Cloud 10

Discussion in 'Showcase' started by Noob Salad, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    1. I'll ask Noob to start doing that, yes.

    2. The laser you find in the mine is the same handheld one you can buy off Paltrey. It can be used in certain events, it's certainly not big or powerful enough to attach to your ship. A weapons and ship upgrades shop run by twin futa is in the works, I'm hoping we can get at least a bare bones version of it next month.

    3. Thank @SoAndSo !

    4. Generic warm bodies will not be recruitable. However there will be other things you can do with them later in the game, such as getting them to populate your base, or using them to amuse Iannan. We may also add a simple drop off option, if you want to play nice.

    5. Struggling to parse what you're asking here, but yes once we get to adding crew members you'll certainly have the option to sit back and watch Iannan play with them, as you can currently with the pirate.

    6. Lots. Unfortunately right now I'm working on some more boring old human sex, just because of where our larger priorities currently lie.

    7. You'll be able to both use and work in the bordello eventually.

    8. Ship upgrades are definitely going to be a thing. Ship capturing, probably not.

    9. Data that can actually be used will be used in quests, a couple of which are in the works (one involving Shand).

    10. There will be more events (and bad ends) that fire off running out of fuel. Frogapus is actually work on about a dozen right now.

    11. You will never get personal weapons, it runs against our central design principles. Creating a Reacher Farm? Maybe.

    And thanks. You can look at updates, and more in-depth explanations of where we're going with C10, on our Patreon.
     
    Nightshade878, William. and SoAndSo like this.
  2. Stemwinder

    Stemwinder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    When you say CGs do you mean pictures like the TiTS image pack or a visual novel, embedded into scenes to give some visual flair, or more like character portraits? And is this to be a paid-only feature? The wording is a bit vague.
     
  3. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Depictions of scenes embedded within them, and character portraits.
     
  4. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    The player will always have a portrait visible on the side, like they currently do.

    Sex scenes will have a single CG visible on screen in a fixed position until the scene ends. It might be hard to visualize until you've seen it for yourself, but you might have already noticed how the buttons disappear during a long scene.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. runingman69

    runingman69 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2018
    I am a big fan of those bothric and sand traps from tits and coc. My question is any egg stuff planned for your game?
     
  6. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    I have at least one egg-stuffing race planned, yes!
     
    runingman69 likes this.
  7. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Another month, another update. Changelogs available in the usual places.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. FullyAutomated

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2019
    How do I get the new version? (The FAQ says the game is supposed to update automatically, but that's not happening.)
     
  9. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    What version does it say on the start screen?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. FullyAutomated

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2019
    2019-07-15 (Public Build)

    But now when I opened it, it said it's installing stuff. Funny.

    [Edit]: And now it's 2019-09-05 (Public Build). So never mind, I guess.
     
  11. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    So it's working for you now? Great!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. TheDarkMaster

    TheDarkMaster Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    I've done a run through the game now. I'm heading out of town for awhile, so I wanted to share what I did get to see so far. It's rare to see a game that's actually worth the time and effort to do a dive into and share thoughts on.

    Glancing through the comments, I fairly sure I've missed something. Likely it's because I never went that deep into the cloud, I wasn't given a reason to and the moment I went past distance 5 I ran into a fight that was far beyond my ability to win. So I assumed I wasn't suppose to go there yet. The game isn't bad as a prototype, though it's got a long ways to go. I'm not a fan of the 1d dungeon system combined with the fuel limits. I think that the two are working against each other in the current design and it would be better if you either had a more granular map to explore or you didn't have to worry about fuel and instead going deeper was about pushing your luck and something you decided on the fly rather than before you even left. If things are going well, maybe I will go a few steps deeper? If you take a lot of damage, you really have no choice but to retreat anyway. Things are pretty grindy at the moment and there's no apparent goals other than just gathering resources to buy the next thing and repeatedly attempting the same skill check over and over until your skill is high enough to pass. I'd like a little more direction and clearer objectives when going into the cloud or at least to know that there's nothing to find if that hasn't been implemented yet.

