So, the Appearance System right now...

Stupid_Goo

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Apr 10, 2021
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Apparently my warrior is counted as a catfolk, with lupine ears, arms and legs.

Screenshot-20210416-165415-Corruption-of-Champions-II.jpg


Screenshot-20210416-165425-Corruption-of-Champions-II.jpg


I know they're in the process of reworking it, so just figured I'd ask what's going on here and if it's because of some weird shit going on with it or not - before this my PC had furred arms & legs with cat paws and ears, which made her a Manticore so I'm very confused.

Add-on: Might have sum'n to do with the fact she has a knotted, nubby catcock but who knows.
 
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Stupid_Goo

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Apr 10, 2021
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I see.

And it was the nubby dick, funny how the difference between a cat and a dog, even with wolf ears and claws and digitigrade legs, is barbs.
 
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Catdog

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When I used Leo Herbs to to give my catfolk Champ fuzzy arms, legs, tail and ears, she somehow became a taeleer. :iiam:
 

TheShepard256

Well-Known Member
I noticed this a while ago; when I gave my female catfolk Champion a cock, she became a human despite having literally all catfolk features except cock type (i.e. ears, tail and eyes; everything else is the same as humans), and the only feature she had that humans had but catfolks didn't was a human cock. Apparently, cocks are more important than ears, tails and eyes combined when determining race.
 

Shizenhakai

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Jul 9, 2016
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I once did use Fox berries to get a fox tail, fox ears and a canine/foxen dick. I was confused when I looked at my appearance tab and it decided that would make me a catfolk. I am not entirely sure how exactly the calculation works. :D
 

Malpha

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Feb 22, 2016
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It's a point system, I'm not sure why people are that confused or surprised by it.
 
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Shizenhakai

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Jul 9, 2016
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It's a point system, I'm not sure why people are that confused or surprised by it.
I assumed that, I just didn't understand how the points are given. If you have no cat-specific transformation or trait, than how could you be a cat?
There is probably something I oversaw or some other completely logical reason, but it can sometimes produce weird and hard to udnerstand results.
 

TheShepard256

Well-Known Member
It's a point system, I'm not sure why people are that confused or surprised by it.
The confusing aspect is not that it's a point system, it's that the system sometimes generates results that don't make much sense. For example: as I stated above, adding a human cock to a catfolk female apparently turns her into a human. From a racial score perspective:
  • Any features shared by both humans and catfolk (e.g. skin, hair, arms, legs, vagina) should count equally to both human score and catfolk score, meaning both scores should be equal before accounting for features exclusive to one or the other.
  • Each catfolk feature should count towards catfolk score but not human score, and vice versa for human features.
  • Assuming each part adds 1 to all appropriate racial scores, that means having a catfolk's eyes, ears and tail would give +3 to catfolk score while having a human cock would give +1 to human score; since all else is equal, that would result in catfolk score = human score + 2.
  • From this, the only way for this character to be classified as a human is if:
    • The threshold for being considered a human is exactly two points lower than for catfolk and human takes priority, or
    • That threshold is three or more points lower for humans than catfolk, or
    • The system uses some other, less obvious logic meaning I got the scores wrong.
Either way, the racial score system is generating a result that doesn't make much sense.

Applying similar logic to the above to the example in the original post:
  • Human face is a catfolk feature -> +1 to catfolk score.
  • Scaled skin is neither lupine nor catfolk, so neither score is affected.
  • Oval, reptilian eyes are neither lupine nor catfolk, but the fact that they (probably) have vertically-slit pupils would make them closer to catfolk than lupine, so I could see a +0.5 to catfolk score being justified.
  • Pointed wolf ears are a lupine feature -> +1 to lupine score, but they're close enough in basic form to catfolk ears (both being triangular and on top of the head) that I could see a +0.5 to catfolk score being justified.
  • Hair-type hair is common to both, so either both scores get either +0 or +1.
  • Furred arms tipped with canine claws are a lupine feature; if the fur and claws are counted separately, that would give +2 to lupine score, but otherwise it'd still give +1 to lupine score.
  • A scaled tail, presumably a prehensile reptilian one, is neither lupine nor catfolk, though I could see the prehensility granting +0.5 to catfolk score as their tails are also prehensile.
  • Digitigrade legs with pawed, canine-clawed feet are lupine, so the increase to lupine score could be anywhere from one (if all features are counted as one) to three (if the digitigrade, pawed, and canine-clawed features are counted separately).
  • The nubby catfolk, dick would give +1 to catfolk score, though the knot might give +0.5 to lupine score.
  • I don't know what the vagina type is, but both lupines and catfolk have human vaginas, so that's either +0 or +1 to either score.
This results in minimum scores of 3 lupine, 1 catfolk; maximum scores of 8.5 lupine, 4.5 catfolk; and 'most equal' scores of 4 lupine, 3.5 catfolk (plus or minus 1 to both). In all cases, it still seems to me like the result should be closer to lupine than catfolk, and I thus can't really believe Balak's statement above about generalities.

If we knew what the actual racial score system was, that'd clear up a lot of confusion (but would also probably generate some more questions in the vein of "why is this counted/not counted?").
 

Balaknightfang

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Post the save.

Also, you're making a lot of assumptions about the weight of various things in determining race.
Wrt to human cock thing: having a cock and that cock not fitting that race's actually reduces the score of that race, fwiw. Not everything in this is additive.
 
