Perk Spreadsheet/Balence Discussion

[Zavos]

I finally managed to get the doc with the planned perks for the next few levels, so i decided to make a spreadsheet with them.

Le Google Sheet

(Level 9-12 perks are based off Savin's plans, and are still subject to change.)

So with that out in the open, what does everyone think of classes and balance thereof?

Edit: I'm hoping to focus on the current balence, while keeping future in mind. If you just want to complain about the 9-12 perks, plz do so on Savin's gdoc.

 

[Klaptrap]

I mainly do merc so I'll focus on that.

Heavily Armored is kind of weak for it's purposes. Armor is only important after you lose your shield, i.e. half your effective life, and makes it so that armor loss is only 25%. Is that even noticeable? Who even does sunder?
Giant Slayer feels like a joke. Is it a joke? I'm glad I get to be marginally better to all of 2 enemies in the game, but I was hoping for better.
Single Minded is useless if you already put some points into willpower. It's doubly useless since most enemies that switch between lust and health damage tend to focus on one over the other if it's more effective.

I don't have much of an opinion about the other skills. They're either good or at least not bad enough to complain.

 

[Lancer]

The level 9 optional perks for Techs are underwhelming. Drones are already in a bad place, the Int boost is the use of a perk to bring them up to where they should be already, and the Paralyzing shock has never been something I've used, a small damage output won't change that. The base perk is good though, seeing my 160 points of shield disappear like smoke, and then my 90 points of health lasting longer gets annoying. I mean, seriously, Dr. Lash destroyed my shield in two turns, while my health lasted at least 8 before I had to heal.

The situation is reversed with level 10, the optional perks are good while the base perk is underwhelming. The enemies that miss the most are the ones that shield regen isn't needed for.

Level 11 breaks the pattern, and has a nearly useless perk, instead of an underwhelming one. Shield bubble needs to have some sort of use outside of quests if anyone is ever going to pick it. It should probably just be scrapped, or redone entirely, as I can't think of any way feasible to make that work outside of quests.


EDIT: Also it appears that all of the planned perks have been blacked out, for some reason. Only commenting is allowed, so I'm not sure what happened.

 

[Zavos]

Also it appears that all of the planned perks have been blacked out, for some reason. Only commenting is allowed, so I'm not sure what happened.

I wanted this thread to debate the balance between the classes and the classes themselves considering both the current and future perks. I don't want this thread to be dominated by salt on Savin's plans. Thats what the comment feature on gdocs is for.

Its been unblacked, but i would prefer it if people posted something beyond hate on perk plans.
PLEASE DIRECT YOUR SALT HERE

 

[Xeivous]

I can't help but to feel like some of the perks feel like random, space-filling, additions one would find in most any rpg with more room for leveling and points to spend on one's character than the devs had ideas or ability to create new gameplay to come from spending character points, despite TiTs having nowhere near the room to spare for such perks. Like seriously, we're going to have like 20ish levels from what I remember being said at some point, might as well make all the passives and perk choices dedicated towards making our Steeles into badass fucking space-adventurers. Nobody wants to look at a leveling screen and wonder about the point of them having leveled up if they get a passive they don't care about and/or have one or both of the choices they have for their character perk be something they don't actually care about. Though it's mostly the passives that are suffering from this issue, the active choices one can make in the planned options are mostly decent.

 

[Klaptrap]

That's what happens when your overarching plan is "Well we haven't done one of these yet".

 

[Endwar]

Aaaanyway, regarding of the post's intention, which is discussing the perks I must say that there are definitely some good ones and some that seem either unnecessary or sadly not up to snuff in the long run.

In most RPGs I am either a Tank person (loving the thrill of mowing down my enemies while wearing heavy armor and turning them to paste as the gung-ho mercenary) or Full Frontal Assault (As the Tech Specialist raining down punishment from my drones and artillery).

For the Tech Specialist, I absolutely adore and plead the idea of having a sentry since any tech aligned player knows that Sentry Turrets are a must have companion on the battlefield, so I truly hope that the Sentry Defense perk (and the subsequent level up that follows afterwards) will be added sooner rather than later. Overall I am pretty satisfied with the planned perks with some exceptions of course; Linked Emitters perk having a 5% increase chance on critical for all energy weapons actually seems pretty fair, but otherwise, cant imagine really debating critically as being important in comparison to the other choice in my opinion, Shield Bubble is a little on the vague side as it mentions "allies" does this includes whatever Drone you are using? or is restricted to NPCs that happens to be engaged in the same combat as the player? Because this will possibly cause some confusion as due to how it could be misinterpreted from one or the other.

