Will Ember ever be completed?

Nonesuch

Scientist
Creator
Aug 27, 2015
2,225
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Especially since mindbreaking Whitney is likely the single most vile thing you're allowed to do in the entire game, and in my book one of the best-written events in CoC because it's the only time that taking the corrupt route really makes you feel like an utter monster.  It's admittedly been months since I last played CoC, and that was for a speedrun, but to my recollection the farm corruption hits the right notes to make the Champion despicable in a way that makes the writing of things like Amily and Jojo corruption look incredibly shallow by comparison.  It's especially noteworthy for being a late addition when late CoC had gone fully into being Super Waifu Simulator, making the quality of the event stand out all the more.

I'm glad you liked it, I put a lot into it. And that was what I was aiming for, yes - an event that made it clear your character was evil, not just a slave to their lust, in a way that was hopefully still arousing if you were into that kind of thing. Whitney's farm was supposed to serve as a moral event horizon for corrupt characters, the moment they might begin to think they could probably do the whole demon tyrant thing a lot better than Lethice was. A lot of players expressed regret that there wasn't any way to romance her after I'd given her enough talk scenes for her to be an adult with thoughts, feelings and flaws that you were doing it to. I wasn't all that bothered about Fen's thing about not being able to pure fugg her, but I do wish I'd provided options to invest in her farm in a non-corrupt fashion. Or done the whole pure Owca thing. There were never enough opportunities in CoC for the player to be nice, mostly because that wasn't as fun to write.

You sure talk about morality a lot for a game most of the players pop open, check the newest scenes/their favorites, fap, then clsoe and (sometimes) save. CoC (and TiTS) are hardly masterworks of storytelling and deep engaging characters.

Writing and games are what you make them. I mean, I agree you shouldn't try and reproduce Tennyson when writing smut, because it's wasted effort and will probably detract from the main aim. But it's not one-way. I use CoC and TiTS to try and improve myself as a writer, and events like the farm corruption thing - where you try and convey a mood, something about a character, and about the player character themselves, within fairly limited constraints - are a really good opportunity to do it.

The other part of this is, if you set a certain standard in a game, then that is what your audience will come to expect. If you think about what you're doing, you edit it thoroughly and give it to competent coders and disseminators, then you will find a large, discerning audience and hopefully inspire other good writers to join you. You push out absolute garbage like the behemoth and scraps of other people's projects? I'll let you finish that thought.
 

Ormael

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
6,623
1,786
Heh quite interesting talk. From Ember to the quality of stuff added to CoC mod. Maybe better move that disscussion to mod thread itself than doing it futher here? As for Ember well - as for orginal author she won't be finished ever only something in coc mod which well already spiked heated idsscusion over mod itself.
 

TheDarkMaster

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 28, 2015
1,052
259
Fen has always been great as far as I'm concerned, but some of the content submitted by others is just weak.

I wouldn't necessarily say that.  Fen has improved his skills dramatically when it comes to writing since he wrote the first version of Aerith for Slave Maker 3 and did his original Unnamed Text Game.  Almost all of the earliest entries in the game are very rough compared to the parts that were added later.  The game's life is very much a big improvement story for every writer, including Fen.  I'd say that this is a good thing, since it means that with each new project we have a steady growing level of overall quality in the content being added to the games.
 

Fisto

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
629
9
I wouldn't necessarily say that.  Fen has improved his skills dramatically when it comes to writing since he wrote the first version of Aerith for Slave Maker 3 and did his original Unnamed Text Game.  Almost all of the earliest entries in the game are very rough compared to the parts that were added later.  The game's life is very much a big improvement story for every writer, including Fen.  I'd say that this is a good thing, since it means that with each new project we have a steady growing level of overall quality in the content being added to the games.

And soon he will grow too powerful and throw off his shackles of smut so he may arise to greatness
 

Serathinian

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2015
101
2
I admit, I'm a little upset that CoC isn't going to be finished. But then again it's a free text adventure flash game so it's not surprising that it'd get buried under other projects.

Still. While I am sad about CoC I've decided to give TiTS a try. It seems like most of blog posts are TiTS related so at least I know it's still thriving.
 

Bravanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
97
0
I admit, I'm a little upset that CoC isn't going to be finished. But then again it's a free text adventure flash game so it's not surprising that it'd get buried under other projects.

