Your gripes with CoC II

[MarcoPolo121]

Depending on the Champ this could be very simple or it could require enough paper to strip the entire Old Forest region bare. Pity the poor scribe who has to deal with a Champ that's doing all the possible pregnancy content and number-gremlining, because working out a thousand children from a dozen different partners and whether the Champ was siring or bearing the children sounds like a very trying task. And then throw in whether your particular Champ has a lineage of their own with the Noble Scion background, or whether it's even capable of being traced with others and... yeah, tough job. xD

Well, we are already encouraged to have at least 32 babies with Kiyoko to give her nine tails and a full-on mom bod and unlock her final sex scene. Obviously we're not supposed to worry about the division of our estate among our hundreds of offspring. Not to mention, if one or more of those babies are orcs born of Arona or Hretha, or kitsune born of Miko/Mai, or marefolk/centaurs born of Atani/Ahmri, or sired by Etheryn post-uncaging if that's an option, they would probably be in line for the position of Warchief of the Kervus, leadership of the Kitsune Den, the Chieftain-ship of the Marefolk or Centaur Village(s), or even the throne of the Winter City. Wow, talk about a well-connected family.

True, a lot of things do come down to the stars being right. We know Wsan has Plans for Evelyn that have been back-burnered previously because he wants things set up first, for example. But given what we've heard about the Brihaus expansion I think it's a safe assumption that it's on track for the schedule we were given.

Just have to keep hope alive, then. A month and a bit, maybe.

I know how you feel. Demon of Ice has been taunting me ever since we got CaliseQuest the First because I know what completing it is going to mean, But Thou Can't (yet)...

Ugh, yes. Gotta give Ryn closure for her sister's fate, but instead we have this big block of PLOT blocking the path.

Spoiler: Potential Spoilers about Calise

Plus I really want to get to the bottom of what exactly is going on with Calise, because I'm still not sure what exactly her deal is, or what relations she has to Kasyrra, or what Kas is even trying to DO in Undermountain that would make imitating a paladin and being out in the open a viable strategy when so far, she's either kept her influence well-hidden (Winter City) or not even tried to hide who and what she is, but also left the people she corrupted out in the open where their corruption is obvious and visible (Alraune, Hornet Hive, Centaur Village) or just let her cultists do all the heavy lifting (the Rift) so this is an anamoly.

 

[waterpanther7]

Since it feels like I am only person that takes up that path, I am looking forward to lezdomme content on the side of the player. For I do not like the implications of the Lezdome Rina route. And, well, it is nice to be able to dominate as my fem champ.

What implications?

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

The distinction is he's not actually having sex with these people after the nudges. It's "lol you're horny now", not trying to compel them into his bed.

That's still pretty cut and dry sexual harassment through magical medium though, and let's be real. Given Quin's personality, his behavior, the fact that this is a super fucky porno world, the fact that he's specifically lusting after some weird decapitated head oral from Atugia...

I don't know, but something is telling me he most definitely hoping to get an easy lay out of it.

 

[Aury]

Atugia says that he keeps trying to use lewd mind magic to influence her, and that she has to resist him. It's implied that he does the same thing to people who do not have her mental resistances. The description of what he's doing as "nudges" suggests that this is an attempt to compel behavior. At the most generous reading, trying to compel someone into lewd behavior with you magically is still pretty arguably rape. Also, I will note here that neither Cait nor random taverngoers are people who have already agreed to have sex with him - my understanding is that group is the champion, if the champion does, and Rune, and that's it.View attachment 28795

It’s definitely pretty scummy behavior, but I don’t know that I’d qualify it as rape. As Zag said, part of it is just a prank (though I’d hesitate to call it a good-natured one), but it’s still a reason I personally dislike Quin.
He’s not as bad as a lot of people take him to be, but imo, he’s certainly not that good of a person.

 

[zagzig]

I know people don't like Quin, which is their prerogative, but consider everything that's been written for him relatively recently. Quin training in armour to better protect the party, Quin become gym bros with Atugia, Quin accompanying champ to hang out with the kids in the lyceum, Quin collaborating with Annika to give the valkyries the intelligence they need to battle the cult.

Do people really think Bubble et al are writing Quin - your faithful ally who can travel with you to the ends of the earth, potential father of champ's children - to be a serial rapist who spends his days scheming to violate your other companions? Nobody has to like the bunny boy, but Quin the Rapist has always been a gigantic reach.

