What is your opinion on Kasyrra's possible redemption?

Melakoth

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Jul 22, 2021
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Title.

On the one hand, she has done a bunch of horrible shit to a lot of people such as raping out their souls and turning them into demons, and making the post-apocalyptic situation worse.

On the other hand, she isn't the way she is by choice.

But then again, you could make the argument that even if she isn't a demon by choice, the things she has done still cannot and should not be excused.

Your thoughts?
 

Karakara

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Feb 15, 2024
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I mean, puryfing her is basically destroying her corrupt self. So depending on your definition, the purification path, if it exists, is pretty much deletion of her.

As to redeeming her while she remains as she is -- no. Her arrival caused countless suffering and deaths. And I know that fiction has a nasty tendency to, unless the character name is in the top billing, treat the no named mobs culling as a nothing more than a stepping stone towards her redemption. There is no real moral high ground on could find for letting her live free besides the fact that one finds her smoking -- like the corpses she left behind.

Having said that, I do like to emphasize aint in Saint, so I am going to make her my main cardinal sin -- also my wife.
 
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Zeus101

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May 5, 2023
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Killing her as soon as we get the option, can't turn a blind eye to all the crap she's been doing, I like Aileh and Calise though so I'm super exited to see how all of that will play out
 

Alliebutt

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Mar 5, 2021
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I mean, puryfing her is basically destroying her corrupt self. So depending on your definition, the purification path, if it exists, is pretty much deletion of her.

As to redeeming her while she remains as she is -- no. Her arrival caused countless suffering and deaths. And I know that fiction has a nasty tendency to, unless the character name is in the top billing, treat the no named mobs culling as a nothing more than a stepping stone towards her redemption. There is no real moral high ground on could find for letting her live free besides the fact that one finds her smoking -- like the corpses she left behind.

Having said that, I do like to emphasize aint in Saint, so I am going to make her my main cardinal sin -- also my wife.
If you ask me, purifying her is a far heavier punishment than killing her ever would be. Sure she could accomplish her dream/obsession of having kids, but there's a crucial thing that seems to be overlooked. If she gets her soul shoved back into her, she'll feel everything a creature with a soul would. She would have empathy, feel guilt, feel regret. Everything she's done to reach her goal? She knows those things are morally wrong even as a demon, she just doesn't care because she doesn't have the capabilities to actually do so. With a soul? Oooh boy, those terrible wrongs she's done? Yeah she'll suddenly start to really care that what she did was wrong, and that will weight real hard on her shoulders and soul. It's frankly the best and most deserved punishment to give her, since death would be instantaneous and she would never have to live with the consequences of her actions.

Edit: I meant to mention Zeus, not you Karakara. Sorry bout that x3
 
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Zeus101

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May 5, 2023
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If you ask me, purifying her is a far heavier punishment than killing her ever would be. Sure she could accomplish her dream/obsession of having kids, but there's a crucial thing that seems to be overlooked. If she gets her soul shoved back into her, she'll feel everything a creature with a soul would. She would have empathy, feel guilt, feel regret. Everything she's done to reach her goal? She knows those things are morally wrong even as a demon, she just doesn't care because she doesn't have the capabilities to actually do so. With a soul? Oooh boy, those terrible wrongs she's done? Yeah she'll suddenly start to really care that what she did was wrong, and that will weight real hard on her shoulders and soul. It's frankly the best and most deserved punishment to give her, since death would be instantaneous and she would never have to live with the consequences of her actions.

