Could the PC be a homunculus?

[Kingu2]

Spoilers for those who haven't seen the scene yet.

Spoiler

we learn from Mallach that River the catboy bard is essentially a Homunculus that he created and explains why River is so evasive about his past, it being very vague and made up of false memories. he then explains that there are many others in the world just like River made by himself and other gods for various reasons. It got me thinking about our own PC and the fact they too have a rather vague and unclear past and manages to completely avoid the subject whenever it comes up. in fact during the first scene where Garth asks for your story the PC couldn't seem to piece together how he came to the Marches and why, just as they're getting the words out Cait bursts in with a head wound. their are various other ocassions where the PC's past is sort of glossed over never mentioning family, friends, where they grew up or how and why they went to Hawkthorne. there is also the issue why they have nothing on them when they get there. in CoC1 you go through the portal unarmed and with nothing because you're a sacrifice to the demons by your corrupt elders in exchange for power, but what's the explanation here for why you you have no money, no food, no weapon, nothing but the cloths on your back in a place like the frost marches.

I think the PC may actually be a homunculus but who created them and for what purpose? I'm looking for confirmation on this theory of mine I just want to see what other people think about it.

 

[WolframL]

You realize that spoiler warnings don't work when there isn't enough indication of what content is about to be spoiled and said spoiler is immediately below the inadequate warning, yes? The board can do proper spoiler tags like so ({spoiler} and {/spoiler} but with square brackets) when you want to post stuff like that.

Also, you're forgetting that because there are a number of background options, there's no one example that the prologue can draw on and doing a dozen variations to account for them all would be way more effort than it's worth. There are plenty of instances elsewhere in the game where the Champion will reflect on their past, when it's important to the scene. Meanwhile over-describing details runs into the issue that being too specific inhibits roleplaying.

 

[Kingu2]

You realize that spoiler warnings don't work when there isn't enough indication of what content is about to be spoiled and said spoiler is immediately below the inadequate warning, yes? The board can do proper spoiler tags like so ({spoiler} and {/spoiler} but with square brackets) when you want to post stuff like that.

sorry this forum stuff is new to me I will remember that for the future

Also, you're forgetting that because there are a number of background options, there's no one example that the prologue can draw on and doing a dozen variations to account for them all would be way more effort than it's worth. There are plenty of instances elsewhere in the game where the Champion will reflect on their past, when it's important to the scene. Meanwhile over-describing details runs into the issue that being too specific inhibits roleplaying.

I didn't forget the plethora of background options, I'm not saying that writers should bother with every little detail about the PC's past, from a writing and gameplay stand point I think great to have so much freedom and so many options for roleplaying. what I am saying is that this is a cool possibility that has opened up as a result of that freedom and is one that makes a lot of sense narratively when you think about. I think it would be a neat thing to discuss among other fans.

 

[WolframL]

sorry this forum stuff is new to me I will remember that for the future

I'm sorry if that was unclear, what I mean was that you should spoil-tag that post you already wrote, like I showed you how to. You might recall that when they first announced that update, it was marked in the blog post as having spoiler content, yet you give that detail away in the second line of your post with no way to warn anybody what you're spoiling in the topic title or without an adequate space cushion after your impossibly generic 'spoilers if you haven't seen that scene' line, because the fact that

Spoiler

River is a homunculus

is itself a spoiler.

what I am saying is that this is a cool possibility that has opened up as a result of that freedom and is one that makes a lot of sense narratively when you think about. I think it would be a neat thing to discuss among other fans.

Yeah, it's a possibility, sure. I don't see it happening because the Champion does have a sufficiently defined past and you're reading way too much into the intro scene when Garth is still something of a stranger. Also, reread the scene, it's not that the Champion is having trouble remembering their past, it's that they're having a hard time putting into words why they left it behind. But we know they have reasons because every background description contains some kind of hook and a lot of those are the kind of thing that you might imagine the Champion has trouble opening up about to a relative stranger. For example, the Barbarian background is literally 'everyone I ever knew is dead', which isn't something you're necessarily going to tell someone easily. The Arcanist background mentions splitting with your teacher on bad terms (you're free to imagine what those were) which is the same sort of thing, and so on. Your Champion has a history, it's just one told in broad strokes so the player can fill in the gaps to their liking.

