Could someone explain to me the appeal of Male to Female TF for me?

[Mario]

Given the amount of games involving M2F transformation I was wondering to who this kind of game would have an attraction because I dont get that at all.


Being male and really only interesstet in male on male action I am baffeled who would like this kind of content. Dont get me wrong, I am not judging it in any way. Its just ... I dont get it . Is it a fetish more attractiong to straight men, or maybe women, or gay men (or women) who just like different things then me? For me it is totally a bomb having a male character transformed into a women and then have sex with other men, or being sub to them, or enslaved or whatever these games involve ... I am a bit confused. So if someone could explain to me why this is such a big hit on sites like tfgames, for example, I would very much appreciate it

 

[razorrozar]

If you don't get a fetish, no one can really explain it to you. You either fetishize it or you don't. That said I can try to explain to you why I, personally, like MtF stuff.


First of all, I'm bisexual, so anything that incorporates "the best of both worlds" is naturally going to do things for me. Second, I'm a switch - I can get off on both dominating and being dominated. MtF stuff quite frequently involves domination, so that's another tick for me. Third, I'm a big fan of breast inflation, which MtF includes by nature. Fourth, I sometimes fantasize about being a woman myself - not that I'm trans or genderqueer, just about what it would be like to experience sex from the female perspective. MtF lets me experience that vicariously. Fifth and finally, as a male feminist (or at least ally - I'm not entirely sure to what extent a man can be a feminist), there's often an element of "comeuppance" in MtF works that the vindictive part of me really enjoys.


That's why I like MtF stuff. I hope this helps you understand at least a little bit.

 

[razorrozar]

Also, @razorrozar: Don't let regressives tell you a man can't be a feminist. 


 

Haha, I appreciate the reassurance, but my doubts about male feminists are mostly my own. My perspective is, I support the goals of feminism, but I do so because I object to the way women are treated on moral and ethical grounds. I can't claim personal grounds (which, to me, is often the most powerful part of a female feminist's story - how she, personally has been affected by the patriarchy) because I'm not a woman - and I'd never presume to claim personal grounds on behalf of someone else. Glass ceiling? Doesn't apply to me. 'She was asking for it'? I don't have to worry about it. I'll never be called a slut for having the temerity to seek out and enjoy sex, or a 'frigid bitch' for having the nerve to turn down sex. My position is one of inescapable privilege, and to me being a feminist is about personal struggle more than anything else - a personal struggle in which I have no more investment than I choose to have.


Anyway that's my feminism rant (which may be the first time those words have been said by someone who isn't an MRA xD ).

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

Don't let regressives tell you a man can't be a feminist

Whether or not they should is another story entirely. :/


Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[razorrozar]

Whether or not they should is another story entirely. :/  


Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I'm watching you, Nik. 

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

I'm watching you, Nik. 

Don't worry, I won't try to start anything, or even try to deliver a rant of my own. Even though feminism-related discussion are the furtherst things from being a relevant and hot debate topic in the good old Bearland, I know that it can easily start a shitstorm. Even the Bullshit section of this forum is too good to clatter with nonsense like that. ¬¬


We can take it to the PM's if you are inclined, any kind of debate would be a decent language practice. Also, vindictive boner is a pretty sneaky thing and can lead to some really bad places.


Anyway, a few relevant things I can add to the OP's discussion would be: physical disempowerment is apparently a big thing that is not even always goes hand in hand with sexual submission. As is some sort of 'sensual/sensory envy', since the supposedly insensitive nature of an average male form is a common trope in porn nowadays.


Also, when combined with the decidedly traditional outlook on female roles (in sex and in general), it is a good escapist fantasy for a lazy person - suddenly to become someone who has enough merit and value on the grounds of simply being, and to be stripped of all that pesky agency and the need to compete. That one goes hand in hand with submission in a more general sense, as well as of sexual variety.

