CoC Xianxia Mod (0.8w-z for CoC 1.0.2)

lightningshifter

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
120
12
Well some of names for spells are quite general so how can their been copyrights on them too? Still would not try make too obvious references to existing things make if any at all. Melee builds for large and non-large weapon users will get some additions in next few weeks.
I wasn't talking about spells named fire, ice or lightning. I wasn't even talking about cure or anything like that. What Final Fantasy did to name their 2nd and third tier spells was to add suffixes to the words. Sometimes they added little things like -ara, -aga, or aja to words. Other words like Fire to tier 2 Fira... just dropped the e and took an a instead. They could claim copyright on those modified words since they were invented for their games. But enough on that topic now.

I've kinda had a little thing that I've wondered about for a long time now. You know how Black Magic has heal in it? Well I wonder why heal got placed under black magic instead of White magic where it's usually found in games like this (Rpgs not the porn game thing.) Well I can kinda see a connection between old dnd where healing magic was considered necromancy before they later revised it in 3.0 or 3.5 edition to make it conjuration instead. Healing just never struck me as a Black Magic kinda spell. Now if it was a healing spell that leached hp from a target. That I would agree fits with Black Magic.

Now, on to my real point here. You mentioned that these special mage bosses would really put a mage type to the test but... you kinda have perks that auto-cast the buff spells. So, beyond knowing when to heal and when to arouse. I'm kinda curious what you had in mind there? I mean the general safe tactic here is to keep the hp up and try to lust break your opponent. Arouse tends to hit harder than any lust move (short of going lust archer with 5 shots xD). You could go for the hp wins too but generally you stand a better chance of wearing them down on the lust side of things before you will knock their hp out. Unless you've leveled enough to basically obtain all perks outside of those starter perks that you can only choose one of. But that's no biggy there either since the starter perks really just impact your ability to gain stats rather than your actual combat ability in general. I've found though that using lust attacks seems to make the ai use lust attacks on you more frequently. Of course I've always noticed this behavior in CoC even from the Vanilla game. I dunno, it just seems to me that the combat magic in CoC is a little bit stacked towards the one black magic attack that deals lust damage over the actual damage dealing spells. Most of the magic is buffs anyways. I'd have to get the grey spells to see what those do though. Honestly though, the way CoC builds the champions up its' really hard to go purely mage in this game. What I mean by that is that you can limit yourself to mage gear and everything but you're still going to build stats all around as a result of that exploration mechanic sometimes training your stats up. I'd sum up CoC magic as basic spell-sword magic. None of it is really fancy or even enough to wholly stand on it's own. The mechanics force you into certain lust states just to maintain a casting ability for instance.

If I were to rate this mod's strengths I would say it has opened up ranged and lust combat as viable resources. However, it doesn't quite pull away from that inherent trait that CoC has displayed from the beginning. Not that it's a bad thing at all but it's one of those games that favors Jack-of-all-trades builds. The longer you drag the game out, the more your character will turn into one. I've tried to use the magic in this mod to fight high end foes. But honestly it gets outdone in most cases by the new archery and or the new combat perks that really go hand in hand. I mean I can dish out thousands of damage in a single hit on a pre-ascension game. Comparatively the spells are lucky to break the 1k mark even with Intelligence being my highest stat out of all the stats. I mean, my strength is a good 30 points less yet I can dish out 10k hits with single attacks on crits. The one thing those mage perks that boost your fatigue (mana pool) do is make it very easy to use the high fatigue drain moves from the other packages. All of those can do a lot more to quickly end a fight. It's almost like you train yourself to get an obscene pool of mana and then you blow all that energy instead to make yourself an insanely effective melee fighter/archer. I'd have to wait and see these new spells to see how they bring mage focused champions up to par with other focuses. Right now they purely boost the other builds to the point where it's not overpowered but it's not very difficult to weather tough enemies.
 

