Build advice

[Mr.M]

Greetings guys. I messed around with this game a bit and for my true run I decided to make a bulky Mage Charmer, that raises Willpower, Presence and Toughness, but if that spread sounds unoptimal feel free to warn me.

What should my starting path be? Charmer for the stronger lust attacks or Black Mage for the stronger spells? I previously tried a Warrior with max str, tough and willpower investiment but the storm spell dealt next to no damage and I just used Cleave and the inaccurate super strong move.

Yes I blow at this game

 

[Savin]

Focusing on more than one of weapon attacks, spells, and teases is almost always suboptimal -- though by not means will cripple you.

You aren't going to be tanking with that build, so you could probably drop Toughness and get Agility, so your attacks actually hit.

If the "bulk" part of that idea matters more to you, I'd go Black Mage and focus on spells rather than teases, get some heavy armor and a catalyst main hand (like Eryka's sword) and go in on tanking rather than damage. The Warrior level 1 at-will Guarded Stance will help you maintain Threat, and you can fill your recharge slots with things like Blight Orb, Carnal Hex, or Entropic Winds.

If you go high Willpower, high Toughness, medium Strength, medium Agility, you might also want to pick up Lightning Fist to stun priority targets. Or just dump Strength and focus entirely on low-cooldown spells.

 

[Mr.M]

Bulk is actually the least important thing, haha. The main part is Charm attacks, with spells being the secondary one. I remember reading that Charmers can be good at spell casting and that some armors raise both magic and sexiness

 

[TheGSone]

Charmers are good at teasing, at the expense of lacking protective armor. You'll never get the full benefits of Toughness that way.
If you want to use Presence while being tanky, you could use some summoning and buffing.
If you want damage, get a good tank, max Agility and Willpower, and start blasting.
I'm not an expert, but this has worked for me so far.

 

[Mr.M]

I'll try that then, thanks a lot!

 

[undefined]

Charmers are good at teasing, at the expense of lacking protective armor. You'll never get the full benefits of Toughness that way.

Could you elaborate? According to the wiki, Toughness increases HP and physical resistance, isn't that something that Charmer would need (either that or high Agility for high evasion)?

 

[TheGSone]

Could you elaborate? According to the wiki, Toughness increases HP and physical resistance, isn't that something that Charmer would need (either that or high Agility for high evasion)?

You shouldn't be getting hit to begin with. You need a tank for that (Brint, Arona, Atugia, etc) And I can't think of many AoE that target physical resistance.

Agility, on the other hand, is very useful, specially if you wanna mix some spells or attacks in the mix. Also, extra evasion and acting sooner on the turn order. I'm not sure if tease attacks require agility to hit.

 

[undefined]

You shouldn't be getting hit to begin with.

Do you mean that enemies should prefer to target my tank companion, or that if an enemy ignores my tank companion and targets me instead, I should be able to evade, not get hit and try to resist? Or both?

I can't think of many AoE that target physical resistance.

Agility, on the other hand, is very useful

Do I understand correctly that evasion is better because it allows to avoid any type of attack (physical, spell, etc), while toughness mitigates only physical attacks as effectively, and requires willpower or cunning for other resistances?

If yes, then does that also imply that if PC is a tank, agility should be preffered over toughness? Or an optimal tank should have both agility and toughness (to avoid as much attacks as possible, but in rare cases they got hit, it's nice to have more HP to endure this)?

I'm not sure if tease attacks require agility to hit.

According to the wiki, sexiness improves accuracy of tease attacks, so agility seem to not be required, although, if it also increases chance of tease attacks to hit (couldn't find an info if this is the case or not), it's probably nice to have both sexiness and agility.

 

[Loveless]

Do you mean that enemies should prefer to target my tank companion, or that if an enemy ignores my tank companion and targets me instead, I should be able to evade, not get hit and try to resist? Or both?

Both. Agility gives you Accuracy and Initiative on top of Evasion while Toughness only makes you more tanky so if you are not looking to tank and draw Threat for your team you don't really have a reason to go full Toughness. This doesn't mean you can't spec some points into it to be harder kill if you want tho.

