What is your opinion on Kasyrra's possible redemption?
- Thread starter Melakoth
- Start date
You can indeed, friend. That's also my chosen way. I really appreciate the devs for the fact that in every Kass encounter there's options for topping her, even domming her in the dream palace.
She could have been just the standard big bad futadom villain, but they put in the extra effort of giving her these kinds of scenes and damn... top tier content.
Personally I’m conflicted. She didn’t become a demon by choice and she is a victim just as much as everyone else affected by the corruption. However she has also essentially started a plague that has mutated people and left them as nothing more than raging id. I don’t totally blame her for her actions because I don’t think she is entirely in control of herself the way a normal person would be. I think I’ll try and redeem her if possible
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Yeah, Kas has all of the consequences of becoming a demon as her "excuse" for being self-centered evil. Tollus and Alissa are evil completely by choice.
That's lame as hell though, other villains existing just to make Kas look more sympathetic 'by comparison'... when she is the heavy lifter that allowed their evil plans to flourish with her unstoppable primary villain powers and actions in the first place.
The likes of Tollus is a loser the player character (or even other characters like Gweyr) can slap around whenever encountering him forcing the wizard to run away with his tail between his legs and no dignity or credibility to be found, Kasyrra on the other hand the only time you get to oppose her its an overpowered hopeless boss fight (and the only reason the player isn't another of her many sexual victims from the start is because unlike everyone else she decided for once to ask for your consent)... and after that point of unstoppable villainy in Winter City she's getting shilled for her redemption be it by the consent of the divine in minotaur town or as the 'kindly grandmother' comically sneaking into the wayfort to have "Heartwarming" moments with the player's dragon daughter.
Everything about her is so contrived because she's split between being the invincible demonic rapist final boss monster and the beloved can-do-no-wrong waifu who in these clashing roles is frequently front-and-centre actively taking part in events and interacting with the PC.
There's honestly a similar issue with the Wraith gods on the plot. They want to be closer to all-powerful D&D Gods but are regularly hanging around where the action is, and with all that unnecessry degree of power they were written to possess more often they're spending their time fucking (or perhaps in the case of Keros fucking-with) the player character instead of taking care of business at hand.
The likes of Tollus is a loser the player character (or even other characters like Gweyr) can slap around whenever encountering him forcing the wizard to run away with his tail between his legs and no dignity or credibility to be found, Kasyrra on the other hand the only time you get to oppose her its an overpowered hopeless boss fight (and the only reason the player isn't another of her many sexual victims from the start is because unlike everyone else she decided for once to ask for your consent)... and after that point of unstoppable villainy in Winter City she's getting shilled for her redemption be it by the consent of the divine in minotaur town or as the 'kindly grandmother' comically sneaking into the wayfort to have "Heartwarming" moments with the player's dragon daughter.
Everything about her is so contrived because she's split between being the invincible demonic rapist final boss monster and the beloved can-do-no-wrong waifu who in these clashing roles is frequently front-and-centre actively taking part in events and interacting with the PC.
There's honestly a similar issue with the Wraith gods on the plot. They want to be closer to all-powerful D&D Gods but are regularly hanging around where the action is, and with all that unnecessry degree of power they were written to possess more often they're spending their time fucking (or perhaps in the case of Keros fucking-with) the player character instead of taking care of business at hand.
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While Tollus is certainly flourishing, his evil plans have been in progress for decades. I'll grant that he's more powerful, but he's actually specifically the one that summoned her to do that, so I kind of count that as 'his doing'.
I don't see how you're saying Kasyrra allowed Alissa to complete her evil plans. She was pretty bad from the very start (at least the start of her reign). Kas arriving just led to a massive orgy with Kas building a portal, not Alissa. In fact, Kas' arrival is what saved Etheryn, she was in for a (if not horrible) at least unwanted and condemned life of marraige to her sister. Kasyrra's arrival actually ended all that, turn Alissa's attention from Ryn and let her escape.