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
Heal been in black magic is thing comming from vanilla CoC about Fen feeling it will be in Black not White magic. For new spells since I not have as much spare time Liadri atm making new spells to be added so later on I will go and review them telling which one can get in and which need to be redone again. Well one reason I came myself to about explaing it been there is that Black magic more relay on effects used on PC body so heal is affecting PC body, similary buff to make PC body stronger/faster/tougher. For white it more work on enhancing things PC may use that aren;t part of it and ofc still using some spells to attack enemy. Only due to fire and ice been opposite elements I put ice spell in black as we got already fore spell in white magic. For magic bosses there will be some that would have some more clever set up patter of sue spells to not feel their always buf at start then use same 2-3 spells. Again here recently Liadri been working on hard to beat Magic boss.

On jack-of-all-tades build tendency when PC reaching higher lvl's it's due to fact there isn't much perks to be bought for each path so PC ends up with spare perk points that better to be used for something. But I would continue adding more perks on higher lvl's that req. PC sticking to some path to been able to buy them. And for magic there is possiblity I will make some spells that would be typical gained by non casters that would work well with low int to not force PC into getting many mage perks to make other build buffed all time with those spells.

For other paths picking mage perks for sake of getting longer fatgue bar for spellcasting specials...it's slight more complicated thing to deal with. I would think over some things to remedy this unfortunate exploit (probably biggest fault is here that fatigue is all round source for using both spells and non-spell specials since start of CoC).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

Liadri

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
591
483
35
To reply to this damage of magic will be highly increased so expect some serious changes in the future. Cooldown are also added to most spells in compensation. We going toward a more tactical and less spammy wizard.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ormael

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
Not much work done today aside working on making melee multi attacking great again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

lightningshifter

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
120
12
Traditionally speaking though, black magic is always associated with things like curses, and forces that do harm and generally nothing good to anyone. Unless the magic happens to be vampiric in nature in which it would heal the caster from the damage it deals out. I dunno. It seems more like they put heal under black magic so that it would cause a potential lust hit occasionally which is more of a mechanical logic to try to put risk in the act of healing than anything else. To call healing Black magic when every other game that uses white, black, red, blue, whatever magics out there calls healing white magic is kinda contrary to the general rule. Black magic is generally associated with elemental attack magic though. Occasionally you see the darker interpretations that peg it as truly 'Black' in that it's actually associated with darker forces rather than just simply being combative in nature.

Also, multi attacks can be nasty as it is with the right mix of stats and gear already. My current build has a pretty nasty regen clip and that comes with the magical perks that basically give you a very hefty fatigue pool. That basically means you can unload with the fatigue inducing special moves, use magic to buff or autobuff, and heal if you actually take more damage than your regen can cover. In general though you can just spam attack and watch your damage land in the thousands consistently Crits can put you up there even higher. I should try to force multi attacks with my current weapon because I might do even more damage than I can with single attacks. Now the more effective strategy is to use the archery attacks though when you're fighting a high hp enemy. The archery is generally weak compared to melee fighting though when you use the different types of hp damaging arrows.. Except for the one exception where you can turn your arrows into lust shots and fire 5 arrows at once. That is an almost surefire victory tactic because you'll hit for heavy lust damage consistently. Now, if the arrows missed that would take from it but when you consider that the right stats and perks here can pretty much make it impossible to miss. Well those single arrows may not do much but when 5 hit it's suddenly impressive. I can only imagine what ascension will be like with my build. Of course I'm just trying to see what level I can build to before I decide to ascend first.

