[Killed] Frostwyrm Kip Expansion

[MidoriMouse]

Hello. First time posting here. Here's the link to the G-doc, and then I'll get to explaining why you should/shouldn't cringe at this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f5RtepmHTc0mmtDrOcku2vIhCOOysBMPb5gqNgmlxhw

This picks up if Steele has chosen to disable incest with the kips for a prolonged period. Contrary to what Frosty initially tells you, this does create tension within your wyrmling family and your eldest daughter psionically assaults you over it. Assuming that Steele does not just give in to her daughter, a slight disagreement in what constitutes proper disciplinary action between you and Frosty opens up the option to take your eldest kip (who I will call Eki for short) as a crew member.

As this is predicated on Steele not being interested in incest, there are no direct sex scenes between Steele and Eki (not to say there never will be, just that they aren't planned). Instead, it's a bunch psionic molestation that randomly intrudes as Eki tries to win her Qal over. The ultimate goal is not to get in with your daughter (I mean, if you want to pursue Bad Ends, they will be there), but to find someone other than you for her to direct her affections toward.

Also, eventually I want to give Steele motivation to burn the galaxy down because someone messed with one of Steele's kids, because I want to have the opportunity for Steele to be something other than a neglectful (or lustful) parent.

For now, this content focuses on getting Eki onto the ship and giving you some base content once she's there.

I've read up on what FW content I could find and am aware that the eldest had to be toned down because of certain TOS concerns. Looking at comparisons between B's original and edited version, I'm fairly confident that I have addressed that issue in my design guide.

Please savage my work. My inner editor has been on vacation and so I have indulged many of my worst habits. I fully expect a critical beating. This is very much a WIP, I'm probably about 20-25% complete, but it wouldn't make sense for me to write everything and then get told that this is all a terrible idea and I should feel bad for trying. I've had fun writing what I have.

If, instead, you like where this is going and the writing works, I'm all up for more ideas.

 

[QuietCoyote]

no
i don't disagree that tension building wouldn't be a thing, but the premise needs to be handled by B
plus, in Frostwyrm lore, it wouldn't make any sense for the eldest to do that
it's already established that the Kips live with their Qim and Qal until they die, and they are the ones who provide for every sexual and paternal need
i don't disagree on the tension, but i disapprove of the "find her someone else" simply because it doesn't make sense

 

[Noob Salad]

yes

But unfortunately Fen said no more parent/child incest of any kind.

 

[Atoma]

Does B know you are writing this?

 

[MidoriMouse]

Does B know you are writing this?

Depends on if B checked the forum before you.

A rando on the Internet coming up and saying "Hi, I'd like to expand on that thing you did, but I have absolutely no work to show you to explain why you should have any confidence in my vision" probably wouldn't get very far. Also, I think B's content was a commission. So in the "asking for permission" versus "asking for forgiveness" question, not even knowing who I'm supposed to really ask permission from tells me to seek forgiveness instead. If that's a breach of protocol, please forgive me.

 

[Evil]

Orrrrrrrr....

"Hey B, I really liked your work for the Frostwyrm expansion. I hope you don't mind, but I was hoping I could write up some content to help expand on that. Here are some of my ideas, (Idea X, Idea Y, Idea Z with a brief expansion on each idea). Of course, if you don't agree with those, I completely understand and respect your choice. But again, let me just say that I liked your work and I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours.

Sincerely"

Manners costs nothing and take up very little time.

 

[QuietCoyote]

Orrrrrrrr....

"Hey B, I really liked your work for the Frostwyrm expansion. I hope you don't mind, but I was hoping I could write up some content to help expand on that. Here are some of my ideas, (Idea X, Idea Y, Idea Z with a brief expansion on each idea). Of course, if you don't agree with those, I completely understand and respect your choice. But again, let me just say that I liked your work and I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours.

Sincerely"

Manners costs nothing and take up very little time.

not to mention it would've allowed him to clear the air on how the Kips would act in these situations

 

[MidoriMouse]

plus, in Frostwyrm lore, it wouldn't make any sense for the eldest to do that
it's already established that the Kips live with their Qim and Qal until they die, and they are the ones who provide for every sexual and paternal need
i don't disagree on the tension, but i disapprove of the "find her someone else" simply because it doesn't make sense

The loophole is that they aren't Frostwyrms. They're frostwyrm hybrids. And it's been established that frostwyrm hybrids haven't existed, as Steele is the first non-frostwyrm to have been chosen as a Qal. I address this directly in the Next scene after "Comfort."

 

[Darkpheonix]

Thy're still his creation, so asking him should've been the first thing you should've done

 

[Troller]

yes

But unfortunately Fen said no more incest of any kind.