    Combat is a shell and I can't really comment on it in a general sense. The real time aspect could be interesting, but it's just a button masher at the moment.

    The rogue servitor AI companion was interesting at first, but over time she felt more and more shallow to me as a character. She seems one dimensional, only caring about gathering information and 'understanding' sapients by blowing their minds out with sex. If she's going to be a constant companion to the player, the condescension and innuendos are going to get tiring. Periodically stopping so she can grope you out of nowhere was confusing first, then it became annoying since it interferes when quickly clinking though map navigation. There'd sometimes be an event that I'd accidentally clicked through since the buttons were in the same place as the map locations. It wasn't until later that I realized that was just her periodically groping me. I have not touched her submission content, but every warning sign implies to me that it's simply not my thing (looks like sluttification/biombofication), so I cannot comment on that. I did play long enough to build her robot body and then put my foot down, but that's not really my thing either (demanding servitude and being called master).

    The overall writing is good. I saw very few typos or grammatical errors. Good descriptions of locations and events. I can't really comment on the general quality of the sex scenes, as I only saw and read through three of them. There were a couple others, but I skipped them because the kinks weren't to my interest. The few spots that seemed off where parts with awkward fill in the blanks based on player choices/transformations or didn't make sense for the specific body I had.

    The game is a broad appeal game with a wide variety of kinks. Most are properly signposted, but there's a bad tendency to throw the player to the wolves in some cases. Since surprising your players is the worst possible thing you can do as an adult dev when it comes to adult content, instances where the player is suddenly in a fight or against a skill check they can't win with a sex scene behind it without warning stick out like a sore thumb. The player hasn't given permission for them to be ravaged in a space harpy gangbang if they have no idea that jumping to distance 6 has that high difficulty fight in it. The worst instances is right at the start of the game, which has an unavoidable tentacle pod scene if you don't pick the correct character build. If players are not into that, and most probably aren't, you're going to give a terrible first impression.

    I'd strongly recommend adding a list of kinks (ex: transformation, rape, monsters, etc) and pairings (m/m, m/f, f/h) to both the title screen of the game and the game description whenever you advertise it somewhere. Make it clear things are optional and if there are specific kinks that get more attention than others.

    Lastly, here's the notes that I took while playing the game. Some of this stuff was mentioned above already:
    -Tentacle monster at the start of the game is poor form. It forces a specific build if you aren't into tentacles without warning the player. Mandatory or unavoidable sexual content like that is always bad unless tentacle pods are the central theme/fetish of the game. A non-sex scene option should always be available to the player here.

    -The initial transformation scene reads very off if the player doesn't want to be changed. It reads like a fill in the blanks scene with something completely inappropriate stuck in. Maybe the choice should come sooner and have something like the PC struggling away in the event they have no desires for a different form or have a completely different page of events for a non-changed PC?

    -Accepting slavery immediately: Wow, it's a choice to not play the game. I understand the purpose of this is suppose to be a game over for running out of money, but it doesn't play out in a way that makes sense if the player picks it immediately.

    -When you first return to you ship the game says that the officials confiscated your scrap from the tutorial fight. You keep it and you can even have already sold it by the time you return to the ship.

    -I'm surprised that Iannan has nothing special to say if you give the ship her name. She effectively is the ship after all.

    -Cooperation between natural and artificial intelligence has great merits. One is forged through natural selection for billions of years to become a philosopher and builder of civilization, a highly adaptable generalist. The other is purpose built to complete specific tasks to the utmost of efficiency, highly specialized. Iannan's idea of cooperation is a very strange one, it sounds like just turning people into extra memory. I assume something like this is intentional?

    -Talking to Iannan -> Cooperation -> ???? "... I trish to do so much for you." - wish? She actually uses this word several times later on, so I don't think it's an error. I can't copy text directly out of the game, so it's hard to report typoes.

