Looking for developers that would like to make a game on my new engine soon!
- Thread starter Sadtaco
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I know it's not what the OP asked but wanted to add a point here, about PR, maybe is a waste maybe not, but knew of a FA game which devs needed to finally hire a PR because was too much work and ended kinda... well, kinda exhausted.
People didn't like the padding that was originally there. They wanted more space for the boxes so I moved things around to achieve that. There is really little reason to have a lot of gap separating parameters. Most of the interface does still have padding.
A lot of that is just really just a matter of opinion.
I'd argue against coloring the boxes blue like that, because what does the blue even mean? Unreal Engine 4, Hammer 2, and many others are a pretty monotone grey for all those things just the same, so it seems odd to single that out and say it looks bad when it looks so similar to them.
Instead, I have color where it's important, and doing that helps differentiate it and make it clear that color is used for an important reason.
There's also something I think is a clear negative to your proposal, that you can not longer see nesting of the scenes inside scenarios and other things when you take away the padding.
But I could use alternating tone instead of border+padding. There could definitely be some sort of improvement there with so many things nested.
And since it's all open source on the web, people can theme the tool if they wish to, which they can't do with those others.
There are certainly things I could improve, and I'm going to. But saying it's ugly compared to other tools seems like a stretch
And I did already change a few things you pointed out using that screenshot off the blog... Like the padding at the top, the constructor function box being squished, and you can now expand each grouping of functions to be as wide as the whole box instead of them being 2 side by side whenever you want. You can see all those changes on the tryout app.
No, I was actually curious how those other editors look better... How do I ask the same question with seeming condescending?
kek. Here's 3 examples from the thread you unnessisarily linked to when nothing was wrong here or in the other threads. http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showpost.php?p=783428&postcount=17 http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showpost.php?p=785015&postcount=27 http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showpost.php?p=785256&postcount=37
You clearly didn't read many posts, including your own, telling me what to do and being aggressive and demanding, not simply giving feedback, as well as some people flat out trolling like Tabris666. Somehow you don't get how argumentative and absurd it it is to say I'm impossible to work with because I won't change a logo immediately to your liking. That's NOT simply giving feedback like some others here are doing.
And frankly it seems like you've been being a dick toward me and trying to stir the pot for months since I declined hiring you to do PR. Now you go around creating PR issues and saying that's my problem and what I get for not spending money I don't have on it. And if other people don't see that, just oh well, I really don't care, but there it is.
Sure. Eventually. I've said that. Obviously I don't want to handle market and PR and it's a waste of my time when I should be programming instead. But at this point, there's not much of that to do, especially when I'm simply letting others know they could possibly use the engine and what it can do.
People were basically getting offended that it's not all inclusive and not for them. There's not much I can do about that besides, what, lie?
I'm also not asking for money or anything here. I'm giving money. That's the opposite of a business.
A lot of that is just really just a matter of opinion.
I'd argue against coloring the boxes blue like that, because what does the blue even mean? Unreal Engine 4, Hammer 2, and many others are a pretty monotone grey for all those things just the same, so it seems odd to single that out and say it looks bad when it looks so similar to them.
Instead, I have color where it's important, and doing that helps differentiate it and make it clear that color is used for an important reason.
There's also something I think is a clear negative to your proposal, that you can not longer see nesting of the scenes inside scenarios and other things when you take away the padding.
But I could use alternating tone instead of border+padding. There could definitely be some sort of improvement there with so many things nested.
And since it's all open source on the web, people can theme the tool if they wish to, which they can't do with those others.
There are certainly things I could improve, and I'm going to. But saying it's ugly compared to other tools seems like a stretch
And I did already change a few things you pointed out using that screenshot off the blog... Like the padding at the top, the constructor function box being squished, and you can now expand each grouping of functions to be as wide as the whole box instead of them being 2 side by side whenever you want. You can see all those changes on the tryout app.
No, I was actually curious how those other editors look better... How do I ask the same question with seeming condescending?
kek. Here's 3 examples from the thread you unnessisarily linked to when nothing was wrong here or in the other threads. http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showpost.php?p=783428&postcount=17 http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showpost.php?p=785015&postcount=27 http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showpost.php?p=785256&postcount=37
You clearly didn't read many posts, including your own, telling me what to do and being aggressive and demanding, not simply giving feedback, as well as some people flat out trolling like Tabris666. Somehow you don't get how argumentative and absurd it it is to say I'm impossible to work with because I won't change a logo immediately to your liking. That's NOT simply giving feedback like some others here are doing.
And frankly it seems like you've been being a dick toward me and trying to stir the pot for months since I declined hiring you to do PR. Now you go around creating PR issues and saying that's my problem and what I get for not spending money I don't have on it. And if other people don't see that, just oh well, I really don't care, but there it is.
