Also not to be rude, but it just sounds like they're very passionate about something that you just happen to be very wrong on, they're not mad, just saying. ^^
look I can appreciate people being passionate with their opinions on things that they like but I can't appreciate them shitting on my opinion just because they don't like it.
it's one thing to simply disagree. but to say I'm wrong needs to disprove my points which no one has done. If you disagree with me I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm not going to go out of my way to try to convince people on something I'm not 100% sure on but is worth looking at.
I mean, there are a few posts which haven't been replied to (one of mine included) - if your goal was assumedly to address all of the replies to this thread - but I think it would be best to not think of this as sort of like a contest (which is seemingly inferred by this - "Now if anyone else wants to take a crack at shooting down this theory").
you're right I never touched on your post and several others and for that I will apologize, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to ignore you but my responses to some of these posts can take some time and deliberating.
I think that the majority of people just chimed in to give their thoughts / opinions regardless of how they would be received. Taking a stance where someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong when the basis is a theoretical discussion seems somewhat superfluous (in my opinion). No offense intended obviously, but it does sort of come across as a bit defensive of your stance / opinion / viewpoint.
I'd love that honestly. I'd love if everyone could meet this with some healthy skepticism and have a discussion and not a debate. But some here seem to feel the need to try to prove me wrong and I have to correct them. I don't feel like I'm being defensive about it, It's fine by me if people disagree. although
(saying "anything could have happened on the way there" is basically the same as saying "I dunno ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" as if that's a good enough answer and IMO it isn't.)
looking back on it, this line in particular does somewhat strike as defensive. but I meant what I said regardless, if people want a discussion, we can have a discussion if they want to debate we'll debate. I've already said the topic is purely hypothetical, I'm not going to try and convince anyone my opinion is correct or that theirs is wrong. but if they want to argue about the facts of the matter, then I have to present my case and rebuttal so to speak.
Most important question regarding your theory:
Does homunculus have soul? I'm not sure about that. Pc starts with one.
"At any one time, there are about two dozen such homunculi out there in the world, just... living life as normal people. Some, like River here, are fashioned out of thin air and have memories of their pasts fabricated. Others are sired or born of said fashioned homunculi for the most authentic experience. Just after the Godswar, I tried it out for myself, you know. The sixty-odd years I spent as the first River were far happier than what I was before, in as much as I was able to perceive anything approaching happiness. You know what I mean." - This is the answer Mallach gives when asked about soul. For me it is defensive one, almost like he tries to prove something. IMO they don't have soul but he still claims they have normal life. That's my read. I had similar vibes with Bess dating scenes from TiTs.
Regarding quick learning:
I checked Garth, Sanders and Ivris changing class/learn skill scenes (they are exactly the same for changing class and learning skill, that shows how important to plot they are) and I don't see anything that would suggest they are surprised about Pc learning speed (and I never change class in CoC2 so if there would be special first time variant I would see one). I checked Leorah learn skill scene I don't see anything special (maybe first time variant?). I can't find Cait and Kiyoko comments (no surprise here taking in consideration how much of content they have and a lot of it is one time thing). IMO if it was such big deal main npc teachers would comment about that and staff would put more effort into scenes about learning skill
Learning skill from Garth takes 2 days, Leorah 1 day, Sanders 2 days, Ivris 2 days. About Kelt: I got 100 skill on day 4-19:00 on new save. First i needed to find lake, farm (3 encounters with Whitney) and Kelt (I think it was day 2 when i met him). So timing is similar ≅ 2days of training no need for any stats. If you disregard annoying CoC1 movement mechanics and Kelt submission you could learn it in 20h with low roll and in 13h with high roll. So who is learning quicker? Skills from fox morph you max out after 4 training sessions (night visit so i assume ≅8 h sessions with date, training and sex scene). My point is: there is no rule for learning skills in CoC1 and if you count hours of training you would learn them faster in CoC1 than CoC2 at least in above examples.
Valencia goes from 0 to capable fighter in couple of days. On basis of her doc: you need 80 relationship to get best training scene and she gets +10 after 1 session, you can get ≅ 2 session per day (test on full relationship Valencia: training sessions time varies from couple of minutes to ≅ 1h and I can train her again after two 5h waits, doc suggest 12h break) so her full training is something above 4 days. IMO her training is more like changing class than learning one skill and it is ≅ half of Pc time (Change class scene time skip 8 days).