Does this "no incest" affect the development of alredy existing characters (like Shade and Astra), or this no for Steel kids only?

 

[QuietCoyote]

Does this "no incest" affect the development of alredy existing characters (like Shade and Astra), or this no for Steel kids only?

it's for kids of Steele/other NPC x same NPC's offspring


furthermore, this xpac is very uncomfortable, off track, tonally off, and is overall something that should've been run by the original authors

 

[Troller]

it's for kids of Steele/other NPC x same NPC's offspring

furthermore, this xpac is very uncomfortable, off track, tonally off, and is overall something that should've been run by the original authors

Ah, ty for the answer, would be a shame if Shade route have suffered.

With that iam agreed, Frostwyrm and kips in current state is a B vision and hard work. And any addtions and changes have to be disscussed first with him.

 

[B]

I've left a number of comments on the document, but, as tidy and well-presented the document is, I'm going to say that I'd rather this expansion not make it into the game.

Like Quiet Coyote said, the tone of the document is the most important aspect of why this expansion pack is so difficult to digest. Frosty was all about having a dragon for a wife! You had kids! Your dragon family loved you! You taught each other everything you knew!
But this expansion starts on a low note and it only gets worse and worse. It's depressing; it depicts your eldest kip as manipulative and abusive; and, in the seventeen pages I read, what little sex there was (and there was, like, half a page, which is not a good thing considering you are writing for a porn game) was awkward and uncomfortable, going straight from tears and crying on each other's shoulders to groping, kissing, and Handy J's. Happy sex and angry sex are both attractive niches; sad sex is just... sad.

Your writing is very descriptive, but you write as if you don't know who your audience is. Frosty and the kips have been established and solidified as content - what you should do is build upon them and get to the content you want to write immediately, but what you're doing is taking what's been established and trying to transform it entirely. Like, at no point in my content do I depict the eldest kip as emotionally destructive as you have her.

Like I also said in the doc: what you should do from now on is, if you want to write more content, write just a handful of pages to let us know what sort of feel and tone your work is going to have. You wrote 38 pages of tonally-difficult content to digest, and I couldn't make it halfway before telling you to stop. If you had given me just the five pages, I could have given you some ideas and some direction, but now you're too deep into it to make any significant changes without scraping the entire thing.

I appreciate that you enjoy my content enough to try and add onto it, but... this isn't how it should be done, and I'm sorry you had to hear that and that I had to say it.

 

[MidoriMouse]

B has gone through and commented up the first, most depressing part something fierce. With that, I will suspend this submission.

Thank you, everyone, for your input.

 

[Troller]

B has gone through and commented up the first, most depressing part something fierce. With that, I will suspend this submission.

Thank you, everyone, for your input.

Mate, i hope you wont abandon writing for TiTS, after all everyone have to start somewhere, and your writing is not bad.

 

[MidoriMouse]

You wrote 38 pages of tonally-difficult content to digest, and I couldn't make it halfway before telling you to stop.

I understand entirely. I will say that you literally stopped at the bottom, so you might get some enjoyment out of reading the rest of the main path (which includes the make-up sex with Frosty). With other's feedback and what else you wrote, you probably would not like the psionic scenes, though, as they are pretty abusive.

I did want Eki to be dangerous; this was a path for those who had chosen to avoid incest, so succumbing to that was always going to lead to bad things, with plenty of hints that it would be bad and that the relationship was not healthy.

I understand that many of you do not want that in your sex game. Very well. If I ever submit again, I most definitely will not make that mistake.

I appreciate you commenting on the quality of the writing.

Edit: And I meant what I said: Do not feel bad for telling me "no" after I wrote 38 pages. I enjoyed every moment writing this. I'm actually a little ticked at myself for not waiting for after I finished the Zil scene--even though you didn't read it and I know you probably wouldn't like it--as a large chunk of motivation for finishing it is gone.

So, I can't actually say that if I do this again, it won't be with another 30-40 pages of content as the sample.

 

[B]

B has gone through and commented up the first, most depressing part something fierce. With that, I will suspend this submission.

You're saying this like I didn't give this content its fair shake.

Making content as bleak and depressing as what you have as a punishment for the player not wanting to have sex with their children is also... morally flawed.

 

[MidoriMouse]

Mate, i hope you wont abandon writing for TiTS, after all everyone have to start somewhere, and your writing is not bad.

Thank you. If I ever find the inspiration, I won't hesitate to try again.

You're saying this like I didn't give this content its fair shake.

No, no, no. Going through the first half of a 30+ document and finding it off-putting is definitely enough to say "no," no matter how much the next part improves. It means the writer needs an editor to get to the part the reader does enjoy.