Sure. Eventually. I've said that. Obviously I don't want to handle market and PR and it's a waste of my time when I should be programming instead. But at this point, there's not much of that to do, especially when I'm simply letting others know they could possibly use the engine and what it can do.
People were basically getting offended that it's not all inclusive and not for them. There's not much I can do about that besides, what, lie?
I'm also not asking for money or anything here. I'm giving money. That's the opposite of a business.
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Your inability to realize you are rubbing people the wrong way is hurting your cause, the lack of understanding of helpful criticism is another. This has been pointed out time and time again both on these forums and the other. They're trying to help you but from what I can tell from your posts you think you know better and from the way you are wording your posts think everyone else is wrong and you are the only one who's right. I'm sorry to say but that's quite self-centered, self-important and quite narcissistic.
If you don't like this view point and I'm being quite blunt about it but this is a reality check cupcake and if you can't handle it then that there is a personal issue you need to resolve.
If you don't like this view point and I'm being quite blunt about it but this is a reality check cupcake and if you can't handle it then that there is a personal issue you need to resolve.
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wtf?
I responded overall positively to someone that took the time to give their feedback on something but I'm a narcissist because I disagree on some of it and gave my position? There's tons of people that'd disagree, including those whose feedback I originally listened to. But what, I'm just not allowed to give my counter point? Are you sure you actually read it?
And I ask someone how I can word what I asked without coming off as condescending or whatever, and that's your response?
I responded overall positively to someone that took the time to give their feedback on something but I'm a narcissist because I disagree on some of it and gave my position? There's tons of people that'd disagree, including those whose feedback I originally listened to. But what, I'm just not allowed to give my counter point? Are you sure you actually read it?
And I ask someone how I can word what I asked without coming off as condescending or whatever, and that's your response?
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This and the corresponding thread on ulmf are my new favorite threads. I'm checking these for new posts even more often than the ones about my game.
I did. Multiple times. Sorry, but I don't see it. I see some misconceptions that I clarified. I see some questions that I answered. I see some concerns I either tried to lay to rest or explained why they're that way. I don't really see a problem there and everything seemed to resolve pretty amicably. I just responded as clearly as concisely as I can and didn't realize there was any sort of problem or animosity going on besides someone making up that it's super buggy, up until HentaiWriter's post at least.
If you think I caused this animosity, uh, yeah, as others have said, you should check the earlier posts in this thread and the ULMF ones; I came in to give you advice because you were getting absolutely torn apart by multiple people in both threads, and I was trying to help you out, but like so many others, you just took what I said and assumed it was trolling (or whatever else besides legitimate advice).
It's not me starting up the animosity, it's you, man. You really need to have like a friend or family member look at these posts if you don't see why people are angry, or even better, someone who does business in the media industry to have them show you why your responses are causing animosity, and how to fix it, because like it or not, if you're trying to collaborate with others on a project that you want EVENTUALLY to make money, you're in business, and you gotta treat it as one, regardless of the money spent or not spent.
Take another look at the first post by vvalpas (link). He asked about multiple developers editing files simultaneously. It's a legitimate question with many possible answers, such as:
- the Creightr system automatically locks the file until the first developer has Saved or Discarded his changes
- the Creightr frontend allows simultaneous editing, but presents a big angry red warning sign so that developers are aware of the risk
- the Creightr web interface includes a built-in Chat applet so that the development team can coordinate their efforts
- the Creightr system stores each revision of source code or game assets (images, sounds, XML, etc) in a Wiki-style backend repository. Both developers can save their changes and the team will have access to both of the edited versions; they may need to compare and merge the files later on.
- edits made via the Creightr web interface do not "go live" immediately. The devteam will have an opportunity to spot the conflict before it gets published.
- "I don't know. We haven't encountered that problem yet because most of the Creightr projects to-date involve solo programmers."
You seem to have interpreted the question so that it involved casual user-level access to the database (e.g. two players simultaneously defeating a monster and incrementing their XP values, or two players attempting to download a map file simultaneously). Your response indicated that you felt the question was silly. Under your interpretation, it was silly. No serious programmer would build a system like Creightr without accounting for usage scenarios involving concurrent client sessions.
But there's a problem: your response violated the Principle of Charity.
- this is an inefficient communication technique, because your interlocutor is forced to restate his original argument ("I was asking about simultaneous changes to the source code") and then wait for another response. It's much faster to interpret the question in a way which maximizes its merit, and then answer it as such.
- by answering the "stupid version" of a question, you give readers the impression that you think your interlocutor is stupid enough to ask that question. People may decide that you're rude, unhelpful, condescending, etc...
PR Tip: If you're forced to answer a "stupid question", try to start your answer with a "Yes" rather than a "No". Even if you think that your interlocutor is an idiot, acknowledge his question and then take the opportunity to educate him. Noblesse oblige.
