future of berwyn content?

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Quicksilver Tongue

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Apr 2, 2021
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Well now that we've seen what HA's side of the story is, do you want to explain from your perspective why you banned him? I don't know what the mental illness he alludes to, but while it makes sense that some conditions would make a person...difficult to work with, I also very much agree that mistreating a person because of a sickness they cannot control is...questionable.
 

Rampent Pervect

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Aug 21, 2018
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Well now that we've seen what HA's side of the story is, do you want to explain from your perspective why you banned him? I don't know what the mental illness he alludes to, but while it makes sense that some conditions would make a person...difficult to work with, I also very much agree that mistreating a person because of a sickness they cannot control is...questionable.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it's none of our f'ing business.
 

Paradox01

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Feb 8, 2020
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Well now that we've seen what HA's side of the story is...
You know about 10% of half the side of the story. Don't pretend you know everything from HA's version or even that it's accurate.

Also, what Rampant Pervect said. None of our business.
 

Shizenhakai

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Jul 9, 2016
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As someone who has depression I reacted heavily upon seeing that tweet here, but after calming down a bit I have to say thatit is an incredibly biased set of news.

Thus I agree with Rampant Pervect and Paradox01 here, not really our business. In fact, I think not seeing that tweet may have been better in the first place, at least for people like me.

Additionally, I do not think any "official" staff should answer here, because this is a kind of question where you can only lose, imho.

I do know that some writers find the submission system a bit iffy (and it isn't without problems), but at least they credit them, thus giving them exposure at least. In that regard I personally view it kinda like Bethesda games, I pay for the framework, coding and story wise, and just accept that mods/submissions give much needed meat to the bones.
 

Stupid_Goo

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Apr 10, 2021
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In that regard I personally view it kinda like Bethesda games, I pay for the framework, coding and story wise, and just accept that mods/submissions give much needed meat to the bones.

Is that before or after Bethesda basically ripped and sold a modder's graphics mod as an HD version of Skyrim?

Not that I'd know anything in-depth about it, all I ever go on for any news is whatever Google throws in my face at the bottom of the main page, unless it piques my interest.
 
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Shizenhakai

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Jul 9, 2016
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Is that before or after Bethesda basically ripped and sold a modder's graphics mod as an HD version of Skyrim?

Not that I'd know anything in-depth about it, all I ever go on for any news is whatever Google throws in my face at the bottom of the main page, unless it piques my interest.
Ehm, never heard about that. That was not what I meant with my comparison. x_x
 

Balaknightfang

Resident Coke Addict
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Aug 5, 2018
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I will say, the issue with the comparison is that for us, most of the "much needed meat" still comes from the actual dev team. Keep in mind that with Tobs officially being a staff member, it's only like 10-20% of the game's content that isn't a member of the team, and most of that is B and Bubble.
 

kiby

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Aug 26, 2015
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Ehm, never heard about that. That was not what I meant with my comparison. x_x

You never heard of it because it didn't happen, and that post is the only mention of it happening. The Skyrim HD textures DLC was released for free the very following February after Skyrim was released, alongside the Creation Kit.

Would love to see any real evidence of Bethesda directly taking some random modder`s textures and selling them.
 

Quicksilver Tongue

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Apr 2, 2021
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For the record, I disagree with the belief that we don't have a right to know what the truth of this situation. "None of your business" is just the claim of someone who has something to hide, frequently because they engaged in wrongdoing which they wish to hide. It's always better to have more knowledge about every side of what's happened.
 

Quicksilver Tongue

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2021
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Your disagreement is noted but ultimately means nothing.

Sometimes none of your business is just that. None of your business. You're not entitled to your own personal drama show.

I'm not looking for drama; I'm interested only in knowledge. People's feelings are not a justification for leaving the world's people ignorant of anything that would be beneficial for them to understand.
 
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coldmonkey

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May 11, 2016
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"None of your business" is just the claim of someone who has something to hide, frequently because they engaged in wrongdoing which they wish to hide.
What a bunch of utter nonsense. Neither individuals not companies have any duty to keep its customers informed of personal or executive affairs or drama, and the fact that they don't, doesn't mean it's all automatically shameful. It's simply not any of your business, and to assume something is nefarious just because you as a random customer (if you even are, given that these forums are open to non-paying players) isn't being invited to take part in it, is entirely deluded. You and me are not involved in this.
leaving the world's people ignorant of anything that would be beneficial for them to understand.
Oh my god, the pomposity. This is a little bit of interpersonal drama surrounding a porn game, not top secret CIA documents about human rights abuses, and none of the participants have shown any interest in providing any details to the public.
 

