Quick question: How do beards work?

[PyrateHyena]

Currently chewing on a tf-item and some questions came up:


Is it possible to have a beardType that is different from hairType?


Where in the code can I find the appearance screen descriptions for different beard types (y'know to use as examples)? EDIT: Some Github link would be largely appreciated.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

https://github.com/OXOIndustries/Trials-in-Tainted-Space/blob/master/classes/Creature.as#L4898 Here you go.

 

[PyrateHyena]

https://github.com/OXOIndustries/Trials-in-Tainted-Space/blob/master/classes/Creature.as#L4898 Here you go.

Thanks a lot for that.

[...] She is the entire beard system, essentially. She will lengthen, shorten, style, and color beards or all hair types, but I know a few things need to be finalized and implemented like how beards handle color independent of hair/fur color and establishing beard length thresholds (they're slightly different than head hair thresholds).

So beards will essentially work like hair with their own independant types, flags, color and styles, am I reading that correctly? Or is that all still figured_out/in_development/up_for_debate?

 

[PyrateHyena]

 Hair type will be shared across all non-fur hair as far as I'm aware [...]

Aw crap. There goes the first pillar... Gotta reimagine and rearrange some stuff to fix this. Is the moss beard that Cerespirin gives not independant from hairType?


EDIT: And why is beardType even specified as an independant type (code-wise), if it is the same as hairType? Or is that also going to be changed?

 

[PyrateHyena]

I just went and double checked this, and I was handing out misinformation myself.  The discussion I had with Jacques occurred before Cerespirin was implemented, but there is this:


(quote from Jacques)


So, if something changes your beard type, it will stay that type until you shave it off and regrow it (or use another TF to change it), which would involve going to Aislinn. Growing a beard when you don't have one will set the beard type to exactly the same thing as the hair type (if I'm understanding what Jacques meant theere). That's the tidbit I had misconstrued to mean that hair and beard types were always the same. They are different, but beard type is the same as hair type when a beard is not present. 


This means that things that change hair type do not automatically change beard type. I forgot that's what Jacques worked out because it means nothing that currently exists has to be changed.  

Thanks for your trouble xD

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

In my mind, beard lengthening of any kind should reset the style to "unstyled" because beards are a little different than hair, but I imagine that, for simplicity's sake, beards will work exactly like hair. It might seem a bit weird and arbitrary that the PC can take several doses of a beard growing-mod without their mustache changing until they hit the threshold for a "long" beard and suddenly grow hair all over their face because they exceeded the length maximum allowed for mustaches, but meh. 

Strangest thing about this is, the most potent options for changing hair length to whatever value the player wants (Ceria and the Goo Shift menu) already revert the style. The only reason I see for normal TFs working differently is to avoid kissing off the player by side effects messing with their ideal look too much. Thought with the way most TFs are, that concern doesn't really make that much sense...


Orh, and this ight be as good a time as any to once again thank you for working on a helpful feature that lies completely outside the range of your kinks and interests. :thumbsup:

 

[balitz Method]

This reminds me that, as far as I know, hair length of all types can only be changed by mods. Were there any plans in place for natural hair growth over time? It is a little strange and it does gate beards behind a transformative when, logically, guys of most species would probs. grow facial hair naturally over time.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

This reminds me that, as far as I know, hair length of all types can only be changed by mods. Were there any plans in place for natural hair growth over time? It is a little strange and it does gate beards behind a transformative when, logically, guys of most species would probs. grow facial hair naturally over time.

The Vastonian reasoning I stick to is tied to the fact that PC doesn't need to bother with sustenance, or pooping. So I just assume that it's a side effect of their micro-surgeons maintaining a constant and strict control over their bodily functions. The Doilist one - it would be useless stat tracking that will mess with people's desired appearance. And in Fen games it's considered SRS BSNS; unless the devs do it with TF RNG, that is.  