"It's true that simultaneous requests to a computer can potentially lead to data-corruption errors or timeout problems, especially if the software wasn't written to handle multiple clients. Fortunately, Creightr was designed from day one to deal with thousands of simultaneous users, and it has been extensively stress-tested. Games hosted on the Creightr platform will not crash due to synchronized users activity, and your play session will not be interrupted. If the server is heavily overburdened, then you may notice a temporary increase in latency - your game will become less responsive."
Well yeah... no serious programmer would have things work in such a way that it makes those problems. So it feels weird that someone would come to the assumption that there would be those sorts of issues.
I get what you're saying, but I framed it as a question because I was genuinely curious why someone would come to the conclusion that there would be those sorts of problems with the wealth of other problems I've solved.
I can see how those come off as condescending, but your way to answer doesn't actually ask what I was asking. They're just a totally different statement, while I actually had a question.
Like, it's weird that someone would solve all these new problems, but have super basic 20 year old problems not solved as well. It would seem really weird to try to be offer something that offers extremely good performance and that I would be able to offer for free to people if just a few dozen people playing on it is going to make it lock up, right?
I was actually curious if there is something with the material on the site that makes things come across in an amateur or inexperienced way. I thought I had it fairly polished and a lot of things on how it works explained.
Like in my shoes, I don't understand that sort of perspective when I'm looking at some other software service. I'm asking to try and understand it so I can be ensure it doesn't come off that way to others, you know? To me, it seemed like there was something wrong if I'm getting those questions to begin with and I wanted to see if there is something I can fix there.
I mean I guess I can make it more clear using 4 paragraphs like that instead of some short phrases, but people don't usually read long things and were getting pissed at me for writing too much in the other thread, you know.
And that doesn't really explain all the other responses where I did directly answer people's questions/concerns in that manner, I think. It's just in the case with those questions, I was asking a question back because I actually was looking for an answer and didn't mean to be conscending. But HentaiWriter says I was being torn into in all the other ones as well.
I get what you're saying, but I framed it as a question because I was genuinely curious why someone would come to the conclusion that there would be those sorts of problems with the wealth of other problems I've solved.
I can see how those come off as condescending, but your way to answer doesn't actually ask what I was asking. They're just a totally different statement, while I actually had a question.
Like, it's weird that someone would solve all these new problems, but have super basic 20 year old problems not solved as well. It would seem really weird to try to be offer something that offers extremely good performance and that I would be able to offer for free to people if just a few dozen people playing on it is going to make it lock up, right?
I was actually curious if there is something with the material on the site that makes things come across in an amateur or inexperienced way. I thought I had it fairly polished and a lot of things on how it works explained.
Like in my shoes, I don't understand that sort of perspective when I'm looking at some other software service. I'm asking to try and understand it so I can be ensure it doesn't come off that way to others, you know? To me, it seemed like there was something wrong if I'm getting those questions to begin with and I wanted to see if there is something I can fix there.
I mean I guess I can make it more clear using 4 paragraphs like that instead of some short phrases, but people don't usually read long things and were getting pissed at me for writing too much in the other thread, you know.
And that doesn't really explain all the other responses where I did directly answer people's questions/concerns in that manner, I think. It's just in the case with those questions, I was asking a question back because I actually was looking for an answer and didn't mean to be conscending. But HentaiWriter says I was being torn into in all the other ones as well.
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vvalpas did not express doubt about Creightr's ability to support multiple players. He asked about multiple developers, because you explicitly said that you weren't using a Git/SVN approach (but you didn't explain which system you were using in order to deal with concurrent or contradictory edits to the source code).
He wasn't accusing you of being an amateur. He was asking a legitimate technical question.
You interpreted it as a stupid question ("what if two players do stuff at the same time?"), and answered it. Upon seeing such a response, it's possible that someone would restate the question more clearly. But it's also possible that they'll interpret your response as an evasion of their question (or a simple insult) and end the conversation.
↓↓ EXAMPLE ↓↓
"Conscending", huh. Did you learn English as a second language?
↑↑ EXAMPLE ↑↑
Questions have emotional value. Even if you're honestly curious about something, a poorly-worded query can easily offend someone. My example question could be an honest inquiry about your nationality (note: it isn't a serious question; your identity is none of my business). But a reader would probably say "Stuntcock saw a simple typo and used it to imply that Sadtaco is illiterate. Stuntcock is an abusive asshole."
Similarly: "why would you make two disk reads for the same file?" This could be taken as an honest inquiry about cache limits, session security policies, and edge-case server behaviour. But a reader would probably say "Sadtaco misunderstood a question and used it to imply that vvalpas knows nothing about databases. Sadtaco is a condescending jerk."
P.S. the original question from vvalpas (re: concurrent source-code editing by multiple developers) still doesn't have a clear answer in this thread.
