Fair warning about Shade? (Spoilers ahoy!)

[VantagePoint]

 So after a bit of digging, I found out that Shade is most likely one of Victor's many bastard children. Which makes her the PC's half sister and her daughter Astra, the PC's Niece.

Problem with this is that the huge hint doesn't get dropped before you reach Shade's sex options, meaning unaware players can get blindsided with a dose of incest. This may also pose a problem for when the PC meets Astra on another planet. I mean, it doesn't really bother me, personally, but this has the potential to piss off many people because of how niche a fanbase incest draws in. If something like that is going to be in the game, it should be stonewalled behind knowing the PC is related to these characters beforehand and by pushing the "I most definitely want incest" button.

I mean, does anyone remember the huge backlash over Doctor Badger's initial scene? People were pissed off that our PCs couldn't godmode their way through being ambushed by a huge ass Badger, and that she allegedly made the PC look like a pansy when denying that they were heroes. I mean, people were writing borderline torture porn about her.

I'm just trying to prevent people from getting that riled up again, and inadvertently putting people through content they may not want to see is a fast way to start the shitfest. Ways to avoid this would include:

1) Shade knowing who her father is, asking who the PC is upon meeting them, and she telling them about their connection.

2) Making Shade's father some other unnamed rich billionaire playboy running around the galaxy impregnating everything with reproductive organs.

 This thread is also a warning for whoever is going to be writing Astra's content for the next planet.

 

[Karretch]

 So after a bit of digging, I found out that Shade is most likely one of Victor's many bastard children.

No, she is most definately your sister. Do the probe quest (which you should have since it's public and should always experiment with all options) and she activates it. The surprise should also stay there even if it disgusts people. Unless they're metagaming they shouldn't know this tidbit of information and thus the revelation is more impactful for those who don't and find it offensive. You even have the option to reveal this info to Shade to which she promptly GTFO's without a word in fear and/or disgust or you can hide it and bask in the fetish of withholding this tidbit. People come to this game and site knowing full well it's full of deviancy, they have no right having a hissy fit for something like this. Compared to Badger, this scenario at least offers the option to "tactfully" handle it (to whatever degree that is). Add to that that Shade's route is completely optional and there's even less reason to complain.

 

[VantagePoint]

No, she is most definately your sister. Do the probe quest (which you should have since it's public and should always experiment with all options) and she activates it. The surprise should also stay there even if it disgusts people. Unless they're metagaming they shouldn't know this tidbit of information and thus the revelation is more impactful for those who don't and find it offensive. You even have the option to reveal this info to Shade to which she promptly GTFO's without a word in fear and/or disgust or you can hide it and bask in the fetish of withholding this tidbit. People come to this game and site knowing full well it's full of deviancy, they have no right having a hissy fit for something like this. Compared to Badger, this scenario at least offers the option to "tactfully" handle it (to whatever degree that is). Add to that that Shade's route is completely optional and there's even less reason to complain.

Well... no. All you have to say is you aren't a hero. As in: Not play her little game. She makes it painfully obvious it's a game of her's and even asks "are you sure you want to get hit with the bimbo laser?'

The incest being there isn't the problem, it's the fact that one can be completely blindsided by it, making people feel cheated. Even the conversation you have that hints at who her daddy is doesn't happen until before you can have sex with her.

The "blindsided" part of it is why people disliked Doctor Badger's initial encounter scene.

 

[Karretch]

And I argue that the blindside is beneficial for the character development (character development in a porn game?! impossibru!)

 

[Gardeford]

Character development works well for the npc's, but not everyone likes the characters they play being developed in ways they don't want. As for shade, it's up to you how you react to finding out shes your sister. Actually talking to her about it hasn't been implemented yet afaik, but knowing savin i'm sure there will at least be an option to tell her "no we cant do this anymore". Whether there will be an option for being disgusted i don't know.

 

[VantagePoint]

And I argue that the blindside is beneficial for the character development (character development in a porn game?! impossibru!)

Well Doc Badger's scene was beneficial for establishing the PC can't fight their way out of every situation, but people didn't like that too much.

I don't think unintentional incest is required for character development.

 

[JimThermic]

But dude. It's like you're saying not everyone in the community has a massive incest boner. Plz.

Also, let's avoid talking about Doctor Badger; that's a different kettle of fish.