In other words, yes it's a possibility but it's not at all a likely one and the evidence you're using isn't as clear-cut as you think.

 

[Kingu2]

Yeah, it's a possibility, sure. I don't see it happening because the Champion does have a sufficiently defined past and you're reading way too much into the intro scene when Garth is still something of a stranger. Also, reread the scene, it's not that the Champion is having trouble remembering their past, it's that they're having a hard time putting into words why they left it behind. But we know they have reasons because every background description contains some kind of hook and a lot of those are the kind of thing that you might imagine the Champion has trouble opening up about to a relative stranger. For example, the Barbarian background is literally 'everyone I ever knew is dead', which isn't something you're necessarily going to tell someone easily. The Arcanist background mentions splitting with your teacher on bad terms (you're free to imagine what those were) which is the same sort of thing, and so on. Your Champion has a history, it's just one told in broad strokes so the player can fill in the gaps to their liking.

In other words, yes it's a possibility but it's not at all a likely one and the evidence you're using isn't as clear-cut as you think.

Yes the past of the champion is sufficiently defined because it's supposed to be so no one questions it, same with River. If they're given false memories to go along with that how would they know, you would think someone with a hunter growing up in the northlands would be more familiar with the frost marches especially if they're a Lupine but the champ isn't. and it would make sense for warrior who's clan was wiped out by orcs might have a prejudice against them but they don't. As I said before I don't think the writers should bother with every little detail but if those gaps are filled in easily enough for the player then there filled in easily enough for everybody in the game as well. And that doesn't even address the fact that you start with literally nothing. If you where an experienced soldier/warrior/hunter wouldn't you bring a weapon and some armor. If your a noble scion shouldn't have some money and sufficient equipment for your class. "Men and women, young and old, rich and poor... these homunculi have existed in all forms, from poets to prostitutes." - "Some, like River here, are fashioned out of thin air and have memories of their pasts fabricated." these words are straight from Mallach

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

I hope not. Being an artificial creature made by a god is the gateway drug to the chosen one bs I hate. Plus it'd probably fly in the face of Savin's dislike of power fantasies. And I'd think if we were a homunculus, one of the gods would've said something or wouldn't be able to make us their champion without stepping on the creator's toes. The backstory being vague is probably just for roleplay purposes. It's better, in my opinion, that the player is just someone who was in the right place at the right time and is willing to get shit done. Mutations from absorbing the portal magic is the best explanation for a lot of things anyway, even the amazing memory. If there is a twist, I'd assume it'd be that the magic wasn't from the portal, but some super wraith that fucked up trying to get in and accidently bonded with the pc, making them some wraith hybrid. But even that ventures into power fantasy territory, so I don't think there's gonna be some big dramatic twist like that. Just some shmuck who decided to help a big titty kitty and got involved in some deep shit.

 

[Undecided]

I don't think it'd make much sense if the PC was a homunculus. Why would the Seven be so interested in them if that was the case? Additionally, who would of created such a humonculus in the first place, seeing as the Seven seemingly would be unaware of that / them (or just very disingenuous with the PC - which probably isn't out of their character lol).

In all honesty, I think the PC represents something that neither the demons nor the Seven can predict, which is why they want to align themselves with them. It is that inherent unpredictability which scares them and makes them want to have some level of dominion over the PC.

 

[WolframL]

And that doesn't even address the fact that you start with literally nothing. If you where an experienced soldier/warrior/hunter wouldn't you bring a weapon and some armor.

Your starting gear is based on your class, Warriors start with a sword. You are literally arguing against what the game actually does.

 

[Undecided]

Your starting gear is based on your class, Warriors start with a sword. You are literally arguing against what the game actually does.

In the hopes of not derailing this thread too much, I'd say that (in my opinion) it might be bit of a stretch for a Warrior Class with a Soldier background to literally be traveling unarmed (that is until they get to the tavern). The PC gets armed by Garth with either his wife's Quarterstaff or Short Sword during the tutorial, and as you said, the PC's class determines which they get. Garth himself even mentions to the PC that they can't go out to help Cait unarmed, which is the prompt for him supplying said weapon to the PC.