 

[PyrateHyena]

 because it's kind of a hassle

This.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

I feel that natural hair growth isn't included just because it's kind of a hassle. It's realistic, obviously, but all it would really do is force people to go back to Ceria (and Aislinn, when she's implemented) to get haircuts intermittently. That's not a huge inconvenience, but does sort of provoke a "but why though?" kind of thing. 

Edit: Got double ninjad :0 Damn.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

You've gotta get a real keyboard so you can type faster, Nik!  


I still don't know how you don't go insane... I'd come apart at the seams in a matter of hours. >_>

I've developed some mad leftclicking skills, and besides buying a keyboard won't be helpful for a while now that I've managed to cut like two thirds of the topmost phalanx on my left hand's point finger. Don't give an angle grinder to tired people is the moral here.

At least something is considered SRS BSNS 'round here. :smugdog:  

Plenty of things are taking very seriously around here, some of them even overlap with what you consider to be such .

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Wait, whaaaat? Please tell me you didn't cut it off, Nik! You just like... cut it bad, right? I know this is stupidly off-topic at the moment, but you didn't seriously fuck your hand up really badly, did you?! hdear:  

I did cut most of it off at an angle. Though both the older colleague that was helping me to bandage it, who had a similar injury and the doctor I've seen an hour ago told me that it will certainly grow back; worst case it will end up a little misshapen (but cool looking) and/or having less tactile perception. 


Probably shouldn't have mentioned it. Please don't worry about it, MP.


Back to the fascinating subject of hair?

 

[balitz Method]

I feel that natural hair growth isn't included just because it's kind of a hassle. It's realistic, obviously, but all it would really do is force people to go back to Ceria (and Aislinn, when she's implemented) to get haircuts intermittently. That's not a huge inconvenience, but does sort of provoke a "but why though?" kind of thing. 

I feel like that answers itself: so you have reason to go back and visit those places and people, for one, but also to get to a certain length without having to pay for things and/or get effects you don't necessarily want along with them. With Ceria for instance I vaguely remember that she wants you to buy something before chatting. That's a good bit of immersion but If you only ever need one haircut...


Plus if you do want to change up your length once in a while, for head hair or beards, you don't necessarily have to get a thousand dollar haircut.

 

[balitz Method]

There -are- plenty of things that can and should be ignored just because they don't serve the game in any real sense but with as much focus as there is on character tweaking it's surprising that this is the way it is. Letting hair grow out naturally just seems like a common sense way to get it to where you want it to be as it's kind of silly to rely on gene mods or expensive treatments for it and persistent growth justifies something like a hair salon. If people don't want to deal with it those places could easily provide an on/off treatment for all types of hair growth.


It's a sex game but it kind of annoys me when things are really obviously there for the player to hump without much in-universe or game mechanic justification for them (or when it's super obvious that certain systems, like beards, came later and aren't integrated in a common sense way). Not only is it kind of weird it's also inconvenient to need to use items for a PC to grow their hair or to even have the option of facial hair period.

 

[Jacques00]

Ultimately, it comes down to player choice and agency. If this was a life simulator game, then yes, growing hair would seem like a good feature to have. However, this is a fetish porn game with features that allow for player customization of their character, so the priority is not in auto-growing hair but on adventure... and lots and lots of sex.


Not all players would want their character's hair to auto-grow and some may want their character's hair a specific length, if they even want hair at all. Having that out of the box seems pretty inconvenient for players who want complete control over their character's look from the start. At the moment, there is only one semi auto-grow feature for hair, and that is the "Mane" perk from the Horse pill. For that perk, if the hair ever reaches below 3 inches, it will automatically grow back every midnight. That is to say, it isn't impossible to imagine this perk to be upgraded to grow hair constantly or have another mod, perk, or status effect implemented to auto-grow hair/beards/etc. It's just something that needs to be written and implemented--but most importantly it has to be a choice the player can make to have or not have the feature.


