When Will Bethesda Modernize?

[Veilwolf]

I've looking into Bethesda Games habit of using the same archaic engine gamebryo which they have been using since fallout 2. Shit there is only so much weight you can load on an old horse before it's back breaks. I honestly can't remember the name of the game(an alien type action shooter) one xbox 360 but it used four of the best engines at the time Euphoria, Unreal Engine 3, Chrome Engine, Cryware and Havok there was at least six engines running on that game. But yeah I am dumbfound to why bethesda refused to get rid of gamebryo I dissected the code used in skyrim which was full of memory leaks and incompatible software/ hardware code well this issue applies mainly to consoles not so much on pc unless you have a low amount of RAM than its on somewhat equal ground Unless your a nexus mods guru.

 

[ScarletteKnight]

When it starts to destroy their sales and kill the company, forcing them to put in the extra effort. Probably when they start letting whoever does the good sidequests work on the main story too, or stop scaling worlds down to unbelievably small sizes.

Seriously, the Holds of Skyrim aren't even small towns, they're basically little villages.

 

[Evil]

Nah. Bethesda won't do anything. Switching over to a new engine for a game is an expensive proposition and let's be honest, Bethesda are quite cheap. They'll squeeze that engine for every penny they can until the thing breaks.

If a game engine were to have as many bugs, memory leaks or glitches that gamebryo does, another company would create a new engine. Bethesda just make a joke about the bugs being entertaining, which we laugh at and forget about, meaning that Bethesda doesn't have to spend any money rectifying the problem.

 

[Magic Ted]

who's going to compete with them to up the ante

they've sold skyrim for like eight years on different systems and the consumers are happy, take a step back. why would they throw all this money into the "fix up and make a new engine" when it's clear they don't need to for their core audience, which can be anywhere from console players to just people trawling steam sales. this is not a new trend. you can thumb over to something like grand theft auto as the opposite, but that's also something with a hot array of competition (and, granted, their competition usually faceplants with style)

 

[BubbleLord]

I've looking into Bethesda Games habit of using the same archaic engine gamebryo which they have been using since fallout 2. Shit there is only so much weight you can load on an old horse before it's back breaks. I honestly can't remember the name of the game(an alien type action shooter) one xbox 360 but it used four of the best engines at the time Euphoria, Unreal Engine 3, Chrome Engine, Cryware and Havok there was at least six engines running on that game. But yeah I am dumbfound to why bethesda refused to get rid of gamebryo I dissected the code used in skyrim which was full of memory leaks and incompatible software/ hardware code well this issue applies mainly to consoles not so much on pc unless you have a low amount of RAM than its on somewhat equal ground Unless your a nexus mods guru.

I like that Fallout 2 wasn't even a Bethesda game.

 

[Ch0w]

well bethesda for quite some time already is just milking cash from fans
just like Ubisoft and assasins creed or dark souls and fromsoftware, it doesnt matter if its good or if its a good port, what matter is that it's in several places to sell.
Bethesda prefers to wait for fans to make mods to fix their games, instead of actually working on them.

i never understood, and never will, what people liked about skyrim it was just so bad in everything to me that i never managed to finish it.
Or maybe i got spoiled because in that same year Witcher 2 was released, and bastion, and Mass Effect 2 had more dlcs, also deus ex human revolution, and saints row 3, and crysis 2 and dead space 2 and dragon age 2,and infamous 2, and holy shit so many games in 2011 - 2012 - 2013 - 2014 better than skyrim to play, now makes sense.

 

[ScarletteKnight]

I just want some people to play D&D with. Me and both of my irl friends, currently hundreds of miles away from me, would prefer to be players instead of DM, and probably suck at it. We're also busy, and unable to align schedules as a loser, a college student, and a Marine...

Anyway, Bethesda hasn't been doing great in the story department, or the gameplay department, and I have lost faith in them.