Would you really say she's more of a 'rapist' than anyone else in the world? How many people are you definitively claiming she's 'raped' or otherwise had sex with against their will? Don't get me wrong, she's seductive, she's powerful, she's manipulative, but who exactly are you claiming she's raped? One... two people?
She literally goes around raping the souls out of people like the new demon merchant catgirl, that's a level of defilement above and beyond simple sexual assault. The fact she flippantly births hordes of imps and leaves them to roam free despite her disgust for them means she's also a progenitor of wandering rape given living form which has had a ruinous effect on the people of the land.
You've forgotten Ryn's introduction, Kas was planning nefarious activities for the princess herself after discovering her in the wild but was distracted so left her (literally) hanging for later.
Just because the chaos Big Red caused for the world allowed someone to scamper away from imprisonment through their own effort doesn't mean she saved them. It can in no way be held up as something noble and redeeming versus all the other tragedy and suffering they've intentionally caused for their selfish goals.
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Sooo... one? Maybe? In fact, Farrah doesn't say she was raped. She says her soul was violently fucked out of her. Violent or rough sex is not rape. She may not have expected her soul to come out, but neither did Alissa, and she wasn't raped. There's plenty of times the Champ's soul pops out or (nearly does) and it isn't from rape all the time (usually from sex, but not rape), even if you weren't expecting it. Farrah doesn't like Kasyrra. She wouldn't mince words or cover anything up for her. If she was raped, or beaten unconscious, she'd say it. She has no qualms or morals against speaking her mind.
It's equally possible Kasyrra just encountered Farrah and talked or seduced Farrah into it, preying on her insecurities and feelings of being dirty for having to get sodomized just to pay her debts or get a deal on a bargain. Also possibly it was a combat encounter, but Farrah never seems to hint that she was attacked or beaten. Maybe she knew she couldn't win the fight and surrendered, which is something you the Champ can do, and as the loser, you get sexed by the victor, even rough sex. That's an inherent property and understanding of the world and setting. But maybe you're right. That's one, maybe two. Probably less than your Champ has done.
Now, maybe Savin will speak up and admit that you're correct and Kasyrra just ambushed and grabbed Farrah from behind and covered her mouth and screamed, "I'm going to kill you if you struggle!" (which seems out of character for her, but maybe you know better) and Farrah was in such fear of her life she couldn't move, and all because... Kasyrra wanted to take her little soul crystal... but I've seen plenty of scenes where she hardly cares about the things, at least the ones that come from most people. There is almost never such a threat in any fight scene other than with beasts (and even rarely then) or some scripted bad end (and even those usually end in sex slavery).
Really? The 'Progenitor of Wandering Rape Given Living Form'?! Because the concept of wandering encounters in the TiTs and CoC universe where the victor has claim over the defeated and it's accepted, by both parties, be they PC or NPC? Clearly Kasyrra is the Progenitor of all that. Given living form...
More likely that title goes to the protagonist in all the games.
"Where I come from, when you beat someone down, there's a certain expectation... an expectation that you hold that bitch down on the ground and fuck 'em like an animal. In my world, it's fuck or be fucked, a never-ending struggle for dominance. Imps are the bottom of the barrel, the weakest of the weak... and yet they still enabled us to conquer our world. There's power in numbers, but not much... satisfaction."
Her expectations in her world are really not that different from Savarra, because that attitude is mirrored almost universally by foes that have never even met Kasyrra. And they've been in Savarra far longer than she has. Some even expect it and are insulted or hurt if you don't, like the Selkies or Shark-people of the Great Glacier.
She births imps because, One, she wants children and giving birth is about the closest she can get, even if they're soulless and pathetic imps, and Two, imps are what allowed her world to be conquered, pathetic as they are and she is making an army because it works. The fact that they're horny S.O.B.s is secondary. Surprise, the Marked Mercenaries Carmen hired are the same way. Argoth (and even Arona's later) troops are the same way with those they encounter. It's just how it is.