 

[razorrozar]

@Nik_van_Rijn Nah, I was just messing with you But if you want a friendly debate I'd be happy to oblige.


...In the morning. It's midnight here. 


Anyway, your first point definitely plays into it, which I hadn't thought about before; the "thrill of helplessness" is definitely a thing. The latter two points I don't really see, but things titillate people for different reasons and I'm willing to accept that those may play a part for some people.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

...In the morning. It's midnight here. 

Yeah, communicating over a dozen of timezones is a bitch. Good night, man.

 

[Mario]

Thanks for the answer anyway   I did not want to cause a discussion about femenism because that may ignite some nasty stuff and toxic exchanges.


You are right, I probably won't "get" whats appealing about that but then again I have my own kinks and fantasies mainly involving guy on guy action. I was just surprised about the amount of MtF games around with the protagonist then being submissive towards a man and very little amount of games that have a male protagonist staying male and being submissive to another guy. Maybe its confussion and a bit disappointment about there being a lot of games of type A (that I dont care about) and far to less (in my opionon :$) of type B that I would very much like to play .

 

[OnyxDrakkenblade]

Given the amount of games involving M2F transformation I was wondering to who this kind of game would have an attraction because I dont get that at all.


Being male and really only interesstet in male on male action I am baffeled who would like this kind of content. Dont get me wrong, I am not judging it in any way. Its just ... I dont get it . Is it a fetish more attractiong to straight men, or maybe women, or gay men (or women) who just like different things then me? For me it is totally a bomb having a male character transformed into a women and then have sex with other men, or being sub to them, or enslaved or whatever these games involve ... I am a bit confused. So if someone could explain to me why this is such a big hit on sites like tfgames, for example, I would very much appreciate it

It's pretty clearly, as everyone else seems to have sort of danced around or lead into their own bailiwick, not your cup o' tea. The best I can tell you about it is my personal experience. I identify as genderfluid some people call it genderqueer (but I don't feel all that odd so I choose fluid). In any case, games where I can play various aspects of my psychological gender, let me do my make believe in a way that supports my psychology instead of hampers it. Keep in mind though, we haven't even gotten into the kink stuff yet. I hope that this might give some kind of a window into how some of us get there.


P.S.: The only thing I want to put into the feminist conversation is, that I would like to see equality for women. I don't want to support anything that turns things into oppression or repression of men though.

 

[BubbleLord]

Because MtF has boobs and everyone has to admit boobs are cool. Flat boobs or car-sized, boobs are the future.


... But yeah, TLDR: there's no way to really explain it. I mean, just look at the fetishes that are banned on Fenoxo yet there are dark parts of the internet that thrive off them. MtF transformation is practically vanilla compared to those.

 

[Mario]

Because MtF has boobs and everyone has to admit boobs are cool. Flat boobs or car-sized, boobs are the future.


... But yeah, TLDR: there's no way to really explain it. I mean, just look at the fetishes that are banned on Fenoxo yet there are dark parts of the internet that thrive off them. MtF transformation is practically vanilla compared to those.

I figured as much as MtF being pretty common aka vanilla from the vast amount of games featuring it. I think I can at least comprehend now why it may be appealing to some or many. For me boobs are just ... meh. Last time I cared about them i wasn't old enough to stand on my own two feat ... literally, not meant as a figure of speech ... and ever since they are just .. there. So nope, I dont think boobs are cool and I dont agree on that

 

[Nonesuch]

Because turning a boy into a girl and then schtupping them so good they embrace it is the hottest thing in the world.

 

[razorrozar]

Because turning a boy into a girl and then schtupping them so good they embrace it is the hottest thing in the world.

This, this is wisdom. (Although I tend to identify more with the sub in such things than the dom.)

 

[Woider]

Also, @razorrozar: Don't let regressives tell you a man can't be a feminist. 

There are dozens of us!

 

[Wsan]

Because turning a boy into a girl and then schtupping them so good they embrace it is the hottest thing in the world.