Quicksilver Tongue

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2021
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Oh my god, the pomposity.

Judge not, lest ye be judged....

This is a little bit of interpersonal drama surrounding a porn game, not top secret CIA documents about human rights abuses.

It is the principle of the thing. Keeping secrets is ALWAYS wrongful behavior; if you give yourself permission to hide relevant facts from people who deserve to know, then it doesn't matter whether the harm so caused is great or small; even the smallest of infractions will open the door to greater and greater transgressions, and the slope will never get less slippery the lower you allow yourself to slide down it. I cannot force anyone to do the right thing, but I'm certainly going to make sure that they know it's wrong, not in my opinion, not in any sense of moral relativism, but in absolute unquestionable fact.
 

Rampent Pervect

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2018
58
72
It is the principle of the thing. Keeping secrets is ALWAYS wrongful behavior; if you give yourself permission to hide relevant facts from people who deserve to know, then it doesn't matter whether the harm so caused is great or small; even the smallest of infractions will open the door to greater and greater transgressions, and the slope will never get less slippery the lower you allow yourself to slide down it. I cannot force anyone to do the right thing, but I'm certainly going to make sure that they know it's wrong, not in my opinion, not in any sense of moral relativism, but in absolute unquestionable fact.

How do you determine who is among those that "deserve to know"? And even if anyone agreed with you on that aspect, then how would you verify the accuracy of either side's story in this instance?

As an aside, I hope you see the irony of saying that keeping secrets is wrongful behavior while posting on a forum that allows you to remain anonymous. I'm willing to bet that "Quicksilver Tongue" is not your real name.
 

Tide Hunter

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May 4, 2019
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Keeping secrets is ALWAYS wrongful behavior; if you give yourself permission to hide relevant facts from people who deserve to know, then it doesn't matter whether the harm so caused is great or small;
What are the "relevant facts," who are the people who deserve to know? If someone has an argument with their spouse, do they then need to go out into the town square and announce every detail of their fight to the town via megaphone, since the people may technically in a very indirect way be impacted by the knowledge since they're in the same community? Why do you assume that we are the people who deserve to know, when we are not directly impacted by this information?
even the smallest of infractions will open the door to greater and greater transgressions, and the slope will never get less slippery the lower you allow yourself to slide down it. I cannot force anyone to do the right thing, but I'm certainly going to make sure that they know it's wrong, not in my opinion, not in any sense of moral relativism, but in absolute unquestionable fact.
You see, that's probably why coldmonkey called you pompous. You straight up say that this is an "absolute unquestionable fact" when you're straight up just speculating. If someone picks up a penny off the ground (which technically didn't belong to them) are they now on a guaranteed path to murder? That's the problem with using a slippery slope argument (especially since it's literally called a fallacy for a reason): Sure, some ill may make it easier to justify another, but you're framing it as if someone may possibly say "you're a dumbhead" and three years down the line they will, with certainty, be punting babies off cliffs with no remorse.
 

Milf Coded

Member
Sep 29, 2017
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For the record, I disagree with the belief that we don't have a right to know what the truth of this situation. "None of your business" is just the claim of someone who has something to hide, frequently because they engaged in wrongdoing which they wish to hide. It's always better to have more knowledge about every side of what's happened.
You’re retarded lol
 
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Libelous

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Aug 2, 2016
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For the record, I disagree with the belief that we don't have a right to know what the truth of this situation. "None of your business" is just the claim of someone who has something to hide, frequently because they engaged in wrongdoing which they wish to hide. It's always better to have more knowledge about every side of what's happened.
fuck off
 

Paradox01

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Feb 8, 2020
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Keeping secrets is ALWAYS wrongful behavior;
Totally agree. Every time I got out of a secret briefing on combat patrol routes for the following week or treated a patient in my Aid Station, I immediately jumped on Facebook and shared everything, secret clearance and HIPAA be damned. It's WRONG to keep secrets.

Fucking dipshit.
 

Wint3rRyd3r

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
929
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Yeah it's not our place to know. There's no sense in stirring up drama for the sake of curiosity. Especially since this would probably be a case of "he said, she said." so we'd never know the full story.