    -Some actions take time, even when they probably shouldn't. For example, simply bringing up the menu to repair armor takes 5 minutes even if you don't spend any scrap.

    -Speaking of which, the amount of scrap you have to spend to repair even a single point of armor is ridiculous. Converted to gold, it costs 60 for 1 point of armor in the cloud and only 3 in the port.

    -Getting more stat points by repeatedly failing the same test is really easy. This doesn't work that well with the pass/fail system. That rock ship and the pirate in the fighter let you raise observation and guts really high. The character builder doesn't really fit either, when those starting stats quickly lose all meaning.

    -Why don't you have the option of conversing with Iannan inside the Cloud?

    -There isn't really enough information in combat at this time to make much in the way of strategic decisions. It's probably placeholder, but I wish I know what my hit chances are on my weapon and special attack to help decide what I should do.

    -You can reduce submission even when there's no submission to reduce.

    -After opening the sex submenu for Iannan, there's no cancel/return button. Tested on the dom route.

    On capturing ships in the thread: Rather than capturing ships in combat letting you keep or change your ship, you can do as FTL does and have taking ships intact give better/different rewards. Weapons that focus on disabling the enemy rather than destroying them can be a high risk / high reward strategy. Even equipping a disabling weapon means that you have one fewer hardpoint for proper weapons. Capture can be the main way to acquire warm bodies. Some quests might require you capture specific enemies or give better rewards.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Thank you for the detailed criticism. It seems like you basically hated the game, which is a shame, but you reasonably explained why. I'll run through some of the points you brought up:

    There's a few things in your post I don't really understand and this is one of them. None of the 3 enemies currently in the game are particularly challenging imo, you can more or less auto to win, which is as intended since there's no way to purchase more weapons/upgrades at this time. Balancing the combat system will be a running challenge and as you note yourself is barebones right now, I will be going back and tinkering with it once we start adding more player-side options.

    These elements aren't working against each other, the whole point is for the player to balance their fuel concerns and hold space against accessing the more valuable and interesting encounters found further within the zone. It is indeed exactly about pushing your luck. That's the intention, anyway.

    This and your well-written point about intelligences is more of an issue with where the game is right now. Iannan and her needs and wishes will be fleshed out a lot more as the game continues. To begin with, because this is a smut game, I felt it was important to front-load that she is very sexual and thinks of you in largely sexual terms. Other people have asked about the being equal partners thing. That was an original goal of the Hand So/Iannan content, but it's fallen to the way-side simply because of the amount of stuff I have to produce. I may return to the idea later because I am aware it's popular.

    I've asked Noob to do this a couple of times and I'm not sure why he hasn't. I'll talk to him again about adding an FAQ/kink list to the title screen.

    As regarding your notes, there's a lot of good catches in there largely to do with jankiness and poor balance I agree with, and we'll crack on with fixing some of those next week. However, the 'trish' thing is very much intentional and I think you've misunderstood by clicking through stuff you didn't read. Serious point regarding the reacher pod: It's there to illustrate a simple point, that sometimes you will fail a stat check in this game, and will get fucked as a result. If you simply will not abide by that, the pod's there to tell you to not go any further.

    EDIT: Been reminded you can actually skip the entire tutorial, so you can have whatever build and give the tentacles a miss regardless. The resources you miss are hardly gamechanging.
     
    #43 Nonesuch, Oct 12, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  14. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Hey there, just wanted to respond to your technical points (None can do the other ones).
    • Added tags, fixed the sex menu return and reduce submission issues.
    • I'm not sure what you mean by not being able to copy text (works fine for me).
    • When you get your scrap taken it happens when you land on Auspice and before you get off the ship (but you can still have some scrap left over to sell).
    • Finally, there is a tentacle warning tooltip, but it might not be in the public build yet (you can always skip the intro regardless).
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #44 Noob Salad, Oct 12, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  15. TheDarkMaster

    TheDarkMaster Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    On my cell now, so responces will be briefer(?). I don't hate the game, but it's hard not to come accross that way when posting large critiques/reports. Especially early prototypes.