 

[Linarahn]

Bethesda hasn't exactly been the greatest in terms of actually making games, especially once they started to move away more and more from creating actual RPGs which require a slow, involved process to make in the first place. The proof is in the pudding, as they say, with Fallout New Vegas being said pudding. I find it amazing that Obsidian managed to crank that game out with all the mandates from corporate Bethesda on what they should do and in what timeframe (and it's still many people's favorite Fallout title to date, so that's saying a lot.)

Where Bethesda shines is in being a publisher for other studios - especially when the suits can't meddle in the product.

 

[Ch0w]

I just want some people to play D&D with. Me and both of my irl friends, currently hundreds of miles away from me, would prefer to be players instead of DM, and probably suck at it. We're also busy, and unable to align schedules as a loser, a college student, and a Marine...

I feel you, our OG dnd party is also facing similar problems for quite some time, we barely manage to schedule online meetings 1 time per month with everyone, one got married, other two have crazy work hours, one is deep in college and one is in another country.

i tried moving to online rpg groups using ROLL20 and other sites, but it's never the same.
At least people like me as DM, as several groups of both roll20 and other places keep asking me to go back and DM a new game for them online.

the problem of being a DM for so so long, is that sometimes you wish to just be a player, i've being a DM for over 12 years, since DND second edition(advanced dungeons and dragons) and that awful TACO

 

[Tinman]

well bethesda for quite some time already is just milking cash from fans
just like Ubisoft and assasins creed or dark souls and fromsoftware, it doesnt matter if its good or if its a good port, what matter is that it's in several places to sell.
Bethesda prefers to wait for fans to make mods to fix their games, instead of actually working on them.

i never understood, and never will, what people liked about skyrim it was just so bad in everything to me that i never managed to finish it.
Or maybe i got spoiled because in that same year Witcher 2 was released, and bastion, and Mass Effect 2 had more dlcs, also deus ex human revolution, and saints row 3, and crysis 2 and dead space 2 and dragon age 2,and infamous 2, and holy shit so many games in 2011 - 2012 - 2013 - 2014 better than skyrim to play, now makes sense.

Side quests. Really side quests, and the open world, are the great thing about any Bethesda game. The main story is just there to kickstart events and show players new locations. While that is somewhat disappointing, the main quest takes maybe 2 hours to run through while most people will spend 100-200 hours playing the regular version of any Bethesda game. Throw in the fact that they release a creator's kit that makes modding fairly easy and it's not hard to spend 600+ hours on a single game. Compare that to literally any other game (even Witcher 2) and it's not hard to see why people might like Bethesda's games more.

 

[Linarahn]

Side quests. Really side quests, and the open world, are the great thing about any Bethesda game. The main story is just there to kickstart events and show players new locations. While that is somewhat disappointing, the main quest takes maybe 2 hours to run through while most people will spend 100-200 hours playing the regular version of any Bethesda game. Throw in the fact that they release a creator's kit that makes modding fairly easy and it's not hard to spend 600+ hours on a single game. Compare that to literally any other game (even Witcher 2) and it's not hard to see why people might like Bethesda's games more.

On the flipside, Bethesda really screwed the pooch on the past two or three main story hooks by giving you such a predetermined role to play within the world. Fallout 3 was okay (if you cared for the dad at all), New Vegas (the Obsidian one) served you a lot of freedom and a revenge plot that only vaguely tied into who your character was before, but both Fallout 4 and Skyrim expect you to fulfill a much more specific role within the setting, even if you do not at all want to deal with that. In my opinion, Skyrim gets away with it a little more because Thu'um is actually fun and while you being Dohvakiin pops up every other second, you're not -quite- as tied down.

What I'm trying to say is, they should go take a good, hard look at Morrowind, Oblivion and New Vegas' plot hooks to find what works in the player's favor.

 

[null_blank]

I really liked FO4.

But there are caveats to that.

I...