I personally think that unexpected/involuntary actions and events can be exciting to have in a fetish game, but from the more vocal portion of the audience, it is clear that players would rather have agency over their characters more than things they cannot control. So if we are to have involuntary features, it would be best to use them sparingly with obvious forewarning where applicable.


With all that said, do note that the game is not even out of "alpha" yet so several things are subject to change before the game reaches its 1.0 status.

 

[eveoflife]

I personally think that unexpected/involuntary actions and events can be exciting to have in a fetish game, but from the more vocal portion of the audience, it is clear that players would rather have agency over their characters more than things they cannot control. So if we are to have involuntary features, it would be best to use them sparingly with obvious forewarning where applicable.

That is pretty much how I feel. I like the surprises but my monster girl has a lot of "pain in the arse to reacquire" mods like quad tits and Lucifer Candy Apple specific nips & picks. So I prefer warning text of some sort and a "nope" button before a event thrusts something on me.

 

[balitz Method]

Yeah, I do agree with that in a general sense, but the exact logic of it seems backwards as it stands. After all we -don't- actually have a say in how long a character's hair is straight from the start; there are defaults and from there it can be changed - just not always in intuitive ways. From the perspective of a new player who's not scouring the forums or the wikis the process of something as simple as growing a beard for their male PC would be arcane. Growing hair has a clearer option but even then it's expensive and only has general benchmarks. If you were shooting for an exact length you'd have to go through some very non-intuitive transformative paths and that just gets inconvenient and silly.


Was the hair growth in CoC a sore spot? Just from the perspective of common sense easy-to-grasp mechanics I'd think that hair growth would be the most obvious way to handle this with the beauty salon offering an inexpensive option to shut it off (or turn it back on). From the perspective of control over your character we don't actually have a whole heck of a lot in this area and the control we do have requires esoteric knowledge and processes. It not being a priority I totally get but making everything logical is one of those steps in moving from a rough alpha where things are shoved in as they're thought of to a playable beta and then eventually a full release.

 

[Jacques00]

Yeah, I do agree with that in a general sense, but the exact logic of it seems backwards as it stands.

It's not really backwards, it's just a matter of priorities. Having too many side fluff content may distract from actual content relevant to the game itself (that whole adventure + sex bit). The intro is already long-winded enough given the text that has to be read and the options needed to be chosen before the starting of the adventure--way more than CoC--so I don't think a hair length option for starting helps or squeezes into the narrative flow very well. While I agree that hair growth is not very intuitive, that issue can easily be solved with the "adventure" part of the gameplay. The mini-map is not there just for fun--it is supposed to encourage the player to explore, and when the player stumbles upon a salon, then that's where all the hairy action takes place.

Was the hair growth in CoC a sore spot? Just from the perspective of common sense easy-to-grasp mechanics I'd think that hair growth would be the most obvious way to handle this with the beauty salon offering an inexpensive option to shut it off (or turn it back on).

Unless otherwise mentioned, I don't think the devs are really anti-auto hair growth. It's that no one has written such a thing and it is not really high priority to the overall development--that can be said about a lot of other features and minor events that may be "missing". Of the things that are written, they have yet to be reviewed, edited and/or approved before the coding process for them even starts.


But yes, I do think a beauty salon option to toggle hair/beard growth would be great for those who would want that, regardless if it is a feature that is enabled from the start. It could be introduced as an expensive, lore-friendly perk gain/upgrade, or just a simple free-of-cost toggle. It just needs to be written before it can be considered to be put in game. This stuff doesn't pop out of thin air! Things that should be considered when someone does write it is how will it function--like when the character experiences a hair transformation, does that disable the toggle? Do Kerokoras run around with self-growing afros? When and how often should the hair grow? How long should it grow/shrink? Are the limits adjustable? Will it be sexy? Will it have normal and fetishistic variants? Do bimbos and Mane perks get special treatment? What is the meaning of life? Stuff like that.