    If I hated it I would have quit right away and probably would not have commented. I very nearly did because of the tentacle pod, but was glad I didn't as that was not a good representation of the game. I strongly recommend rethinking that, this is NOT a game that focuses on forced content. There isn't really a middle ground here. An adult game either is all about forced content or it should not have any.

    The chimera wrecked me with a missile weapon from full health. The fight wasn't even close.

    At the moment Iannan reads to me like a villain. Someone who seeks to unmake civilization and turn people into pleasure slaves. Someone the PC must escape the influence of and defeat or lose their mind to. That's fine if that's the intention, but I don't think it was. I do really like cooperation stories with AI and have thought about it a lot.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Savin likes this.
  16. Stemwinder

    Stemwinder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    I don't feel that reading Iannan as a villain is wrong. She makes you quite aware that she'd holding your leash even if she's not forcing the issue. The relations between the PC and her are probably meant to feel like you're tangling with something dangerous. And in a way she is forcing the player into certain scenarios; she says quite clearly that if the ship is boarded by hostiles your body will be used to quell their urges whether you agree to it or not.

    I do hope there's more to it than just the dom/sub mechanics we've seen so far, though, I'm not particularly interested in letting her twist the PC into a bimbo or something or in trying to get her to go along with your delusion that you're in control of her. To me it's got a more subtle and existential eroticism to it, the whole idea that she's in your head, whispering in your ear, tempting you with visions of what you could be if you cooperate and pouting if you stubbornly refuse to get involved with this thing (or even try to work against it to free yourself). If it was all sexbot play it'd be a bit disappointing.
     
    Nonesuch likes this.
  17. TheDarkMaster

    TheDarkMaster Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    I've been putting some thought into this while I was away. I think it comes to that same idea of two ideas being fine on their own, but not working well together. I could easily have made some mistakes or missed things for this comment, as I still haven't dived back into the game again. I'm iffy on the threat the main villain poses. I apologise for how confrontational this post is going to be, this is not born out of malice but done in hopes of helping you.

    Almost everything about the game screams broad appeal. The breadth of sexual content available, the amount of control you have over your own character's appearance, the game's mechanics, themes of exploration, and the general goal of pulling yourself up from debt but still having the option to quit at any time. Putting aside the tentacle pod and placeholder balance/mechanics, Iannan is the only thing that sticks out like a sore thumb. Here is a companion character that the player is forced to take on and she can't just be ignored if she isn't your thing. This character is central to the story and constantly commenting on various events. Unlike the PC, you have no control over her appearance, behavior, or a large part of her advances. You are going to get harassed by her unless you go out of your way to do favors, buy her a body you might never intend for her to use, and refuse to engage with her mechanics.

    On the flip side, Iannnan herself feels kinda toothless. Her presentation is such that a player might feel like they should be trying to park the ship inside the nearest star or black hole as soon as possible, but you can also just choose to give up whenever you want. There's a mutual enemy, but there's nothing really motivating the player to go after him aside from revenge. Unless I missed something, he reads like a small time pirate who stumbled on the ship. He knew he needed to destroy Iannan, but wasn't willing to sacrifice himself in the process. Even the possibility that he couldn't negotiate an alliance or transport was too frightening to him that he didn't even try it. Better you than me. That's not evil, just cowardice. Iannna is far more dangerous, and is actively messing with the PC. She won't offer her robot body in the PC's place after you built it if the ship is boarded. However she won't actually do anything harmful unless the PC asks her to and can be easily convinced to back off. Isn't a big part of the bimbofication kink that it's forced?