 

[Shido]

As I recall the only thing I sexed up on Shade was her tail. Even at that I didn't really think much on her as I'm not the biggest fan of her or the cat race in general. Also when I found this part out I had told her even on a character that hasn't done anything with her except do some talking and helping with the bounty and she still up and left without saying a word. It gives me the feeling that no matter what the outcome of the tests show, She seems to still hold you in high regard or thinks of you as a capable sexual companion. I honestly can't wait to see what the outcome brings from this development. It may change my mind on the whole cat race thing.

 

[Jacques00]

I think the core of Astra and Shade's writing will be written by the same author (Savin), so you wouldn't need to worry about consistency issues there.

However, I do agree with you about how fast the sex encounter goes with Shade that the player (and player character) can totally be blind-sighted about the incest until after the info is slowly leaked during Shade's talk scenes or the potential big reveal in the probe collection scene. This may be a lesson for the player to not let their character's groin do the thinking before feeling guilty about the consequences, but it does weigh heavily on players who are anti-incest and wanting to keep their character pure of that stuff. I don't think there's any other way out of that other than fighting Kara and siding with Shade to keep Shade on the friendly side (incest sex always being optional). Writing a warning about incest during the Kara encounter would definitely spoil a lot of the story-based content for Shade, so it's probably best to leave it untouched unless there's a better way.

(I would make the assumption that the group of more vocal players of TiTS are okay with fantasy incest, but are more easily ticked off about fantasy bimbofication (by a furry or otherwise)--priorities, I guess!)

 

[VantagePoint]

But dude. It's like you're saying not everyone in the community has a massive incest boner. Plz.

Also, let's avoid talking about Doctor Badger; that's a different kettle of fish.

I dunno how big incest is around here, but then again we do have our Cousin, who I'd imagine will be sexable sometime in the far future. Technically they are now, but it's a bad end and you pretty much rape them into submission so... yeah.

Then again, the alternatives are being killed or becoming an egg slut... neither option sounds pretty.

My point was that the Doc Badger crap pissed people off because the PC winds up pinned down with pretty much no warning, and that this is a similar situation.

As I recall the only thing I sexed up on Shade was her tail. Even at that I didn't really think much on her as I'm not the biggest fan of her or the cat race in general. Also when I found this part out I had told her even on a character that hasn't done anything with her except do some talking and helping with the bounty and she still up and left without saying a word. It gives me the feeling that no matter what the outcome of the tests show, She seems to still hold you in high regard or thinks of you as a capable sexual companion. I honestly can't wait to see what the outcome brings from this development. It may change my mind on the whole cat race thing.

Well you can't really have penetrative sex with her, unless it involves her tail or a dildo up your ass.

But then again, I'm pretty sure eating out your sister isn't considering "normal"   Then again, 16 inch dicked Badger Bimbo Hermaphrodites aren't normal either. What I'm getting at is that the fetish is taboo for many people, even if sex occurs where one cannot get pregnant (Hell the pregnancy problem isn't even the issue with incest, unless you have generations of it consecutively, older woman having children is more dangerous to the child. It's more the taboo associated with it.)

I think the core of Astra and Shade's writing will be written by the same author (Savin), so you wouldn't need to worry about consistency issues there.

However, I do agree with you about how fast the sex encounter goes with Shade that the player (and player character) can totally be blind-sighted about the incest until after the info is slowly leaked during Shade's talk scenes or the potential big reveal in the probe collection scene. This may be a lesson for the player to not let their character's groin do the thinking before feeling guilty about the consequences, but it does weigh heavily on players who are anti-incest and wanting to keep their character pure of that stuff. I don't think there's any other way out of that other than fighting Kara and siding with Shade to keep Shade on the friendly side (incest sex always being optional). Writing a warning about incest during the Kara encounter would definitely spoil a lot of the story-based content for Shade, so it's probably best to leave it untouched unless there's a better way.

(I would make the assumption that the group of more vocal players of TiTS are okay with fantasy incest, but are more easily ticked off about fantasy bimbofication (by a furry or otherwise)--priorities, I guess!)

Well that's good, hell Astra will probably not even be sexable... then again, considering the nature of this game, and the fact you can go through the story without knowing who Shade's father is... that isn't likely.

And players having sex in a sex game isn't something they should be punished for. If Shade's only connection to the story is being your sister... she isn't going to be contributing much to the story at all, tbh.

And dem priorities yo!