A game like CoC really isn't ever "finished" to satisfaction, though, by its very nature. More or less everything could be expanded upon, so every piece of content is going to be viewed through the lens of "and then what happened?". Take Helia for example: after any one of her expansions she could have very reasonably been said to have been finished. But once something has a fandom, people will always want more. Especially the characters that people love, and with a game that caters to fetishes every scrap of content is going to have a few very ardent supporters. For someone out there, Corruption of Champions won't be finished until Dominika gets two more expansions, or you can impregnate the Sand Witch Queen, or you can move your camp into that glade with all the pussy flowers.

There's no answer everyone will accept; it's slutty turtles all the way down.
 
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Serathinian

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2015
101
2
A game like CoC really isn't ever "finished" to satisfaction, though, by its very nature. More or less everything could be expanded upon, so every piece of content is going to be viewed through the lens of "and then what happened?". Take Helia for example: after any one of her expansions she could have very reasonably been said to have been finished. But once something has a fandom, people will always want more. Especially the characters that people love, and with a game that caters to fetishes every scrap of content is going to have a few very ardent supporters. For someone out there, Corruption of Champions won't be finished until Dominika gets two more expansions, or you can impregnate the Sand Witch Queen, or you can move your camp into that glade with all the pussy flowers.

There's no answer everyone will accept; it's slutty turtles all the way down.

I was talking more about the content that was planned but didn't make it in. Ember's Corrupt and Pure forms and Urta's shared pregnancy are examples of things that were supposed to be.

Oh and the Helspawn incest scene is one people mention a lot. Other people anyway. I avoid that type of thing.
 

TheDarkMaster

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 28, 2015
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I was talking more about the content that was planned but didn't make it in. Ember's Corrupt and Pure forms and Urta's shared pregnancy are examples of things that were supposed to be.

Oh and the Helspawn incest scene is one people mention a lot. Other people anyway. I avoid that type of thing.

Hellspawn incest is one of those things that the game gives the indication should be in the game, but isn't.  Before the Phoenix quest got in, Helia was a fully self contained character with no loose ends.  After that, there was always a hook in the game for the next set of planned content which everyone was always looking forward to and requesting.  A lot of the characters suffer from overambitious authors (myself included) who plan to write far more than they actually end up writing and hint towards that content in what content they did finish.  This is where the incomplete plot issue arises, since you have content that is obviously unfinished.  Wanting closure is different from wanting an expansion to a character for the sake of having more content for that character.
 
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Bravanger

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Aug 26, 2015
97
0
Right, I agree that it's human nature to want loose ends to be tied, even if I don't think you could ever get everyone to agree that they had even been tied completely. I also think we can all agree that the tragicomedy that was the presumptive Helspawn expansion was its own situation, rather than an author promising and then not delivering.
 

Foxxling

Scientist
Creator
well at least once hellspawn scene has been written... quite a while ago

Right, I agree that it's human nature to want loose ends to be tied, even if I don't think you could ever get everyone to agree that they had even been tied completely. I also think we can all agree that the tragicomedy that was the presumptive Helspawn expansion was its own situation, rather than an author promising and then not delivering.

I would say its human nature to want more.

look at AAA story telling games by bioware and bethesda, those characters catch hell for a lot of reasons from their sexuality to their lack of content even though they are 100% finished.
 
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EmperorG

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2015
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Literally you actively make people's lives worse by doing this.  You teach them that if they bitch and beg for long enough then they'll get whatever they want.  You do this knowing before you even start that the results will be shovelware because you're working off incomplete documents, meaning this is the point where Ember's own writer decided enough was enough.  It also means those documents are not proofread or edited, they have not had the good ideas sifted out from the bad.  You have to know this, and you have to know better than this.

Oy, simmer down Couch (and the rest of you angry writers), what Kitteh does is give people an alternative to just bitching at Fen and the lot of you. It might not be perfect, but no need to insult him every day of the week, it's good enough to satisfy the remaining CoC fanbase. I get it all of you have a problem with Kitteh, but seriously, to anyone who might not know the full story and just see's you lot launching personal attacks on every new thread that mentions the mod it makes you all seem like dicks.

If you're all truly done with CoC, then why are you all prowling around in it's subforum ready to leap into action? If you want nothing more to do with it then just ignore this subforum, and you'll stop seeing all these threads asking for CoC back, so you can live happy lives writing for TiTs. (At least until TiTs successor comes along and we repeat this shit samba all over again)
 

Savin

Master Analmander
Staff member
Aug 26, 2015
6,263
10,230
If you're all truly done with CoC, then why are you all prowling around in it's subforum ready to leap into action?

