Your least-liked Companion?

[Nuin]

Content blacklist? Could you shed some context here, I'm fairly new to the scene behind the games, and so I've little idea what was going on back in the CoC1 days.

Incest, for one. There was a huge uproar regarding Savin's character Helia and her child "Heliaspawn" (you could name her yourself, like with Aileh and Freja, another homage on that btw). Seemingly many players demanded Heliaspawn to be sexable which, as already said, was absolute non-negotiable content for the admins - and for good reason. The fallout wasn't pretty as far as I know.

I didn't witness those days myself, for I discovered CoC around ~4 years or so, but you can still read bits and pieces adressing the matter here in the forums or in comments in the blog if you search thoroughly for it.
That's at least as far as I know about that, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Acharehnus]

eternal saltmine of tears for every CoC 1 player wishing for things on the content blacklist.

That'd be weird, there's already incest in the den that you take part in. If you want blood related to you incest then play TiTs.

The den just feels odd to me because of the you're always an outsider vibe which just doesn't feel real to me. You don't usually need to go as far as marrying and selling off your soul to find a community within a group of people the fact that you do that and still don't find one is weird.

I went there to make my kitsune character and then I'm like, well if ya'll don't want me here I'm off to Lumia's palace then. Just a subjective feeling I get from it.

 

[Nuin]

That'd be weird, there's already incest in the den that you take part in. If you want blood related to you incest then play TiTs.

Either I'm misreading right now the meaning of what you wrote (what might totally be possible as english is not my native language) or you're horribly misinterpret the intent of my post.

To clarify: I never would want content in that regard and don't swing that way. I just flatly stated one of the reasonings behind Kiyoko's implementation and why there might never be an interest to change things regarding the way players are able to access her content. Or even more importantly implement a different way to obtain her as a companion… something which I and many other players would very much like.

If I misinterpreted your post I'm sorry.

 

[Acharehnus]

Oh no, it's not accusatory, just a statement. Making content to spite people would be really odd.

But I guess making a group of intentionally permenantly alienating characters is also odd so it's possible.

 

[zagzig]

It's probably something that should have been handled a long time ago, given how divisive Kiyoko is as a character and always has been. Considering how polls like this one, the other poll, and the general consensus just looking around at posts here and elsewhere goes, half the players like her, half the players don't. It strikes me as poor development attitude to have ignored the half that don't like her until it reaches a point like it has now, where even if they decide they want to do something about it there may be too much content to potentially modify for the new variable of not wanting to become her pet husband just to get her as a companion.

There's no 'may' about it, unfortunately. Consider every bit of Kiyoko content in the game, as well as every scene that even mentions her. Now imagine the writers going back and adding a variant every time Kiyoko is mentioned, allowing for the possibility that champ and Kiyoko have a platonic relationship and/or Kinu doesn't exist.

Yes, it was a mistake to gate a companion (one of the most popular or the most popular companion, depending on the poll) behind sex and a relationship, but at this point it's a mistake that's baked into the game because there's really nothing they can do about it aside from removing Kiyoko from the companion roster completely.

 

[Sacremas]

Completely off topic so left in a spoiler, these are not the only ones but the ones that came to mind, but here's the existing incest content in this game right now;

Spoiler

In the Den, the Kurokawa Sisters Miko and Mai will have sex with each other in some of the threesome scenes, with indications it's not the first one, same author as Kiyoko and Kinu.

Liresh and Syrish at tthe Leothran village are very obviously quite close, the femcat even having had a cast made of the dickcat's alchemy-added dick which Cait can enjoy in your threesome-foursome.

Anything involving Hornet on Hornet are incest, from his siblings lining up for a turn with the defeated prince, including claiming his anal virginity if the player don't take it, threesomes with Azzyran and the Queen, and if you bring Azzyran with you and run into the new Hornet patrols in the Old Forest and sex them.

Brienne and Rina can easily end up in bed together, including Rina dominating her brother-cum-sister.

And while it's only a mention, Hretha mentions that not even Arona could keep her hands off her sister's tits, so nice are they.