 

[deltadeath93]

Well Doc Badger's scene was beneficial for establishing the PC can't fight their way out of every situation, but people didn't like that too much.

I don't think unintentional incest is required for character development.

It's not no one told you you had to bang her.  All you needed to do  was flirt with her then walk away never deal with her again. It was your own  perv self that decided  hey im gonna get me some kitty milf. You know your dad banged his way thru space for  what was it like a thousand years. Odds are ya gonna bump into a relative somewhere. and your the one who decided to be a perv like your old man. It falls on you once you find out what to do. do you reveal all and tell her  or keep mouth shut? Either way you know she is leaving planet for uveto.

Stop reading so much into it. I didn't see anyone make a stink about bug sex. Its not my thing yet I ran thru a whole planet of it. Why? Simple its in the game.

This is all based on  if you didn't read  the wiki on shade. It is simply a  case of  shit happens. It would be the same if say your mom n dad got divorced when you were 5. You never saw your dad there are a lot of dead beat dads lets face it. Well unknown to your now  high school / college self you meet a girl at a party get drunk have sex start dating. Unless you know your dads full name some don't. When you meet her parents  for dinner by then you've been having sex for a while( this isn't  1950) she tells her dad your full name  or you tell your mom her full name  then you find out.

What now? Well shits already happened. and now here we are in game same scenario.  How do you deal with it? same thing happened on a law and order episode.  guy ended up puking in  interrogation room when  he was told he was banging his sister.  her mom and his dad had an affair and refused to tell kids. Maybe shade went to her ship flew into orbit put on the auto pilot and  started yaking  at the thought of you. Who knows Savin hasn't written it yet. relax

 

[Karretch]

You know your dad banged his way thru space for  what was it like a thousand years. Odds are ya gonna bump into a relative somewhere. and your the one who decided to be a perv like your old man.

Was gonna mention this then forgot to. But yeah, it's inevitable that this was going to happen and may still yet.

 

[VantagePoint]

It's not no one told you you had to bang her.  All you needed to do  was flirt with her then walk away never deal with her again. It was your own  perv self that decided  hey im gonna get me some kitty milf. You know your dad banged his way thru space for  what was it like a thousand years. Odds are ya gonna bump into a relative somewhere. and your the one who decided to be a perv like your old man. It falls on you once you find out what to do. do you reveal all and tell her  or keep mouth shut? Either way you know she is leaving planet for uveto.

Stop reading so much into it. I didn't see anyone make a stink about bug sex. Its not my thing yet I ran thru a whole planet of it. Why? Simple its in the game.

You may be lacking in reading comprehension (No offense), but not once did I say the incest bother me. The problem is that it has the potential to blow up into some huge thing because, again, you don't figure out she's your sister until after the fact. After I found out, my initial reaction was just... "meh". 

That may not be other's reaction though, they may feel the game is punishing them for no reason/ the game should've gated that content so that those who want it can have it and you aren't blindsided by it.

Your comparison to a whole planet of Ant Girls doesn't even work. You know from the beginning they're ant girls, it's not like they morphed from something else/ this fact was hidden. I would be discussing that too if a Ausur suddenly morphed into a Ant Girl and auto raped you... but that isn't the case.

But fuck people for having their PC have sex in a sex game, am i right?

 

[Shido]

I think overall I would like it better to keep things like this the way they are. It makes it to were if you banged something to later find out you are responsible for something or you are somehow related. It would make it feel like you just regretted doing so and so or you messed up when you destroyed or killed this thing. I like the feeling of not knowing about things that I don't need to know about or can't figure out without enough information.

 

[Jacques00]

Well that's good, hell Astra will probably not even be sexable... then again, considering the nature of this game, and the fact you can go through the story without knowing who Shade's father is... that isn't likely.

 Seeing as Astra sounds more like a religious type (correct me if I'm wrong), she doesn't seem to be a sexable character--or at least not out-of-the-box, as it were. The Stormguard is a warrior cult, not a sex cult from what I gather.

If Shade's only connection to the story is being your sister... she isn't going to be contributing much to the story at all, tbh.

Well, what I mean is that her story arc and background history as being Steele's half-sister is very much a part of her character building, so I'd like to clarify that that's not all she is in the game for. She is primarily encountered due to the ties with her profession and her job of catching Kara, so there's that. Her having to deal with the complications/trauma from having an incestuous relationship might also be a part of her interactive story at some point, so the incest isn't without consequence, at least on her end.