Now for the Mercenary! This class route pretty much I have no complaints, although to be fair I am a melee oriented player when using the Mercenary route, so I do not have proper critique for the ranged aspects of Mercenary. However I do have slight complaint against the Giant Slayer perk, as it is in my opinion somewhat limited and quite frankly too straightforward to simply have a higher chance of damage simply by being too tall. Although to be fair I can understand that the player will be facing larger sized NPCs, I still do not think that size should warrant a perk as it would be kind of ironic seeing that you have a perk called Giant Slayer, meaning that you can do more damage to a larger opponent, but not able to inflict that same damage to a smaller one if we go by description.

Anyway, thats all I have for my critiques, I hope this was informative and helpful in some way, and I did not step on anyone's toes. Oh and I don't have anything to say as a Smuggler sadly since it doesnt suit my play style of overwhelming barrage of firepower, or a lean mean melee machine.

 

[Zavos]

Shield Bubble is a little on the vague side as it mentions "allies" does this includes whatever Drone you are using? or is restricted to NPCs that happens to be engaged in the same combat as the player? Because this will possibly cause some confusion as due to how it could be misinterpreted from one or the other.

It might/might not affect drone, depending on what path they take. But, hypothetically, if it did, it would still be one of the most useless perks on the list due to the fact that shield techs never use equippable drones due to how shitty they are. Drone damage is linked to the attack drone perk. If you don't have it, drones are not worth any consideration whatsoever, no matter how brief.

Edit: Exception to Bimbowulfe. Which, fun fact, is the only drone to derive no benefit from attack drone.

 

[Arhon]

On Sentry Defense(Tech Specialist Level 11 Perk) does it last until the end of the combat round or until the end of the whole combat encounter?

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

I'm a Tech Spec for life. Dunno why but it is a fact. I feel like I don't have a lot of room to bitch and moan about Techies because mine has always worked for me. I'm a shield supported, drone powered Lust monster, with a hold out pistol(read big ass energy weapon). I don't feel like I'm missing out on Merc or Smuggler. I'm happy with my Techie. After all that I feel that I must say there's a gap between both the OTHER techies we see in game and the archetypal techies. Drones, they're weak. A techie as I see it is at BEST equal to their drones when it comes to combat, more commonly they should be much less capable. In game there are at least two that I can recall, I feel like there are more, NPC techies that are clearly described as have a "swarm of drones" about the. IF all of the new proposed abilities get put into play a techie could conceivably have FIVE drones, that's the three crappy ass ones you start off with, the sentry in the new abilities and Nova as a dancing lust machine. I'm being VERY loose with the terms. FIVE! that's not a swarm, that's a party or group. The Techie in the Tarkus missions has at least four ACTIVE fully functional drones as I recall, and one of them is the doggy (which if we use drops our potential to 2-3). I see the Techie as something like the necromancer from Diablo 2, "Here's my army! >.> while you're dealing with that I'm gonna pew pew you from over here . . . AAAAHHHHH RUNAWAYITSGETTINGCLOSE . . . pew pew heheh wall of skeletons . . . pew pew, etc."

 

[Endwar]

"Here's my army! >.> while you're dealing with that I'm gonna pew pew you from over here . . . AAAAHHHHH RUNAWAYITSGETTINGCLOSE . . . pew pew heheh wall of skeletons . . . pew pew, etc."

I second that sentiment!

Never played Diablo 2 sadly, but the idea of a massed pew pew Tau Drone barrage or a lust combo oriented Techie is all kinds aces in my book. Oh btw, do you guys think that the lust assists (Nova and the Bimbo Siegwulf) should get some buff in lust damage? I mean its awesome that in the other planets you can practically stack a lust attack into a one-hit KO. Uveto on the other hand their damage only amounts to 1; I mean i can still understand perhaps 5 or 10 if thats stretching abit considering its an ice planet and escalation of difficulty, but would it make sense to buff their lust damage down the line at some point in a future build update?

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

I second that sentiment!

Never played Diablo 2 sadly, but the idea of a massed pew pew Tau Drone barrage or a lust combo oriented Techie is all kinds aces in my book. Oh btw, do you guys think that the lust assists (Nova and the Bimbo Siegwulf) should get some buff in lust damage? I mean its awesome that in the other planets you can practically stack a lust attack into a one-hit KO. Uveto on the other hand their damage only amounts to 1; I mean i can still understand perhaps 5 or 10 if thats stretching abit considering its an ice planet and escalation of difficulty, but would it make sense to buff their lust damage down the line at some point in a future build update?

Yup full on ACES! and yeah I think that to a point things that we are stuck with arguably for the majority of the game should scale with the character. Nova being the prime example in my book.