 

[Animalistic]

Quinm does use his magic powers on the champ when they are having sex without asking them for their consent. That would be like someone spicing your drinks with aphrodisiacs with an excuse "well, you already agreed to fuck me, so what is the big deal." That is a breach of consent.

Quin collaborating with Annika to give the valkyries the intelligence they need to battle the cult.

Why is he not telling us this? Is he not our "faithful ally who can travel with you to the ends of the earth, potential father of champ's children (who he only aknowledges once)".

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

Do people really think Bubble et al are writing Quin - your faithful ally who can travel with you to the ends of the earth, potential father of champ's children - to be a serial rapist who spends his days scheming to violate your other companions? Nobody has to like the bunny boy, but Quin the Rapist has always been a gigantic reach.

It would be a reach if he wasn't already a nigh-undeniable sex offender, and given that someone voluntarily wrote this content, I would suppose that, yes, they would write him as scheming to violate the other companions.

If you like Quin, that's great. There's times when I'm in the sort of mood that I like his content too. But he's also packing some major character flaws that are, like, one of the very first things that you run into when you actually read his content, so part of me is wondering why you even like Quin as a character if you do not like a major chunk of Quin's, well, character.

Is it the art? I can sympathize, there's been characters I've absolutely loathed, but holy mackerel if their bust art doesn't do something for me.

 

[Alypia]

Why is he not telling us this?

He does, if you bring him to Annika for that particular conversation.

 

[Stzk619]

He’s not as bad as a lot of people take him to be, but imo, he’s certainly not that good of a person.

Seconded. Quintillus is far from a stand-up gentleman, though he’s definitely not presented as some scheming rapist.

Do people really think Bubble et al are writing Quin - your faithful ally who can travel with you to the ends of the earth, potential father of champ's children - to be a serial rapist who spends his days scheming to violate your other companions? Nobody has to like the bunny boy, but Quin the Rapist has always been a gigantic reach.

Thank you. While his parenthood content is undeniably slapdash at best, and the author certainly seems to have some struggles with maintaining a consistent tone for Quintillus, it’s never even implied that he’s some nefarious villain. I don’t comprehend how so many people fail to get that.

 

[Animalistic]

He does, if you bring him to Annika for that particular conversation.

Yeah, but only when Annika is present. What is preventing him from doing so when we are alone. Sure, we may not be able to use that information like a well-trained militia but it would still be appreciated. Does he still not trust us?

 

[Alypia]

Yeah, but only when Annika is present. What is preventing him from doing so when we are alone.

My belief that a separate talk with Quin for such a thing is unnecessary clutter. I'm sure he does share what he knows with the valkyries anyway on his own time, because that's what he does with the PC and with the people of Hawkethorne.

If people are determined not to bring Quin around to things to see what he's actually like, that's their prerogative. Annika wasn't written to force people to engage with Quin; briefly including him in the talk with her was just a fun way to acknowledge his actual skills and personality.

 

[Animalistic]

that's what he does with the PC

He does not.

Aly, do not get me wrong, I appreciate that you are involving other companions. But this is the case where your added content really showcases how seemingly distrusting Quin comes of with his relation to champ. And how his relationship and history with the cult is half-baked.

When we ask him to share anything with a cult, he says "wiggle your ass to defeat them with horniness" and nothing more. Now his unwillingness to talk about guys like Tollus and more darker sides of the cult is it being presented as him being to mentally unprepared to talk. But that really should not be stopping him from "telling us the inner plan/workings" of the cult. Why is that the champ, the main force behind putting the stop to them and seemingly his most trusted companion/friend/lover, has to receive a some new info as byproduct of bunny boys conversation with someone that he just met?

 

[Cannibal Cravings]

Does he still not trust us?

Would it be a surprise if he didn't? That's kind of the point of the random scenes you can get with him in Hawkethorne I thought. I mean its true that the Champ did him a real solid during the recruitment scene but you're still total strangers. It'd be more weird for him to start spilling all his secrets and trusting you unconditionally rather than slowing warming up to the Champ and getting to know them.

Think about it from his perspective; This group of people hell bent on destroying your cult finds you and randomly decide to be somewhat nice to you. They help you out a bit but most of them openly don't like you and attempt to harass you into leaving one of the only safe places from the corruption almost every day. Are they helping you because they're actually good people or are they just keeping you around until you spill all your secrets so they can toss you away or kill you once you've outlived your usefulness? Its not as simple as just saying you're all on the same side now and lowering every single emotional barrier you have to someone you just met a week ago. While I'm not fond of using the "realism!" argument personally I can say that it does feel more believable for Quin's character to not instantly warm up to the Champion and their party.