    I don't get the impression that Cloud 10 has a core theme or goal. It's being pulled in different directions that I don't think work together. I'd like to throw out two short game ideas:

    Unity and Discovery: First, a game about exploring an unexplored region of space full of wonder and the ruins of ancient aliens. Our custom designed PC meets up with an ancient AI that takes on an appearance that offers similar if not equal customization as the PC has. This is the broad appeal game. The AI companion is clearly benevolent, either due to an inbuilt moral code or due to a pragmatic view that they're better working with natural intelligence rather than making an enemy of them. Perhaps they have difficulty trusting sapients that don't love them, in a physical sense, or show their desire for cooperation through open affection. The AI and PC have joined forces to deal with an obvious threat, with a clear negative consequence to more than just the PC if they fail and a reason why the PC has to be the one to solve this problem. Along the way they meet a variety of races which may or may not include sexual escapades which never directly impact the main game's plotline or mechanics. It's all up to the player to give permission first. They face various enemies, both natural intelligences and artificial intelligences, but prevail thanks to their cooperation between that natural and artificial. The AI here is a similar sort of character to Commander Data or EDI.

    Desperation and Fragility: Second, a game where the PC has been stranded on an ancient alien station/base and implanted with cybernetics by an alien entity aboard. The old AI aboard is waking up, and is taking a liking towards the PC. Those likings also involve plans to change the PC, to integrate the PC into itself as a pleasure slave and an extension of its will. It needs the PC to carry itself to other places, so it can spread it's joy and integrate more minds, more sluts. The PC must scavenge the station, find a way to escape, while also fighting off the AI's agents, holding on against the changes that are being forced upon themselves, possibly even make a deal with the devil, and escape before they are fully integrated into the AI or succumb to the pleasures it offers. Even if you succeed, there's no way to escape completely unchanged. This is a niche appeal game, all about forced content, player submission, and bimbofication/slutification. This AI is more like SHODAN or GLaDOS.

    The two of these are perfectly fine adult games. They are radically different, with unique game mechanics, story elements, and sexual content. Each of these feed into the central themes of the game and create a better whole as a result.


    Cloud 10 has something like the mechanics and exploration of the first game, but the companion is the AI from the second with a watered down submission system. There isn't a greater evil that must be overcome ala XERXES and The Many in System Shock 2 that justifies the PC working with SHODAN (though admittedly something like that might be a good addition to the second game idea so the player has a reason to willingly let the AI into their head). However, Iannan would actually be totally fine in her current form, if she was an optional companion. Forced sexual content cannot work in an adult game intended for broad appeal unless it's in an optional quest/area that's clearly signposted or tied to a content flag.

    EDIT: If she were optional, you could go absolutely nuts with her submission/bimbofication mechanics. There'd be no issues with her taking one specific form and constantly harassing the PC if you get her. That's probably the biggest difference between her and Hand So and ultimately why I have an issue with her.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Thank you again for the detailed criticism.

    I disagree with your assertion that C10 lacks core themes and goal. From the off my intention was to create a game where exploration of a strange and hostile space was the key theme, with a companion who poses the question: How much are you willing to give away in order to reach your goals? Submitting to Iannan will ultimately give mechanical benefits for doing so, with the intention that the game ultimately being tough enough that those benefits are genuinely tempting. Submitting to her is optional, it has to be, in order for this dilemma to work. The game has to be expansive and interesting enough for the player to want to explore it, hence its broad appeal.

    Making Iannan a completely optional character is a total non-starter and I'm not sure why you even suggested that. I wouldn't have suggested making Andras an optional presence because he's a character I'd sooner kick my dick off than interact with let alone sleaze on my wife, because I appreciate he's a central character who advances the plot, is supposed to convey something to the player, and may be to the sexual taste of others. You don't have to fuck him, and you don't have to fuck Iannan, but you still have to deal with them; these are central pressures in any story or game.