I will point out that CoC has always been a game that encouraged and rewarded Jack of All Trades Building. So it isn't really an exploit when you don't have any mechanics in place to lock out perks or force players into actual classes with restrictions. If you take the time to level up enough you can eventually obtain every perk. That is a fairly earned build that took time (even if it didn't take real strenuous effort) to obtain. I didn't start touching the mage perks until I ran out of other perks to use because I knew from experience with CoC that magic in this game has always been a secondary focus. The real focus was on the stories and of course the traditional melee combat. If you're going to suddenly nerf the mage perks just because they can be taken by players going a more brawler or fighter route that's just going to once again play back into the magic users being worthless to play. Because you honestly can't sling spells with vanilla CoC and only sling spells to win. It's designed to prevent that. Your mod makes it more feasible to cast during battles but it still hasn't brought those spells up to par with the melee abilities. To top that off, if you take away from the huge fatigue boosts you'll bring things right back to where it's impossible to carry out a fight without having to lust attack or melee your way out. Fatigue forces you to rest afterall. If you cut it back so that mages can't potentially get around 2,000 fatigue by level 30 then they're not going to be able to sling those attack spells like they would need to be able to. Either that or reduce the costs of all the spells then. I mean if you go by Vanilla CoC you would see that it's so easy to burn through that tiny fatigue pool. I will also point out that the only real fatigue draining moves are with archery and especially with 5 shot multishot which can quickly drain your fatigue after a few shots of that..
 
Last edited:

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
Black magic is explained by CoC lore as been powered by lust/emotions so demons are good at this usualy. White is about been as Mew said clear mind and discarding all lustfull thoughts so everyone that not have too high current lust can cast it. That a sort of Fen view when he designed those two type of magic spells in past.

On lust arrows...their deal around 25% of arouse spel effect so firing all 5 will cost you like you would cast arouse at 125% power and 125% cost. So technicaly it's not so far away from using arouse thu it removes chance to backfire for this spell.

There will be some new options for melee fighters in next build so it may change a landscape of G part the game while RP may get smaller updates. And spells just got brought up to ar to melee attacks with scalling of dmg and also can crit. Well if it work and not borked but that will know when my testers will test build I gave them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

Kesil

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
3,487
2,176
The magic system alignment is something I always liked about CoC. I'd be kinda bummed if mods changed it to the stereotypical "white-buffs/black-offensive" archetypes.
 

lightningshifter

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
120
12
I understood that about the black magic here. However, care to rationalize a logical in the game world reason for healing causing lust? I can think of mechanical reasons such as making it potentially dangerous to rely on healing too much. But generally speaking I think it's a stretch to say the act of healing- closing wounds and mending injuries is an act of lust. It might have been in part to curb the excessive reliance on healing. However, I suspect it was also a case of them desiring an equal number of spells in the two schools of magic. That meant that they were able to easily place the other spells but healing could have been placed under black because they didn't want an inequality between the total number of spells in the two schools. I'm not saying that it needs changed. I'm just pointing out that the logic behind making the spell Heal, Black magic is very weak at best without the obvious mechanical and balance elements there. Also, white magic can be offensive too. It's just a bit more positive in it's methods. In fact, White magic generally mirrors a lot of martial arts philosophies in that it tends to either redirect or grant some means of avoiding injury rather than directly attacking. There are white magic attack spells. White magic isn't just all about healing and buffing. Although it typically is better than traditional rpg Black Magic in those departments. There are also more instances of indirectly offensive spells in White Magic. Spells that reflect damage for instance.

Also, I've ground the crap out of the glacial rift and never seen a single grey book drop. The drop rate must be set exceptionally low and or to a specific scene or encounter. Oh well, if I wanted to I could use the editor to cheat and give myself the books that way. I was going to try to do it within the game though without resorting to the editor. I could just grind up several more levels until it finally drops them though.
 

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
Heal is spell affecting others or PC body in this case been affecting PC body so I take it was Fen reason to put it under black spells. As for it may been just simply white spell that I not have a clue why it not been added something for healing for white spells. Maybe this one need to avoid PC spam heal without care for possible fail and lust gain in combat.

For Grey Book only Valkyrie drops it in glacial rift. Also...if you find Giacomo he can sell White/Black/Grey book for gems in case you not wanna keep grining GR Valkyeries for those books.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
For people not visiting discord for mods some progress report: keep working on dual wield stuff and nw also kitsune changes. Stuff looks promising so far and as some people on chat said next build will be really interesting ^^

Ohh right and after few poeple showing interest I talked to Kitteh about permission to use some of new things added to Revamp since last March and he agreed so not know when but would add some of them too to Xianxia.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
Today was little interesting sutff. Mostly fixing bugs my testers found yesterday. Would still make some new stuff for them to test and ofc wrote down some stuff for add tomorrow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

Liadri

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
591
483
35
Curently testing around newest version while enjoying a coffee as I continue expending on Diva the vampire bat girl.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ormael

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
Today is good day...to fix kitsune stuff and make them great again...