It is the principle of the thing. Keeping secrets is ALWAYS wrongful behavior

This right here is what actually makes me mad. One of my best friends is a lesbian. She kept it a secret from her parents out of fear. When they found out, they kicked her out and cut all contact with her. She was only 19 at that time and had nothing saved up and was sheltered. Should she have come out sooner and told them the truth and suffered the consequences while in highschool, for the sake of her abusive and hateful parents? I myself am a transwoman and kept it a secret from my parents until I became a legal adult, out of fear of being sent to a conversion camp or being punished just for being different. Should I have told them and taken that chance when I couldn't protect myself? It is not always wrong to keep secrets. It's ignorant to say so.

if you give yourself permission to hide relevant facts from people who deserve to know, then it doesn't matter whether the harm so caused is great or small; even the smallest of infractions will open the door to greater and greater transgressions, and the slope will never get less slippery the lower you allow yourself to slide down it. I cannot force anyone to do the right thing, but I'm certainly going to make sure that they know it's wrong, not in my opinion, not in any sense of moral relativism, but in absolute unquestionable fact.

Get. Off. Your. High. Horse. This is the slippery slope fallacy on full display. This is not some fact. This is purely your sense of moral relativism and it looks like everyone but you can see it. We do not live in a world where we can all be open and honest, and join hands to sing together around the campfire. Secrets are an unfortunate necessity. And you're going pretty hard for a personal spat between two people that even Hugs himself was vague about. I can't speak for everyone here, but I don't personally know either Savin or Hugs. I'm staying out of their personal issues. Our curiosity does not trump someone's right to privacy anyway.
 

Undecided

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2021
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Apologies in advance for the wall of text.

For the record, I disagree with the belief that we don't have a right to know what the truth of this situation. "None of your business" is just the claim of someone who has something to hide, frequently because they engaged in wrongdoing which they wish to hide. It's always better to have more knowledge about every side of what's happened.
The notion that one is automatically guilty if they don't say anything on the matter is an assumption derived from opinion - you cannot definitively say that in all cases - and if you jump to conclusions then you're not helping the matter in any case.
And whilst it can be said to be better "to have more knowledge about every side of what's happened", that doesn't mean you're entitled to it nor will even get it.
Therefore it can be argued to be better to just substantiate your opinion with what facts are provided and move on with your life (i.e. not really warranting a response even) - even if you disagree with a certain person / stance.

I'm not looking for drama; I'm interested only in knowledge. People's feelings are not a justification for leaving the world's people ignorant of anything that would be beneficial for them to understand.
Whilst your interest in knowledge about this matter is noteworthy, it also doesn't immediately allow for / result in you being deserving of / entitled to that knowledge.
The same could be said if two of your friends had an argument which you were aware of - you don't automatically have the right to know everything about it - only if either party wishes for you to be involved (although even then if you're only getting one side of the story you're not entitled to the full picture).
In most cases the only reason why companies / individuals put out a statement is for PR - they're not always obligated to do so - even if one party has gone public. Privacy is a thing, ya know.

Judge not, lest ye be judged....
Kinda ironic ngl. Previously seemingly implying that Savin and Co. have something to hide because of their silence on the matter... but you're better than that, right?

It is the principle of the thing. Keeping secrets is ALWAYS wrongful behavior; if you give yourself permission to hide relevant facts from people who deserve to know, then it doesn't matter whether the harm so caused is great or small; even the smallest of infractions will open the door to greater and greater transgressions, and the slope will never get less slippery the lower you allow yourself to slide down it.
As others have pointed out this is probably the worst take of the lot.
I won't pretend to have knowledge of your background with regards to secrets, but assuming that it's always wrongful behavior doesn't account for the motives of said secrecy nor the results of said secrecy (both of which - the motives and results - can be good or bad - depending on your stance as well as their objective outcomes).
The fact of the matter is there was a situation, it has assumedly been handled privately (well one party went public, but I assume you get what I mean) - and whilst we don't know all the facts - it doesn't mean we're entitled to them.
I myself am in disagreement with how things went down - but I'm not pretending to know the full picture, hence why I've reserved judgement - not using the lack of information provided as ammunition for allegations.

I cannot force anyone to do the right thing, but I'm certainly going to make sure that they know it's wrong, not in my opinion, not in any sense of moral relativism, but in absolute unquestionable fact.
See, this is the problem when debating morals. "The right thing" is subjective depending on your stance (bias / opinion) - and in large part assuming the moral high ground doesn't always work out, because morality tends to operate in an idealistic realm / case - and thus is not often found in realistic cases, such as day to day life.
Ethics on the other hand, can be used to a much better effect for that (determining guilt or lack thereof), since it's not coming from a biased / subjective viewpoint.

To conclude, be careful where you are standing, the high ground can be deceiving.
 
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Paradox01

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Feb 8, 2020
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Yeah, remind me to tell you guys about this truly massive dump I took the other day, it was so painful I was like, "Good god, I don't remember eating glass!" Anyway, details to follow later, since, you know, secrets are bad and all.
 
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