Now is it okay for Quin to be walking around dosing people up without their consent on the magical equivalent of MDMA? Totally not okay at all, not even as a "lol your horny now" prank. You are forcefully altering the chemistry of another living being so it does what you want it to do and at that rate you may as well just straight up drug them. It'd be different if it was just physical teasing or sultry looks from across the room to try and get your attention but its not. Do I think Quin would honestly take advantage of someone with his magic given the chance? Yeah he probably would, and while that is definitely a bad thing I'd argue its much better than going out like the cult is doing and actually beating people into submission before raping them. So little steps I guess? We should also keep in mind that the culture regarding sex and loss in combat is fundamentally different than what we're use to in the real world.

However I still think those character flaws are what makes Quin a good companion. He's not some righteous hero trying to save the world because of some noble goal or anything, he's an average person like us. Socially tolerated at best in most groups, not a terrible person at heart but most people assume the worst anyways, has some bad habits that should be corrected but would willingly change over time for the right people, has trust issues but wants to be accepted at the same time. Maybe some of that is my own personal bias towards the character but who knows. Regardless, I feel confident in saying that if everyone here had the same abilities as Quin we'd probably take advantage of it in a similar way as him. I don't mean that as an insult either, we're all a bunch of weirdo perverts by the standards of normal society. As long as we're able to acknowledge that this sort of behavior isn't acceptable in real life we can keep those sort of fantasies contained in media like CoC without lines getting blurred. That's my thoughts on the matter.

EDIT: I also just wanna say that I did NOT expect these kind of thought provoking conversations on the forums, not gonna lie. Ya'll are awesome.

 

[sumdude3456]

Why is that the champ, the main force behind putting the stop to them and seemingly his most trusted companion/friend/lover, has to receive a some new info as byproduct of bunny boys conversation with someone that he just met?

That "someone he just met" is a valkyrie that was handpicked by a god to hold a leadership position. She will have inherent tenure so it makes total sense that he'd trust her capabilities enough to spill the beans.

As to why he doesn't tell his most trusted companion/friend/lover, well, the short answer is narrative pacing. There's a fine line that game devs have to walk when one of their characters is a defector from (or ally to) the BBEG; if they don't tell you any info, you distrust their motives and potentially question why the character even exists. If they tell you too much info, the pacing might suffer from a long-winded exposition dump and certain story beats might get spoiled or ruined.

It's possible that his writer just didn't have a clear picture of what the story was going to be, seeing as a large chunk of the story hadn't been written at the point that his content was made, so any attempt to walk that fine line of info dumps would be inconsistent at best. It's also possible that Quin is just unwilling to give that information to the champ.

We won't know until his writer fleshes out the character some more.

Your frustration with his refusal to talk makes sense, and in my opinion that bit of content could have been handled a bit better. The total stonewall he gives when you ask for info can be frustrating if you're immersed in the lore and story, and I'm hoping that Bubblelord will address some of these issues if he ever gets back to writing. As it stands, the fact that other writers are filling in some blanks and giving his presence some weight to the overall story is appreciated.

 

[Tide Hunter]

Do people really think Bubble et al are writing Quin - your faithful ally who can travel with you to the ends of the earth, potential father of champ's children - to be a serial rapist who spends his days scheming to violate your other companions? Nobody has to like the bunny boy, but Quin the Rapist has always been a gigantic reach.

To be fair, another one of our companions, Arona, who can be willing to faithfully obey you (or dominate you) and with whom you can both sire and birth children, is also an unrepentant serial rapist, raider, and slaver, as part of her tribe's culture, a culture she is pretty much unwilling to change. Her preferred methods happen to be more physical, and also she's far worse morally than Quin. And yet people seem to generally be much more lenient with her. While some folks would rate her as one of their least favorite companions, there's a decently large chunk of people who would rate her as their favorite, or one of their favorites.

 

[zagzig]

To be fair, another one of our companions, Arona, who can be willing to faithfully obey you (or dominate you) and with whom you can both sire and birth children, is also an unrepentant serial rapist, raider, and slaver, as part of her tribe's culture, a culture she is pretty much unwilling to change. Her preferred methods happen to be more physical, and also she's far worse morally than Quin. And yet people seem to generally be much more lenient with her. While some folks would rate her as one of their least favorite companions, there's a decently large chunk of people who would rate her as their favorite, or one of their favorites.