Meaning that, somehow the PC was doing fine stumbling around with no weapons or means to defend themselves (aside from presumably having the Rusty Knife - which does make the mention of the PC surviving "a year of traveling, exploring, fighting and surviving alone" seem rather arduous - especially with class weapon proficiencies factored in with attributes) until they got to the tavern.
Unless there's some other explanation I'm missing (I know that it mentioned in the tutorial that the PC payed for passage to Hawkethorne, but I would of thought that if the PC had to fight and survive alone previously, they'd still be armed upon undertaking said journey).

I know that's probably looking a bit too in depth, but when it comes to Classes / Background having an impact in weapon selection, not inferring that the PC would have gear of their own aside from clothes is somewhat peculiar (to me at least) - especially when considering that the PC isn't exactly starting at Day 0 - they've had a life previously (signified by their background), which even judging by the tutorial mentions that they fought in the past (and by extent would of had weapons then).
Other than that, the introductory aspect of the tutorial with introducing weapons and combat, as well as the world building and plot works perfectly fine.

Sorry if I've potentially derailed the thread here. Additionally, I don't mean any offense with the above, it's no doubt me overanalyzing.

 

[Kingu2]

Your starting gear is based on your class, Warriors start with a sword. You are literally arguing against what the game actually does.

The starting gear you get is what Garth gives you based on your class. If you're a warrior he gives you his wife's short sword, If you're a thief or magic user he gives you his knife or quarterstaff respectively. The champion themselves didn't have a weapon prior to this.

 

[WolframL]

Okay, fair point, Garth gives you a weapon. That's one detail. The rest of my points still stand.

 

[zagzig]

Spoilers for those who haven't seen the scene yet.

Could you please edit spoiler tags into this post? Somebody already explained how to do it and the Convocation of Mirrors stuff is generally kept hush-hush.

You realize that spoiler warnings don't work when there isn't enough indication of what content is about to be spoiled and said spoiler is immediately below the inadequate warning, yes? The board can do proper spoiler tags like so ({spoiler} and {/spoiler} but with square brackets) when you want to post stuff like that.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

We don't really know what happened between starting the adventure and arriving in Hawkethorne. It's intentionally vague, yes, but we could've had a weapon and it got lost or broken. Bronze weapons can break easy and I doubt any iron stuff is well made. It's on us, I believe, to fill in the blanks so we can roleplay. It's not like the player starts rich. Even the noble scion background starts with almost nothing.

 

[Kingu2]

Sorry about the Spoiler thing it kept giving me an error message whenever I tried to edit but I finally got it to work.

 

[Emerald]

The PC is your average joe until the portal shit but that's probably as much as it gets for chosen one stuff, end of discussion, there's no "Might be" on them being like

Spoiler

River.

They just aren't.

 

[Kingu2]

Okay, fair point, Garth gives you a weapon. That's one detail. The rest of my points still stand.

The rest of your point was that the PC's backstory was well defined to which I pointed out that they were filled with intentional gaps left by the writers and could very well be false memories.

We don't really know what happened between starting the adventure and arriving in Hawkethorne. It's intentionally vague, yes, but we could've had a weapon and it got lost or broken. Bronze weapons can break easy and I doubt any iron stuff is well made. It's on us, I believe, to fill in the blanks so we can roleplay. It's not like the player starts rich. Even the noble scion background starts with almost nothing.

you do realize that we have bronze age weapons that have been used in battle and have survived to this day right. if you know h to use and maintain your equipment (like a soldier) they're not going to break so easily. And yes there are many things that might have happened on the way to Hawkthorne. That very same vagueness is exactly what makes it plausible that the PC might have just popped into existence with false memories.

 

[Mad Dog]

The PC is your average joe until the portal shit but that's probably as much as it gets for chosen one stuff, end of discussion, there's no "Might be" on them being like

Spoiler

River.

They just aren't.

Well to be fair, average joes just don't learn abilities to a level of proficiency in a single day. The MC is already a talented individual. Just not an Anakin-esque talent.

