably need Cait healing, but I think it could be pretty cool.

Edit: typo

If you’re going Petal/Kunai I highly recommend Sure Shot for it’s 1 cool down basically guaranteed crit. That way you can activate the petal every other turn

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

If you’re going Petal/Kunai I highly recommend Sure Shot for it’s 1 cool down basically guaranteed crit. That way you can activate the petal every other turn

Definitely! My idea earlier was Cleave, Crowd Control and Sure Shot, and at the time I wasn't sure about Crowd Control because I didn't know if it would attack with both weapons, but I have since tested it and it does.

With Cleave hitting every enemy twice, Crowd Control hitting every enemy twice, and Sure Shot (which is pretty much sure to crit and has a Recharge of 1), my odds of keeping the Bless effect up are really good!

Haven't had a chance to test other multihit attacks yet... not a fan of Suppressive Fire (causes threat, Accuracy penalty, and worst of all there's a typo in the name) but it's an Encounter ability that attacks all enemies, so I'll see if I can use it, at least until I get the superior Deadly Shadow. I also don't like the Accuracy penalty on Triple Threat, but if it attacks with both weapons three times (instead of just the main hand weapon three times) it could be a nice way to pad my damage and increase the odds of getting a crit against big, single targets. Could switch to that for bosses that don't have many adds.

Lots of testing to do still, and I have to go to bed, but I'm looking forward to it. Even at level 2 with just two Daggers I'm already enjoying Cleave and Crowd Control attacking all enemies twice.

 

[Prent]

Definitely! My idea earlier was Cleave, Crowd Control and Sure Shot, and at the time I wasn't sure about Crowd Control because I didn't know if it would attack with both weapons, but I have since tested it and it does.

With Cleave hitting every enemy twice, Crowd Control hitting every enemy twice, and Sure Shot (which is pretty much sure to crit and has a Recharge of 1), my odds of keeping the Bless effect up are really good!

Haven't had a chance to test other multihit attacks yet... not a fan of Suppressive Fire (causes threat, Accuracy penalty, and worst of all there's a typo in the name) but it's an Encounter ability that attacks all enemies, so I'll see if I can use it, at least until I get the superior Deadly Shadow. I also don't like the Accuracy penalty on Triple Threat, but if it attacks with both weapons three times (instead of just the main hand weapon three times) it could be a nice way to pad my damage and increase the odds of getting a crit against big, single targets. Could switch to that for bosses that don't have many adds.

Lots of testing to do still, and I have to go to bed, but I'm looking forward to it. Even at level 2 with just two Daggers I'm already enjoying Cleave and Crowd Control attacking all enemies twice.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but just in case, you should know that you can’t equip cleave, crowd control, and sure shot at the same time. They’re all recharge powers

 

[VerySexyGrammar]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but just in case, you should know that you can’t equip cleave, crowd control, and sure shot at the same time. They’re all recharge powers

That's totally correct, once I get Sure Shot I'll be dropping Crowd Control since it's basically just a weaker Cleave that takes 1 round longer to recharge. I figure then it'll be something like Sure Shot to proc Bless, Cleave (with Bless on) for massive damage and probably proc Bless again, Sure Shot again (yet another Bless proc) and then Blessed whatever else (Deadly Shadow?) so I can either Sure Shot or Cleave again. Sounds pretty good to me.

But that's a good point... that Chrysanthemum is currently a late-game item so I'm not going to have it and Crowd Control at the same time. Technically, if I'm expecting a large number of enemies, I could switch Sure Shot out to temporarily get Crowd Control back, but that's probably not going to happen all that often.

And yeah, you can never, ever have all three at once. Only two slots for regular moves.

Haven't even figured out my At-Will... it's possible I'll never use it anyway, so I might just dump Mirror Stance in there just so I can copy powers when I see an enemy I still need something from.

Edit: oh, maybe Equanimity... it's a crit build, after all. Not sure it's worth losing a turn for, though.