So there's plenty of incest in the game already, and to claim that Kiyoko and Kinu are in any way a finger in the face of those who liked that is just patently absurd. Rather I highly suspect Tobs just quickly added in the instant engagement to Kinu to prevent that from being a potential issue of Champ-blood-related incest and people bugging him for a Kinu romance, which might thread more directly on the line, as opposed to NPCs in arguably out of the way locations doing it in one-off scenes and mentions.

 

[zagzig]

Yeah, the incest restrictions at this point seem to be that any parent/child stuff is straight out (hornets notwithstanding because hornets are weird). Meanwhile, sibling or cousin stuff can be done quietly, just don't shout it from the rooftops. Because if [payment service provider] has to come over here there will be trouble. Consider that with Brihaus, Bri and Rina can end up together but there's seemingly a firewall separating them from interaction with Cassia in that way. Also, the one big content removal that happened relatively recently was in TiTS where you could bone your dragon kids.

If it seems arbitrary and nebulous, that's because it probably is.

 

[WolframL]

So there's plenty of incest in the game already, and to claim that Kiyoko and Kinu are in any way a finger in the face of those who liked that is just patently absurd.

Except that is literally what Tobs said, and you can see him bringing up the exact same points about why all the people who wanted Helspawn incest can go fuck themselves two years before CoC2 was announced (also like he says in the first post I linked to) so at this point you either accept that Tobs meant what he said about why Kinu is written the way she is and that she was planned to be that way from the start, or you call him a liar. And the evidence isn't in your favor.

 

[zagzig]

I've always been a bit skeptical of the argument that writing for Kiyoko and Kinu is fuelled entirely by spite (if only because that seems like a really unhealthy way to live for the better part of the last decade), but personally I think the decision to not include champ/Kinu incest holds up regardless.

 

[Sacremas]

Fine, sorry for giving Tobs the benefit of the doubt I guess.

Also, I changed my mind, Agni is fine, Kiyoko is the worst companion in this game. Because I just realized when I was thinking over that content I have never really bothered reading more than 1/3rd of that content. Tobs is a decent writer and I enjoyed every angle of Hethia's content and I love the Convocation of Mirrors and a lot of the other stuff but I just automatically nope out every single time and skip huge swaths of any Kitsune content. And if that's not a judgement on that content for me, I don't know what is.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

One would think that if someone found those requests so annoying, they'd just ignore them. Making such a massive contribution purely out of spite and irritation is incredibly irrational and petty, not to mention unhealthy for themselves since it's just going to cause the irritating factors to remain constantly at the forefront of their mind and lead to continued mental turmoil for years on end.

Quite the unfortunate course of action.

 

[Acharehnus]

Yeah I guess I was coming at it from the perspective that all incest is bad. So it felt odd that some would be in and Kinu and Kiyoku would be written specifically to make the statement "Some incest is good and some is bad"

That's...weird. Maybe just don't have any at all and don't try to write characters to spite theroetical head canons?

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

can go fuck themselves

Holy shit, I had not clicked any of the links previously.

Hopefully they've matured quite a bit since then, because wow. Only trolling they're doing talking like that is to themselves.

 

[redlightnin55]

Oh boy... Yeah. What an attitude to have. I kept thinking "maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture" for most of the posts I've dug up on my own by Tobs, trying to understand or even see the best in his mannerisms. But even that far back he still acted like that? Wow.

Then again it's probably on me. I don't know why I was expecting so much decorum from a porn forum.

And to learn that he really did write Kiyoko and Kinu out of spite is... Well, it's just petulant and sad. More than anything it makes me pity him for hanging onto that negativity so tightly. Damn, dude... That's straight up depressing to think about so I'm moving on.

 

[Ireyon]

Except that is literally what Tobs said, and you can see him bringing up the exact same points about why all the people who wanted Helspawn incest can go fuck themselves two years before CoC2 was announced (also like he says in the first post I linked to) so at this point you either accept that Tobs meant what he said about why Kinu is written the way she is and that she was planned to be that way from the start, or you call him a liar. And the evidence isn't in your favor.

