The Pacing of TiTS.

[Primename]

What do you guys currently think of the pacing of the Main Plot Thread (Gathering Dad's Pods and taking back the company) ? I personally would like to get back to it sometime soon but I know not everyone is like that.

So, what do you, person that is reading this forum post. think?

 

[shadefalcon]

I've yet to actually finish the main quest of Skyrim. Still, I really loved that game
It's the same for TiTS really. I love all of the optional quests/planets/content.
I think the pacing's fine

 

[Couch]

From a game design perspective, the most effective use of Fen's time would be to push through the main story as quickly as possible, then go back and expand outward horizontally afterward. This would allow for things like testing of class and combat mechanics at all levels, as well as avoid the CoC situation where the game meandered around for a few years before actually getting to the final dungeon.

However, since TiTS is an early access game, this changes priorities a bit. New locations require immediate depth of content for them; they can't be left as skeletons and fleshed out later because the player base is actively using them. This does unfortunately come at the cost of story advancement taking longer, but it's a necessary price to pay in order to keep the players engaged. New characters generate hype much more efficiently in terms of developer effort than new locales.

I personally would like the focus to lean more towards advancing the story, but I understand the other factors that make this difficult for Fen to prioritize. I must of course also acknowledge that most of my own writing has been for a side planet.

 

[Woider]

I'm honestly pretty fine with the pacing as it is. When it comes to games with terrible main-story pacing, (Fallout 3, Skyrim... Everything Bethesda has ever made, basically.) I practically discard the main story in favour of side-content, whilst games that have the main story content interwoven within the side-content (BioWare games spring to mind, along with New Vegas and Deus Ex). Since the side-content is drip-fed to you as you unlock more planets (or have smaller chances to unlock, so you don't go straight to them after 5 days), I'd say this is in the latter category.

 

[Wsan]

It doesn't matter to me whether I talk to NPC X as Steele, Heir-to-be or Steele, CEO. Feels like an irrelevant choice - the sex isn't going to be different because you picked up a probe.

 

[Klaptrap]

The story is a massively underwhelming excuse that has practically nothing to with you personally or the world around you. It's surrounded on all sides by side-content that do not in any meaningful way acknowledge the main story. The best you could claim is that, sometimes, you would introduce yourself as "Donut Steele, on an interplanetary scavenger hunt".

The plot's not going to get better without a lot of extra work and a lot of reworking content that is already there, and I just don't see that happening. The best we can hope for is more places for waifus to show up.

 

[argenten]

Yeah, but you won't have the annoying need to go pick said probes up looming over every interaction and making everything feel like the massive distraction and, essentially, waste of time that it is in the grand scheme of things.

Unless we're just tossing our hands up and openly admitting that the main quest is just a bad excuse to "get the PC out there." At which point, why even have it at all? >_>

And that's just it, the original impact of the probe hunt is gone, and that isn't in relation to how long the game takes to code or anything, that's part of an early access game. What I mean is that the side quests and content that have developed have massively overshadowed the probe hunt in terms of impact on the story and galaxy at large, whether in potential or actualization. Great example: KaraQuest 2, this is an entirely optional side quest you don't even have to get...but if you do, you get to impact not only Kara's personal life but Shade's as well in direct context and the fate of Myrellion in general as well as Amara's place in her pirate fleet armada buddies. I don't know about you but that has way more of a hook than 'find probe, get coordinates for next probe.' for me.

Tarkus has another great example that *is* quest related, with da big bomb and the lady (and herm) pirates. You mess up, the mishmash planet goes BOOM! But the fact that you get the probe out of it is so close to an afterthought it's not funny.

I just think the hook for Steele going out into space needs overhauling to match the scope of the game because, at least for me, the only reason to care about the probes is that we are told to, and that's a big drag on the main story.

 

[Wsan]

Unless we're just tossing our hands up and openly admitting that the main quest is just a bad excuse to "get the PC out there."

I mean...

 

[raccoonjack]

Story will come with time, and side content will spring up along the way thanks to the wonderful writers. <3

I would prefer equal attention to both story and side stuff so that when I actually get to a new planet chasing those probes, the planet feels ready to welcome me, rather than hitting all of the major plot points and then months later seeing stuff appear out of nowhere in previously explored areas.