And dem priorities yo!

Well, some people are really selective about the things they'd rather get mad about and make excuses for. I'm all about prevention, but unless it's an actual game-breaking/continuity issue, it's probably not worth getting too riled up about--Though worthless as it may be, everyone should have their fair share of venting if it peeves them so.

 

[VantagePoint]

 Seeing as Astra sounds more like a religious type (correct me if I'm wrong), she doesn't seem to be a sexable character--or at least not out-of-the-box, as it were. The Stormguard is a warrior cult, not a sex cult from what I gather.

 

Well, what I mean is that her story arc and background history as being Steele's half-sister is very much a part of her character building, so I'd like to clarify that that's not all she is in the game for. She is primarily encountered due to the ties with her profession and her job of catching Kara, so there's that. Her having to deal with the complications/trauma from having an incestuous relationship might also be a part of her interactive story at some point, so the incest isn't without consequence, at least on her end.

 

Well, some people are really selective about the things they'd rather get mad about and make excuses for. I'm all about prevention, but unless it's an actual game-breaking/continuity issue, it's probably not worth getting too riled up about--Though worthless as it may be, everyone should have their fair share of venting if it peeves them so.

I guess... It still has the potential to piss people off, which is my problem with it (I personally don't care, as I've said before). While it has the potential for a great story arc, I still believe players should be given fair warning... somehow. Because character building or not, incest is still very much a niche fetish. Popping it out of the blue like that without warning can piss people off.

And I wouldn't count Astra out just yet. Her Religion is more a code of honor, rather than a set of rules telling you what you can or can't do.

 

[JimThermic]

Because character building or not, incest is still very much a niche fetish

Not round these parts, it ain't.

 

[VantagePoint]

Not round these parts, it ain't.

LOL DAT PIC!

But.. really? I didn't know incest had much of a fanbase here. I guess this thread is for those that it isn't huge with.

 

[JimThermic]

You just need to look at the people clamoring for Jack/Jill fucking or the people butthurt about never getting to screw Helspawn to realize how big the incest boner around here is. 

There was semi-legit talk about how related Celise may be to you at some point.

 

[VantagePoint]

You just need to look at the people clamoring for Jack/Jill fucking or the people butthurt about never getting to screw Helspawn to realize how big the incest boner around here is. 

That's true, now that you mention it, but not everyone posts on the forums. I've been around for years, far before T.I.T.S was a thing. Yet I only recently made an account. The forums aren't a huge majority of overall people, and although they aren't vocal, they should be taken into consideration as well.

(People really were butthurt about the Helspawn situation. People are STILL butthurt about that.)

The incest boner is understandable, tbh. Overcoming taboo for the sake of love/ primal lust is where most of it's appeal comes from. That part is what appeals to me, personally. I'm not too into incest that I'd call it a fetish of mine, since breaking taboo is a fetish of mine in general, incest just happens to overlap with it.

 

[Karretch]

Bah, even by today's standards with contraceptives and other such things to protect against pregnancies, especially in super-future plot setting, the whole "incest is bad" taboo is unjustified. Unless it's abuse, which would happen anyway, there's no psychological harm except for the people around them who choose to be upset. Hell, unless it's repeated inbreeding over many generations (ex. Western Europe monarchies/nobility or Ancient Egypt) the risk for any defects is minimal. I won't force someone to share my opinion, but I'll damn well defend it.

 

[Jacques00]

And I wouldn't count Astra out just yet. Her Religion is more a code of honor, rather than a set of rules telling you what you can or can't do.

True. But to expand, I didn't mean to incite that a religious person would not be sexual or that her religion is barring her from sex--it's that a religious person would spend more of their time practicing their religion (or being a warrior in this case) than spending time having sex (so the probability of sexual activity is lower--unless of course, sex is the religion). But I could be completely wrong and Astra could turn out to be a total puppyslutkitten. I'm just making prejudgment assumptions!

 

[VantagePoint]

Bah, even by today's standards with contraceptives and other such things to protect against pregnancies, especially in super-future plot setting, the whole "incest is bad" taboo is unjustified. Unless it's abuse, which would happen anyway, there's no psychological harm except for the people around them who choose to be upset. Hell, unless it's repeated inbreeding over many generations (ex. Western Europe monarchies/nobility or Ancient Egypt) the risk for any defects is minimal. I won't force someone to share my opinion, but I'll damn well defend it.