 

[WolframL]

Well to be fair, average joes just don't learn abilities to a level of proficiency in a single day.

I assume that falls under the category of 'Portal Shenanigans' just like the Champion being a recessive breeder and their body being explicitly more mutable as a result of getting bathed in magical mojo at the start. And the rest is gameplay and story segregation because taking anywhere from days to months to master some new combat trick or magical spell might be more realistic but it wouldn't be fun.

The Observer has been pretty forthright about how that level of realism isn't something they care about, like, at all.

The rest of your point was that the PC's backstory was well defined to which I pointed out that they were filled with intentional gaps left by the writers and could very well be false memories.

Shall we bring Occam's Razor into this? What requires fewer assumptions: That the gaps in the Champion's backstory are because the writers don't want to step on the ability of the players to mentally roleplay their Champion, or that the gaps are part of some deep secret that requires you to assume the existence of some other entity that created the Champion (with no evidence for such an entity to date), for some unknown purpose? Bear in mind the following thing:

Spoiler: Convocation of Mirrors

The devs have been clear that they have no interest in deeply exploring the possible nature of the Seven pre-Godswar because that 's not the story they want to tell and it would quickly spiral out of control. That plus Savin being quite clear that Kas is intended to be the big bad of the whole game doesn't leave much room for some entity to go around creating a homunculus Champion, plus what Wint3rRyd3r.said before about how it doesn't make much sense for one of the Seven to have done the job.

 

[Wint3rRyd3r]

The rest of your point was that the PC's backstory was well defined to which I pointed out that they were filled with intentional gaps left by the writers and could very well be false memories.



you do realize that we have bronze age weapons that have been used in battle and have survived to this day right. if you know h to use and maintain your equipment (like a soldier) they're not going to break so easily. And yes there are many things that might have happened on the way to Hawkthorne. That very same vagueness is exactly what makes it plausible that the PC might have just popped into existence with false memories.

Yes we do have bronze weapons in museums. And they're completely unusable. Even well made steel weapons can chip, roll, or dull. We stopped using bronze as a metal for weapons for a reason. If the pc used it enough, any weapon they had could've become unusable. It's not an issue in game because it's fantasy and no one likes weapon durability systems. And if they say they do, they're lying. But arguing about bronze stuff and they're quality has nothing to do with the actual topic.

Spoiler

After the Convocation quest is when we meet Mallach and he tells us about River and homunculi. If he's willing to tell us all of that, then I don't see why he wouldn't say "like you" or something to that effect. If the player were created by one of the seven, then one of them could easily swoop in and say "Hey gimme that soul. I want the power and it's mine anyway." but no one does. And if we were artificial, then the soul selling TF's wouldn't be a thing. It's obvious that Mallach controls river to an extent and he can hop in and use his body, so it's safe to assume that the other gods can't mess with another's creation without permission. And if three are confirmed to make the deal, I don't see why the creator would allow the loss of their creation's soul when it's apparently so good. The player's backstory is vague for roleplaying purposes. Like most Bethesda rpgs. If you want to headcanon and roleplay a homunculus, then go for it. But strictly speaking, we have no real evidence for such a thing. And like I said before, Savin has been said to hate power fantasies. That keeps being said. Being a God's personal creation on top of the portal magic is pretty close to being a power fantasy.

 

[Kingu2]

Spoiler

After the Convocation quest is when we meet Mallach and he tells us about River and homunculi. If he's willing to tell us all of that, then I don't see why he wouldn't say "like you" or something to that effect. If the player were created by one of the seven, then one of them could easily swoop in and say "Hey gimme that soul. I want the power and it's mine anyway." but no one does. And if we were artificial, then the soul selling TF's wouldn't be a thing. It's obvious that Mallach controls river to an extent and he can hop in and use his body, so it's safe to assume that the other gods can't mess with another's creation without permission. And if three are confirmed to make the deal, I don't see why the creator would allow the loss of their creation's soul when it's apparently so good. The player's backstory is vague for roleplaying purposes. Like most Bethesda rpgs. If you want to headcanon and roleplay a homunculus, then go for it. But strictly speaking, we have no real evidence for such a thing. And like I said before, Savin has been said to hate power fantasies. That keeps being said. Being a God's personal creation on top of the portal magic is pretty close to being a power fantasy.