But that's irrelevant, because first and foremost I would like quality content which requires a certain interest level from the person(s) writing it. Prioritizing the story 'just to finish it' may run the risk of feeling rushed or unpolished.

Lame answer, but whatever Fen & Co is interested in working on first is fine with me.

 

[argenten]

Codecat, nuuuu....

I guess if that really is the case, though, then meh.

I have to agree, why have a fig leaf when the option to weave a tapestry is available. I mean, CoC's question starts out with "Im going to protect the portal."..."Well, crap this is a shitty trap, what do I do now?" and evolves into the Champion potentially becoming so in deed as well as name...TiTS doesn't have that evolution yet so there's the chance it could eventually grow to that but that needs to be seeded into the early parts early on to have a smooth transition.

 

[balitz Method]

The story is a massively underwhelming excuse that has practically nothing to with you personally or the world around you. It's surrounded on all sides by side-content that do not in any meaningful way acknowledge the main story. The best you could claim is that, sometimes, you would introduce yourself as "Donut Steele, on an interplanetary scavenger hunt".

The plot's not going to get better without a lot of extra work and a lot of reworking content that is already there, and I just don't see that happening. The best we can hope for is more places for waifus to show up.

That's hitting it right on the nose. Right now there's very-little-to-nothing IN the main story content-wise. It takes until the third planet to actually get a questline that works it in to any extent and even then it's still a sidebar. None of the characters from the main story have received any spotlight whatsoever, either, and my impression is that the main story doesn't particularly interest Fenoxo or Savin; it's just an excuse/carrot on a stick to ostensibly drive things in a vaguely forward direction and that's probably not going to significantly change.

If it were to then I think it would have to be through other contributing writers but I don't know what the stance would be on letting others tie their content into the main story or write Jack/Jill content or to potentially modify/expand on old probe quests to the point where they could be thought of as proper quests.

 

[balitz Method]

Yeah, but you won't have the annoying need to go pick said probes up looming over every interaction and making everything feel like the massive distraction and, essentially, waste of time that it is in the grand scheme of things.

Unless we're just tossing our hands up and openly admitting that the main quest is just a bad excuse to "get the PC out there." At which point, why even have it at all? >_>

That's the other angle. Should the official stance be that Fenoxo doesn't want any outside help on this front then I would highly, highly, highly recommend changing the initial nature of the main quest. If it were something more low key with little in the way of stakes (at least initially) then the whole space vacation vibe the game has doesn't clash with the supposedly urgent (and yet lacking in content or a sense of progression) nature of the main quest. Moreso than in, say, a Bethesda game TiTS encourages you to screw around (literally). That's the meat of the game. If you play it for the story you get almost no content.

That's not to say that the main quest as it's presented now isn't interesting, though - I think it is. There's this vague but intense pressure put on the PC not only to make it big but to become the legacy their father spent a clearly obsessive amount of time planning and envisioning. However nothing is done with it - at all - and if that's not going to be capitalized on there's no real reason to have it. As an excuse to go out and play it's convoluted and the emotions behind it are very weighty in a strange and intense sort of way that begs for expansion.

 

[JDeko]

I'd like for the new content to be more focused, like each new version to be all centered around a single thing. As it is now TiTS is starting to resemble FoE where the updates seem to have no rhyme or reason and thus don't inspire much enthusiasm in me.

I'd rather it be "Here's a new character! She has 6 scenes." rather than "6 different characters in 6 different places all have 1 new scene each!" Maybe focus on a planet a month or something? I've just not been enjoying how scattered recent updates have been.

 

[HugsAlright]

It's odd how much the Bethesda comparison works. The main story isn't nearly as engaging as all of the side character's stories and their quests. Maybe it's the main villain's current lack of character, or the fact that the game's not complete and we have to wait a while between probe-planets.

 

[argenten]

I'd like for the new content to be more focused, like each new version to be all centered around a single thing. As it is now TiTS is starting to resemble FoE where the updates seem to have no rhyme or reason and thus don't inspire much enthusiasm in me.

I'd rather it be "Here's a new character! She has 6 scenes." rather than "6 different characters in 6 different places all have 1 new scene each!" Maybe focus on a planet a month or something? I've just not been enjoying how scattered recent updates have been.

It's odd how much the Bethesda comparison works. The main story isn't nearly as engaging as all of the side character's stories and their quests. Maybe it's the main villain's current lack of character, or the fact that the game's not complete and we have to wait a while between probe-planets.