There are some fetishes that are so abstract you would have to write an essay on why they appeal to certain subsets of a population.


This isn't one of them. Embracing the dick is hot.

 

[Nik_van_Rijn]

@Wsan @Nonesuch 


Heresy! Everybody knows that the best MtF stuff features MC getting it on with other ladies.

 

[Wsan]

Ladies with dicks.


The alternative's hot too. That TF comic on exh that has chains in the title is a good example.

 

[razorrozar]

View attachment 4580

Exhibit A.

 

[Couch]

Nonesuch basically gets it.  A big part of the appeal is that the former guy usually ends up totally into being a girl after some hard dickings.  It's silly, sure, but also really hot.  It's why I seized on the opportunity to encourage Savin to let us go that direction with Del: fucking a trap or a shemale in the ass is nice and all, but turning a shy trap into a full-on nymphomaniac girl?  That's golden.

 

[shadefalcon]

Nonesuch basically gets it.  A big part of the appeal is that the former guy usually ends up totally into being a girl after some hard dickings.  It's silly, sure, but also really hot.  It's why I seized on the opportunity to encourage Savin to let us go that direction with Del: fucking a trap or a shemale in the ass is nice and all, but turning a shy trap into a full-on nymphomaniac girl?  That's golden.

I would love to see this.


As for the topic at hand. I view the act of making a genderbendered man love the D as a gentler form of mindbreaking...which is a bit of a fetish of mine...

 

[Ethereal Dragon]

Nonesuch basically gets it.  A big part of the appeal is that the former guy usually ends up totally into being a girl after some hard dickings.  It's silly, sure, but also really hot.  It's why I seized on the opportunity to encourage Savin to let us go that direction with Del: fucking a trap or a shemale in the ass is nice and all, but turning a shy trap into a full-on nymphomaniac girl?  That's golden.

There is a god

 

[Nephilim_Anunnaki]

I don't know, maybe because I am a man that would like to be transformed into a woman?

 

[Glassboy]

Personally, being a femboy myself, I don't get it at all. I could see it being interesting to genderfluid people or people who are experimenting with gender and I know there are transgender people who'd obviously fantasize about just waking up in the body of the opposite sex one day but they usually aren't sexual and are usually born from the frustrations of, y'know, being transgender.

Any FtM stuff I see mostly has Sub/Dom elements. If the viewer (you know what I mean, the main character stand-in placement for the viewer) is supposed to be getting turned into a girl it seems to me that it has more to do with escaping traditional masculine roles in an exaggerated way* or it's a way of dealing with their own homophobia (As in if I'm forcibly turned into a bimbo then I have an excuse to suck cock, also it's technically straight now.) But I've seen a few occasional ones where the viewer turns their childhood bully or asshole boss into a girl and fucks them, obviously a domination fantasy type thing.

Honestly it mostly seems to me that their's an underlying theme of objectifying women in these fantasies that upsets me so much. If men want to be bottom fuck sluts with their assholes constantly plugged then they should be allowed to feel comfortable with that, regardless of what all the submissive women who want to keep their positions as bottoms claim. (That last bit was a joke; I'm a funny guy.)

Ugh, I don't like talking about trans stuff because I'm afraid I'll offend someone (apologies in advance), and this is all just conjecture formed from my opinion, but I am so sick of every trappy guy being instantly treated like they were born to service men and they all have to be "taught" to be "girls" (looking at you Delilah). I'm also probably too mad and tired to be ranting about my opinions on the internets right now but I'm doing it anyways.

*Just an excerpt from Laura's Playground (A weirdly named site for trans-folk) about why men crossdress. Link to page

Dressing can relieve the stress involved in living up to the perceived male role model as a tough, problem solver. The slightest deviation from this role may lead to a feeling of temporary inadequacy. Pretending to be a girl gives a release from male peer pressures. When the dressing is completed the CD feels much calmer and more able to face his role.