Ignored the main story.
Ignored the Minute Man story line.
Ignored the BoS story line.
Ignored the Railroad story line.
Ignored the Institute story line.
Ignored the settlement system.
Ignored companions after getting their unique (read: shit) perks. Except Dogmeat.
Installed a shit ton of mods that address the many quality-of-life issues that plague Fo4.
Ignore the fact this game is sub-optimized.

I built my not-so-little base at Starlight Drive-in and wandered around the Boston wasteland, scrounging for parts.

At one point I started doing the main quest and had to tattoo her kid's name to her neck because I kept forgetting about the little shit.

Spoiler

 

[Linarahn]

I really liked FO4.

But there are caveats to that.

I...

Ignored the main story.
Ignored the Minute Man story line.
Ignored the BoS story line.
Ignored the Railroad story line.
Ignored the Institute story line.
Ignored the settlement system.
Ignored companions after getting their unique (read: shit) perks. Except Dogmeat.
Installed a shit ton of mods that address the many quality-of-life issues that plague Fo4.
Ignore the fact this game is sub-optimized.

So you played the game not as Bethesda intended but predicted because of their BS?

 

[null_blank]

So you played the game not as Bethesda intended but predicted because of their BS?

No, I did a standard run through first. Didn't like the game. I hate the addition of a voiced protagonist. Being burdened with a backstory I can handle but at least give me a silent protag. Also, if you should choose Nora she suddenly turns from Mom/lawyer into Sarah Conner form Terminator 2. It's not much of a leap for Nate who served in the war but Nora has no background in combat/survival. So Bethesda not only stuck you with a backstory, it isn't even plausible if you chose Nora.

So I ignored everything I didn't like. The combination of main quest/minute man story line/settlement random attacks are what made the game not fun in the first place.

Being a crazed loner in a heavily fortified base if what did it for me.

 

[Linarahn]

Mh, I see!

 

[Evil]

Also, if you should choose Nora she suddenly turns from Mom/lawyer into Sarah Conner form Terminator 2. It's not much of a leap for Nate who served in the war but Nora has no background in combat/survival. So Bethesda not only stuck you with a backstory, it isn't even plausible if you chose Nora.

Not quite. Yeah, Nora having a law degree seems to hamper you a little bit, but then you realise what having a law degree can lead you to:
- Law enforcement (more and more police officers have law degrees and there are specialised roles in the police force that require a law degree, after the training)
- Military law (working for the Judge Advocate General would require Nora to have gone through basic training and done some degree of service)
- Construction/Engineering firms (allowing someone to pick up some of the basics of engineering)
- Administration (think about the logistics of running a large organisation, then think about running something like the Minutemen and the Brotherhood)

Even if Nora did just have a law degree, she was also married to a soldier, who probably taught some of the basics.

But really, I imagine that Nora was already in the armed forces and had some training when she met Nate.

 

[Zavos]

Fallout 4's cardinal sin is that it goes to great lengths to create a background for the player. Simply by entering that world, you are handed a great deal of narrative baggage that might lessen the whole experience for some folks.

 

[null_blank]

Not quite. Yeah, Nora having a law degree seems to hamper you a little bit, but then you realise what having a law degree can lead you to:
- Law enforcement (more and more police officers have law degrees and there are specialised roles in the police force that require a law degree, after the training)
- Military law (working for the Judge Advocate General would require Nora to have gone through basic training and done some degree of service)
- Construction/Engineering firms (allowing someone to pick up some of the basics of engineering)
- Administration (think about the logistics of running a large organisation, then think about running something like the Minutemen and the Brotherhood)

Even if Nora did just have a law degree, she was also married to a soldier, who probably taught some of the basics.

But really, I imagine that Nora was already in the armed forces and had some training when she met Nate.

No, this is the problem with background baggage given by the game. There is little to no wiggle room for Nora.

 

[Linarahn]

Fallout 4's cardinal sin is that it goes to great lengths to create a background for the player. Simply by entering that world, you are handed a great deal of narrative baggage that might lessen the whole experience for some folks.