You guys pretty much said what I've been thinking. The updates for while have been small and quite frankly, not worth downloading for how little they add to the game. The updates are scattered and so is the focus both in the main story line and in the efforts being made to update the game...I think more focus and structure in updating would really make a difference.

 

[HugsAlright]

The updates for while have been small and quite frankly, not worth downloading for how little they add to the game.

But... Erra ;_;

I actually enjoy the small, frequent updates, but yeah, the main story is a little unfocused right now. I don't think it's the updates' faults though. Why go after a fortune when you can just fuck slutpuppies day and night 7 galactic rotations a week?

 

[argenten]

But... Erra ;_;

I actually enjoy the small, frequent updates, but yeah, the main story is a little unfocused right now. I don't think it's the updates' faults though. Why go after a fortune when you can just fuck slutpuppies day and night 7 galactic rotations a week?

no, nonono, Erra is lovely and sweet and a good floofy pet...but she's one good thing in a long list of small minutia being put out lately. and I do see your point but at the same time, if there's no drive to advance the story, eventually the game grows stale and the side content becomes...overworn as it were.

 

[JDeko]

Erra is fine, and since she shows up on every planet would be easy to fit in. It's more that the updates seem to be many small things scattered over every area on every planet rather than having a bunch of similar things being uploaded at once.

The reason I could never get into FoE is that the updates were so unfocused, this character got a new scene, that enemy drops a new item, you can walk 5 feet further in the main quest. It's annoying when you spend multiples more time navigating from one new thing to another than actually experiencing the new content

 

[argenten]

Right, it's progress...but it's so diluted compared to the overall game it feels much less than it should be.

 

[balitz Method]

Part of the problem is that this style of developing heavily discourages working on "boring"/invisible aspects like balance or even normal practice like tossing up outlines of further-out content. Since people are actually interacting with early alpha builds as if they were a finished product the audience expects to be entertained with each update - and that means pumping out a bunch of boner fuel and making things playable if not satisfying so that this content can be viewed.

Most everything about the probe quest still has the appearance of a placeholder - encounters are brief with no lead-in and just have the bare basics (fight scene loss scene victory scene) in place - yet "just make it functional" has become something of a design philosophy. Content exists on the next planet, this is the primary means of unlocking new places, and people are playing with the expectation that they're not just alpha-testing but getting a complete experience so something has to be there even if it's not very good.

If the alpha was more free-form/unlocked this expectation probably wouldn't exist and there'd be less pressure to rush out a "finished" version of each main quest entry that doesn't feel like it's in any way finished. Some things are supposed to be clicked into place late into development and finalizing progression (start and end points, how the world is intended to be navigated, how much freedom and how much restriction should be built in, how questlines proceed beat to beat) is one of them. As an especially important sidebar it should be clear to both developer and player that there is no and should be no expectation that saves made while the game is in progress need to be preserved, either technically (physically incompatible with new builds) or as consideration. The developers need to be freely able to go back to "old" planets and quests and add, remove, or adjust things without anyone getting upset that their character is already past this and won't get to experience the improved version or that they liked the old version better and so on.

With this audience I think people would be perfectly satisfied so long as they can see the erotic content as it's implemented and wouldn't make too much of a fuss over story stuff and major systems standing as placeholder skeletons to be filled in as the game progresses in its development. There's no particular need to "finish" planets or give them just enough paint to where players feel like they actually played through something resembling a finished quest and trying to do it that way is only going to be a detriment in the long run.

 

[JDeko]

I DO care about the story, more so than the smut. However if there was a New Game+ option, so that I could keep fro having to regrind all over again, I'd be FUCKING PSYCHED for Fenco to go back and expand on the existing events and flesh the story out more.

 

[balitz Method]

That's exactly what I mean. At this point there really shouldn't be much in the way of finalized game systems in place to lock players into having to grind or go through planets in order and the like not only because it encourages story and gameplay content to be pushed out rough but also because it creates too much of an expectation that players going through an early alpha build should be able to have a "complete gaming experience". The developers shouldn't need to have to take preserving what the players are doing now into account. They need to be able to adjust gameplay, story content, quests and so on without worrying about people pitching a fit that this invalidated time they sunk into it.

 

[argenten]

That's a good point there Method, plus TiTS is the sort of game where replaying isn't a bad thing either. We repeat stuff for fun already...so what's so wrong about having to do it from new saves?