I know Crossdressing isn't quite the same as MtF but I think it's the same underlying principal.

Sorry for this wall of text :S

 

[Couch]

Crossdressing and MtF are related in some regards, but also extremely different.  Crossdressing is almost entirely about attitudes and the crossdresser trying to feel feminine, whereas the reason MtF recipients often become nymphomaniacs is often because they have a male sex drive, which is often considered rightly or wrongly to be much higher than a woman's, in a female body.


There's also a recurring element of the transformed retaining an understanding of the male body that can, at least allegedly, only be acquired through having lived in it.  Having been formerly male means the new woman not only has a male's sex drive, but has an instinctive understanding of how to pleasure men that surpasses that of a woman with the same level of sexual experience.  There's an optical illusion of sorts going on where we imagine the result of MtF to have the most desirable sexual traits of both men and women: a voracious sexual appetite and natural aptitude for pleasing men combined with a female body that's usually quite attractive and yes, avoids any discomfort regarding gayness.


It should further be noted that the reader of a fetish does not necessarily want to actually be the recipient of said fetish.  Most readers of MtF, I imagine, are quite comfortable with being whatever gender they are, and don't "project" into the story's protagonist.  I'm quite happy to be a mostly-straight male, enjoying MtF doesn't mean I'm genderfluid because it's not a fetish I would want to actually happen to me personally.  It's fiction, not reality.

 

[JDeko]

I don't really like the going full female part of it, I'd rather just stop at trap, and get bonked by girls with toys or futas if strapons aren't available. 


I honestly don't really see any sexuality in masculinity, like for the life of me I can't comprehend finding any part of the male body sexually attractive whereas the whole female body is attractive to me, so up until the dongle becomes a lady pocket [at this point Futas have created a disparity in my mind between penises and lady-penises] the thrill would be finding sexuality in my body, finding myself sexy and even being able to turn myself on. 


I'd also love the feeling of being the domestic one, not having to bear the world on my shoulders and being seen by the world as the "provider" or, owing to earlier comments, being seen as an "oppressor" or part of some mythical/mystical/shadowy "patriarchy" doing evil and systematically keeping others down. I'd love to be a housewife, to have my contribution to a relationship be support and nurturing instead of having to lead the way. 


I see nothing wrong with masculinity and honestly find the attacks on it infuriating but I'm only half-joking when I say to people my only chance of ever being fully happy being "myself" is if we get Ghost in the Shell-level full prosthetic bodies and I can go "give me the lithe female body, keep the boobs, and mount a meat sword attachment into the lady garden slot."  

 

[Kesil]

There's also a recurring element of the transformed retaining an understanding of the male body that can, at least allegedly, only be acquired through having lived in it.  Having been formerly male means the new woman not only has a male's sex drive, but has an instinctive understanding of how to pleasure men that surpasses that of a woman with the same level of sexual experience.  There's an optical illusion of sorts going on where we imagine the result of MtF to have the most desirable sexual traits of both men and women: a voracious sexual appetite and natural aptitude for pleasing men combined with a female body that's usually quite attractive and yes, avoids any discomfort regarding gayness.

Now this is something I had never thought of. Funny how I can see some kind of "males are the only ones who can please males, no homo" idea in a fantasy that's supposed to put a male in a "non-male" situation.

 

[Omnibomb]

I personally don't get it (and indeed pretty much despise it) since i rly only enjoy dominant or equal male on submissive or equal female(s)

 

[JDeko]

I dislike the full sex change much the same way I really dislike abusive/angry/demeaning BDSM stuff as it comes really close to a strong fetish but then makes such a left turn it breeds a lot of negative feelings due to high hopes dashed.

 

[ThatOneJester]

Whether or not they should is another story entirely. :/  


Sorry, couldn't help myself.

From what I can tell, Razor is the good kind of Feminist.


Just for the simple fact that he is okay being on this site.


So I give him thumbs up!!!