 

[Snusnu Schnitzel]

Yes, getting a beard right now is a completely ass-backwards process, but that's the entire reason I wanted to add another employee to Shear Beauty to handle them properly. Getting a beard right now is fairly pointless anyways, because there's no one in the game that can style them, color them, or really do anything with them at all, and most TF's don't really affect them.

To be honest this is nitpicking and I haven't tested this out myself, but Foxfire and Catnip both affects beards by changing them into sideburns. And on the topic of hair growth, I think Mysty has covered all the points I'm about to say. TiTS is a sex game first, not a life simulator. Trying to get specific hair length is just needless since descriptions wouldn't be changed. The only pro/con I can think of is that hair growth could indicate a passage of time and help player immersion but the cons are of course the inconvenience and lack of control players have over that. The best compromise is a toggle feature for hair growth but even then I don't see much of a point of that other than to add 'realism' and if we're going there we might as well look at other stuff that's also missing those mechanics.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

As for hair lengthening being expensive... It's not, really. Not in comparison to most other mods or player customization in the game. Whenever I make a new character, I need to save up around 12,000 credits in order to afford enough Sylvanol to get her where I want. I need like maybe 3,000 credits to get her hair to the proper length. Hair length and style are a part of the character customization process like any other, and TiTS makes players work to get their character where they want them to be. That's by design. 

While, yes, PC working up to their desired look seems to be one of TiTS' core ideas, the example you chose isn't the best. Sylvanol is certainly one of those few TF items that seems to be grossly overpriced for no easily justifiable reason.


For those same 3000 creds one can make a complete transformation into an ausar or a cowgirl. So my answer to whether or not I think that the prices in the Sheer Beauty would make more sense if lowered would be a definitive 'yes'.


That's the only thing in your post I don't agree, though.

Things that should be considered when someone does write it is how will it function--like when the character experiences a hair transformation, does that disable the toggle? Do Kerokoras run around with self-growing afros? When and how often should the hair grow? How long should it grow/shrink? Are the limits adjustable? Will it be sexy? Will it have normal and fetishistic variants? Do bimbos and Mane perks get special treatment? What is the meaning of life? Stuff like that.

This bit here once again confirms tha you are pretty much the main reason little mechanical titbits like that get considered, tied in and resolved in this game. Please never stop being awesome, Jacques dono.

 

[balitz Method]

Yeah, at the moment it's definitely an issue of priority. There's something in place and it works well enough at the moment, even if it's rough, that people can get there. Making sure the big systems are in place should come first. This is more of a "does this actually make any kind of sense?" issue that would be ironed out later. Functionality comes first and -then- it comes time to hash out the most intuitive way for everything to work and make adjustments to systems like these. After all by that time we could also have fancy things for nails in or any number of other things that would also be lumped in with a "stuff that would grow" system.

Friend, all you need to do is go to Ceria to grow out/shorten your hair. She's on Tavros, where you start the game, and is in a very obvious location for anyone that takes even a single minute to look around. She's available at all times. 


Getting to exact length values is absolutely pointless, because the only thing the appearance screen and parser describe when referencing the PC's hair are the benchmark hair lengths. No matter what the exact length of your hair is, it will only be described as whatever benchmark range it falls into, limited exclusively to: short, shoulder-length, long, back-length, ass-length, knee-length, and ankle-length. In this way, Ceria gives you absolute control of your hair. You cannot customize it in a meaningful way beyond the services Ceria provides except for mod-specific hair flags like mane or latex that are obtained from the associated TF's.


When Aislinn is implemented, the exact same level of control will be provided for beards in the exact same in-game location. Aislinn will allow the player to hit every beard length benchmark, including: stubble, short, medium, long, chest-length, and waist-length. Her services will be half the prices of Ceria's, too.


Yes, getting a beard right now is a completely ass-backwards process, but that's the entire reason I wanted to add another employee to Shear Beauty to handle them properly. Getting a beard right now is fairly pointless anyways, because there's no one in the game that can style them, color them, or really do anything with them at all, and most TF's don't really affect them.