She isn't raising an army of rapists. She's raising an army, period. They're just soulless, unprincipled creatures that have no morality, but their actions really aren't that different from any other army or troop or enemy that defeats their opponent in this world (which should make you think, about the morality of the world, but you're the one choosing to play and exist and participate in that world, and if you haven't engaged in such behavior in your entire play experience, I would be surprised). As someone said, "Mmm, this is the nature of the world in all its glorious rush!"
While imps may be predisposed to such proclivities, it's no different than gnolls giving birth to females that will cow and dominate their males or spiders giving birth to children that will ultimately bite the heads off their mates. Despite how true it may be, we don't just go around declaring Jeffrey Dahmer's parents 'Progenitors of Cannibalistic Serial Killers and irredeemably pure evil for bringing him into the world!', even if they technically are (the progenitors part, I don't know about the evil part).
When was the last time you were having sex and you stopped and said, "Wait... what if we have a child and they turn out to be evil or a rapist, like in that game I play? I really want to have sex and my heart's desire is to have children... but... what if they become [Democrats/Republicans]!?"
"I don't want to be the Progenitor of [Democrats/Republicans]!" ?
Oh... she was planning 'nefarious activities'? I plan those for Etheryn every night I click the Sleep button. That doesn't mean rape.
I didn't forget it, but I didn't remember the exact words, so I started a new game, and I played all the way through it. Ryn says Kasyrra, 'was saving her as a special snack.' Maybe Kasyrra was just gonna eat her! Now you can call her the Embodiment of Cannibalism Given Living Form! Look out Dahmer! Even though there's no indication she eats people.
After that, all she says is Kasyrra promised to do all sorts of 'horrible things'. The issue is that it is Etheryn describing those things. As a Chaste, innocent, and inexperienced 'good girl' her idea of 'horrible' is someone else's idea of 'yes, please!'. There's no way to know what was promised, but it's entirely possible Kas only said that to scare her. Kasyrra could have said, "I'm going to take you back to Alissa and let you watch me anally sodomize your sister and use her as a footstool' and that would qualify. It doesn't mean she raped Etheryn or even threatened to so so.
In her own words:
"Hello again!" Kasyrra calls down, running a hand up her trembling shaft. "I was beginning to wonder when you'd make it up this way... you certainly left me waiting. Ah! And you even found my present. Do you like elves? I've always found they make cozy cock-sleeves but amount to little else."
It actually sounds like she was really leaving Etheryn there for the Champ to find and save. So while you can throw out all these intimations, there's no proof to your pudding. it really seems like she had no intention of just raping Etheryn. If Kas wanted to rape Etheryn, chastity cage or not (There's no doubt she couldn't make Alissa remove it if she herself couldn't), she could have. Instead she just sat on a tree branch, waiting.
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You're getting far too defensive over Kasyrra's honour that someone would call her a rapist, or her being maligned for being a primary villain at all.
She is quite literally a soulless monster who has inflicted misery and corruption across two worlds, and deserves being smited to save the world as much as any of the other reigning villains like Tollus.
But unlike Tollus the story treats her with unwarrented favouritism because people want to fuck/waifu her, that's the problem with it. She's so overpowered in comparison to other baddies the player or anyone else can't oppose her as she does what she wants and the ones who are stronger (the gods) instead of crushing her for threatening to inadvertently initiate another Wraith invasion by experimenting with portals as part of her schemes are instead handing her a happy ever after redemption.
Imps are even more the one-note monsters than demons, who have at least a veneer of individual humanity to them and are capable of some sort of positive emotion even if its twisted by their lacking souls. Those things on the other hand are just swarms of inhuman critters who exist only to gangrape and the plot treats as so twisted an existence the writers let you freely slaughter them post-battle without any hesitation or remorse.
Your false-equivalency is baffling nonsense in regards to them.
She is quite literally a soulless monster who has inflicted misery and corruption across two worlds, and deserves being smited to save the world as much as any of the other reigning villains like Tollus.