Edit: I meant to mention Zeus, not you Karakara. Sorry bout that x3
That would be too merciful if death is too quick she deserve something much worse than a second shot at life
 
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Alliebutt

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Mar 5, 2021
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That would be too merciful is death is too quick she deserve something much worse than a second shot at life
I wouldn't classify it as a second life personally, but then again I'm looking at it from a mental punishment perspective. Unlike being in a cell, or getting a quick and fast ending, my look at it is a lifetime of mental torment for knowing just how much pain, death, and anguish she's caused. It's shame and regret and self-hate she has to carry for the rest of her days, and something that won't ever go away until she eventually does die. The best she could do at that point to alleviate her own self-hate and regret would be to try and do better in the world, and to try and make up for her own actions along the way in order to deal with how she's feeling. At that point, she's getting a life-time mental self-inflicted punishment, combined with self-imposed community service in order to make up for her actions. That's a net positive if you ask me.
 

Karakara

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Feb 15, 2024
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The thing is, considering recent events, I am not sure that the game would really want to sour the good ending with Kas with an excert "And so, with traumatize and guilt striken Kas right by their side, the champion adventure ends. Incidently, therapy as a profession prospered not long after."
 

Alliebutt

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Mar 5, 2021
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The thing is, considering recent events, I am not sure that the game would really want to sour the good ending with Kas with an excert "And so, with traumatize and guilt striken Kas right by their side, the champion adventure ends. Incidently, therapy as a profession prospered not long after."

Oh yeah, they wouldn't want to do that. But I wasn't necessarily talking about the romance route. On that path I wouldn't want to do that myself either, I was more thinking of it as being one solution to 'beat' her even on rival or hostile, in the same way we get the choice in locking up the frigid elf 'queen' or killing her outright. In her case, imprisonment is the worst outcome for her, but for Kas it could be to outright doom her to deal with the mess she caused after you've forced positive emotions back into her after you ultimately beat her. I'd consider that a 'redemption' of her even if it isn't the 'redemption' path most people think of when they hear that word. In that case they think of the romance path, but I'd see both options as fundamentally being a redemption, hence why I brought it up here. I can't see a reason why an option like that wouldn't be an option for non-romance paths as both a punishment and as a way to solve the menace that is Kas.
 

Yokohama

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Feb 19, 2020
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@Alliebutt Im personally of the opinion that in both future possible paths of turning Kas back to mortal and the less likely branch in which turning her has any real negative effect on her, both will be locked behind romance path as that's the only path where the champ shows real concern or interest in her condition.
 

SomeNobody

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Dec 18, 2020
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I can fix her.
That's kind of the problem boss; when the developers of the game are favourtising the ridiculously monstrous primary villain and switching in the game from portraying her as a literal soulless devil who invincibly violates and despoils her way across the world making it worse for everyone while the player can do little to stop her into a perfect little cinnamon bun who even the so-called gods of the setting are going out of their way to hand a perfect Good End to (despite her threatening to reignite another Godswar with her actions) that's an issue with the writing.
Its shrugging off the weight of her crimes/position as the primary antagonist just because people want to fuck the demon waifu.

If the player either joins her in villainy as she remain a demon or she's turned back into a mortal by PC action and in regaining her soul being ultimately traumatised by the memories of the crushing scale of evil and harm she has inflicted in that lifetime of demonhood crashing down (leaving the player to care for her as the romance path) those would in the process of providing alternate game paths both maintain some sort of consequence for the plot, not just the supposed villain getting to have her cake and eat it too.

In the past staff on this forum would harp on heavily about how this game isn't a "Power Fantasy" as in the writing or setting had some inspired noble legitimacy pushing it above and beyond a 'mere' porn game. But with characters like Kas, the Seven or the likes of the Kitsune Treehouse it instead comes across that this game very much IS a power fantasy, but for the writers and their pet characters being inserted into an existing universe instead.
 
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Karakara

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Feb 15, 2024
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The game was always a power fantasy. Like, our two most popular companions are just two Waifus, and the most popular content is always catered to "only for you" crowd. So I am not quite sure what is this whole "Power fantasy" comes from. Champ can not solo the game? On story mode they can. The champ is not the most important person in the world? They are since the villains will win if they do not get involved

If you play as a straight male champ, all women slobber over your dick, you can turn a male whore into your loyal wife, and the big bad is obsessed with you. This is a power fantasy through and through.
 