 

[EmperorG]

I agree with the general sentiment that shield bubble is pretty worthless (I mean what few quests do have companions aren't all that hard to chug through), I would posit that a much better perk instead would be giving the Tech's a damn energy recharge option at long last. Energy is a 1000-times more important to a tech than his companions shields or lack there of. A tech with no energy is very weak, and from what I understand both smugglers and mercs already have a way to recharge there energy.

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

I agree with the general sentiment that shield bubble is pretty worthless (I mean what few quests do have companions aren't all that hard to chug through), I would posit that a much better perk instead would be giving the Tech's a damn energy recharge option at long last. Energy is a 1000-times more important to a tech than his companions shields or lack there of. A tech with no energy is very weak, and from what I understand both smugglers and mercs already have a way to recharge there energy.

Apparently this IS in the works for the 9-12 abilities.

 

[Zavos]

Apparently this IS in the works for the 9-12 abilities.

Savin's doc mentions adding some energy restore to shield restore.

 

[Darkwarpalg6]

Apparently this IS in the works for the 9-12 abilities.

I dunno, Fenoxo's comments in the page seemed to suggest he wanted techies to be distinct by not having a energy regen.

I'm not opposed to adjusting this to once per combat (and boost its effectiveness if necessary) but leave the techies distinct from the other classes in that manner.

 

[Emerald]

Either they get energy regen in some way or Techs are gonna forever be known to suck in that regard. Mercs have energy regen, Smugglers have energy regen, why can't TECHS have it?
To be unique? Yet two of the three classes already have abilities that do the same thing. :/ Well, at the very least LOWER the energy costs of the tech abilities if you're not gonna give them an ability to even replenish that! The costs are too damn high to where the special abilities become useless very quickly after a few turns unless you have something to bring back that energy up, and even then, it all gets sapped again because their costs are really high.

The drones doing shit all damage are one thing, but the issue with their lack of regaining energy outside hold items is another big ass drawback.

 

[Xeivous]

If Fen wants techies to be distinct, why not make drones their schtick and makes them really good with them instead of the single weakest class in the game? Techies not getting energy regen is like taking three runners, having them run a marathon, refusing to give one of them water at the rest stations, then wondering why that racer doesn't finish the race.

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

Savin's doc mentions adding some energy restore to shield restore.

Pretty sure you missed some things here. I'll have to go back and check again myself when I'm better rested.

 

[Zavos]

Pretty sure you missed some things here. I'll have to go back and check again myself when I'm better rested.

Spoiler

Modify Power Surge/Deflector Regeneration (L4) to Restore Energy Tech Specialists have no means to restore Energy in combat, unlike the other two classes. Which is lame. We could switch these powers to 1/encounter, and have them restore enough Energy to get off a couple Volley/Overcharges. Would make the ability more or less equivalent to Second Wind. Which is good.

In all honesty, i don't really think this would help as much as Savin thinks it would. For bosses that deal damage you can shield against (every endgame boss except Lash, PexigaQuest), keeping Deflector Regeneration up takes priority over anything else. Making shields once per combat pretty much turns tech bossfights into delayed sudden death. Which might be fenlord's intention. I would MUCH rather have no energy regeneration and reusable deflector regen (with a NRG cost) than the other way around.

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

In all honesty, i don't really think this would help as much as Savin thinks it would. For bosses that deal damage you can shield against (every endgame boss except Lash, PexigaQuest), keeping Deflector Regeneration up takes priority over anything else. Making shields once per combat pretty much turns tech bossfights into delayed sudden death. Which might be fenlord's intention. I would MUCH rather have no energy regeneration and reusable deflector regen (with a NRG cost) than the other way around.

Yes, that's the spot. I believe we are reading two different things out of the same words. I look at that and I see an abbreviated note that says basically the following:

Spoiler: Interpretation of notes on future content.

"<We should> Modify Power Surge/Deflector Regeneration (L4) to <become> Restore Energy<,> Tech Specialists have no . . . "

I could see it being interpreted another way, but I see confirmation in the latter part of the statement indicating that what I've written here is the intended interpretation. That having been said, we are not the devs and we don't get to decide what IS balanced. On the other side of things I would in fact agree that making shield skill(s) reusable would, all by itself, make Tech a viable class. I personally would rather see the Tech walk the road of drone queen though. I mean by that, lots of drones who can taunt, dps, maybe heal one another. Think MMO party made of drones with Tech choreographing. In the end though either would work.

 

[Zavos]

I personally would rather see the Tech walk the road of drone queen though. I mean by that, lots of drones who can taunt, dps, maybe heal one another. Think MMO party made of drones with Tech choreographing. In the end though either would work.