Because I must be ever-vigilant against the mod stealing or altering my work. 

Which, incidentally, is one of my biggest problems with the mod -- that they'll blithely just take unfinished or discarded projects and include them without asking, or change an author's work without permission. 
 

Foxxling

Scientist
Creator
Because I must be ever-vigilant against the mod stealing or altering my work. 

Which, incidentally, is one of my biggest problems with the mod -- that they'll blithely just take unfinished or discarded projects and include them without asking, or change an author's work without permission. 

I can see why that would be an issue for many writers. I personally don't have a problem with it unless whats added contradicts lore or established characterization. Like making Akbal a follower, fuck that noise he can't leave the forrest how is he going to be in your camp? He won't, thats how.

Like if I were Jojo's writer I'd be pissed. Pure Jojo having sex scenes isn't the issue but there should be some epic quest or way beyond talking that you get that because Jojo's chasity is a big part of his character. It should take more than just, "But... I want to." for Jojo to be ok with it.

And the scenes make him into a cock slut (if you're a guy like me) right off the bat. No devirginization or process to open the virgin up just heres my dick, oh you're a natural! how convenient
 
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Magic Ted

Forum God
Moderator
Aug 26, 2015
744
478
If you're all truly done with CoC, then why are you all prowling around in it's subforum ready to leap into action? If you want nothing more to do with it then just ignore this subforum, and you'll stop seeing all these threads asking for CoC back, so you can live happy lives writing for TiTs. (At least until TiTs successor comes along and we repeat this shit samba all over again)

What fucked up logic is this? Believe it or not you aren't the core of the community, the single voice, there's hordes of the fuckers that come in and out and ask the same questions and push the same "BUT MUH WAIFUS" agenda, people will always post in CoC. And, hey, most of the folks sassing it with those colored names are, ya know, invested in CoC. The only way you'll stop getting threads asking for CoC back is scrubbing it off the site.

HMMM

don't be dumb tia
 

Serathinian

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2015
101
2
I can see why that would be an issue for many writers. I personally don't have a problem with it unless whats added contradicts lore or established characterization. Like making Akbal a follower, fuck that noise he can't leave the forrest how is he going to be in your camp? He won't, thats how.

Like if I were Jojo's writer I'd be pissed. Pure Jojo having sex scenes isn't the issue but there should be some epic quest or way beyond talking that you get that because Jojo's chasity is a big part of his character. It should take more than just, "But... I want to." for Jojo to be ok with it.

And the scenes make him into a cock slut (if you're a guy like me) right off the bat. No devirginization or process to open the virgin up just heres my dick, oh you're a natural! how convenient

I don't actually recall him mentioning a vow of chastity. It seems to me Jojo is just asexual, he just isn't interested in sex.

“Like I said, I don’t get why sex is so overly important to these creatures...” - Jojo on the subject of the Cum Witch

I wouldn't want Pure Jojo sex scenes but I would imagine you'd have to change his mind on sex as a whole. Have him go through some quest or other life changing experience that changes his perspective. Seeing that while the demons have sex for lustful reasons sex can be all about passion. The desire to make your partner just as satisfied and not just use them as a fuck toy. Hell, Amily's arc is kinda similar.

...Or I could be wrong. Maybe he already knows that and still doesn't care, choosing chastity to avoid the corrupt temptations of Mareth.
 

Foxxling

Scientist
Creator
I'm sure he is.

btw do you know who jojo's writer was anyway?

I don't actually recall him mentioning a vow of chastity. It seems to me Jojo is just asexual, he just isn't interested in sex.

“Like I said, I don’t get why sex is so overly important to these creatures...” - Jojo on the subject of the Cum Witch

I wouldn't want Pure Jojo sex scenes but I would imagine you'd have to change his mind on sex as a whole. Have him go through some quest or other life changing experience that changes his perspective. Seeing that while the demons have sex for lustful reasons sex can be all about passion. The desire to make your partner just as satisfied and not just use them as a fuck toy. Hell, Amily's arc is kinda similar.

...Or I could be wrong. Maybe he already knows that and still doesn't care, choosing chastity to avoid the corrupt temptations of Mareth.

He talks about taking vows in the talk options

Instead of sex dispensery what i really want to see are quests with jojo where you explore the history of the celestial lotus to provide character growth and possibly some new techniques for both you and Jojo to learn. But since i'm unwilling to write such a thing I don't expect it to ever happen.
 