That's true, though the distinction I would make there is that Savin readily says Arona is the token evil teammate (at least until demon Viv came along). Bubblelord has been very against that characterisation of Quin.

And, despite all those things you said about Arona being true, she isn't described as doing any of that as your companions. She's definitely south of Neutral on the alignment scale, but Arona is never going to be written doing heinous things to Hawkethorne NPCs while you're not looking (at least not without their consent) because that would make her impossible to have as a companion without being a piece of shit. At the very least, the same principle applies to Quin.

 

[MarcoPolo121]

To be fair, another one of our companions, Arona, who can be willing to faithfully obey you (or dominate you) and with whom you can both sire and birth children, is also an unrepentant serial rapist, raider, and slaver, as part of her tribe's culture, a culture she is pretty much unwilling to change. Her preferred methods happen to be more physical, and also she's far worse morally than Quin. And yet people seem to generally be much more lenient with her. While some folks would rate her as one of their least favorite companions, there's a decently large chunk of people who would rate her as their favorite, or one of their favorites.

Speaking as someone who enjoys Arona, there are a couple of things that set her and Quinn apart for me.

1. Arona is a big-tittied, hot-blooded amazon herm with two settings, Sub or Domme, each with their own selection of sex scenes. She also can carry or sire kids, which gives her flexibility, and some nice pregnancy care content. That appeals to me. Quinn is a dude, with only one set of genitals, and a limited set of sex scenes which are almost all pitching, and only one future scene where he catches. That is definitely not my thing.

2. Arona is a tank with an extra set which is ideal for fighting Demons and Ghosts, meaning she synergises well with any player class and party depending on sets. Quinn has been made better since the combat rework but his emphasis on sex magic made him very limited before then.

3. Arona is also from an entire culture of raiders, slavers and sex maniacs. I mean, that doesn't make it okay, but it does offer an explanation, and can be traced back to systemic problems with Sailgrave Orc society that are probably beyond the scope of this game to solve. (Plus if you want to be consistent you end up having to hate almost all Orcs in the game as a result.) Quinn does not fit in that category since his status as an ex-Cultist is all about having made bad choices and being bamboozled by Tollus before he left, which is not really the same thing since it means the bulk of the buck for his actions in the present still stops with him, since I don't think Taeleer are culturally prone to falling in with a bad crowd.

 

[loricd]

Personally I wish I could overhear some sort of conversation with one of the other companions and Quinn saying something to the effect of, "Sorry, can't help myself. Sometimes I just gotta use my magic to get what I want. And want is to bed our Champion." And hopefully he tries to go through with it with me.

 

[Melon_ear]

I personally dislike Quin because the author decided to slap me with 8 corruption when I decided that I have no good reason to trust him and was given no middle ground between "I trust you completely" and "Go die in a ditch". Time for barely related tangent gripe number 1:

The linear development of the game. Plans are bound to change as the game develops but in some cases it creates discrepancies when later added content enables a new route for an earlier content which is never covered because going back and tweaking existing stuff to accommodate for new developments is not worth the resources. Right now we have a dungeon in the Wayfort into which we can throw any ne'er-do-wells who we either want to lock up or are not sure on how to proceed with. But we are not getting that with Quin because the Wayfort was changed to be a possible base of operation only after he was added and would require serious rewriting of his existing content to fit which would be a waste of resources when most players want the new shiny thing.

Then we get an automatic quest to recruit him and it's time for barely related tangent number 2:

Don't do automatic quests. If I wanted to do something I would ask to do it and having uncompleted quests in the log feels awful and just begs for an ending slide calling you and asshole for never getting around to it.

And I don't understand people calling his mind magic a harmless prank when it's a lot closer to groping than putting someone's stapler in jello.
And while the Tui talk was confirmed to be wrong by Bubble and going to be changed, I have to admit I got a good laugh when, for all his memeing on players not reading and misinterpreting Quin's content, he himself admitted to never having read the two paragraphs of Tui's companion talk.

 

[AceofSpades]

Ey, brother, glad to see another guy here that prefers to top. Sometimes it feels like I am surronded by bottoms when interacting with this community.

I thought we were cool!