Also this. I'm honestly not at all fond of the idea that your character is a parent hellbent on finding their kid. There's zero attachment to the brat (or the spouse, for that matter). And while it's legit motivation to brave the Wasteland, it's taking agency away from the player.

You'd at least think they'd give you the option of:
-Having a kid
- not having a kid
- having an adopted kid
- being as gay as they come, considering what I heard about ingame "romances"

 

[null_blank]

"dey moidered my spouse and took muh son!"

Oh hey a side quest.

117 hours later

Spoiler

"Yeah I know you asked for help with some raiders down the street but I couldn't help but notice your poor defenses, food supplies, infrastructure and economy. Try not to let the place go to ruins as I go looking for...uh...what's his name again?"

 

[ScarletteKnight]

This is literally me.

 

[Linarahn]

...that reminds me. 200 years later -> why does the MC think, even for a second, that their brat is still alive?

 

[null_blank]

I'm gonna build houses!

"Codsworth, you could do with a bit of a touch up yourself..."

"Madam..."

48 hours later

Spoiler

 

[Ethereal Dragon]

Sooner or later they're going to reach a point where they can't put anything more under the hood of that engine. Another game company did the same thing for basically 90% of their games and that was Egosoft the developers of the famed X-universe series open universe sandbox space sim. It was only until X3: Albion Prelude did they decide that they couldn't do anymore with the engine and decided to create a whole new one, of course the release of X Rebirth could have gone better if they hadn't released it in such a buggy state and basically stripped the mechanics of the previous games out and tried to do too much different stuff. They've learned from that mistake and brought back lots of things into X4 that were in previous games.

Sufficient to say Bethesda will eventually have to put that engine of a horse down that they use, when will it happen who knows?

 

[Klaptrap]

I think it really depends on the quality of TES VI and Starfield. People keep saying that the bad reviews of Fallout 76 isn't just because it's a bad game, but also because people are fed up with the generally poor state in which the last few games have been presented. That may be true, but I think it's too early to tell. Now if Starfield bombs, then all bets are off.

 

[ScarletteKnight]

...that reminds me. 200 years later -> why does the MC think, even for a second, that their brat is still alive?

I guess, for some reason, they think the kidnapping and their escape happened pretty simultaneously. Not only do they expect Shaun alive, but they're looking for a baby. Shaun counted on his parent being that stupid too, when he had Cornflakes raise the special android at the time he did, to leave a trail back to himself.

"Codsworth, you could do with a bit of a touch up yourself..."

"Madam..."

48 hours later

Spoiler

View attachment 8421

What in the Nine Hells did you do?

 

[Linarahn]

I guess, for some reason, they think the kidnapping and their escape happened pretty simultaneously. Not only do they expect Shaun alive, but they're looking for a baby. Shaun counted on his parent being that stupid too, when he had Cornflakes raise the special android at the time he did, to leave a trail back to himself.

....this is a new low, even for idiot protagonists. And I already hate those as is.

 

[ScarletteKnight]

....this is a new low, even for idiot protagonists. And I already hate those as is.

It is exceptionally bad. Bethesda has never had the most amazing main story quests, but their writing overall has lowered significantly, in my opinion.

 

[ElyssaSteele]

No, this is the problem with background baggage given by the game. There is little to no wiggle room for Nora.

Agreed. Backstory isn't a problem in and of itself, if it is written well. Its purpose is to ground and connect the PC to the world.

Fallout 4's backstory provided that acceptably well for Nick. For Nora ... not so much.

 

[Nebula]

A Bethesda hate bandwagon? *rubs hands*
I still play Fallout 4 up to this day but not as a Fallout game or an RPG in general, rather like a sandbox where I just build shit and play dress ups. That's the only thing that game is good for imo. Still prefer it over Fallout 3 (which I absolutely despise), though. At this point I simply hope Bethesda goes bankrupt and sells the franchise to someone more suitable.