    Many of your criticisms seem to stem from a frustration that things don't really go anywhere right now. About that I can only apologise, and say we are very young. Iannan asserts you have to find what Laurent is up to, he took your ship and left you to die, the debt ties you to the Cloud, I feel that's strong enough motivation for the player to go looking for now. Eventually you will find out more about both of them which will raise the stakes, in much the same way every Fallout game starts the player off with a simple quest that rapidly develops into something greater.

    Your other big criticism stems from forced sexual content. Again, Iannan is a central presence of the game, an alien intelligence you have to find some accord with. Again, you don't have to fuck her, but she has her own desires and will make clear what they are. Dealing with her is the central conflict/relationship in the game, one which will become more detailed as time goes on. Think of her as a corruption meter if you want.

    Basically making a new game at this point is not going to happen, although mechanical details like exploration, combat and submission are still being refined and will be for a while yet. Your criticisms have firmed up to me that an equanimous path for Iannan where you form some kind of solidarity with her is important though, and it will be definitely something I'll be looking at doing in the future.
     
    valkyr42 likes this.
  19. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Two more things.

    1) Enemies spawn with a random weapon from a pool of weapons associated with that enemy. That's why the same enemy might seem more or less difficult. Eventually you'll have more weapons that you can switch between.

    2) Iannan groping you only happens if you've submitted to her, but that might not reflect in the newest version yet.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. TheDarkMaster

    TheDarkMaster Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    There's definitely growing pains here and my main hope is to try and help smooth them out.

    On themes, so something like 'freedom vs sacrifice'? That can work. It's a common aspect of the broader 'order vs chaos' one, though usually presented as safety vs freedom. I don't think there's a real justification for the player to sacrifice anything at the moment, that would change once the stakes are raised. So it's perhaps too soon to be introducing the submission and Iannan favor mechanics?

    I agree that a path of mutual cooperation is important. If a companion is going to be mandatory it would be best if they're either unobtrusive or there's a very non-offensive path available. Removing the random groping while at low submission will help a lot with the unobtrusive part and having an equal partners path with a non-sexual option as a default should work for anyone who doesn't care for any of the kinks her other paths offer. You don't want to be the vegetarian restaurant that requires its customers eat a meatball to get in. I fear though with that in mind that the submission side of Iannan isn't going to work. How do you make it mechanically interesting to weigh submission vs not submitting? It's very likely to make the game frustrating for players who're not into submitting to a woman and being lobotomised. While someone who is into that is likely to just rush down the submission path as soon as possible and then breeze through the game. Adding more options for Iannan and sacrificing can help, maybe choosing her sex and alternative forms of integration? At the very least, the sex option would mean there's a broader group of people who'd be okay with submitting to him/her.


    You brought up Andras and I do want to mention a few things about SoC. There's also Jezera, who fills a similar sort of role in many ways to Andras but is a woman and plays on different kinks and fetishes. There are minor rewards for submitting either the hero or his wife to one of them but we don't pressure the player mechanically to do so. It's all very opt in only and if you aren't messing with the two demon lords they fade into the background for most of the game. You can have the hero and wife fuck everyone, you can have the two fuck each other only, you can turn the hero gay and only bang the minotaur smith, dwarf architect, and dark elf beastmaster while the wife bangs no one, or you can have both be completely chaste. We've often said around the writing team that the hero has Schrodinger's sexuality, he simultaneously has all sexualities and none, until the player clicks yes on a sex scene option and it all collapses into what the scene requires the hero's sexuality to be. The game's story and mechanics work fine no matter which sexual route you take. Some of the characters fall flat and have weak plots in the case where you don't bang them, but that's a necessary sacrifice. The easiest way to make a broad appeal game is to make it work as if it were a non-adult game.