But unlike Tollus the story treats her with unwarrented favouritism because people want to fuck/waifu her, that's the problem with it. She's so overpowered in comparison to other baddies the player or anyone else can't oppose her as she does what she wants and the ones who are stronger (the gods) instead of crushing her for threatening to inadvertently initiate another Wraith invasion by experimenting with portals as part of her schemes are instead handing her a happy ever after redemption.
Ace you're losing it going off about nonsense like American politics.
Imps are even more the one-note monsters than demons, who have at least a veneer of individual humanity to them and are capable of some sort of positive emotion even if its twisted by their lacking souls. Those things on the other hand are just swarms of inhuman critters who exist only to gangrape and the plot treats as so twisted an existence the writers let you freely slaughter them post-battle without any hesitation or remorse.
Your false-equivalency is baffling nonsense in regards to them.
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What false equivalency? Just because I don't need to throw out words like 'murderer' or 'rapist' to describe something and elicit emotion. You literally are trying to place all the actions and blame of imps (who do have intelligence and capability to make their own choices and actions) and place their actions on her. Just because I didn't want to imply your children were going to be racists or rapists or libertarians shouldn't have baffled you too much to understand how silly it is to expect someone who loves having sex and giving birth to have an abortion or kill their children or not fulfill a driving biological need because those children might...I dunno... go around doing the same thing every other creature in the world does (be a random encounter and either fuck or get fucked).
You claim Kasyrra has raped untold numbers of people and brought misery to an entire world. Now two, apparently, since you're claiming she was responsible for misery in the entire world of Mareth too. Maybe she was, I didn't play CoC 1. But I'm also pretty sure you're lying about the entire world of Savarra, I don't believe she's even left the Frost Marches. Maybe in a Bad End she'll eventually take over the world. I don't care if you think she should die, I think she should die too ... when I play my Champ that wants to kill her, but not when I am playing a Champ that wants to redeem her (but I don't have to fool or lie to myself about why I feel that way). But if you say you think Tollus is bad because of all the times he cheated at Poker... I'm gonna point out that I don't recall any of that, even if I'm not disputing that Tollus is bad, or is irredeemable, or needs to die. It's the same when you try and say things that Kasyrra has done that make her unable to be redeemed, but point out things that either she hasn't really done or things that in CoC2 aren't considered crimes of immense irredeemable evil... and are actually... normal by and large (the soul thing is unique, but she really shows very little interest in collecting them, but even Farrah will tell you that it really isn't up to her, it's on the person themselves being corrupt or about or the edge, which should have told you something about Farrah if you think it was just the one encounter with Kasyrra that did it all).
You're making claims and statements you can't really back up (you might be right, but I don't see that in the actual story), and when someone points out these out, rather than accepting that maybe you're going a back too far in your accusations or admit that maybe you misinterpreted something, you seem to focus on one part of their comments that is clearly not the point. She gives birth to imps, imps are bad, because... they go around and have random encounter fights in the world... and have sex with those they defeat... like every other creature in the world. The difference between the two is that when the imps lose... people kill them. I kill them too, every time.
I don't care that you don't want her redeemed. I care when you start making false claims that she's irredeemably evil because you want to throw the word Rape around, when it clearly is not considered that in the world or setting. Or you start claiming she's raped hundreds of people (she may have, she's a Lust Demon, but more likely she's just seduced them), and that somehow they are any different than Driders or Hornets, or probably Bee Folk or Ant Folk, or dozens of other races that have existed for hundreds and thousands of years, before even acknowledging everyone else. You're acting like all the rough sex in Savarra and all the problems in it all started because she appeared one month ago. Manticores weren't kidnapping people for harems, hornets weren't laying eggs in peoples' butts. Orc tribes weren't raiding villages and sea lanes. Hirrud didn't have a harem of three cat girls he was treating poorly. Marefolk stallions weren't roaming the planes assaulting everyone they came across. Wraith-touched creatures weren't roaming around the world after having devastated it. Harpies weren't robbing people and using them to fertilize their eggs. Are none of them redeemable either? Maybe because they have souls? You like to keep using 'soulless' as some bludgeon.