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Ace Hangman

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Sep 16, 2021
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Ultimately, my opinion on the thread topic is: I am fine with her redemption path (in so far as what I've seen written and available), as long as it's good writing and an exciting story with challenges and conflict and maybe a little sex in there once in a while. I'll do it with one Champ, and if there's an option to side against her, I'll do that with another Champ and see what happens. I will probably like one outcome better than the other... and there's a chance that will be different from the outcome some other people like.
 

PalletTown

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Sep 10, 2015
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Personally, one of the things I love most about CoC II is that Kasyrra is a very nuanced villain. I won't deny that Kas is evil and caused immense suffering to Savarra either through her direct action, her empowering very bad people, or just the introduction of corrupt magic in an already post-apocalyptic world.

Interestingly enough, I always found that Kas motivated by a malformed heroism that is a twisted reflection of her past. In a sense, she is "halping" people, but she is so self-absorbed that she really doesn't care about the consequences of her "halping" outside of how it benefits her. Take Alissa for example. Kas did indeed "halp" Alissa get an heir, but Kas probably never asked herself "should I help this person" or "what will happen to Alissa or the Elves if I help them." Once Kas got what she wanted, it was not of her concern. This pattern is very similar to the Alrune. Kas helped the Alrune, but ceased caring once she achieved her objectives.

Another factor that make Kas interesting is how her power clashes with her obsession. Demons become basically motivated by their obsession. Generally, their motivation is either sex, money, and power, and their demonhood actually helps in pursuing their obsession. Now their obsession will never be satisfied, but they can always work on it. Farrah will never have enough money, but she can always earn more money.

For Kas, her Demonhood makes her obsessed over the one thing that Demonhood robs you. The ability to have children and form a family. Now Kas tries very ways to get around this, her most successful being her adoption of the Dragons, but even then Demonhood cheats Kas.

I don't think Kas is truly capable of loving someone else. I not saying that she doesn't want to. She tries to and can create a facsimile to love. If you pursue a relationship with Kas, she will be fond of you, care about you, and want to be with you, but you will be first and foremost a means to an end.
 
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Zeus101

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May 5, 2023
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What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure my champ never did anything half as bad all the corrupting and basically ruining the world shit Kas got going on
 

Kuzya

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Feb 17, 2019
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It should be possible but the price should be heavy for an example a pc has to become her slave-overseer untill the end of the world i would dig that
 
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Necros

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Nov 23, 2020
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I don't really want to have redemption route for Kas where she goes full human. maybe get a bit of empathy via the fake/blessed soul ring she has, but permanently. Just enough to actually be capable of love, but not enough to have sweeping personality changes like going full redemption.
 

Zeus101

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May 5, 2023
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So, you tell me how the champ can't be as bad or even worse than Kas
Again what you are saying doesn't make any sense, you're pointing out what the champ COULD DO OR BE, everyone plays their champ differently none of that's canon but with Kas it's the same evil bastard out there doing all that shit not some different version and we're not talking about what she could be doing because she's done all of that already. So why are you pointing out what the champ can do, does it make Kas look any better? It's like you're telling me that if you romance her none of the evil crap she's done happened lol
 
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Zeus101

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May 5, 2023
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I don't any of that shit I never romance her and I don't plan to do it, and about Aileh if she was doing all the shit Kas is doing I'd off her no problem, and are you talking about the fox bastards that tried to rape the champ if they reject them? Lmao they deserve everything that happened after that point, and with Calise my champ don't know who she is and I don't self insert when playing games so my pc don't know what's going on there, don't want to say more because of spoilers? Look if Kas wasn't as bad as she is and enjoying all the chaos she's caused I'd have no prob with a redemption arc but from what my pc see and hear in the game she doesn't deserve shit. I just saw that last reply wth lol what's bad about killing her and doing the world a favour? Are we killing and angel, hero, saint, good person? And this is the last time I'm replying because this whole argument is pointless
 