Fisto

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
629
9
I wouldn't want Pure Jojo sex scenes but I would imagine you'd have to change his mind on sex as a whole. Have him go through some quest or other life changing experience that changes his perspective.

I think that's what the repeated 'surprise sex' from PC was for.
 
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Serathinian

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2015
101
2
I personally don't want Pure Jojo sex scenes.

I already have a fucking harem of lovers and not enough time to fuck them all. Maybe I could pencil Jojo in for Tuesday but it'd have to be quick. I have date with Amily, then Kiha, then I need to go climb the highest mountain and beat the shit out of a hermaphroditic Centaur.

Busy busy busy.
 

TheInfamousImmortal

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2015
695
118
Like if I were Jojo's writer I'd be pissed. Pure Jojo having sex scenes isn't the issue but there should be some epic quest or way beyond talking that you get that because Jojo's chasity is a big part of his character. It should take more than just, "But... I want to." for Jojo to be ok with it.

I never even had the idea of sexing him cross my mind when I played CoC. There was one part of bimbo Jojo (ugh yes I know BIMBO, why?) that made sense to me, and its when you talk to her about herself that she confesses that Jojo had feelings for the PC, but he locked those feeling away out of fear that he would become too attached to you and then end up losing you. TO ME it makes sense, because he lost everything/nearly everything that he doesn't want to lose a loved one again, it might haunt him. Though now that we're on this topic, I wouldn't mind if a relationship with him went along the lines of him gaining affection for the pc and then opening up to you and then later is willing to have sex with you, he doesn't have to turn into a slut just for him to have and enjoy sex. Hell, if this relationship were to be created I could see it being a very romantic and intimate relationship. But that's just me.

And the scenes make him into a cock slut (if you're a guy like me) right off the bat. No devirginization or process to open the virgin up just heres my dick, oh you're a natural! how convenient

if that's true about his pure sex scenes, then I would go so far as to demand either a rewrite of it that it fits with Jojo or don't even put in the game.

Instead of sex dispensery what i really want to see are quests with jojo where you explore the history of the celestial lotus to provide character growth and possibly some new techniques for both you and Jojo to learn. But since i'm unwilling to write such a thing I don't expect it to ever happen.

wouldn't that basically be the next level of training, and lead to gaining the unimplemented chi perks?
 

Fisto

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
629
9
There was one part of bimbo Jojo (ugh yes I know BIMBO, why?) 

That's fens fetish :#

if that's true about his pure sex scenes, then I would go so far as to demand either a rewrite of it that it fits with Jojo or don't even put in the game.

Nah man they need a re-write, kinda bland currently. Also as foxxling said he jumps into it too fast for a 'Holy' mouseketeer, I could see a way of it doing stuff 
 

TheDarkMaster

Well-Known Member
Creator
Aug 28, 2015
1,052
259
Jojo was one of the very first things added to the game.  Basically his only reason for existence was to be something for corrupt players to corrupt.  That rape button and subsequently turning him into a pet/slave was what he was intended to be and nothing more.  He was also the first character to have progression, something that changed from encounter to encounter with an actual sequence/quest-line.  I don't know why Fen choose a male to do that, but the idea of twisting a pure monk is probably why.  I don't think Fen intended to do much more with him, except to let you bring him into the camp in order to offer an alternative against imp attacks that didn't require you to corrupt Merae.
 

Fisto

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
629
9
 I don't know why Fen choose a male to do that.

In a camp full of people who got the 'hots' for PC it's nice to have people like Jojo or rathazul as friends rather than love interest.

Three musketeers Jojo, rathazul and PC.  Pure, smart, and then there is the anomaly that is the champion
 

TheDarkMaster

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Creator
Aug 28, 2015
1,052
259
In a camp full of people who got the 'hots' for PC it's nice to have people like Jojo or rathazul as friends rather than love interest.

Hidden Content

Jojo existed when the only other content was: the imp, the bee girl, the minotaur, a pale skinned succubus (since removed), the sand witch, and the tentacle monster.
 
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Serathinian

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2015
101
2
In a camp full of people who got the 'hots' for PC it's nice to have people like Jojo or rathazul as friends rather than love interest.

Hidden Content

1) If you hit on Rathazul he'd probably keel over.

2) When the PC is in Rath's presence their lust will drop rapidly, implying that just looking at him is boner killer.

3) He probably smells like ass, and not in a good way.

4) The mental image of Rathazul nude and thrusting. 'Nuff said.