For real though, sad I missed this debate. I am pretty good at writing, I think, but my coding skills are nonexistent so... womp womp. I would contribute to the man-puddle of content if I could. I will say, avoiding bob and vagene and futa dick really honed in my build to not fail in combat. Because sometimes, especially against bosses, I feel like I am avoiding a loooot of boobs. I even died for fun in the fox den, and not even those guys do more than kill you lol.

I can't say that I've noticed a lack of bottoming, because... yeah. But I'm sure I've screeched like a harpy enough that I am in full support of more fleshed out male characters, even on the level of... what's her name... the tailor in the fox den.

 

[Ria Brew]

I'm honestly just confused. Maybe I'm missing something but the whole mind magic thing to fuck with people seems awfully par for the course when compared to the grand, multi-hued spectrum that is this games morality. Like yeah it's kinda fucked up but it's hardly the worst thing anyone that you get to call a companion has done/can do. If you lose to arona she straight up just actually rapes you. Viviane invades(allegedly) your dreams(allegedly) to steal your cum. Companions frequently "help themselves" to "leftover spoils" in post fight sex scenes. The whole thing with Cait and Lusamine.

I guess it's different when it's between companions but idk it seems like such an odd place to find the line, especially when taking a couple steps back.

 

[AceofSpades]

I've always thought Quinn was the setup for the "redemption" character in every video game. The tension of "does he or does he not trust us" is part of the shtick. And generally with that character type, there is some sort of perceived betrayal of trust that winds up being not really a betrayal. I haven't seen his talk with Annika yet but it seems like a good setup for "Well if he's not telling me this, does he distrust me?" Only to reveal that it was no big deal.

As far as the lust magic, in context of the world, I also don't think it's so bad. It would be like having a siren song or Berry flashing his dick at Cait to get her to suck it. They're giving someone the extra persuasion, but not forcing anything. I went into a big deep dive on Quin not that long ago and he mentions that one of our companions, I think Arona, actually pursues him for his magic for the extra sensation of it mixed with sex. Honestly I'm surprised we don't have more magical/mental seduction in the game. CoC1 and TiTS both have a lot, especially pheromones. I think lacking NPCs, both benign and otherwise, who employ it make Quin stand out. But then maybe I'm just used to it from playing the aforementioned games where it's a very common theme.

 

[Animalistic]

The problem with Quinn is not that his actions are morally fucked up, it is that the game does not notice the dichotomy between the way his acts and the way the text is trying to present him.

Hell, the recent event where townsfolk dog-pile on him for being a former member, and how game presents it as it "not being fair torwards poor Quinn," leaves scratching my head. For that one scene perfectly encapsulates my problem with his apperent character arc: those flaws that he has are not presented as something that he has to fix in game. He wants to distance himself from the cult, but a lot of his less savory tendencies are the ones that their average member seems to poses. He dresses like a cultist, he uses his magic without consent and he seems proud of how easily he can influence people to get in their pants with. And while, thankfully, he keeps it consensual as much as one can when using aphrodisiac magic (well as long as you are not with him in bed), I really feel that that is the lowest of low bars one can find.

The game puts all the blame on his circumstances, and not on how he is failing to combat them.

Let me use subArona as example. She believes that strong should enact their will on the weaker, her observations and manner of speaking/thinking were/are less than ideal -- she was a rapist Orc.

And game calls her up that.
Her Brienne dialogue brings up how messed up her perception of the cowgirl is, and it treats it as such.
She gets chewed up on multiple occasions for things her people have done (enslaving cowgirls) and her unwillingness to show some simpathy.
And multiple characters across the game give her a piece of their mind on how overtly barbaric she can seem.

Yet, at least in some aspects, her stay -- and possible love -- with the champion and people around them is making her reconsider her approach. She takes care of vulnerable Ryn, she tries to somewhat blend into the crowd at bare minimum. And her recent lover events put emphasis on how her being champions sub made it known to her that it is okay to feel vulnerable.
And she doesn't rape, which is apparently an accomplishment.

I'm honestly just confused. Maybe I'm missing something but the whole mind magic thing to fuck with people seems awfully par for the course when compared to the grand, multi-hued spectrum that is this games morality. Like yeah it's kinda fucked up but it's hardly the worst thing anyone that you get to call a companion has done/can do. If you lose to arona she straight up just actually rapes you. Viviane invades(allegedly) your dreams(allegedly) to steal your cum. Companions frequently "help themselves" to "leftover spoils" in post fight sex scenes. The whole thing with Cait and Lusamine

Sorry to distinguish you among the rest, my comment is getting long as it is, but I personally have a problem with most of these. Well, expect with Arona since, if you believe that she is iredimable trash, you can leave her to die. And the post battle sex scenes involving your companions are most of the time inacted when the former combatant is more than willing to fuck you -- the white hair bunny girl, tattooed demon, that Ninja Kitsune and so on.