    The bulk of your corruption comes from non-sexual things like burning down villages and selling out your countrymen. However, these things also weigh down on the hero and cause guilt, which is a purely negative stat that he has to do good deeds to counteract which in turn reduce his corruption. Such as secretly defying your masters and rescuing people. The hero is required to do evil acts to keep himself and his wife alive, resulting in a push and pull between corruption and guilt. That's how we're trying to work corruption mechanically. Bad part is the system isn't well explained to the players at the moment and we're in a major rework on the implementation. A need to find a balance between evil and good is the intention at least.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  21. Shura

    Shura Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Hey, just started playing yesterday and the game is interesting so far. Since my few gripes with this game are already addressed in this thread, I’m just going to ask how far content goes at the moment (and maybe some direction because I’ve found a lot of triggers for progressing relationship and stuff with Iannan isn’t clear to me at least.

    First of all, is there any way at the moment to pay off some of your debt with Paltrey? I already hit the amount he gave in the new contract and I still don’t see any option to pay. And I’m really interested in hearing him talk more about himself too.

    The second thing is, I’ve maxed out the number of submission points to level up Submission with Iannan, but that still hasn’t happened yet. Is there something else I’m supposed to do to trigger that next scene or is it not yet implemented? Because getting to level 1 triggered as soon as I reached port again.

    Also, is Trish ever going to be a reversible thing or are we permanently stuck with her once we let her out so to speak? She annoys me sometimes and I don’t want to get totally bimbofied. Unless she fades back when you lower Submission I guess?

    Is there any way to get info on Andras from someone at the moment or am I just dumb? Because I have zero luck weaseling anything from Lara so far despite having Eloquence past maxed out, and don’t see any options from Shand either. Unless we’re supposed to buy a certain amount of data from him?

    Last thing is, I’m definitely in the camp of people who’d like an equals route with Iannan, but I think a switch route would be cool too. Though I guess that may defeat then dynamic system of the game, so I guess playing switch would just be dropping and raising Submission, which sounds a bit annoying but I can live with it if switch route isn’t feasible.
     
    #51 Shura, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
    valkyr42 likes this.
  22. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    1) Can't pay off your debt yet. In the newest version there'll be a tooltip.

    2) 1 is the max, and the HUD tells you as much in the newest version.

    3) If you didn't want to get bimbofied why'd you bimbofy yourself? Trish is permanent but you don't need to submit to get her.

    4) If you look under your HUD in the newest version it'll tell you the mission to get more info on Laurent isn't implemented yet. Lara's mission line isn't implemented yet either.

    5) The consensual route is what you start out on. If you want to stay consensual with Iannan just don't trigger the sub or dom paths.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  23. Shura

    Shura Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    1) Good to know.

    2) I don’t think I have the newest then since it doesn’t say anything on mine

    3) Because I went in completely blind and was pushing everything to see what happens? >;P And besides, I thought Trish was more a thoughtform than actual transformation. She was cute until she started sticking stupid comments everywhere. I don’t even get a physical tf out of her, boo.

    4) Again, I don’t see it on mine, which is why I asked here.

    5) What if I triggered both?

    EDIT: I forgot to mention, I don’t think tooltips work on mobile, but I haven’t tested the game on a PC yet. Just letting you know why I’m blundering around here.

    Glad this game is still early stage so I can make a new save, lol.
     
    #53 Shura, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  24. TheDarkMaster

    TheDarkMaster Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    I don't think there's a character called Andras in Cloud 10. That's a character in a different game called Seeds of Chaos that was being compared with.

    I think we're all playing on the public version which is from September. I assume that each release is one month behind the patreon one?

    There will always be players who insist on being completionists in games where they really shouldn't be. As a dev, you've done your responsibility by clearly signposting things and asking permission before you put your players in a situation they might strongly dislike. Even saying on the title screen that by playing the game you're going to be forced to partake in the central kink or mandatory content of the game qualifies as asking the player's permission.