Do I understand correctly that evasion is better because it allows to avoid any type of attack (physical, spell, etc), while toughness mitigates only physical attacks as effectively, and requires willpower or cunning for other resistances?

Toughness gives a lot of health so it's good at tanking all damage. Strength, Cunning and Willpower giving resistances are usualy just a nice bonus and won't matter most of the time. A tank can go whatever it wants as long as it maxes out Toughness.

According to the wiki, sexiness improves accuracy of tease attacks, so agility seem to not be required, although, if it also increases chance of tease attacks to hit (couldn't find an info if this is the case or not), it's probably nice to have both sexiness and agility.

As far as I'm aware Tease attacks are unavoidable and simply resisted through Focus, Accuracy probably doesn't matter all that much. I think a tanky Charmer is very much possible going Toughness, Cunning and Presence but adding spells to this is would be useless because you wouldn't have any Willpower.

 

[TheGSone]

I think a tanky Charmer is very much possible going Toughness, Cunning and Presence but adding spells to this is would be useless because you wouldn't have any Willpower.

I don't think that's too viable. Most equipment with sexiness has low defenses, and some tanky equipment even has negative sexiness.

The lack of agility makes you slow and inaccurate with anything but tease attacks. No strength means no armor, and no willpower means no focus.

Only Leadership stands somewhat untouched. So, for this concept, I would go Toughness, Willpower, Presence. This allows good summoning, good teammates, and buffing/healing capabilities

 

[Loveless]

I mean breastplate would be the first really heavy armor you'd buy and it has sexiness, and Initiative won't be a problem if you go Warrior for veteran and wear items that give you Initiative. Going Warrior and wearing heavy armor would mean you lose sexiness from Charmer but I feel that could be made up with using more damaging Companions since you would be the tank in this scenario. The only problem would be is that the theme cohesion would be shit, why is a warrior dressed in heavy armor taking it off every round to tease people?

 

[Loveless]

Also Blessing, don't forget Blessing. Since Blessing is absurdly overpowered with no commitment necessary, just get Blessing and Group Heal and you also become the buffer and healer of the team as well as the tank and dps.

 

[A1teros]

Do things like Aria of Waves and Grand Finale scale off of Presence or Spellpower? If you're intent on using charmer abilities you might be able to get away with compressing your stat spread a bit by using spellpower centric Charmer abilities. That being said I think it'd be stronger to go with Presence, summon something to tank like Flame Knight so you're fulfilling the 'tanking' role, then use things like Allure and Charm Spell to fill the 'charmer' part of the role. Charm Spell being a spell also helps fill the 'mage' bit. Soul Arrow should also work for that bit I think .You could make your At-Will whatever, Great Heal for healing support, Earthward for the extra bulk just in case.

Is this build good? I have no idea, but it would fit the roles you suggested. For teammates, you've got charm damage and a summon. High presence means your teammates stats would be improved so you should lean on them. In light of that having a normal damage dealer for cases where lust wouldn't work, and a supporter to buff everyone since you'll have at least 4 members on the field instead of 3 would be best.

I'd say Hexblade Cait or Spirit Totem Arona would be your best bets for the damage dealer, and then ofc Queen Ryn with her blessing and group heal would be the best aoe support. Hexblade and Spirit Totem are very powerful as is Queen Ryn so that alone would carry you quite far. That ofc makes assessing how good the champ build is if your teammates are doing all the work but hey high presence means they'll have good stats.

Can't really help you on gear since I don't really do tease builds, although helm of heroes is probably good for its leadership bonus.

 

[TheJellyWobblesMenacingly]

Do things like Aria of Waves and Grand Finale scale off of Presence or Spellpower?

Quick primer: Skills (Powers) that scale with attributes are color coded.

Red = Attack power (Strength + Equipment + Buffs)
Blue = Spell power (Willpower + etc...)
Pink/Purple = Sexiness + Libido (Presence + etc...)
Green = Toughness
Orange = Cunning

IRRC [Aria of Waves] and [Grand Finale] are both Charmer powers that scale off Spellpower.

Source: link to the Powers page on the wiki

Greetings guys. I messed around with this game a bit and for my true run I decided to make a bulky Mage Charmer, that raises Willpower, Presence and Toughness, but if that spread sounds unoptimal feel free to warn me.