Spoiler

It may not be one of the seven that created them though because in the Convocation quest you learn that they aren't actually gods but very powerful wraiths. They may not be the only ones to have survived the war. It could even have been another Marethian god that escaped the demons invasion in a similar manner to Kas. And I really don't see why you keep bringing up the power fantasy Mallach said in his explanation that they are mundane and have no divine power whatsoever, being a homunculus does not necessarily play into power fantasies.

I assume that falls under the category of 'Portal Shenanigans' just like the Champion being a recessive breeder and their body being explicitly more mutable as a result of getting bathed in magical mojo at the start. And the rest is gameplay and story segregation because taking anywhere from days to months to master some new combat trick or magical spell might be more realistic but it wouldn't be fun.

The Observer has been pretty forthright about how that level of realism isn't something they care about, like, at all.

yeah 'Portal Shenanigans' and 'magical mojo' seem about as likely as being a homunculus who was designed to be adaptable to a multitude of environments and situations via an easily mutable body and a very high comprehension and retention rate to learn skills at an abnormally fast pace.

Shall we bring Occam's Razor into this? What requires fewer assumptions: That the gaps in the Champion's backstory are because the writers don't want to step on the ability of the players to mentally roleplay their Champion, or that the gaps are part of some deep secret that requires you to assume the existence of some other entity that created the Champion (with no evidence for such an entity to date), for some unknown purpose? Bear in mind the following thing:

Spoiler: Convocation of Mirrors

The devs have been clear that they have no interest in deeply exploring the possible nature of the Seven pre-Godswar because that 's not the story they want to tell and it would quickly spiral out of control. That plus Savin being quite clear that Kas is intended to be the big bad of the whole game doesn't leave much room for some entity to go around creating a homunculus Champion, plus what Wint3rRyd3r.said before about how it doesn't make much sense for one of the Seven to have done the job.

I see no reason at all why it couldn't be both. This whole scenario is entirely hypothetical and is in all likely hood not the case. I just wanted to point out the possibility is there and want to see what people think about it. I don't expect this to ever be confirmed as the truth and I don't care if it's debunked I'm not looking for confirmation. But as it currently stands there is no evidence to say that the PC isn't a homunculus.

 

[Emerald]

yeah 'Portal Shenanigans' and 'magical mojo' seem about as likely as being a homunculus who was designed to be adaptable to a multitude of environments and situations via an easily mutable body and a very high comprehension and retention rate to learn skills at an abnormally fast pace.

The portal shenanigans literally happen at the start of the game at the very end of the tutorial and is mentioned at multiple points outside of that even so idk why you're being all sassy about it being as likely as something that isn't even remotely implied to be a thing for the Champ ingame.

 

[Kingu2]

I really don't get why people are so apposed to the idea of the PC being a Homunculus but here's the evidence I've noticed.

Spoiler

you're background and history are very vague and filled with gaps much like a certain catboy, and yes I know it's for roleplaying purposes and blah blah blah but the point still stands. you end up in Hawkthorne with with no weapon, money or supplies and there's really no good explanation for that no matter your background. In the first game it made sense with you being a sacrifice but here it doesn't make sense. The PC of CoC2 also has a highly mutable body and a trait that lets them learn new skills and abilities at an incredibly fast rate. In the first game the ease of transformation was implied to be a trait of humans specifically, that's why that PC always started out as a human and why the demons coveted humans as slaves above all others. the other trait is one they don't share as the PC of CoC1 took a considerable amount of time to learn new skills. in CoC2 the assumption is that it has something to do with the portal but is an assumption made by the PC who doesn't have the slightest idea of how portals work. The PC being a homunculus, designed with a purpose and given false memories gives explanation to all of this.

Now as for who might have created them and why is anyone's guess, there is a world of possibility. Although it wouldn't likely be one of the seven as they don't have any power over the champion.