Ignoring Tob's antics (yes, that was dickish but no one should just demand he write stuff for someone else) isn't there also the fact that patreon might kick Savin off if the game involves players screwing their hypothetical spawns?

I thought that I'd read a post about that somewhere.

(Also Tob's logic is really wonky. He can't mind salt by denying people something he wouldn't be allowed to offer anyway since incest is on the banlist.)

 

[Freak]

Believing that Kiyoko and Kinu is a pure spite project is blowing that comment waaay out of proportion and is such a bad take that I actually made an account

There's a big difference between "I always planned to fuck with people who are into parent/child incest with these characters" and "These characters only exist to fuck with people"

I've only played the fancy fox Kinu route so far and it's clear that there's a lot of content meant to needle people who feel sexually possessive of her, especially the way she gets with a guy that you're clearly not supposed to like and he apparently told the artist for the bust to make her bust (cough) as sexy as possible haha.

But that doesn't make the whole story a spite project. Your daughter getting with a pretty boy that you don't like and that getting under your skin is real shit and I think is good writing, even if it could definitely use some better pacing. The fact that it also will drive the people who feel sexually possessive of Kinu absolutely insane is just the delicious gravy tears on top. I think he does a good job showing how it's not just you and Nakano that are struggling with [the bad blood between you and Nakano] but Kinu is too, it's an interesting story that isn't all sunshine and roses.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of the characters but if y'all really believe all the time they spent writing it was spent in pure, hateful spite y'all need to touch some grass

[Edited for clarity]

 

[Equivocate]

Ignoring Tob's antics (yes, that was dickish but no one should just demand he write stuff for someone else) isn't there also the fact that patreon might kick Savin off if the game involves players screwing their hypothetical spawns?

I thought that I'd read a post about that somewhere.

(Also Tob's logic is really wonky. He can't mind salt by denying people something he wouldn't be allowed to offer anyway since incest is on the banlist.)

Yeah, incest in these games seems pretty weird and inconsistent depending on the writers.
Take Wsan for instance, it seems that he is writing it so that Cassia won't appear in sex scenes with Brienne and Rina, yet Azyrran and Nyzerrah appear in sex scenes together (written by SKoW). Not sure if that means that SKoW will also write sex scenes with Atani and Naiyana together, considering those are also her characters.

Guess the rule really is that the PC cannot appear in scenes with their offspring - although that rule doesn't appear to be true for the NPCs that the devs write (oh, and guess it looks like sibling incest is completely 100% a-ok, not sure about the Kiro x Kally change in TiTS though).

As to TObs' reasoning - he's mining salt by, at least in his understanding, seemingly taunting those that potentially wanted Helspawn incest, which is a route which still has hooks in the original CoC game, despite the quote from Savin saying that he would get those removed.
Doubt TObs had any intention to actually do Kinu incest to begin with, but her and Cassidy from FoE appear to literally be a direct middle finger to the people that wished for Savin to see that content through, by making judgements about the players of CoC in the form of Cassidy, and taunting with the never-to-be-actualized possibility in the form of Kinu.

In the end, as people have already stated, just comes across as pretty bitter - and a bit weird that he seems (and possibly still seems) to be more pressed about it than Savin is.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

There's a big difference between "I always planned to fuck with people who are into parent/child incest with these characters" and "These characters only exist to fuck with people"

Considering how much of a asshole they seemed to conduct themselves as back then(I have no idea what they're like now), I'm somewhat surprised you'd even bother to try and make this distinction. Common sense dictates that having pure spite and a desire to piss people off as a major motivating factor of any capacity behind a project to be a pitiable and honestly pathetic way to conduct yourself.

I'm also going to just leave this one easy trick for the next time you want to try and put people down at the end of a post or whatever.

If you're a longtime lurker of a forum for a niche porn game who just finally created an account for the sole purpose of splitting hairs over the specifics of blatantly unhealthy behavior, I'd strongly recommend sticking to any insult that isn't trying to say someone else spends too much time out of the sun.