What should my starting path be? Charmer for the stronger lust attacks or Black Mage for the stronger spells? I previously tried a Warrior with max str, tough and willpower investiment but the storm spell dealt next to no damage and I just used Cleave and the inaccurate super strong move.

Yes I blow at this game

The first question you should ask is what role do you want your champion to have?
DPS? Tank? Support?
Trying to fill too many shoes will just mean you end up being mediocre in all of them.

It sounds like you want to make your champion a damage dealer with an inclination towards either tease attacks and/or spells.

Let's examine some pros and cons...

Scenario 1 - "Lust attacks"

Pros:

There are a lot of horny enemies and boy are they thirsty. Their [FOCUS] stat, basically armor vs lust AND resistances to tease/pheromone/drug/psychic damage are quite low. Some bosses have resistances in the negatives meaning they can end up taking an extra +50/75% extra damage. Also take into account those same enemies may have both high armor and high resistance to physical damage.

The Minotaur Miners in the Undermountain are a good example. They are very bulky against penetrating (physical) damage but being Beastkin (Centaurs/Lupines/Minotaurs) they have a -75% weakness to Blight (aka Dark element) and Pheromone (Lust).

Source: Link to the Taxonomy page on the wiki

A team composed of Sun Dancer Cait/Honey Maiden Azzyran/Ex-cultist Quintillus and a Charmer champ can AoE Tease entire groups into "Jizz in my pants" stupor within the first or second round of combat even on Dark Difficulty.

Cons:

And this is a pretty big one so pay attention... there are also plenty of enemies who are also completely immune to tease/pheromone/drug/psychic damage.

Animals/Elementals/Golems/Ghosts come to mind.

Big tits? Fogettaboutit! Milkshakes aren't bringing them to the yard.
Big cocks? Not hungry for schnnausages.
Asses tight enough to bounce a quarter off of? It just doesn't do anything for them.

Note some of these sexless enemies (Undead/Constructs) are also highly resistant or immune to physical damage. Hope you brought some magic damage or [Leananstones] as backup.

Scenario 2 - "Spell damage"

Pros:

Always use the [Sense] command to figure out the stats of your enemies. Learn their weaknesses... what elements they're weak to... what nicknames will do the most emotional damage.

Demons universally resist Blight & Fire damage but have a crippling weakness to Holy damage, often +50/100% extra damage.
Currently very few enemies resist Storm and Holy damage.

Cons:

Certain areas will shutdown some elements.
Frost damage isn't going to do you much good in the Glacial Rift zone.
Fire is a terrible choice for exploring in the Undermountain.
Maybe don't use Blight damage against Demons... and a certain dastardly Red Rogue.

Scenario 3 - "Hybrid"

Run a Tease focused composition. However keep some weapon oils like [Naptha] or [Blood Iris] to buff yourself or your team in combat to deal (minor) magic damage in melee.

Alternately keep some spells on your spellbar and a change of clothes.
(You can change equipment from the item menu without any penalties beyond the extra inventory space it takes)... but remember to politely ask your opponents to wait. You need a pause in order to slip out of your BDSM getup complete with red ball gag & zippered leather crotch, so you can shimmy into a comfy, voluminous wizard robe. So Poofy!

Or just run away from bad matchups...

 

[Loveless]

I'm back after a day of testing and my findings are that Bolstering Dance is crazy and Tease is dogshit. Never go a tease build, even with absurd sexiness it deals pitiful damage.

 

[Verro]

I'm back after a day of testing and my findings are that Bolstering Dance is crazy and Tease is dogshit. Never go a tease build, even with absurd sexiness it deals pitiful damage.

What did you test it on? As a Charmer tease build for my main Champ I can't say I've noticed pitiful damage, especially after the rework. Most groups hardly make it past a Song of Splendor, and anything still up gets taken out by Allure. Don't even need the Allure if Cait goes first with Blessing. The basic tease attack I mainly use for clean up if needed. This is on normal so dark mode might be a different story.

Tease immune enemies are about the only pains I run in to.