No kitsune can be redeemed if they ever do something wrong because they're soulless monsters that... have literally sucked the very life force out of hundreds of people for thousands of years! I hear there's one den mother can just pops out more of the soulless vampires every 3 or 4 days! The Frost Marches are gonna be overrun with those things in a few years if we don't find the breeder banging all the foxes and murder him or her, because they're clearly spreading untold misery across the entire world! Or... well... actually a very small section of the world.
If you don't want to redeem her, I don't care. You are welcome to believe she needs to be smote, or killed, or butchered or raped and assaulted, but your reasons don't hold water or stand up to scrutiny when you have to make hyperbolic statements or claim she's the Embodiment of Rape to prove your point (when you can't back it up). Or that because you don't agree with how NPCs in a world you don't live in react, and that their actions somehow prove your point? If all the gods thought she needed to be destroyed and wouldn't listen to any other options, that would have zero impact on whether she could or couldn't be redeemed. Just whether they would help. Then you'd likely be railing about how if the Seven were really so good or powerful they'd be able to help her achieve her dreams or find a place in their world... because maybe they'd understand what it might be like to be suddenly out of place in a world as a being, creature, or even a person, that no one else in Savarra can relate to.
You claim that it's unbelievable people are willing to appease or acquiesce or try to appeal to the better nature of someone? That's how the world works, even the real world. You think in the real world people don't try to appease monsters? You've never heard of Saddam Hussein? Hitler? People are willing to give even atrocious monsters, who are undeniably worse than Tollus or Kasyrra a chance or to appease them. Yeah, they needed to be stopped, and they were... but things had to proceed to a point where not trying to burn the world down or cause vast deaths finally couldn't be avoided. The gods not wanting another world war is believable, and if trying to make Kasyrra see the error of her ways, or become fulfilled and happy can do that, more people than you think would be willing to go that route over some warmonger screaming about how she needs to die and everyone has to go to war because they're point of view says there's no other way worth even considering.
No kitsune can be redeemed if they ever do something wrong because they're soulless monsters that... have literally sucked the very life force out of hundreds of people for thousands of years! I hear there's one den mother can just pops out more of the soulless vampires every 3 or 4 days! The Frost Marches are gonna be overrun with those things in a few years if we don't find the breeder banging all the foxes and murder him or her, because they're clearly spreading untold misery across the entire world! Or... well... actually a very small section of the world.
If you don't want to redeem her, I don't care. You are welcome to believe she needs to be smote, or killed, or butchered or raped and assaulted, but your reasons don't hold water or stand up to scrutiny when you have to make hyperbolic statements or claim she's the Embodiment of Rape to prove your point (when you can't back it up). Or that because you don't agree with how NPCs in a world you don't live in react, and that their actions somehow prove your point? If all the gods thought she needed to be destroyed and wouldn't listen to any other options, that would have zero impact on whether she could or couldn't be redeemed. Just whether they would help. Then you'd likely be railing about how if the Seven were really so good or powerful they'd be able to help her achieve her dreams or find a place in their world... because maybe they'd understand what it might be like to be suddenly out of place in a world as a being, creature, or even a person, that no one else in Savarra can relate to.
You claim that it's unbelievable people are willing to appease or acquiesce or try to appeal to the better nature of someone? That's how the world works, even the real world. You think in the real world people don't try to appease monsters? You've never heard of Saddam Hussein? Hitler? People are willing to give even atrocious monsters, who are undeniably worse than Tollus or Kasyrra a chance or to appease them. Yeah, they needed to be stopped, and they were... but things had to proceed to a point where not trying to burn the world down or cause vast deaths finally couldn't be avoided. The gods not wanting another world war is believable, and if trying to make Kasyrra see the error of her ways, or become fulfilled and happy can do that, more people than you think would be willing to go that route over some warmonger screaming about how she needs to die and everyone has to go to war because they're point of view says there's no other way worth even considering.