Now let me be clear. I'm not trying to guess at Savin's intention with the story or his preferences so lets not drag him into this. I'm also not saying that the PC is definitively a homunculus, in fact I don't expect this to turn out to be true at all. I think it's a cool possibility that has opened as a result of the information gained from a little chat from a god that could have big ramifications for the PC if it where in fact true. And I think it deserves to be looked at and discussed instead being immediately dismissed as impossible.

 

[Emerald]

No offense but the reaching is so strong I think I felt my arms cramp up without even stretching them out. >.>

The PC of CoC2 also has a highly mutable body and a trait that lets them learn new skills and abilities at an incredibly fast rate. In the first game the ease of transformation was implied to be a trait of humans specifically, that's why that PC always started out as a human and why the demons coveted humans as slaves above all others. the other trait is one they don't share as the PC of CoC1 took a considerable amount of time to learn new skills. in CoC2 the assumption is that it has something to do with the portal but is an assumption made by the PC who doesn't have the slightest idea of how portals work. The PC being a homunculus, designed with a purpose and given false memories gives explanation to all of this.

This isn't a fucking assumption by the PC Only, doesn't Ivris even notice your funny portal magic air or something? I can't remember who did, but iIt's practically so prominent others notice you're not exactly normal.
The portal magic also explains why you can just stuff yourself with shit and TF so easily without needing to tinker it while everyone else needs either alchemy or potions and whatnot to change as easy as you.

Literally your evidence stems off the portal, not that the PC is some strange god-created entity. If that was the case, I feel like we as the players would've known that from the start in some way or had some ACTUAL hints to it. Because I wouldn't enjoy it as some big twist(tm) as that just feels like a cop-out or something.

Also their ability to learn new skills so easily can be said for every other fucking PC in games ever. Nobody is gonna enjoy GRINDING FOR SKILLS, there's a reason they only take a few days at worse and involve a simple timeskip; nobody got time for that shit, and taking months would throw off the timeline of the game. Hell, even CoC1 had you learn new skills on like, level up that can be super OP if you spam the teas and whatnot for the stats required for shit like double hitting and Regen as early as like level 2 or some shit.
It's why I don't like how pregnancy in TiTS works for instance, everything takes so fucking long and yet the game takes place in the span of a couple months where if you intend on getting the game done in that timeframe you gotta shuck your preg fetish (I don't have it but many here do) out the window for a lot of pregnancies as they're long and time consuming and I'm still begging for a fast-preg option if one hasn't been in the works already.
Similar to CoC2, the game supposedly takes place in only a couple months, icr how many exactly, but do you REALLY think Players would want to grind shit out or suddenly have 30+ days pass for one skill? Shuck your realism out the window for one damn minute and think about gameplay and story segregation like Wolf said. I can't keep my attention on a save file for more than maybe just over 60 days nowadays before trashing it and starting a new one because I don't like doing the hundreds of thousands of days other people do. It just feels unbelievable to keep playing after a point.

TL;DR: Your theory is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[Kingu2]

No offense but the reaching is so strong I think I felt my arms cramp up without even stretching them out. >.>


This isn't a fucking assumption by the PC Only, doesn't Ivris even notice your funny portal magic air or something? I can't remember who did, but iIt's practically so prominent others notice you're not exactly normal.
The portal magic also explains why you can just stuff yourself with shit and TF so easily without needing to tinker it while everyone else needs either alchemy or potions and whatnot to change as easy as you.

Literally your evidence stems off the portal, not that the PC is some strange god-created entity. If that was the case, I feel like we as the players would've known that from the start in some way or had some ACTUAL hints to it. Because I wouldn't enjoy it as some big twist(tm) as that just feels like a cop-out or something.

Also their ability to learn new skills so easily can be said for every other fucking PC in games ever. Nobody is gonna enjoy GRINDING FOR SKILLS, there's a reason they only take a few days at worse and involve a simple timeskip; nobody got time for that shit, and taking months would throw off the timeline of the game. Hell, even CoC1 had you learn new skills on like, level up that can be super OP if you spam the teas and whatnot for the stats required for shit like double hitting and Regen as early as like level 2 or some shit.
It's why I don't like how pregnancy in TiTS works for instance, everything takes so fucking long and yet the game takes place in the span of a couple months where if you intend on getting the game done in that timeframe you gotta shuck your preg fetish (I don't have it but many here do) out the window for a lot of pregnancies as they're long and time consuming and I'm still begging for a fast-preg option if one hasn't been in the works already.
Similar to CoC2, the game supposedly takes place in only a couple months, icr how many exactly, but do you REALLY think Players would want to grind shit out or suddenly have 30+ days pass for one skill? Shuck your realism out the window for one damn minute and think about gameplay and story segregation like Wolf said. I can't keep my attention on a save file for more than maybe just over 60 days nowadays before trashing it and starting a new one because I don't like doing the hundreds of thousands of days other people do.