(Also unless the rework changed it and I'm unaware of it. You don't just want sexiness, you want temptation too. Although temptation is much harder to find. I think I can count the items that have it on one hand. Which is why Quin is pretty much a party main for me as his after rest buff is a +10 to temptation)

 

[Loveless]

(Also unless the rework changed it and I'm unaware of it. You don't just want sexiness, you want temptation too. Although temptation is much harder to find. I think I can count the items that have it on one hand. Which is why Quin is pretty much a party main for me as his after rest buff is a +10 to temptation)

I'll be honest I have zero clue how tease works in this game. Sometimes my tease will do 100 damage and one shot the enemy and sometimes it will literally never land no matter how much sexiness I have. And critting is even more inconsistent. Although I was using a rather unorthodox build going Warrior and using the Hornet Shield so a more traditional Charmer build could have been better I don't know. I'll probably spill my long nerd ramblings later here.

 

[Verro]

I'll be honest I have zero clue how tease works in this game. Sometimes my tease will do 100 damage and one shot the enemy and sometimes it will literally never land no matter how much sexiness I have. And critting is even more inconsistent. Although I was using a rather unorthodox build going Warrior and using the Hornet Shield so a more traditional Charmer build could have been better I don't know. I'll probably spill my long nerd ramblings later here.

I've never done a tease build outside of a Charmer, so I can't speak towards that. With sexiness being uncapped now and Charmer's Stylish adding triple your level to sexiness, I'm sure it would have helped. I will however blame inconsistencies on the Rosebloom Shield. It turns all your tease damage into pheromone damage. I have no idea how pheromone damage works exactly, I just know that even on a Charmer, the Rosebloom Shield is usually a tease damage decrease.

Edit: As for how tease works to my understanding:
Sexiness = Attack Power (agi helps with hitting as far as I'm aware)
Temptation = Armor Pen for tease attacks

Tease targets mental resistance and Temptation lowers their Focus so more damage goes through. Enemies with high Libidos also have decreased lust resistance.

Pulled from the combat rework change log
Sexiness has received several changes:

• 1.) It’s no longer tied to tease accuracy
  2.) It’s been uncapped
  3.) Leadership now increases ally sexiness
  4.) Presence now increases it by 2 per point
  5.) It’s now a flat increase to damage amplification (the same way Attack Power and Spellpower work)

 

[Loveless]

Ok so I had no clue temptation was a stat at all, I'll have to go through the wiki to find which items give it now. And I'll try switching Rosebloom for the Shield Orb and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Verro]

Ok so I had no clue temptation was a stat at all, I'll have to go through the wiki to find which items give it now. And I'll try switching Rosebloom for the Shield Orb and see if it makes a difference.

Most of the items that have it are armor and off-hands. The best armor for Sexiness + Temptation is the Bondage Gear. There's armor with more Sexiness, and armor with better protective stats. But nothing matches the 25 Sexiness and 15 Temptation of the Bondage Gear. Thigh High Leather Boots are probably the best footwear, or maybe the Kunoichi Footwear if you want Eva over Armor. Hands would be the Latex Gloves. Head is probably the Titanic Hat, but I use Lureling's Eye. When resolve was a thing I used Choker of the Pain Slut. But with resolve gone I don't know how the choker works now, so I use a Cultist Charm. For rings I use the Ring of Temptation and a Hornet Ring. Shoulders is Cloak of the Deeps and Waist is Evergreen's Bountiful Bag.

Also I use either the Girthy Rod, or the Aphrodisiac Whip with the Harp of Waves or the Noble Harp. The Fox Jewel is probably the best, but I dislike how much good stuff is behind the Kitsune content so I choose to rarely use those things.

Powers I use are Bolstering Dance, Soul Arrow, Allure, Song of Splendor, and Unbreakable

Party is Dancer Cait and Cultist Quin. I switch to Hexblade Cait and Hopknight Quin, and switch out Allure and Splendor to Discord and Sword Soul for tease immune things. I hear Azzy is good but she's a bimbo in most of my games.

 

[undefined]

I hear Azzy is good but she's a bimbo in most of my games.

Do you mean that you kick her into the corrupted honey pool?
I'm not sure if you know, but Azzy has an alternate set that transforms her into bimbo, so if you want her to have that personality and have her as a companion, it's possible. That set of her is more optimal for tease-oriented party anyway AFAIK.