Nah, I totally agree with you. What two consenting adults do in their bed is none of my business. Just because I'm personally not into real life incest, doesn't mean I'm going to shame a loving couple.

This topic is strictly about people unknowingly coming across unwanted content until it's too late.

True. But to expand, I didn't mean to incite that a religious person would not be sexual or that her religion is barring her from sex--it's that a religious person would spend more of their time practicing their religion (or being a warrior in this case) than spending time having sex (so the probability of sexual activity is lower--unless of course, sex is the religion). But I could be completely wrong and Astra could turn out to be a total puppyslutkitten. I'm just making prejudgment assumptions!

The world needs more puppyslutkittens.

Savin is doing god's work.

I dunno about the chance of sexual activity being lower, the Nyreans and the Red Myr seem to get along just fine, even though their entire culture is militaristic. 

 

[DjinnOfArc]

That's true, now that you mention it, but not everyone posts on the forums. I've been around for years, far before T.I.T.S was a thing. Yet I only recently made an account. The forums aren't a huge majority of overall people, and although they aren't vocal, they should be taken into consideration as well.

I feel like if someone was that disturbed with shade being your sister, they would have spoken-up already. The fact that shade was your sister was known before the release of the dungeon, and if someone was disgusted by it, then they should have said something. Maybe then something will be done, but I highly doubt that it will be fixed at this point. (The only reason it would be fixed is if it was as bad as Steph Irson, which it wasn't.)

It's very hard to get the ideas and feelings of the non-vocal group, and the reason I feel is self explanatory. If they really were disturbed by shade incest, then they simply should have spoken up.

 

[VantagePoint]

I feel like if someone was that disturbed with shade being your sister, they would have spoken-up already. The fact that shade was your sister was known before the release of the dungeon, and if someone was disgusted by it, then they should have said something. Maybe then something will be done, but I highly doubt that it will be fixed at this point. (The only reason it would be fixed is if it was as bad as Steph Irson, which it wasn't.)

It's very hard to get the ideas and feelings of the non-vocal group, and the reason I feel is self explanatory. If they really were disturbed by shade incest, then they simply should have spoken up.

That's true, but again, the forums are still a minority. There are lots of people who've never even visited the forums. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be kept in mind when doing content like this and not giving players prior warning.

I'm curious, what was the Steph Irson situation?

 

[Karretch]

Steph was forcefully modded w/ the temp or real treatment on NT. While the other TFs were happenstance from her scenes, this one was a deliberate, and technically illegal, action performed on her against her will that was broadcast to the galaxy.

 

[Nordi]

ToutedDjinn is right. If it was a problem the forums/blog comments would have ignited faster then Fen can drop trou to a new milky tittied waifu. With that said, some things are better to just leave alone if no one is actually raising an uproar about it. Which this is the case in my own personal opinion. As for Step Irson... yea less focus on drama and more focus on happy fappin!

 

[Etis]

what to say in a situation like this... other than “Hey, sis, nice to meet you!”

For me, situation was never an issue, but Shade's reaction was. As well as character's own reaction, BTW. If I'm ok with what happened, and my character is freaked out, it is sorta immersion breaking.

 

[DjinnOfArc]

That's true, but again, the forums are still a minority. There are lots of people who've never even visited the forums. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be kept in mind when doing content like this and not giving players prior warning.

I'm curious, what was the Steph Irson situation?

Who said the forum was the only way they could express there concerns? They could have simply left a comment on the channel log that it was introduced, or sent Fen or someone a email or something (Not sure if the email thing is a legit thing though... maybe?)

Steph Irson was a huge deal back when you could meet her on planet 4, and the whole thing stemmed from her show on New Texas, where she was forced to take the treatment on air, without her consent. Thus, making her a bimbo without her consent. Once you could meet her on planet 4, you could see the effects the treatment had on her, and her character. (Air headed, etc.) A lot of people were butt hurt about that, which lead to her being taken out of planet 4, and I think the new texas show as well?)

 

[Couch]

A religious person, even one who's especially devout, does not necessarily spend more than a few hours a day actively practicing their religion.  Especially a warrior cult because there's only so much exercise you can do in a day before it's counterproductive.  There's no reason Astra being religious would cause her to not want to have sex.  It's more likely that if she doesn't want to have sex it's because she's just not that into you.