I will not even start on companions and theirs class changing and attribute morphing magical gear.
Game mechanics from CoC1 are not connected to CoC2. No class system vs class system. Rng explore vs map. Changing stats vs constant stats. Even smaller mechanics like rut are different (there was even bug report about that difference recently disregarded as not a bug).
IMO it is a weak argument to compare game mechanics from 2 games and label differences as proof of some plot/theory (even if games are prequel-sequel). Especially when CoC1 mechanics were written on the fly without any consistency (e.g. rapier skill 0/4 and bow skills 0/100, relationships - straight number or % sometimes even beyond 100%). CoC2 staff puts effort to have everything unified.
Someone already pointed it out, they will be no more gods beyond seven and I would assume they would know if you are homunculus, as Mallach almost pinpoint all of them, and Keros manipulates your body and soul:
That suggest that gods would know if you where created by one of them.
Most important question regarding your theory:
Does homunculus have soul? I'm not sure about that. Pc starts with one.
"At any one time, there are about two dozen such homunculi out there in the world, just... living life as normal people. Some, like River here, are fashioned out of thin air and have memories of their pasts fabricated. Others are sired or born of said fashioned homunculi for the most authentic experience. Just after the Godswar, I tried it out for myself, you know. The sixty-odd years I spent as the first River were far happier than what I was before, in as much as I was able to perceive anything approaching happiness. You know what I mean." - This is the answer Mallach gives when asked about soul. For me it is defensive one, almost like he tries to prove something. IMO they don't have soul but he still claims they have normal life. That's my read. I had similar vibes with Bess dating scenes from TiTs.
whether homunculi have a soul is an important question to answer as the PC definitely has one. But Mallach doesn't really answer whether they do or not.
Regarding quick learning:
I checked Garth, Sanders and Ivris changing class/learn skill scenes (they are exactly the same for changing class and learning skill, that shows how important to plot they are) and I don't see anything that would suggest they are surprised about Pc learning speed (and I never change class in CoC2 so if there would be special first time variant I would see one). I checked Leorah learn skill scene I don't see anything special (maybe first time variant?). I can't find Cait and Kiyoko comments (no surprise here taking in consideration how much of content they have and a lot of it is one time thing). IMO if it was such big deal main npc teachers would comment about that and staff would put more effort into scenes about learning skill
Learning skill from Garth takes 2 days, Leorah 1 day, Sanders 2 days, Ivris 2 days. About Kelt: I got 100 skill on day 4-19:00 on new save. First i needed to find lake, farm (3 encounters with Whitney) and Kelt (I think it was day 2 when i met him). So timing is similar ≅ 2days of training no need for any stats. If you disregard annoying CoC1 movement mechanics and Kelt submission you could learn it in 20h with low roll and in 13h with high roll. So who is learning quicker? Skills from fox morph you max out after 4 training sessions (night visit so i assume ≅8 h sessions with date, training and sex scene). My point is: there is no rule for learning skills in CoC1 and if you count hours of training you would learn them faster in CoC1 than CoC2 at least in above examples.
I couldn't find quotes from Cait and Kiyoko but like you said it's a lot of content to comb through. I did find this one from adult Kinu though from talking about education.
"Being able to dance like Mai does looks fun, and like you, there's nothing I can't learn if I set my mind to it. Best inheritance ever, thanks Dad." - Kinu
you're also disregarding the time you need to sleep in both examples
"You and Garth share drinks afterwards as his daughter puts the children to bed, a congratulatory round before you head back to the Frost Hound for much needed slumber. You'll be putting these lessons to use soon enough."
"Eh, that'll do, Rycon," she says at long last. "That'll do. Don't go forgetting everything I've tried to drill into your head today." Given what you've gone just gone through, you'd hope not. A nod. "Go and get some sleep. Tomorrow's going to be another day." Yeah, that sounds like a fine idea, especially since the sun's set a little while ago now. By the time you get back to the Frost Hound, Cait and Brint have long since headed to bed, a thought weighing on your mind as you climb into your own...