If the progress wil be good enough may make some post later on on goddies to come with next version about kitsunes.

AND trully radomly unexpected...4000 th post of mine here on reborned for X time fenforum ^^ Time fly by so fast -_-'
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok and Liadri

ShifterDreams

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2015
514
278
>x3 new stuff for kitsune huh can't wait (been planning to have a kitsune character) though what kind of kitsune stuff will be added?
 

Etis

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
2,500
258
Someone said "kitsune?" :)

I gave it a try, what can I say... First of all, we need a perk tree. Second, we need some info about how skills work, since it is unclear which one to use. Third, we need a perk tree.

Some notes:
- Magic bolt as an ability makes no sense. It is now useless. It was intended to be a basic attack for mages with all consequences - being able to benefit from perks, not consuming fatigue etc.
- My mage did more damage in melee than with magic in endgame.
- With how much we can build, some more cheap and reliable source of materials is required.
 

Kodoku

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2015
142
40
29
- Magic bolt as an ability makes no sense. It is now useless. It was intended to be a basic attack for mages with all consequences - being able to benefit from perks, not consuming fatigue etc.
I tried offering a compromise early by saying there should be a menu to switch between normal melee
@Ormael please add a menu in order switch between normal melee and magic bolt. Stick it in the perks menu
@Wicas Does placing Magic Bolt from having Staff Channeling was wrongly placed in magic specials? As now staff will always be staff hitting melee but with perk would be adding new m.special (always placed on first button in said submenu).

If you really want a perk tree... Give me a bit. I can try drawing it up but Ormeal will have to give me a list for the requirements for each perk. In the mean time I'm going to be duplicating one of my old saves and chop it up with the editor.
 

Zavos

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2016
2,429
1,313
30
Someone said "kitsune?" :)

I gave it a try, what can I say... First of all, we need a perk tree. Second, we need some info about how skills work, since it is unclear which one to use. Third, we need a perk tree.

Some notes:
- Magic bolt as an ability makes no sense. It is now useless. It was intended to be a basic attack for mages with all consequences - being able to benefit from perks, not consuming fatigue etc.
- My mage did more damage in melee than with magic in endgame.
- With how much we can build, some more cheap and reliable source of materials is required.
  • Foxfire gets added at 2 tails, gains power with more tails, you get a star sphere early and spending gems to empower it grants more foxfire power, and there is a line of equips that do absolutely nothing but empower foxfire/spell power. Foxfire is going to be less powerful than whitefire (which is going to be far more powerful than it currently is but with a cooldown), but can be raised to and above whitefire's power if you grab every bonus available. I assume that illusion/terrify will be added at nine tails. Corrupted foxfire looses most of its damage component but gains a lust component on par with arouse. At the end of the day, foxfire's main nitche is that it is more powerful than magic bolt and can be spammed, unlike whitefire. If you bring it up to whitefire's level, you'll effectively have a spell spam thats much more powerful then anything currently available.
  • Magic bolt is getting covered by the magic overhauls. Whitefire and Ice Spike are getting cooldowns, magic bolt is going to be made into the bread and butter, not unlike whitefire's current position. It might not be more powerful than spellsword attacks currently are, but it is meant to fit into a playstyle that is going to become far more worthwhile than it currently is. The jury is still out.
  • I've been nagging Ormael about materials for quite a while. We'll see how it turns out.
  • There is a perk tree for Xianxia. Racial stuffs are kept out of it for the most part, its a sort of you can grab them when you meet the criteria thing.
Keep in mind that we won't see magic revamp for a month or two. But Kitsune revamp should be done soon. Also, foxfire's numbers are likely going to change to adjust it to magic overhaul.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ormael

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
Heh Zevos beat me to most points.