BTW those are really great knowledge dumps about tease builds, thank you!

 

[Rezplz]

Most of the items that have it are armor and off-hands. The best armor for Sexiness + Temptation is the Bondage Gear. There's armor with more Sexiness, and armor with better protective stats. But nothing matches the 25 Sexiness and 15 Temptation of the Bondage Gear. Thigh High Leather Boots are probably the best footwear, or maybe the Kunoichi Footwear if you want Eva over Armor. Hands would be the Latex Gloves. Head is probably the Titanic Hat, but I use Lureling's Eye. When resolve was a thing I used Choker of the Pain Slut. But with resolve gone I don't know how the choker works now, so I use a Cultist Charm. For rings I use the Ring of Temptation and a Hornet Ring. Shoulders is Cloak of the Deeps and Waist is Evergreen's Bountiful Bag.

Also I use either the Girthy Rod, or the Aphrodisiac Whip with the Harp of Waves or the Noble Harp. The Fox Jewel is probably the best, but I dislike how much good stuff is behind the Kitsune content so I choose to rarely use those things.

Powers I use are Bolstering Dance, Soul Arrow, Allure, Song of Splendor, and Unbreakable

Party is Dancer Cait and Cultist Quin. I switch to Hexblade Cait and Hopknight Quin, and switch out Allure and Splendor to Discord and Sword Soul for tease immune things. I hear Azzy is good but she's a bimbo in most of my games.

Just wanted to add that if you want a really good tease armor but don't want to wait for bondage gear: the fishnet outfit you can get from Nelia (Is that her name? Goblin vendor) in Hawkthorne has the same stats, but trades armor for more evasion. And I think fishnets are sexier anyway, so I go with that. Once you get the quest from Nelia, you just need 3 spider silk (buyable from Viviane) and I think 2000 gold. Until then, I usually go with the witch's outfit that you find in the black forest, as it's free and has a good combination of sexiness and spellpower.

I run my charmers as a hybrid tease damage/support build. I usually have song of storms in, so that I can buff my other damage dealer up a bunch in the first round. As a bonus, the buff I give them ends up being multiplied by my leadership bonus, AND I can avoid bringing in any threat in the first round.

I sometimes trade out bolstering dance for song of courage. The consistent healing is pretty nice, but since I don't always run with a tank having a frontloading of threat in the first round can get pretty spicy as a squishy. Dischord is also a really useful power when in areas that have tease immunity.

Also people were talking about tease vs pheromone: As far as I know it's purely dependent on the enemy. Some are more vulnerable to tease, some more vulnerable to pheromones.

 

[Verro]

Do you mean that you kick her into the corrupted honey pool?
I'm not sure if you know, but Azzy has an alternate set that transforms her into bimbo, so if you want her to have that personality and have her as a companion, it's possible. That set of her is more optimal for tease-oriented party anyway AFAIK.

BTW those are really great knowledge dumps about tease builds, thank you!

Yeah I kick her into the corrupted honey pool. Most of my Champs are sitting at 99-100 corruption. So in most games Azzy is a honey bimbo and the mare village is left corrupted.

 

[Baggrin]

So in most games Azzy is a honey bimbo and the mare village is left corrupted.

Funny, I've never thought about this before, but it looks like the A Teatime For Dragons quest might be softlocked (if you refused to visit Evelyn's room AND kicked Azyrran with Liaden into the corrupted honey pool)...

 

[Verro]

Funny, I've never thought about this before, but it looks like the A Teatime For Dragons quest might be softlocked (if you refused to visit Evelyn's room AND kicked Azyrran with Liaden into the corrupted honey pool)...

It 100% is.

And if you kick Azzy and Liaden into the pool, and close the door on Eve when you first meet her, you hardlock it to my knowledge.

 

[TalRasha]

Quick primer: Skills (Powers) that scale with attributes are color coded.

Red = Attack power (Strength + Equipment + Buffs)
Blue = Spell power (Willpower + etc...)
Pink/Purple = Sexiness + Libido (Presence + etc...)
Green = Toughness
Orange = Cunning

IRRC [Aria of Waves] and [Grand Finale] are both Charmer powers that scale off Spellpower.