Now onto the rest -- I dislike how out of character Cait acts torwards lusamine. How she seemingly forces herself upon the elf, which, for a cat girl that is all about consent, seems wrong.
Viviane does invade your dreams to dream fuck you without your say in the matter. And the game is apparently OK with that.
Or how we have no option to refuse Berwyn when it comes living with us. Despite him trying to rape us.

Quinn just happens to have most of his cons strewed across his entire body of work, which is why they are more noticeable.

 

[arch99]

I personally dislike Quin because the author decided to slap me with 8 corruption when I decided that I have no good reason to trust him and was given no middle ground between "I trust you completely" and "Go die in a ditch". Time for barely related tangent gripe number 1:

The linear development of the game. Plans are bound to change as the game develops but in some cases it creates discrepancies when later added content enables a new route for an earlier content which is never covered because going back and tweaking existing stuff to accommodate for new developments is not worth the resources. Right now we have a dungeon in the Wayfort into which we can throw any ne'er-do-wells who we either want to lock up or are not sure on how to proceed with. But we are not getting that with Quin because the Wayfort was changed to be a possible base of operation only after he was added and would require serious rewriting of his existing content to fit which would be a waste of resources when most players want the new shiny thing.

Then we get an automatic quest to recruit him and it's time for barely related tangent number 2:

Don't do automatic quests. If I wanted to do something I would ask to do it and having uncompleted quests in the log feels awful and just begs for an ending slide calling you and asshole for never getting around to it.

And I don't understand people calling his mind magic a harmless prank when it's a lot closer to groping than putting someone's stapler in jello.
And while the Tui talk was confirmed to be wrong by Bubble and going to be changed, I have to admit I got a good laugh when, for all his memeing on players not reading and misinterpreting Quin's content, he himself admitted to never having read the two paragraphs of Tui's companion talk.

Yeah, it's kinda fucked people are now going "you're misrepresenting him" when I'm directly quoting content from in the game that has been in the game for years that was the representation of him, which is apparently now incorrect? No shit I would draw incorrect conclusions from incorrect content that's never corrected that there's no disclaimer or anything on. What the fuck else would I be able to know? If I'm fundamentally not given information, I can't magically correct the misinformation I'm given.

Edit: And for the record, I find Arona largely uninteresting myself. I'm well aware that within the game, rape is contextualized as an accepted part of combat. But rape using mental magic to influence people is repeatedly and frequently presented as evil and the hallmark of the cult - I don't think you can blame the players of your game where the baddies constantly try to use corruption and evil magic to turn people horny for disliking the companion who constantly uses magic to try and turn your friends horny, a pretty similar goal to what the main villains of the game try to do. I dislike that Cait forces herself on Lusamine, it seems deeply out of character for her. Dreams are a slightly different matter, imo, but yes, are also inherently nonsexual. But the difference here in most of these cases is that it's not your supposed allies targeting your supposed allies. Lusamine attacks us to rob and potentially rape us alongside the rest of MMM. Viviane fundamentally does not know us at the time. Quinn is doing friendly fire. That's why I don't like him.

I mean, also just, dudes who sexualize every woman around them and try to manipulate them into having sex are an actual threat much greater than people trying to fight you and then raping you if you lose, and they're constantly excused societally, and it pisses me off to see them being excused all over again. But it would be very different if it wasn't on our allies and friends.

 

[Ria Brew]

Edit: And for the record, I find Arona largely uninteresting myself. I'm well aware that within the game, rape is contextualized as an accepted part of combat. But rape using mental magic to influence people is repeatedly and frequently presented as evil and the hallmark of the cult - I don't think you can blame the players of your game where the baddies constantly try to use corruption and evil magic to turn people horny for disliking the companion who constantly uses magic to try and turn your friends horny, a pretty similar goal to what the main villains of the game try to do. I dislike that Cait forces herself on Lusamine, it seems deeply out of character for her. Dreams are a slightly different matter, imo, but yes, are also inherently nonsexual. But the difference here in most of these cases is that it's not your supposed allies targeting your supposed allies. Lusamine attacks us to rob and potentially rape us alongside the rest of MMM. Viviane fundamentally does not know us at the time. Quinn is doing friendly fire. That's why I don't like him.