What I'm saying is that this setup was a response to the fact that, before the salon, hair growth was also arcane. In a vacuum this measure is an odd one, too - it only makes sense in the context of "this is a low-priority issue for the dev team but players felt it was necessary to make the alpha playable". It still reeks of a band-aid rather than a fully realized and sensible game mechanic: why a hair salon if it's not designed to be something the player can return to over and over again? It -could- be added to character creation and, just like that, an entire shop is completely pointless except to house one more thing to wave your bits at. Typically the logic with hair salons is to incrementally give the player new customization options and encourage trying out lots of new things -or-, like in CoC, to offer a novel setting for scenes that also allow the player to control their hair that meshed with game mechanics. Because your hair grew you had reason to frequent the place and see everything. That's one thing in general that CoC did well but TiTS is a bit shaky on; when you have roleplaying or gameplay reasons to come back to these places it both gives them a solid reason to exist and makes the game feel less like the NPCs are a fetish on some giant checklist and more like a part of a believable world.


Beyond that the benchmarks are also p. broad - I think "short" is one inch and then the next benchmark is shoulder-length. That's actually a significant dead zone where masculine characters especially would have a hard time getting their hair right. Hair growing, say, an inch at a time over the course of 12 days or so would give the player more control without having to rely on a bunch of save scumming with transformatives. And say someone wanted to write actual scenes for haircuts and shaving that include flirting with the salon employees. Something like that would actually integrate their talk scenes into their service and make what's already there better while providing a solid reason for the player reason to come back for more.


Now you're looking to apply the same band-aid to fix beards but it is worth asking whether this current setup actually makes sense as a long-term solution specifically -because- someone's taking another look at it. It could actually be a good opportunity to look at whether a system to handle things like occasional growth would be worthwhile to code so that future ideas could also make use of it.  

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

...I don't really know why those TF's do that...

If I'm being honest, I think the price of everything is grossly over-inflated. Price reduction across the board would be nice...

One of the very few things that I'm hesitant about when it comes to the idea of a Hard Mode being made some day is closely related to that. If most prices will be left as is and the enemies will become hard enough to require more regular equipment upgrades, the player will have to choose between getting the avatar they want to 'see' during sexy-times and the one that will actually be able to adventure properly.

 

[Milkman]

If I'm being honest, I think the price of everything is grossly over-inflated. Price reduction across the board would be nice...

Price reduction would be nice... But Mysty, the fact that you never leave Mengha might be the real source of your credit issues... Mobs on later planets either drop more credits directly or drop items that can be sold for more credits. 


But yeah the salon should probably be one of those things that can cheaply be done even before leaving Tavros... 

 

[balitz Method]

That's another thing to consider. If we're content to let the hair salon stand as an extension of initial character creation that no one's expected to return to for any practical reasons once they've got their hair set up then the price should reflect what you have at the start rather than the credits you'll eventually have access to. It -is- okay to have a starting area with a few places that are specifically for the start of the game - to break up the length of the intro if nothing else - but if that's what they're going to be for then that's how they should operate. 

 

[shadefalcon]

That's another thing to consider. If we're content to let the hair salon stand as an extension of initial character creation that no one's expected to return to for any practical reasons once they've got their hair set up then the price should reflect what you have at the start rather than the credits you'll eventually have access to.

I agree with Misty, the hair salon is a place for when you later in the game want to see some changes to your character's hair. Either by having a TF changing your initial hair and want it back, or just wishing something different for a change.


Ceria is also a nice character to visit, and who doesn't love the sylvanol medipens?   


I'm looking forward to the addition of Aislinns facial treatments, which will make the place feel even more like a beauty salon, giving you the options to change several aspects of your appearance.


But enough about that back to bards.