TL;DR: Your theory is bad and you should feel bad.

wow why are you SOOOO mad bro >.>
and no I'm not going to feel bad about putting my thoughts out there, my evidence is solid and if you want to be an asshole about it I'd kindly ask you piss off elsewhere, I didnt' start this to get into a stupid argument over something purely hypothetical.

 

[Emerald]

wow why are you SOOOO mad bro >.>

Bold of ya to assume I'm mad.
"My evidence is solid"
Says who, you call me the asshole when you're getting all hoity. There's nothing wrong with being wrong man, so chill. :U

 

[Kingu2]

Bold of ya to assume I'm mad.
"My evidence is solid"
Says who, you call me the asshole when you're getting all hoity. There's nothing wrong with being wrong man, so chill. :U

No offense but the reaching is so strong I think I felt my arms cramp up without even stretching them out. >.>


This isn't a fucking assumption by the PC Only, doesn't Ivris even notice your funny portal magic air or something? I can't remember who did, but iIt's practically so prominent others notice you're not exactly normal.
The portal magic also explains why you can just stuff yourself with shit and TF so easily without needing to tinker it while everyone else needs either alchemy or potions and whatnot to change as easy as you.

Literally your evidence stems off the portal, not that the PC is some strange god-created entity. If that was the case, I feel like we as the players would've known that from the start in some way or had some ACTUAL hints to it. Because I wouldn't enjoy it as some big twist(tm) as that just feels like a cop-out or something.

Also their ability to learn new skills so easily can be said for every other fucking PC in games ever. Nobody is gonna enjoy GRINDING FOR SKILLS, there's a reason they only take a few days at worse and involve a simple timeskip; nobody got time for that shit, and taking months would throw off the timeline of the game. Hell, even CoC1 had you learn new skills on like, level up that can be super OP if you spam the teas and whatnot for the stats required for shit like double hitting and Regen as early as like level 2 or some shit.
It's why I don't like how pregnancy in TiTS works for instance, everything takes so fucking long and yet the game takes place in the span of a couple months where if you intend on getting the game done in that timeframe you gotta shuck your preg fetish (I don't have it but many here do) out the window for a lot of pregnancies as they're long and time consuming and I'm still begging for a fast-preg option if one hasn't been in the works already.
Similar to CoC2, the game supposedly takes place in only a couple months, icr how many exactly, but do you REALLY think Players would want to grind shit out or suddenly have 30+ days pass for one skill? Shuck your realism out the window for one damn minute and think about gameplay and story segregation like Wolf said. I can't keep my attention on a save file for more than maybe just over 60 days nowadays before trashing it and starting a new one because I don't like doing the hundreds of thousands of days other people do. It just feels unbelievable to keep playing after a point.

TL;DR: Your theory is bad and you should feel bad.

Are you sure you aren't mad? Because you sound like you're mad.

you know what I've taken some time to rethink my response on your comment as well as all the others who have attempted to shoot down my theory.

Now a lot of what you said has nothing to do with what I said at all, but I will address the points that where on topic starting with portal magic "This isn't a fucking assumption by the PC Only, doesn't Ivris even notice your funny portal magic air or something? I can't remember who did, but iIt's practically so prominent others notice you're not exactly normal." alright I'll give you the benefit of that doubt and say other characters notice something magical going on with the PC. (though you should really find the examples to make that point more believable) I made the point to bring up CoC1 to contrast the two champion. now the champ of the first game is always human at the start and it is explained in that game that humans are highly subject to transformation it's a trait they all have portal or no, so you can't say that it's happened that way before. the champ of the second game CAN start as a human. But they can also start as an orc, lupine, wyld elf, or catfolk, and we know a bit about their properties as far as transformatives go. for them, transforming isn't so easy as they need to use alchemy to concoct potions for it to work. now from there try to come up with examples of ANYONE ELSE who became more easily mutable as a result of going through or interacting with portals. you may have the reference (if you can find it) but you don't have the precedent as it didn't work that way before.