I don't think that going to happen. We have no defensive drones, and i don't like the thought of a drone that needs to be deployed with energy in a fight to be used. Drones are a nice gimmick, but Fenlords arn't showing them the love they need to be viable next to shield tech. Although the hurt shield techs get from this plan does even things up slightly.

 

[Ormael]

Not Fenlords just Fen not see worth to make dron techs more vialable. And for def drones...if curent ones drones are....ekhm quite not worthy the hasstle and locking out acc slot then why add new types before some changes to drone techs build made by devs?

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

I don't think that going to happen. We have no defensive drones, and i don't like the thought of a drone that needs to be deployed with energy in a fight to be used. Drones are a nice gimmick, but Fenlords arn't showing them the love they need to be viable next to shield tech. Although the hurt shield techs get from this plan does even things up slightly.

Which is why I've kind of settled in my mind for the "shield boost" techie.

Not Fenlords just Fen not see worth to make dron techs more vialable. And for def drones...if curent ones drones are....ekhm quite not worthy the hasstle and locking out acc slot then why add new types before some changes to drone techs build made by devs?

It's irrelevant if it's just Fen or all of the Devs. It's Fen's game. They will back him up on any decision that gets to us, relatively speaking. Just the way it is. As far as drones being viable goes. It's really simple they need to be remove from the accessory slot and given their own mechanics. But that's not my job to fix. I can't code it and I won't write it, so I can't see how me bitching about it will change a thing.

 

[Ormael]

It's still mostly only Fen that thinks that drones are in good spot. Saving or others people working on game afaik not thinks that drones are in best spot but Fen got final word in all matters so it's actualy ONLY Fen that studborn stand in his statment that drones and techs using them are perfectly fine.

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

It's still mostly only Fen that thinks that drones are in good spot. Saving or others people working on game afaik not thinks that drones are in best spot but Fen got final word in all matters so it's actualy ONLY Fen that studborn stand in his statment that drones and techs using them are perfectly fine.

Again, it doesn't matter. The Dev team is a TEAM. We as writers, artists, and forum members are an addendum to that not regulation or oversight of it. Could we do the game without them? Nope, not TiTS. Could they do it without us? Yup. In the end without even that IT'S FEN'S GAME. So if he decided that for the story to be what he wants it to, the Red Myr take over the UGC. Guess that's what happens. That's the POINT of creative control.

 

[Ormael]

Yes they can live without us but without players to play game they...will not exist so not like they totaly suspended in void without carring for world around them. But silent majority will not come complain to Fen or other dev member about things so we can ony silently awaits miracle at that point.

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

Meh, at this point either the point is made or there's argument for the sake of argument. Not that I mind a good uncontentious argument from time to time, just that this hardly merits the effort.

 

[ScarletteKnight]

I'm a Tech Spec, and I want to share my input. I am a melee specialist, using the Vamp Sword, Emmy's variant. I'd like to use the attack drone, but it was basically useless compared to the massive defense boost from the other drone, which more than doubled my previous shielding. I also don't get much use of overcharge/volley, because I'm using Tanis' bow, so it's kinda my fault. Would love to see an electric bow by the way. Gravidic Disruptor got me through the biggest fights I've come across, as did Deflector Regeneration. However, the noted lack of Energy Regen is a huge problem with the high cost moves, and hinders the survival ability of the Techie, especially if they chose the attack drone. I agree that you shouldn't need the new optional perk to make drones viable, but instead they should be buffed, and if you choose to make them stronger you can, offense over defense. I don't use Paralytic Shock as much any more, but I love electricity, so adding a bit of damage to it might make it more appealing. The small critical increase option doesn't really stack up against the extra damage/kinetic defense in my opinion, maybe make it 10℅ or something. Sentry Defense seems to outweigh Shield Bubble entirely, but maybe I'm missing something. The twelfth level fits perfectly. Might choose the Second Shot over Melee Specialist, because my chance to hit isn't suffering as of yet, and it'd make Volley way more useful.

Didn't check out the other classes, but my friends play them, and they're doing great. Like, really great. They're also melee specialists.

By the way, how much XP will these extra levels need? I accidentally worked up over 2 million just screwing around.

Also, when are the psionics coming into play? I won't use them, but one of my friends is really looking forward to it. I can't wait for the ship flight and combat, personally.

I've made this way too long....

 

[Noob Salad]

@OnyxDrakkenblade: You need to chill out, dude. Fen, Gedan, and Savin have Patreon as their primary income. I'm sure they care about their players' opinions.