 

[balitz Method]

Because maybe you want to reliably change your hair style, color, and/or length for whatever reason? Maybe you took a mod that did something to your hair that you don't like, and you want to undo it? Why are you assuming the only reason people will go to Shear Beauty is to set their hair to what they want and then never return? Ceria also sells unique mods, and her inventory expands as the player progresses through the game. That right there is a reason to visit Shear Beauty multiple times. Aislinn will be the same way. Aislinn is also going to offer facial services alongside her beard services, which will allow the PC to modify their femininity score, similar to what the Goblin Spa did with its facial treatments in CoC. Those treatments will not be spammable, and you'll have to make a few visits over a period of time in order to fully transition from a 100% masculine face to a 100% feminine face (or vice-versa).


There's plenty of reason to visit Shear Beauty without natural hair growth. Forcing people to go back there every whatever number of in-game days so they can put their hair back to the way they want it would hardly make it more appealing...

It's not set up to cater to that, though, that's what I'm getting at. Right now it has one and only one purpose: to address the fact that hair doesn't grow on its own and required a bunch of completely unrelated items to adjust. It's made to fix a pothole rather than to be a robust and sensible addition in its own right. If character creation addressed this there wouldn't be a need for the place to exist.


As I said hair salons are usually meant to be a customization playground and if you're going for that then you need to make it easily affordable to play around with (currently it's not) and include a bunch of options (currently it's a barebones "every 8 inches" threshold type of thing and flat color modifier rather than something that's detailed and fun to experiment with). There also aren't any sex scenes associated with it that use the specific flavor of the place the way there were in CoC. It's not fulfilling any of the niches that a salon would be good for in a character customization and sex game; it's a hotfix with an elf-fetish vagina attached.


Needing a reason to go back -is- important when the setting calls for it. Let's use Lane as an example. If you got a permanent stat boost from his/her hypnotism then why would you ever go back? You might say "to fuck Lane and see their plotline" but this is handwaving the fact that, as a setting, that hypnotism business is built around the idea that the character would have an in-universe and/or gameplay reason to come back. Hair salons are also a business like that. So what I'm saying is that it either needs to be a big, cheap playground to facilitate that -or- there needs to be something like hair growth to justify it. Hair growth also comes with a helpful way to fine-tune (you may not think it's important but you can fine tune everything else and you don't know what others may want) and can be easily toggled on and off at the hair salon.


Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[Jacques00]

It's made to fix a pothole rather than to be a robust and sensible addition in its own right. If character creation addressed this there wouldn't be a need for the place to exist.

I get what you are saying but I think you are missing the point of the salon and why it was written. It is supposed to be a service center and shop that serves as an extension to character customization--it's not really about covering for a feature plot hole as you are assuming and to think that is to intentionally downplay the significance of it. When you play Saints Row and go into the in-game hair salon, it's to access a part of the character customization, not to cut unwanted hair that has grown over time.


Although I think it is perfectly fine to hand-wave the hair length in character creation, if hair customization were jammed into the character creation portion of a new game, then please write it and get it approved by the devs. Similarly, if you want hair growth features, please write it up or pay someone to write it up, then wait for the devs to critique and approve or reject it.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

If someone wants to write talk scenes for my characters, they can fuck right off.

Here, corrected this for you. Most writers around here don't have an aversion to others touching their work as strong as yours, Mysty. So if someone were to approach one of them and ask for a permission to write a scene involving one of that author's characters, they would at least consider the possibility based on the nature of the scene and the quality of the writing.


And than there are all those poor abandonware characters...

Ceria's "short" cut sets hair length to two inches, and "shoulder-length" sets it to eight inches. So you've got six inches between those two. There's probably room for "medium" in between "short" and "shoulder-length," but it's a pretty minor thing at best.


As a side note, this is why using exact number values just causes problems. Generally vague and relative descriptions that allow the player some imagination leeway are much, much better than forcing writers to accommodate exact values. 


Just google "short hair" and look at the images to see all the different interpretations of "short." If TiTS didn't apply a stupid hard-number value to that benchmark, it could be whatever length the player wanted it to be that fit the general idea of "short." But instead, we have hard numbers, and that fucks everything up. Just ignore the numbers. 