For my Kas, hell no. And yes in a way. The problem is in the question itself, and that Redemption! just doesn't fit in the game for me.
Once Kas is soulbound to and sexually exclusive with my Champion as a permanent party member-pet-wife-sex demon, she will only be causing manageable localized hidden fun stuff.
Her silly obsession with having normal babies can be banged out of her eventually, as she loses more of her humanness in favor of demonic passionate excess. It would also make her a far more interesting character for me at least. I think she'd enjoy being the one dominated and bent to someone else's will for a change, and my champ will take very good care of her.
I also have deliciously perverse plans for her shapeshifting that I doubt anyone else would ever think of, so sadly it'll just have to remain headcanon/oc.
My problem with Redemption! is that I'm a nerd not a geek, memes and tropes delivered neat just irritate me. There's no incentive to buy into the setting's compromised religious morality, RL morality has no place at all, and ethics require a level of logic and causality that isn't present and cannot coexist with magic. Without a religious context, soul is a meaningless word, demon is nearly so, and without morality or ethics, there can't be sin to be redeemed. Also I just dislike the theme, It's just peasant morality, plenty of that in RL.
TLDR Redemption hell no. Containment yes, just keep her locked down and the problem's solved.
Once Kas is soulbound to and sexually exclusive with my Champion as a permanent party member-pet-wife-sex demon, she will only be causing manageable localized hidden fun stuff.
Her silly obsession with having normal babies can be banged out of her eventually, as she loses more of her humanness in favor of demonic passionate excess. It would also make her a far more interesting character for me at least. I think she'd enjoy being the one dominated and bent to someone else's will for a change, and my champ will take very good care of her.
I also have deliciously perverse plans for her shapeshifting that I doubt anyone else would ever think of, so sadly it'll just have to remain headcanon/oc.
My problem with Redemption! is that I'm a nerd not a geek, memes and tropes delivered neat just irritate me. There's no incentive to buy into the setting's compromised religious morality, RL morality has no place at all, and ethics require a level of logic and causality that isn't present and cannot coexist with magic. Without a religious context, soul is a meaningless word, demon is nearly so, and without morality or ethics, there can't be sin to be redeemed. Also I just dislike the theme, It's just peasant morality, plenty of that in RL.
TLDR Redemption hell no. Containment yes, just keep her locked down and the problem's solved.
Guided meditation. 12 step program utilizing spirituality, prayer, and opening her heart to a higher power?
Option 2: Fuck the Hell out of her.
There will obviously be a redemption path for Kas since she's the author's baby, but there really shouldn't be. They're prolly gonna try to make Tollus the real big bad, but none of his shit would've been possible without her.
Lol. Somehow I doubt either choice will be terribly effective. Redeeming Kassy, if it happens in a playthrough, will require a level of power and intervention far beyond mere fucking.
Unlikely. Tollus has been consistently characterised so far as a weaselly little fuck-up who's in over his head and trying to run damage control. Not harmless, obviously, but he's more like Starscream from Transformers than Megatron. And like Megatron and Starscream, both are evil but they are constantly at each other's throats.
Besides that, they've made it clear Kasyrra's enemy path will still exist and be possible to achieve, especially if you become Soulbound. And if it does, it stands to reason she'll be one of the final bosses if not the final boss.
Yet things did get bad enough for Kas to ask us for help. So like, she is either mighty incompetent to let a duck up like him rise to the touching distance of a floor. Something doesn't quite add up.
Although, this idea of killing her just doesn't sit well with me. I am more fond of the idea of enslaving her and making her my prized breeding/seeding bitch.
Turns out she's not a demon... She's been
It's actually rather sad. Tragic even. Maybe the real demons... were inside us all along.
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