Game mechanics from CoC1 are not connected to CoC2. No class system vs class system. Rng explore vs map. Changing stats vs constant stats. Even smaller mechanics like rut are different (there was even bug report about that difference recently disregarded as not a bug)
IMO it is a weak argument to compare game mechanics from 2 games and label differences as proof of some plot/theory (even if games are prequel-sequel). Especially when CoC1 mechanics were written on the fly without any consistency (e.g. rapier skill 0/4 and bow skills 0/100, relationships - straight number or % sometimes even beyond 100%). CoC2 staff puts effort to have everything unified..
Someone already pointed it out, they will be no more gods beyond seven and I would assume they would know if you are homunculus, as Mallach almost pinpoint all of them, and Keros manipulates your body and soul:
Kiyoko does acknowledge your quick capacity to learn when Kinu is still a child, but I don't recall the exact line off the top of my head. Though realistically, that's probably meant to handwave why we can learn so much so quickly.
I really don't get why people are so apposed to the idea of the PC being a Homunculus but here's the evidence I've noticed.
you're background and history are very vague and filled with gaps much like a certain catboy, and yes I know it's for roleplaying purposes and blah blah blah but the point still stands. you end up in Hawkthorne with with no weapon, money or supplies and there's really no good explanation for that no matter your background. In the first game it made sense with you being a sacrifice but here it doesn't make sense. The PC of CoC2 also has a highly mutable body and a trait that lets them learn new skills and abilities at an incredibly fast rate. In the first game the ease of transformation was implied to be a trait of humans specifically, that's why that PC always started out as a human and why the demons coveted humans as slaves above all others. the other trait is one they don't share as the PC of CoC1 took a considerable amount of time to learn new skills. in CoC2 the assumption is that it has something to do with the portal but is an assumption made by the PC who doesn't have the slightest idea of how portals work. The PC being a homunculus, designed with a purpose and given false memories gives explanation to all of this.
Now as for who might have created them and why is anyone's guess, there is a world of possibility. Although it wouldn't likely be one of the seven as they don't have any power over the champion.
Here you compare CoC2 to CoC1. Supposed CoC1 slow rate in contrast to CoC2 incredibly fast rate. You called it evidence.
You are wrong. I took in consideration sleep. I learned Kelt archery in 2 days (with sleep,moving and Kelt submission), Garth teaches skills in 2 day (so what 32h? you need to eat too so 30h pure training? still more than Kelts 20h to 13h). Fox teaches skills in 4 training session with date, sex and sleep I assumed aprox 8h per session so 32h(edited embarrassing math error) with everything. Valencia sleeps in between training sessions and it is in my calculation (in fact her sleep mechanic slows down her learning the most).
You completely disregarded Valencia (as of my knowledge only npc to which you can reasonably compare Pc learning speed, Kinu learn in strange time dimension) and companions, they learn even quicker than Pc. Brienne goes from melee fighter to fire mage in one scene and I don't recall how much time pass there (probably like 1h). Look up how companions attributes changes. Some serious magic works there.
"Being able to dance like Mai does looks fun, and like you, there's nothing I can't learn if I set my mind to it. Best inheritance ever, thanks Dad." - What this dialogue proofs? I don't see any connection to quick learning here. Jack-of-all trade sure but nothing about speed learning.
As of now I don't see any proof of Pc having incredibly fast rate of learning in comparison to anything in game world. Taking in consideration how sloppy learn\class change scenes are done I can bet there is zero plot value in learning speed whatsoever. You find complex plot twist in simplicity. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar - Sigmund Freud (not really him but point stands XD).
You miss completely my point about soulbound so: they will know about it and will not mingle with other god creation, same way they will not touch other gods champions. As we see with Mallach, creator god would knew if something happens to humunculus. If Pc was special humunculus "designed with a purpose" creator god would react (chances that champion god will prevent Pc original purpose). Unless that special purpose was to infiltrate random (with chance that player choose creator god, i heard they are plans for more champions don't know if for all gods) god champion crew - explanation wonky as fuck. Who would be humunculus master? Creator god or champion god? Or maybe double leash? And what would happened when interest of said gods collide? Why even champion god would took that risk? Then they are problems with Pc children.
In conclusion: Your theory answers two questions and generates a lot more that you will fanfic at this point. IMO that's are signs of bad theory.