Because when it comes down to it the public eye would consider us all in the same ballpark of degenerate, so saying shit like that just makes you look like you're an idiot who can only cling to empty little trend terms.

 

[Acharehnus]

I've only played the fancy fox Kinu route so far and it's clear that there's a lot of content meant to needle people who feel sexually possessive of her, especially the way she gets with a guy that you're clearly not supposed to like and he apparently told the artist for the bust to make her bust (cough) as sexy as possible haha.

Is this post meant to be defending him...? (because...that's really weird. So he's not opposed to incest on principle because there is some incest and...he has no problem trying to bait people into it...but he get's angry if you head cannon or request incest....what's going on?) Really they should just have a hard stance on it. Get rid of it all, it's not necessary.

I've also had a post linked of his saying that the constant alienation even when soulbound is deliberate...which I really don't get. You make a community like that that player actions can't affect, what reaction do you want from the player?

Sure you successfully conveyed that feeling and thus the player avoids the content...Mission accomplished?

Or are there people out there with a fetish for feeling like an unwanted tourist among people they've married and changed their physical and spiritual selves to be a part of?

 

[Nuin]

I've also had a post linked of his saying that the constant alienation even when soulbound is deliberate...which I really don't get. You make a community like that that player actions can't affect, what reaction do you want from the player?

To be frank, the alienation and sometimes passive-aggressiveness of the Kitsune is exactly the kind of treatment you get as a foreigner, a gaijin living alongside natives in Japan.

It may sound harsh to you, but it IS the sad truth. They will absolutely be polite to you, some may like you or will even fall in love with and marry you. But you will never be considered as one of them if you're not exactly that - one of them.

For reference you may look up this post. It describes the subject pretty good.
I also remember reading a post here about a User being half-japanese half-something else, dunno anymore and couldn't look it up swiftly. Anyway ~ he described aswell that, while he was in fact very much brought up by his japanese mother, spoke japanese fluently and knew everything about their culture and mannerisms he was never treated as one of them which kinda devastated him.

BTW, while I contributed to it this thread nevertheless drifts more and more off-topic I'm afraid
Maybe we shouldn't derail further from it and open another thread if the recent topics need further discussion

 

[Acharehnus]

To be frank, the alienation and sometimes passive-aggressiveness of the Kitsune is exactly the kind of treatment you get as a foreigner, a gaijin living alongside natives in Japan.

And I avoid people who do that in real life. And you can't sell your soul to look identical to a Japanese person.

But these are kitsune in a fictional world they're written by people they're not Japanese and suggesting they are is not a road I want to go down. Either way I can only re-state, mission accomplished I avoid those characters and that content.

 

[zagzig]

For what it's worth, there is a thread dedicated to Tobs' content as well as a thread for catch-all Gripes as well as the capacity for making new threads, if you guys want to talk more about Tobs' deficiencies as a person and what's wrong with all floofer content.

 

[Acharehnus]

I don't know him at all, can only judge his writing and posts here which is what I've done.

And I don't hate all Kitsune content. Some of my favorite stuff is Kitsune specific. It's just not in the den.

 

[MarcoPolo121]

I will not comment on the whole Kitsune thing as I don't really have any strong opinions on it, save to say that the broader discussion probably belongs on the Gripes thread and not here.

That being said I will offer up some comments or complaints about each character just to get us back on track. Numbered roughly by order added to the game according to my admittedly faulty recollection.

1. Cait: I'm not sure what to put here as while it did bug me at first that she wasn't going to get any preg. content I got over it quickly. I suppose the main thing I'd like for her is another threesome with Brienne (more on that below) but I don't know how feasible that request is.

2. Brint/Brienne: Again I'm not sure what to put here since we're apparently on the verge of the first wave of BriHaus expansion content and I want to see what it is before I complain too much, but for one specific thing? I would like to see Brienne get more scenes with other girls (or boys, if they're subs) where her role is to prepare them to take our cock and feeds them her boob milk, since they said that while Brint is a stud and PC is the first member of his harem, Brienne is the opposite, i.e. the first wife in PC's harem. And since they've done threesome scenes where Brienne encourages us to have sex with her sister and even gets her ready to take our cock in her ass, now there's a precedent established. If we're going to have that angle to her I would like to see it explored.