@Etis Main trouble with M. Bot that it was range attack used with weapon in melee slot so I had to work on something to solve it. From current place M. Bolt is I can remove fatigue cost so it will not have amazing dmg but would be fatigueless m. special for all having staff and coresponding perk or buff it dmg so it will be more cost effective attack.

For abilities there will be more changes to them in build that will come out as one of firsts in 2017. For current next version kitsunes are sort of testing ground for changes to race related abilities and bonuses. Or was it due to fact Liadri worte to come with kitsune changes a kitsune girl npc that may become really personal as long PC reach quite high race score as kitsune. Who know where lay the truth.

@Wicas If you mean perk tree there is one that I now added to this post too. It's currently up to live version perk tree.
 

Attachments

  • Perk Tree.txt
    8.3 KB · Views: 18
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

Etis

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
2,500
258
@Etis Main trouble with M. Bot that it was range attack used with weapon in melee slot so I had to work on something to solve it. From current place M. Bolt is I can remove fatigue cost so it will not have amazing dmg but would be fatigueless m. special for all having staff and coresponding perk or buff it dmg so it will be more cost effective attack.
So, only warriors deserve to have one-button combat power? OOOkayyyy.

The point of perk was not even "ranged," but "basic." So, maybe remove "ranged"? Change it to be a contact attack, something like "during melee attacks manifests imaginary blade on the butt of your staff, dealing more than real damage with it." Or change staff slot once you take this perk? Since we already have enough specials.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok and Ormael

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
@Etis One-button combat power? Umm you refer to fact that even with costless m.bolt it would be still req. to press m. specials to pick m.bolt?

With perk PC can still smash enemy with staff manualy but that then just physicaly smashing enemy not using magic to shoot bolts. Or...umm you mean staff channeling would act as sort of additional charge weapon effect for PC staffs?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

Etis

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
2,500
258
@Etis One-button combat power? Umm you refer to fact that even with costless m.bolt it would be still req. to press m. specials to pick m.bolt?

With perk PC can still smash enemy with staff manualy but that then just physicaly smashing enemy not using magic to shoot bolts. Or...umm you mean staff channeling would act as sort of additional charge weapon effect for PC staffs?
As power, it would not benefit from any melee perks like the double attack. And would not grant fatigue recovery like basic attacks do. And yes, hiding the main attack into hierarchic is bad too.
Not exactly as charge weapon. It's not a bonus to stats or damage. The main effects of Staff Channeling are changing damage calculation to use intelligence instead of strength and granting armor piercing to staves. Also, it was giving some bonus from speed but in exchange for not getting damage bonuses from most melee perks aside of double strike.
 

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
@Shade of Zurn Staff with staff channeling perk bought getting large bonus to dmg when used as melee weapon under might effect or some other situation?

@Wicas Now tht picked my interest how it would looks finished the thing you working on atm.

@Etis Way the dmg for m.bolt dmg is counted in Revamp is slight odd for me. I mean I get puzzled how come high speed helps cast stronger magic bolt. Swinging staff faster may not increase speed of bolt itself...probably. So what I felt was that bolt dmg should be mianly affected by inteligence and spell power with other factors have smaller importance her compared to int/spell power.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok

Etis

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 26, 2015
2,500
258
@Etis Way the dmg for m.bolt dmg is counted in Revamp is slight odd for me. I mean I get puzzled how come high speed helps cast stronger magic bolt. Swinging staff faster may not increase speed of bolt itself...probably. So what I felt was that bolt dmg should be mianly affected by inteligence and spell power with other factors have smaller importance her compared to int/spell power.
Speed is also an accuracy in CoC. So it is more like better aiming, as for other ranged attacks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ormael

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,631
1,787
I can then use accuracy check from archery to m.bolt. Still the main thing is that I fele unese to move back m.bolt to melee slot if it range attack. And with it been melee range attack what point of accuracy as at point blank it would be miracle if PC miss the enemy with bolt :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agrok