I just hate to have you finally get to the bottom only to quit without a payoff. It's an encouragement to keep reading from that point for your own enjoyment, not to a plea to read the rest in the hopes it will change your mind. (I've pointed out already that the psionic sex scenes would probably just put the nail in that coffin.)

 

[Aullama]

For any future content you want to write, keep in mind;

This is first and foremost a porn game. Something people play to get off to. So keep the bleak and horrifying bits to a minimum. Variety in the emotional response from different content is great, but there is a line. This aint Berserk.

 

[Evil]

@MidoriMouse, passive aggressive much?

The thing is, you took someone else's work and missed the point of it completely. You went for something much darker in tone than is present elsewhere in the game. Like, I have read and I have written some pretty dark material and for a game like TiTS which is by its own definition, pretty lighthearted, it doesn't work here.

Also, you're somewhat misinformed by the idea that the fetish involved is unwanted by the community. There's actually a list of material that will never show up in the game, largely due to how far out there they are. But a part of it is also due to how Patreon had introduced new rules, some of those fetishes coming in as banned under those rules. Its about protecting the community. It is most certainly not about attack you or any other new writer.

The last point I'm going to make is that you tried to make your stamp in the community using the work done by someone else. Step out, make your own mark, make your own work stand out. What I'm saying is, make your own content for the game.

There is no need to act like the victim here. You tried something, it didn't work. Learn from it and become a better writer for it.

 

[MidoriMouse]

@MidoriMouse, passive aggressive much?

I'm not being passive aggressive at all.

 

[Noob Salad]

He wasn't being passive aggressive, and I think this thread has served its purpose now. B already stepped in and out and Midori already scrapped the project.

 

[Alabaster Chimes]

I'm not being passive aggressive at all.

Thats the part you focused on?

 

[MidoriMouse]

Thats the part you focused on?

Yes. I'm not here to argue. I am here to take your criticism and listen. For that, it's important that you understand I am not fighting you. If I have given any of you that impression, I am sorry.

All right, there may be an unstated motive in me wanting comments past the hammer line. It would be silly of me to be angry at B's reaction to that line, because it was designed to bring you to that low point and it did that perfectly. In another context, that would be a smashing success. Here, it's a disaster along with the entire build up to it.

My issue, going with the "I am here to take your criticism," is that is the portion I'm exclusively getting critiqued on, and I think there is content past that you would enjoy more. It would help me in the future to know if I am correct on this.

If you would indulge me, I went and tore every sad note and questionable scene out that document and made a new one clocking in at about 4,500 words. It includes an unbranched make-up sex scene with Frosty, Eki getting her first set of clothing, and Eki ascending the space elevator and talking about her name. This is the type of content I think you're asking for. Set aside the characters. Just tell me if I'm on target here and/or how to improve or if I'm hopeless.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xQy3Nsz-LlVGcZtWKhT9yRbppoc4BIEu-XIeJoBmUA0

 

[Kodoku]

Dude, I'm not sure you understand What everyone is saying. The problem here is the context in which you are writing about a already defined culture and race. To be completely frank the sheer concept of this expansion seems illogical and out of place. You can tweak it as much as you like, edit it as much as you like, and even beautifully phrase to where it would make even Shakespeare rise from the dead and become a scaley; but that alone won't compensate for what your are attempting to do. Your writing itself is decent in my opinion, the quality in which you express what you are trying to say isn't absolutely fantastic, I would say you are about average which isn't a bad thing. How ever your ability to understand the content, pick what you are trying to convey is atrocious. I have never taken any sort of writing class, but I feel there is some sort of term to describe this that I am not aware of.

I highly suggest you lay off of the porn for awhile, abstain touching yourself, abstain from thinking of sex, and do one of the following (it has helped me):
1. Grab a piece of classic literature, and literally read it in the park.
2. Take 10 minutes a day and do nothing, still your mind, and your emotions and just sit there.
3. Take up running.

It's obvious to me that you have dwelt in the land of giant cocks for too long and your present perception of reality is becoming distorted to the point where it's starting to affect your mental state to a degree based on what is being displayed through your writing. By now means am I trying to degrade your person, but instead blatantly pointing out that you're in fact twisting your own mind with your over indulgence. What I read... was not enjoyable to read, it was not pleasant, and it certainly did not arouse me in the slightest; it seemed more like something akin to stockholm syndrome and mental manipulation bullshit being played out in those scenes. In fact I felt more worried than anything else about your safety. To plainly put it, you need to DETOX from this sort of stuff before your own fantasies consume you.

Even if you don't listen to the rest of this, you should take into consideration that you are in fact pissing or at least irritating several people here including the original author of this content.

 

[B]

He got the picture, leave the man alone.