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MagicGal

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Aug 15, 2023
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Right above the center of your Dreams
f you don't tell Viviane about the Succubus, you are pretty much damning her to become a Demon. In order to have sex with Milly the Baker, you have to corrupt her. Break her mind and then you can have sex with her as often as possible. In order to get Sandre & Caera to get rid of their dicks, you got to pretty much mind break them. Refuse to suck off Savo and beat him up instead you earn corruption as a punishment. Just some examples of how evil the champ can be sometimes. Then there's the fact that your champ can if chooses to corrupt the Dawnsword. So, you tell me how the champ can't be as bad or even worse than Kas
Well the mainstory always insist the Champ is the "good guy" and as a pose of corruption points being doled is fairly inconsistent. Think on the Savo scene; we're breaking in to disrupt the Orc camp and potentially free slaves, instead of bargaining to get a blowjob he should've just asked to be freed for a price or the blowjob, slapping the shit out of him is an obligation cause he's written as a fool.

My main beef is that the Rival route is so sparse in comparison. I think the toxic relationship between Batman and Joker might be a good source of inspiration, in a certain light their relationship can be viewed as this weird toxic romantic hate relationship/rivalry.
 
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CboyC95

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Jul 14, 2021
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One thing that I had requested for a long time was an option for the player to tell Kasyrra that what she is doing is wrong.
 

Blackguard

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Jan 16, 2024
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Note, I've never done her romance so I might be lacking critical information. For me, whether someone can be redeemed usually depends on why they're doing evil deeds to begin with. For Kas, it feels like 100% an ego problem. We've seen through demons like Farrah, Sandre, and Caera that they can live life without needing to spread corruption, and yet Kas, someone with years more experience of being a demon, somehow can't do the same. This is important to me since Kas unleashing imps and corruption upon Savara seems to have only been done to prove to herself that she can play demon queen better than Lethice did, someone a world away and likely dead. And when she's done with perfecting her portal magitek, she'll leave the mess she made behind to explore the multiverse. So to me, she's shown a complete disregard for any life that isn't hers or owned by her and all the evil shit she's done has only been done to stoke her ego. With that being her 'why', I just can't see her as someone who can turn over a new leaf when coming to a new world should have been her opportunity to do so. Like literally, she steps through the portal and her first thought is breeding imps to start her conquest instead of trying to learn about the world and how it works. If the PC didn't get their soul nuked, I think she would've accelerated her plans and have gotten the world record in getting smited by the gods. She kind of dumb.
 

SmithEK

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Apr 20, 2021
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Note, I've never done her romance so I might be lacking critical information. For me, whether someone can be redeemed usually depends on why they're doing evil deeds to begin with. For Kas, it feels like 100% an ego problem. We've seen through demons like Farrah, Sandre, and Caera that they can live life without needing to spread corruption, and yet Kas, someone with years more experience of being a demon, somehow can't do the same. This is important to me since Kas unleashing imps and corruption upon Savara seems to have only been done to prove to herself that she can play demon queen better than Lethice did, someone a world away and likely dead. And when she's done with perfecting her portal magitek, she'll leave the mess she made behind to explore the multiverse. So to me, she's shown a complete disregard for any life that isn't hers or owned by her and all the evil shit she's done has only been done to stoke her ego. With that being her 'why', I just can't see her as someone who can turn over a new leaf when coming to a new world should have been her opportunity to do so. Like literally, she steps through the portal and her first thought is breeding imps to start her conquest instead of trying to learn about the world and how it works. If the PC didn't get their soul nuked, I think she would've accelerated her plans and have gotten the world record in getting smited by the gods. She kind of dumb.
I don't know as someone who plays Kas romance on every play through and know the real reason why she wants champs soul, she's definitely not the worst person in CoC2. And with the latest main story content released it makes her a lot more capable of being redeemed unlike baldy and his creepy lot.