So in your opinion, it would be better to stop measuring the hair length stat in inches and just make it change between the same number of values as we currently have benchmarks (which would be eight, btw, since baldness is also a thing)? Sounds like a decent idea, although it will necessitate making the hair length changes more drastic on every item and event that deals with it.

It -could- be added to character creation and, just like that, an entire shop is completely pointless except to house one more thing to wave your bits at. Typically the logic with hair salons is to incrementally give the player new customization options and encourage trying out lots of new things -or-, like in CoC, to offer a novel setting for scenes that also allow the player to control their hair that meshed with game mechanics. Because your hair grew you had reason to frequent the place and see everything. That's one thing in general that CoC did well but TiTS is a bit shaky on; when you have roleplaying or gameplay reasons to come back to these places it both gives them a solid reason to exist and makes the game feel less like the NPCs are a fetish on some giant checklist and more like a part of a believable world.


...


If character creation addressed this there wouldn't be a need for the place to exist.


...


This same argument repeated ad nauseam.

You are missing two very major aspects here. 


First off, at least a third of Fen game's playerbase has either the TF and/ orthe sex change fetish. For those people, the starting appearance of their character is quite often only important as a point to measure the their PC has undergone against. Some people even continue to try out new things and never settle on one particular look, imagine that.


Secondly, the current list of hair change options gives the player the ability to change every aspect of their hair that is guaranteed to be compatible with all of the current and potential hair types. Hell, styling is already inapplicable to more than half of the existing hair types.


Actually, different hair types make the idea of hair growth over time even more fiddly, because the speed of that growth would have to be tracked as a status effect variable and get changed significantly every time the hair type would change.

What do you want Ceria to do, suck you off in the middle of the store while you get a perm? That's not something that would work in TiTS. Nudity is banned in Tavros, and Shear Beauty is a business open to the public. Ceria sneaking into the break room to have some sexy times is using the specific flavor of the place. I have the tail end of Aislinn's sex scenes mention how the PC feels a little exhilarated when they're out in the lobby and talking to Ceria after the fact, because the knowledge that they were just fucking her co-worker in the other room in the middle of the work day adds to the lewdness of the whole thing.


(Sidenote: this is why I sort of have a problem with some of Sera's sex scenes and the fact that she literally has her tits and cock hanging out at all times. That's a CoC-style design, not a TiTS-style design.)

Actually, the interior of any store might not be considered 'public space'. So the reason Ceria (and most other NPC's on Tavros) doesn't have any outright exhibitionism content probably has more to do with her character. Which is still a perfectly valid reason, mind you.


Alternatively, only the interior of definitive adults only places might be exempt. UGC laws are supposed to be somehwat lax, convoluted and weird.

 

[PyrateHyena]

Stop with the drama, already! I know that drama is your fetish, but geez! These are just oponions, delicious and not here to hurt anyone. I am all for discussion of hair (and beard) growth, but balitz is not stupid. Oponions simply differ, and that is fine as long as you are listening to each other, which you seem to do. Problem here is acceptance, because natural hair growth does not really fit the current style of TiTS as well. I am not here to judge, these are just my two cents.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Stop with the drama, already! I know that drama is your fetish, but geez! These are just oponions, delicious and not here to hurt anyone. I am all for discussion of hair (and beard) growth, but balitz is not stupid. Oponions simply differ, and that is fine as long as you are listening to each other, which you seem to do. Problem here is acceptance, because natural hair growth does not really fit the current style of TiTS as well. I am not here to judge, these are just my two cents.

I'm gonna assume that you mean either MP or me, because Jacques' comments were, just like always, as far removed from any sort of "forum drama" as possible.


In which case, the amount of vitriol and emotionally charged responses might have gone just slightly past the point of completely civil discussion, but it's at least somewhat justified by balitz's surprising insistence on repeating their position without adding or qualifying anything, or addressing the opposing points in any meaningful way.