3. Etheryn: So far I like everything about her, except maybe how much grinding is involved in getting her both confident and slutty. It's a very delicate process. I want her happy but I also want her open to threesomes. Anyway, with the quest to capture Alissa and get that cage off her on the horizon, I'm sure whatever other minor quibbles I might have with her that I can't remember will be addressed in due course. Oh, right, there's also that she doesn't seem to notice or care when we become a Valkyrie even though we're basically a representative of her Goddess now, but I guess the rest of the Winter City is much the same so it's not a Ryn-specific problem.

4. Kiyoko: I'm much more positive on her than most but I would really like to see more of her interacting with the other party members and/or at least give later added party members opinions on her. Having her in her own bubble just makes her feel alienated from the rest of the party. Oh, and give me the chance to proc Kinu's stories myself instead of them happening randomly and also let me talk to that big guy she cozies up to if she's a farm girl. Still waiting on that.

5. Berwyn: Alas, poor Berwyn. I knew him well, Horatio. Anyway, apart from my gripes with the dungeon needed to get back at his mistress, the main thing I want to see addressed is the ability to get his pussy-bearing versions pregnant. What can I say? I know what I like. But yeah since we're not getting Berry back as a companion might as well get that.

6. Arona: Again, I'm more positive on her than a lot of people, if only because I like Orc Girls and tough outside soft inside Amazons. They've given her a lot of polish in the time since she was first added which is very much welcomed. Going to my head, if I had to think of something I wanted, I'd like to have more threesome scenes where she and our PC dom an NPC.

7. Quinn: I am not saying all the things I've already said about this guy again. Suffice it to say, any future encounters with the Demon Cult and especially Lex Luthor Master Tollus should have bits and pieces set aside to accommodate his presence. Otherwise what's the point of him being a former cult member if it's not going to contribute meaningfully to his dialogue and interjections or even sex scenes?

8. Azzyran: I had some issues with Azzy, mostly about her being too like Sub!Arona and Liaden being a satellite love interest for her. The last couple patches have addressed those issues handily. The Dragon Spear is a welcome new set, we can actually talk to and get close to Liaden ourselves now and she's got a nice soft domme side to her. Not sure what else I could ask for her at this point, except maybe some interactions with Lumia and Valks?

9. Atugia: I still have no strong opinions on Tui, though if I had to say one thing that could make me interested in her, it would definitely be scenes, even sex scenes, where her head and body are doing two separate things. Otherwise I'm not sure why she's a dullahan.

10. Agnimitra: I liked her when she was first introduced but once the novelty wore off she also began to feel aimless and bland. Maybe more character stuff can help with that, but I'm not sure what specific form I'd like it to take or with whom. Either way, giving her a dick is not enough to rekindle (Ha!) my interest in her.

11. Viviane: I liked her fine as an NPC but as a companion I just don't know why I should bring her. I've already done most of the existing content without her and don't feel like doing all of it again just in case she has some offhand remark, especially when I can't check the game code to see it like I could in TiTS for a while. I wish she at least had some sex scenes only available post-recruitment or specific character interactions with other party members. It wouldn't be much but it would be something.

 

[Acharehnus]

Oh, right, there's also that she doesn't seem to notice or care when we become a Valkyrie even though we're basically a representative of her Goddess now, but I guess the rest of the Winter City is much the same so it's not a Ryn-specific problem.

She has some minor stuff, I think when Liaden and Sanders are reacting to you if she's in your party she does...maybe?

She also shows up in your valk training if you take her, which is cute. I'd be very surprised if there weren't more of that after the big Ryn patch.

11. Viviane: I liked her fine as an NPC but as a companion I just don't know why I should bring her. I've already done most of the existing content without her and don't feel like doing all of it again just in case she has some offhand remark, especially when I can't check the game code to see it like I could in TiTS for a while. I wish she at least had some sex scenes only available post-recruitment or specific character interactions with other party members. It wouldn't be much but it would be something.