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TheShepard256

Well-Known Member
Post the save.

Also, you're making a lot of assumptions about the weight of various things in determining race.
Wrt to human cock thing: having a cock and that cock not fitting that race's actually reduces the score of that race, fwiw. Not everything in this is additive.
I know I was making assumptions, but since I don't have access to information on how the racial score system works I just went with what I thought would be intuitive and make sense to others. I didn't consider the possibility of a "cock type does not match race" reduction because I thought it would either be redundant to the "cock type matches race" increase, or the same reduction would apply to other body parts (e.g. having a tail would reduce human score) so the penalty for having a human cock would be more than cancelled out by the catfolk parts reducing human score.
Before & after saves attached.
 

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Shizenhakai

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Jul 9, 2016
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For additional data, I recreated another save.

I started a human male, rushed everything until I found 2 glowing shards and a fox berry.
I used the berry for fox ears and the shards for a canine cock and a fox tail.
The result is a "feline warrior" and "catfolk".

Also, sorry for the name, I couldn't think for a better tester name. =P
 

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  • CoC2 Testerlord 1.coc2
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Malpha

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Feb 22, 2016
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For additional data, I recreated another save.

I started a human male, rushed everything until I found 2 glowing shards and a fox berry.
I used the berry for fox ears and the shards for a canine cock and a fox tail.
The result is a "feline warrior" and "catfolk".

Also, sorry for the name, I couldn't think for a better tester name. =P
This has been explained before. You are an animal earred, mostly human individual with a tail. You are closest to a catfolk in nature, because you lack enough of anything that would classify you as lupine, and you obviously cannot be a kitsune because they're different on a spiritual level as well as physical on top of only having a single tail. You also don't have enough features to qualify as a fox morph.

Since the player cannot be a half race, to the world and the game, you're just a weird looking catfolk.
 
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Catdog

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This has been explained before. You are an animal earred, mostly human individual with a tail. You are closest to a catfolk in nature, because you lack enough of anything that would classify you as lupine, and you obviously cannot be a kitsune because they're different on a spiritual level as well as physical on top of only having a single tail. You also don't have enough features to qualify as a fox morph.

Since the player cannot be a half race, to the world and the game, you're just a weird looking catfolk.
Anubians
 
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Catdog

Guest
Well it should be to avoid cases like this. Catfolk have a fuzzy variant in the leothrans, so why not lupines and anubians?
For all the control that the game gives us over transformations, what we actually become is out of our hands.
 

Stupid_Goo

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Apr 10, 2021
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Because subspecies for everything would just double or triple the amount of work.

I was just curious as to what was making my PC a catfolk when she had furred limbs and dog ears - which was the nubby knotted cock causing it.
One thing making my half-lupine half-lizard/snake into a cat.
 

Wint3rRyd3r

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Feb 14, 2021
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Well it should be to avoid cases like this. Catfolk have a fuzzy variant in the leothrans, so why not lupines and anubians?
For all the control that the game gives us over transformations, what we actually become is out of our hands.

Lupines are based on wolfs, Anubians are based on jackals. Yes they have similar canine features but it seems they're not a subspecies, just another variation. Especially since lupines have full body fur and muzzle, but the one anubian we've met has ears and tail, but overall human features otherwise. All that said, if everything else says lupine but the penis is cat and you get labeled a catfolk, it's a pretty weird thing. I get the logic, but it's still weird that one thing is make it or break it for species. So I could have the arms, legs, eyes, and ears of a lupine but the second I get a cat dongus that makes everything else irrelevant and I become c a t?
 

Malpha

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Feb 22, 2016
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Because subspecies for everything would just double or triple the amount of work.

I was just curious as to what was making my PC a catfolk when she had furred limbs and dog ears - which was the nubby knotted cock causing it.
One thing making my half-lupine half-lizard/snake into a cat.
Honestly, I think that's mainly because the lupine racial score is really strict, while the catfolk score is rather broad. Like, anything less than Berwyn's level of lupine immediately puts you out of Lupine's racial score, while it doesn't take much to be considered catfolk.

Honestly, while I would like some kind of improvements to the racial score system to reflect more fringe character TF appearances, it's ultimately probably not worth the work. I'd rather settle for something like being able to set a custom name for a race or something.
 

Stupid_Goo

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Apr 10, 2021
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Honestly, I think that's mainly because the lupine racial score is really strict, while the catfolk score is rather broad.

Seems true so far.

But in Berwyn's case, coding and writing both state him as a half-lupine and etc - and when the only differences between catfolks and humans are ears, tail and dick texture, a minor pain.
Personally, hybridism is missing and should be a thing considering Kasyrra is referred to by some as "demonic dragon thing" and some such - imagine being labeled a dogsnake or catdog.
 

Balaknightfang

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Personally, hybridism is missing and should be a thing considering Kasyrra is referred to by some as "demonic dragon thing" and some such - imagine being labeled a dogsnake or catdog.
Fuck that shit. Actually. That's what Chimera is for in the races category. The most you're liable to ever actually hope for/see is "half-x" for things like half-human half-lupines and shit.

Well it should be to avoid cases like this. Catfolk have a fuzzy variant in the leothrans, so why not lupines and anubians?
For all the control that the game gives us over transformations, what we actually become is out of our hands.
If an Anubian tf is ever made, the race will be tracked for such intents and purposes. Until then, it will not be.