Source: link to the Powers page on the wiki



The first question you should ask is what role do you want your champion to have?
DPS? Tank? Support?
Trying to fill too many shoes will just mean you end up being mediocre in all of them.

It sounds like you want to make your champion a damage dealer with an inclination towards either tease attacks and/or spells.

Let's examine some pros and cons...

Scenario 1 - "Lust attacks"

Pros:

There are a lot of horny enemies and boy are they thirsty. Their [FOCUS] stat, basically armor vs lust AND resistances to tease/pheromone/drug/psychic damage are quite low. Some bosses have resistances in the negatives meaning they can end up taking an extra +50/75% extra damage. Also take into account those same enemies may have both high armor and high resistance to physical damage.

The Minotaur Miners in the Undermountain are a good example. They are very bulky against penetrating (physical) damage but being Beastkin (Centaurs/Lupines/Minotaurs) they have a -75% weakness to Blight (aka Dark element) and Pheromone (Lust).

Source: Link to the Taxonomy page on the wiki

A team composed of Sun Dancer Cait/Honey Maiden Azzyran/Ex-cultist Quintillus and a Charmer champ can AoE Tease entire groups into "Jizz in my pants" stupor within the first or second round of combat even on Dark Difficulty.

Cons:

And this is a pretty big one so pay attention... there are also plenty of enemies who are also completely immune to tease/pheromone/drug/psychic damage.

Animals/Elementals/Golems/Ghosts come to mind.

Big tits? Fogettaboutit! Milkshakes aren't bringing them to the yard.
Big cocks? Not hungry for schnnausages.
Asses tight enough to bounce a quarter off of? It just doesn't do anything for them.

Note some of these sexless enemies (Undead/Constructs) are also highly resistant or immune to physical damage. Hope you brought some magic damage or [Leananstones] as backup.

Scenario 2 - "Spell damage"

Pros:

Always use the [Sense] command to figure out the stats of your enemies. Learn their weaknesses... what elements they're weak to... what nicknames will do the most emotional damage.

Demons universally resist Blight & Fire damage but have a crippling weakness to Holy damage, often +50/100% extra damage.
Currently very few enemies resist Storm and Holy damage.

Cons:

Certain areas will shutdown some elements.
Frost damage isn't going to do you much good in the Glacial Rift zone.
Fire is a terrible choice for exploring in the Undermountain.
Maybe don't use Blight damage against Demons... and a certain dastardly Red Rogue.

Scenario 3 - "Hybrid"

Run a Tease focused composition. However keep some weapon oils like [Naptha] or [Blood Iris] to buff yourself or your team in combat to deal (minor) magic damage in melee.

Alternately keep some spells on your spellbar and a change of clothes.
(You can change equipment from the item menu without any penalties beyond the extra inventory space it takes)... but remember to politely ask your opponents to wait. You need a pause in order to slip out of your BDSM getup complete with red ball gag & zippered leather crotch, so you can shimmy into a comfy, voluminous wizard robe. So Poofy!

Or just run away from bad matchups...

So i can just build a mage around Storm and Holy damage and/or sell PC's ass for [Sunstrike] spell (which is scaling from almost all attributes) and facerolling all fights?

 

[A1teros]

So i can just build a mage around Storm and Holy damage and/or sell PC's ass for [Sunstrike] spell (which is scaling from almost all attributes) and facerolling all fights?

I run a Charge Weapon + Power Wave Black mage spellblade which is very similar to Celestial Form + Sunstrike and the only boss I've truly had trouble with was the Faceless Blade because she's got JUST enough durability and definitely enough attack power to kill you before you kill her. I haven't actually lost that fight since switching to this though. Hypothetically, she could target me with every single attack and crit but since using this build it just has not happened even if it hypothetically could. The build is basically a tweaked version of Spirit Totem Arona and Hexblade Cait and it does fantastic.

 

[A1teros]

snip

Oh, and Whisper 2 if I don't use the turn order to immediately delete the real one.

 

[TalRasha]

Ok, any good builds for Thiefs, pls?

 

[TalRasha]

Ok, any good Charmer builds?