I did a replay recently and the req to unlock her as a companion takes a bit longer then I remembered so even if she does have stuff to say it's not that feasible to get her in time for it. She also only has a dps set which limits whether you'd take her or not.

 

[wolfraider13]

I don't really have any major issue with any of the companions, except Quin (consent man, come on). Minor issues...tho yep...

For Ryn even after she becomes "confident" she's still not exactly confident. There just isn't really that much of a change in her interactions which for me made the pay-off really not worth it. I just kind of put her on her throne and started banging Hethia and Elthara (yay elf babies)

For Brienne...it was completely my fault. Misreading her prompts at the Frosthound leads to automatic sex or milking or other delays that take a full day and now I can't go back there on one of my characters because as soon as I do I'll be stuck boning her for a week or more straight. My fault but still wish you could tap out at some point or not have them all proc at the same time back to back to back

 

[Revonero]

Think the only companions I actually like so far is Brienne, Sub Arona and Bimbo Azzyran. The rest I kinda ignore or use for the sake of utility. Cait for example I only keep in my party so I don't have to do the healing myself. But the ones I like the least?

Definitely Kiyoko, Atugia and Quinn. Primarily Kiyoko because her storyline and appearance does not interest me, honestly her initial appearance makes her seem anorexic to me and it just makes me uncomfortable just looking at her. Even after getting her 9 tails, her body is just odd to me. Kinda wish we had the old CoC system where some companions had a corrupt alternative variant.

 

[morii]

To be frank, the alienation and sometimes passive-aggressiveness of the Kitsune is exactly the kind of treatment you get as a foreigner, a gaijin living alongside natives in Japan.

It may sound harsh to you, but it IS the sad truth. They will absolutely be polite to you, some may like you or will even fall in love with and marry you. But you will never be considered as one of them if you're not exactly that - one of them.

For reference you may look up this post. It describes the subject pretty good.
I also remember reading a post here about a User being half-japanese half-something else, dunno anymore and couldn't look it up swiftly. Anyway ~ he described aswell that, while he was in fact very much brought up by his japanese mother, spoke japanese fluently and knew everything about their culture and mannerisms he was never treated as one of them which kinda devastated him.

That's true, but I'm so used to being treated as an outsider in my own country that it never really seemed a problem to me. Being a minority in any country sucks so much, but I'm used to it. And I never minded how Japanese people treated me as such. At least they're polite about it.

Anyway, I don't want to derail too bad. So I have to say, Kiyoko is a really great character and made with care but it feels like she's dooming herself to oblivion if she doesn't want to share essences with females or cuntboys. I'm just concerned that such a salt mine went too far, to a point where some plot devices don't make sense in hindsight. There's nothing wrong with making a character have restrictions, of course, but her follower status being gated behind dicks isn't good imo.

It's probably too late to make any changes to such an integral part of who she is, but if it was changed I would be very happy to oblige her with sperm. Otherwise, I'm not keen on characters who only cater to dicks, probably because it feels way too disconnected from my own lived perspective -- being a woman with a uterus. It's hard to get in the mood for someone who wouldn't even like who I actually am, if that makes any sense.

 

[Alypia]

It's hard to get in the mood for someone who wouldn't even like who I actually am, if that makes any sense.

This is the kicker for me for a lot of characters in this game.

 

[Animalistic]

You can have Cait with you and still choose to not fuck the catslut. To witness their story content (if not all but enough) you're never obliged to fuck any of your other companions but Kiyoko. And even if you decide to do it this one time to free her, after the deed is done the game regards you as groom and bride to live happily with her thereafter regardless.

Yeah, I agree that this is bad and Kiyoko is the most exasperated example since she has that piled up on top of everything else.

But I think it is the wider problem as a hole since I feel that Etheryn (mid-high confidence), Brint and Brienne also suffer from this, even if it is not exactly on same level as newly wed couple (although Brienne comes close),