now for the other point. "Hell, even CoC1 had you learn new skills on like, level up that can be super OP if you spam the teas and whatnot for the stats required for shit like double hitting and Regen as early as like level 2 or some shit." you are confusing perks (which are passive bonuses you receive upon level up that help you both in and out of combat like double attack and regen) and skills (which are active abilities you use primarily during combat like spells and archery). so not only are you flat out wrong but you you also shoot yourself in the foot by using higher tier perks as your example which have prerequisite perks and require high stats in order to unlock them which can take weeks if not months ingame depending on RNG. in regards to this you learn spells either from books or NPC's if you meet the stat requirements, but the spell proficiency only goes up as you use them in combat which can take a not inconsiderable number of battles. in the case of archery when start training with the NPC that trains it the PC sucks at it. they gradually get better at as they continue to train across many different sessions across multiple days. by contrast thet champion of CoC2 gains new skills in all of a single day. that's not to mention this abnormal learning trait is refernced by Kiyoko, Cait and Leorah at various points, while it is never referenced once in regards to the PC of the first game.

now the rest of your comment goes off on tangents about skill grinding and TiTS pregnancy and ends with you saying you don't play past 60 days without starting a new file. I don't know what you expect me to do with that so I'll move on.

in regards to the PC's vague past. those you of you responding with gameplay/roleplay mechanics let me give a you a little analogy to explain why that argument doesn't work.
I make a statement
Bees are being killed by pesticides
you respond with
your right but here's why we keep doing it though.
whilst going through all the reasons we keep using pesticides you aren't actually disputing the orginal statement.
Bees are being killed by pesticides - The point still stands
this thread wasn't made to talk about gameplay/roleplay mechanics anyway so lets stay on topic.

as for the the PC wandering into town with no equipment or supplies. saying "anything could have happened on the way there" is basically the same as saying "I dunno ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" as if that's a good enough answer and IMO it isn't.

 

[Kingu2]

Now if anyone else wants to take a crack at shooting down this theory feel free the doors open just don't expect me to apologize if I offend you. if the thought of this grand meaningless hypothetical twist frightens or angers you, I implore you to put it out of your mind for the good of your health and find another thread. if you are intrigued by the possibility I welcome you to join the discussion.

 

[Violyn]

I don't really think this theory makes a lot of sense because it just... well... doesn't. Like every "hint" is just some openness so players can insert their own stories and shit to enjoy their character you know?

Because you sound like you're mad

Also not to be rude, but it just sounds like they're very passionate about something that you just happen to be very wrong on, they're not mad, just saying. ^^

 

[Karamaru]

The only thing I found is was how similar the PC's story and Belhar the hero's origin are despite some differences.

 

[Undecided]

Now if anyone else wants to take a crack at shooting down this theory feel free the doors open just don't expect me to apologize if I offend you. if the thought of this grand meaningless hypothetical twist frightens or angers you, I implore you to put it out of your mind for the good of your health and find another thread. if you are intrigued by the possibility I welcome you to join the discussion.

I mean, there are a few posts which haven't been replied to (one of mine included) - if your goal was assumedly to address all of the replies to this thread - but I think it would be best to not think of this as sort of like a contest (which is seemingly inferred by this - "Now if anyone else wants to take a crack at shooting down this theory").

I think that the majority of people just chimed in to give their thoughts / opinions regardless of how they would be received. Taking a stance where someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong when the basis is a theoretical discussion seems somewhat superfluous (in my opinion). No offense intended obviously, but it does sort of come across as a bit defensive of your stance / opinion / viewpoint.

Also, I think it would be best to observe other's reasoning as to why they've reached said conclusion, therefore more understanding can be reached than just sticking to one's own viewpoint (personal bias inclusive).