 

[JDeko]

That's a good point there Method, plus TiTS is the sort of game where replaying isn't a bad thing either. We repeat stuff for fun already...so what's so wrong about having to do it from new saves?

Starting off weak with shitty weapons, clothes, abilities, and not having the TFs you worked so hard to get and no access to them for hours and hours of scenes you can't full enjoy now.

 

[balitz Method]

Which is why most of that shouldn't currently be in a form that somewhat resembles a final state - meaning that you have to put in effort to earn a bunch of things and grow your character. The more of that there is despite the highly unfinished nature of the game the more people are going object to any of this being "invalidated" by perfectly normal tweaking, rewriting, and other such adjustments. That ends up locking the developers into not only rushing out content but also being unnaturally locked into preserving that content more or less in the form it's in now just to avoid having to tell players that their save file isn't valid anymore or that old stuff isn't canon now.

At this point it should really be mostly unrestricted without much of a money or experience grind to it so that, if something like this does happen, no one's really losing anything. Once things are much closer to their finished state -then- the game can be presented with grinds and restrictions in place that require serious time investments.

 

[Nonesuch]

I've wasted enough fingertip skin on discussing how ineffectual TiTS' story and I cannot be arsed to do it now. Suffice to say that it is what it is what it is - an excuse to go to different planets and bang hot alien babes. The writers just have to do what they can with it, usually entailing avoiding it entirely and coming up with side-plots.

Plotting is a knotty subject even if the main story wasn't near non-existent, though. So much of the content envisages the PC really not doing much for weeks at a time - even months, if, say, they somehow wound up with a human pregnancy. That being the case, dear cousin hanging around the next probe waiting for you to show up is an unfortunate necessity, at least at this moment in time. I kind of agree with balitz about it being preferrable for there to have just been a bunch of planets with no connecting string for now. On the other hand, this way we're certainly not disappointing anyone with the awesome quality of the main strand which is totally going to tie all this junk together in a satisfying manner.

 

[Karretch]

While yes, the probe hunt has taken major focus in the main plot and planet advancement, Vic's intro was also about sending Steele Jr out into the cosmos to essentially be forged in the fires of doing-shit-for-yourself. The way I took it is that the probes are an incentive, if one really wants to keep the family inheritance, but otherwise it's a choice. It's been said that the probe hunt isn't meant to take months, or even years as some player's save files have gone, but the lack of actual content for the probe hunt leads players to spend too much time with the side content which artificially reduces the scope of importance of the probes.

Maybe if there was a way to get to the other planets beside finding the probes then there probably wouldn't be this issue of them being a thing of little importance, but I guess that doesn't solve the issue of "what/where is the main plot?"

 

[Arhon]

@balitz Method pretty much said everything i was thinking.

 

[Magic Ted]

As far as I'm aware, the original plan was to blossom out into a greater plot shortly after planet three, which turned out to by Myrmellion, via the Factions system. However, that system has been, ya know, cut off the "to-do" list completely. Whether or not something will replace it is debatable and, to be honest, doubtfully planned in either direction.

Right now the overall focus is both finishing up side planet Uveto (when Savin doesn't have to snort blood, anyway) and then the alternate path worlds for both the first and second planet as per Offbeatr plans. So, uh, main plot is probably gonna be a bit. Probably another few years.

 

[EmperorG]

As far as I'm aware, the original plan was to blossom out into a greater plot shortly after planet three, which turned out to by Myrmellion, via the Factions system. However, that system has been, ya know, cut off the "to-do" list completely. Whether or not something will replace it is debatable and, to be honest, doubtfully planned in either direction.

Right now the overall focus is both finishing up side planet Uveto (when Savin doesn't have to snort blood, anyway) and then the alternate path worlds for both the first and second planet as per Offbeatr plans. So, uh, main plot is probably gonna be a bit. Probably another few years.

I understand why Fen wanted alternate starter planets, but he really overreached on them. We're in 2017 and barely past probe planet 3, out of 10... At the rate we're going, it would take til 2025 to hit planet 10 and that's not counting the alternate starter planets. I just don't see us getting through 12 story planets and who knows how many side planets before Fen and Co. burn out. The alternate starter planets should just be made probe planet 4 and 5, lest we get derailed and not have the main plot advance for 2-3 years straight.