    So Trish is the PC's 'inner self'? I don't think I should go deep on this, as I have not gone through that content and almost certainly will not. I do like player submission content, but I very strong aversion to biombification. However, this seems out of place next to the huge amount of customization and variety of possible PCs to play in the game. You can choose what your PC's background is, on their behavior, and even a transformation sequence where Iannan goes after the player's subconcious to determine which form they'd prefer. Is there only one possible Trish? The player isn't playing a prebuilt character with a clear preexisting personality that this can fit into very neatly. You can handwave that by saying that only a PC who actually has her inside them would agree to become her, but even if you don't touch that content Iannan brings that character up and very prominently tries to push the PC into integration to let out their true self. Again, take this with a grain of salt as I have not read the content, but this might be a constant point of contention and an issue for writing the game going forward.

    I'll try to avoid jumping in on things after this.

    EDIT: I was looking at the Patreon to see if there was more information there. There didn't seem to be much in the way of links and information besides a quick story synopsis and link to the game. That's another place that it would be good to include more information about the game or a link to a place where it's listed.

    EDIT2: I forgot I meant to ask if there was anything further in the cloud past 6 jumps other than the chimera? I wanted to know if there were any hulks to explore at the moment.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #54 TheDarkMaster, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  25. Shura

    Shura Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    I completely blame my autocorrect changing that from “Antian”, a.k.a. The douche who tried conned us into dying on a ship with a potentially dangerous AI. Also called “Laurent”, but for some reason I prefer Antian.
     
  26. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Have you encountered Mehra's Fall? That's the most advanced encounter so far.

    Trish is an ambiguous presence who comes out of Iannan hypnotising you. The PC is meant to question how much of her is them and how much of her has been inserted into you via suggestion, although the clear subtext is that she's an invention of Iannan's. But if you wanted that hyper-sexual presence inside your head, how much did she really need to do? As said, she's supposed to be ambiguous. @Shura , I will probably look at ways of removing her at a cost later in the game.

    The paths are mutually exclusive, and will remain so for the sake of my sanity. Equ path will be the 'switch' option.
     
    Shura likes this.
  27. TheDarkMaster

    TheDarkMaster Well-Known Member
    Creator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Not yet, I'll have to check that when I have a chance.

    That's probably fine then. So long as she isn't something you can accidentally stumble on and she isn't required to get to other content that's not associated with her specific kinks (eg: she should not be mandatory to get to lower submission content unless all of that content is player bimbo related).

    In spite of your sanity's cries for mercy, she'll probably be the one that players will want by far the most content and possible paths with since she's the main partner.

    For the benefit of non-developers, it's up to them to figure out how many paths and what kind of content they should contain. It isn't an easy problem to solve, at one extreme you have one hundred characters each with one path, at the other one character with a hundred paths. On top of that, you've got the pressure of trying to balance the content so the game can continue to appeal to a wide variety of players. Since this is a broad appeal game there's a need to balance all the different kinds of content in the game as well as include content that most people will like so they can enjoy it between the content they're really into. I've generally found that something like minimum 40% vanilla, and a few primary kinks that the team is into isn't a bad ballpark for a broad appeal game. Though, how do you divide it up? Where do you draw the line between a popular character, or even just a fetish your current player base likes, taking over the game? This is all being weighed against the needs of your fanbase as well, one that you're relying on for money to fund the project.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  28. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    @Shura Yeah tooltips don't work on mobile, sorry! If you're on the sub path and you want to get off, just lower submission to 0. If you're on the dom route, just increase submission.

    @TheDarkMaster Trish is a bimbo, but getting Trish does not turn the PC into a bimbo. In the future she might open up optional bimbo choices, so she's purposefully tedious to get.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  29. Shura

    Shura Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    @Noob Salad - How would I do that? When I tried in the original save, I could drop experience but not the level itself. Meanwhile, I went from Dom to Sub route easily.

    I made a new separate save regardless, but it’d be good to know regardless.
     
  30. Noob Salad

    Noob Salad Captain Shitpost

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Get your Submission to 0, then you'll get an event on the ship where your submission level should also drop from 1 to 0.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Shura likes this.