I mean, also just, dudes who sexualize every woman around them and try to manipulate them into having sex are an actual threat much greater than people trying to fight you and then raping you if you lose, and they're constantly excused societally, and it pisses me off to see them being excused all over again. But it would be very different if it wasn't on our allies and friends.

I do wish to just point out I don't think anyone is wrong for drawing the aforementioned line, just that it's not where I expected to find it. I'm not necessarily wired to interpret things in the "friendly fire" light. An ally doing bad things to an ally is gonna put me off about as much as an ally doing the same to an enemy or an enemy to an ally. I blame the autism.

In the end what I mean to say is this isn't the "normalized" problematic trait of this world i expected so many people to single out.

And I'm certainly not trying to excuse any of these behaviors. They are all very much in the realm of not okay, with maybe one or two that fall into the "it's kinda hot when they do it to me" abstract fantasy fetish, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Kesil]

Personally, I'd like it if Quin used his magic as a way to enhance the act. But, as it stands, it feels more like a cheap domination tool. At this point, it may be it's just a confluence of kinks that some find in bad taste.
I too think it may be best to beat an enemy by shaking your body rather than firing a string of fireballs, but I can see how the slippery slope may go across the "you [seem to] enjoy it, you want it" path.

 

[CasualAntlerEnjoyer]

And while the Tui talk was confirmed to be wrong by Bubble and going to be changed, I have to admit I got a good laugh when, for all his memeing on players not reading and misinterpreting Quin's content, he himself admitted to never having read the two paragraphs of Tui's companion talk.

...is this true? Because that's a fairly big yikes if so.

I dislike that Cait forces herself on Lusamine, it seems deeply out of character for her.

Hard agree with that, plus I'm not quite sure why my 100% pure character would actually move to assist one of the scenes by body blocking the whole thing from view.

 

[Cannibal Cravings]

I mean, also just, dudes who sexualize every woman around them and try to manipulate them into having sex are an actual threat much greater than people trying to fight you and then raping you if you lose, and they're constantly excused societally, and it pisses me off to see them being excused all over again. But it would be very different if it wasn't on our allies and friends.

Nobody here has excused any of the behavior, we're just not having a knee-jerk reaction to it because we understand its a game set in a fantasy world. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe literally every person here participating in this discussion has acknowledged that what Quin doesn't isn't morally okay in their eyes. The reason why we can act like its no big deal and brush it off is because we're aware that its just some fictional writing in a fantasy game with no actual effect on the real world.

Also to play the devils advocate for a bit; There is a such thing as a CNC kink and on some level Quin's behavior could probably be enjoyable to people who have those specific fantasies. At the end of the day isn't CoC a game that exists to do just that? Satisfy erotic fantasies that we'd otherwise have difficulties experiencing? Its okay to not enjoy certain content from the game but not liking something doesn't mean it needs to be removed or changed. Just don't play that content and ignore it.

 

[arch99]

Nobody here has excused any of the behavior, we're just not having a knee-jerk reaction to it because we understand its a game set in a fantasy world. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe literally every person here participating in this discussion has acknowledged that what Quin doesn't isn't morally okay in their eyes. The reason why we can act like its no big deal and brush it off is because we're aware that its just some fictional writing in a fantasy game with no actual effect on the real world.

Also to play the devils advocate for a bit; There is a such thing as a CNC kink and on some level Quin's behavior could probably be enjoyable to people who have those specific fantasies. At the end of the day isn't CoC a game that exists to do just that? Satisfy erotic fantasies that we'd otherwise have difficulties experiencing? Its okay to not enjoy certain content from the game but not liking something doesn't mean it needs to be removed or changed. Just don't play that content and ignore it.

Then give us a way to opt-out of Quin without being evil for it, if he's doing something morally wrong and he's engaging with a kink that is pretty non-universal. Like we have a way to opt-out of the drunk kitsune I can't remember the name of. I have always said that if I'm given a way to send quin off on a mission or whatever and just get rid of him after saving him (because the way the game contextualizes it, I am evil for not doing so) I will happily do so, and shut the fuck up about him from then on.

 

[rwftg]

Her Brienne dialogue brings up how messed up her perception of the cowgirl is, and it treats it as such.

How can I see this dialogue of Arona talking about Brienne?